Faith And The Coming Election

Rick Green 0:07

It's the Intersection of Faith and Culture, the WallBuilder show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Let's look at all three of those perspectives for the election coming up. And today, specifically a biblical perspective for our role as Christians. Should we vote? How, you know, how do we vote? What guides us in these kind of decisions? We'll be uh taking a very close look at that. Uh, David Barton, Tim Barton, I'm Rick Green, all three of us you can find at wallbuilders.Show for more radio programs and wallbuilders.com for everything else, including that one time, our monthly contribution. Thanks to all of you that are doing that. Helps us reach more people, keeps us on the air, uh, not just through the election, but well past the election. We've got a lot of work to do in this country to rebuild, and that's what WallBuilders is

Pastors Waking Up Across America

Rick Green 0:50

all about. Uh, guys, of course, our recurring theme, right? We've been talking a lot for the last few weeks about the election and duty and the responsibility to vote. I I have been thrilled at the number of pastors that I have seen and and people online that have not been engaged in the past that are saying this time I'm engaged. I wouldn't expect that any midterm, but that is uh certainly a positive sign. What do you guys think?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Yeah, it's definitely a positive sign. Uh and I've got to say, just you know, perspective, we talked yesterday and and just even last week about how much on the road. So in the last 24 hours, uh I've been in Fort Lauderdale, Florida doing pastors' conferences. I've been in Atlanta, Georgia doing pastors' conferences, and been in uh Indianapolis, Indiana doing pastors' conferences in the last 24 hours. So all over the place, those are all three very different areas from each other. We're seeing pastors definitely engaged. As a matter of fact, uh just just left a meeting with the lieutenant governor of Indiana, who is a pastor, amazingly. And so not only are we seeing Christians engaged, we're actually seeing them in office now. And this is something that, man, I uh would have been great if we'd seen 15 years ago, but it's happening now, and I think that's really good. There's that for us, we're we're after we get done with meetings uh for the rest of the week, we're pretty much on the road doing, I I think we're going to Ohio, um, we're going to Pennsylvania, we're going to several other states. So there's activity out there for sure, and there's interest out there for sure, and there's an enthusiasm that is very palpable. We'll see if that's going to be enough to get us over over the hump on this thing, but this is something that I haven't seen in previous years to the degree we're seeing right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

But Dad, one of the things I I think is so valuable too is not just that we're having pastors that are now speaking out on the issues, as you mentioned, even uh with Micah Beckworth, who's a pastor uh who is a high-level government official there in Indiana. Not only is it great to see pastors getting involved, but I think a lot of what we're seeing is that pastors are waking up for the longer term. They're not waking up in this election season moment. Yeah, I think they're recognizing that, man, there's some intentionality that we have to give to teaching

Discipleship On Government And Culture

SPEAKER_01 3:05

all of what the Bible teaches. And and we have overlooked some of the things. Obviously, it's easy to look and go, hey, the Bible speaks about marriage and family and gender and life. And a lot of churches haven't really taught on some of that, they haven't discipled on that. It's it's also easy to point out that if you look at the the institutions that God created, the family, the church, and government, and you recognize that no pastor generally speaking is gonna deny that the Bible gives guidance for families or the Bible gives guidance on what a church should be. But there's even more the Bible says about government and to government officials than it does to church or to the family. And so I think one of the encouraging things is we're seeing what I think is ultimately gonna be a movement, not just of pastors that are gonna speak to issues in an election season or cycle, but that recognize we need to be far more intentional and engaging in culture. And guys, one of the things that I think is also really great in a minute, we're gonna have Dr. Trippy on from uh AFPI, America First College Institute. One of the things that's so encouraging is that some of these big political organizational think tanks like an AFPI, you can look at uh we can say many of them. In fact, even for that matter, we can highlight uh what President Trump has done with the faith office, um, and the fact that there's a a person representing the faith office in all of the cabinets in these major departments. There's been an intentionality to elevate the restoration of faith and specifically Christianity in so many things. And the reason that to me, I'm so encouraged with all the things we're doing right now, beyond whatever happened to this election, and we've talked about it many times. I think it's actually gonna be better than than what we had initially feared. Uh and I say we, what pundits had been saying, uh, that it's gonna be this massive blue wave. I don't think it's gonna be a massive blue wave at all. It's possible Democrats might pick up a couple house seats. I don't think they win the Senate, but ultimately I think it's a really good chance Republicans keep the House and the Senate. With that being said, what's so encouraging is seeing the restoration of faith where the founding fathers said that this American experiment only works with religion and morality. And when they say religion and morality, they're talking about Christianity in the Bible. America only works with that foundation, and the fact that we now have more pastors waking up to recognize we need to disciple our people on how to apply the Bible, how to live out their faith as Christians in the culture around us, and then you're seeing even from political institutions like AFPI, America First Policy Institute, the reason uh Dr. Trippy's coming on, he he represents and leads their faith wing. So even these political organizations are now recognizing that one of the necessities to restore things in America, to make America great again, you have to do it with a biblical foundation by having faith once again as a core pillar that America and freedom is built on. So, again, overall, I am so encouraged that as you're saying, not just that we're having pastors Show up in these moments leading up to an election, but I think these pastors that are showing up are gonna end up end up being here for the long term, and they're gonna start being far more intentional about their discipling their people on what the Bible says in culture and how to navigate culture as a Christian. So I am very excited for the long term.

How To Share And Find The Show

Rick Green 6:31

Man, Tim, I think you hit on something so critical for the future, way beyond the election, and that is the infrastructure to equip these pastors and to come alongside of them, all of these organizations, like you said, there's just been uh so much effort put into this that it that that it does bode well for having a much stronger foundation in the pulpit itself than training the the you know the people in the in the pews as well. So, man, uh and a lot of times, like you said, organizations we wouldn't have typically thought they would have a faith department. And uh and this is one of them, American First Uh Policy, uh great organization out of DC, doing a lot on education and and a lot of other areas that we worked with them on. But it's so cool for them to have specifically uh an area that's dealing specifically with faith engagement. And Dr. Daniel Trippia, uh pastor himself, is the one that heads that up. He'll be with us when we come back from the break. Stay with us. You're listening to the WallBuilder show. Hey friends, Rick Green for the WallBuilder show. Encouraging you to share the program with friends and family and listen to it on the podcasts that are out there. There's so many options out there for you to listen to in the car or from home or while you're working out. You've got Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, Castbox. I mean, there's so many options, and we just want to make sure you know we've worked hard to get it out there and make it available for you on all those different apps. Everybody's got their favorite app, so choose your particular app. And if it's not on there yet, email us, radio at wallbuilders.com, and let us know about your favorite podcast app. We'll make sure WallBulder's radio is listed there. But you can listen and most importantly, share it with your friends and family. That's how the program grows. That's how we get more truth in the hands of as many people as possible. And then, of course, wallbuilders.Show, super easy place uh to find all of those podcast apps and to just download right there from that website as well as be able to share it with your friends and family. So check it out today, wobblers.Show, or just go directly to your favorite podcast app, listen to the Wabbuilder show, and share it with as many people as you possibly can.

Genesis Dominion And Voting As Stewardship

Rick Green 8:23

Welcome back to the Wabboulder show. Thanks for staying with us. Dr. Daniel Trippy with us from America First Policy Institute. Dr. Trippie, thanks for joining us today, sir.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Thank you, Rick. It's a pleasure to be here.

Rick Green 8:33

Well, you write about it, you talk about it. Uh we we all know that it's needed, but you have a theological approach to why we should vote. I keep seeing all these people saying, uh, if you vote, it's not going to count anyway, it doesn't matter. Or, you know, I'm a Christian, I don't get involved in that politics thing. It's nasty over there. All kinds of excuses. The candidates, you know, they're not holy and righteous and perfect. So, you know, let's stay home if Jesus Christ is not on the ballot. Okay, I'm teeing it up for you, obviously. Exactly. But it's a critical time, man. And and we do. We hear those kind of excuses from Christians all the time. What do you say to them?

SPEAKER_03 9:04

Yeah, I say I hear those same things too, Rick. But here's here's the reality, right? Genesis chapter one tells us that we have been given dominion. We are to represent God on this earth. And in a representative republic, how do we do that? We do that through voting. You know, the idea of representation, it didn't come from the enlightenment, it came from scripture. God created us in his image so that we would take what's good, beautiful, and true to the ends of the earth. So, in a representative republic like we live in, this is a stewardship issue. We get to steward uh our vote. So, you know, I hear the same things that you're hearing, right? Uh, you know, I don't like the candidates. Well, guess what? Look, I'm not I'm not voting for a small group leader, and I'm also not voting for a pastor. What I'm voting for is somebody that most aligns with the principles of Genesis 1 and 2, the creation ordinances. And you've got to remember when you're voting, all right, you're voting not just for a person, but for policies and for a platform and for appointees. You know, so much happens uh with the appointees that a candidate is is putting into office. So, you know, it's it's it's important. I get it, you may not love everything about every candidate, but this is an imperfect world. And in an imperfect world, uh voting is an imperfect system, but it's the best system known to man.

Rick Green 10:25

Yeah, it's the old James Madison thing, right? We have the worst form of government other than every other one. Exactly. And uh and sometimes you have to say, you know, I got to vote for this person, they're the worst other than the other one. That's on the ballot, you know. Yeah, we do get this perfectionist mindset where we think uh the candidate can't have any flaws or any scandals or anything, or or else we're gonna go for the other person. One of our friends, Chad Codley, was on last week and he said, uh, he's I have to I have to give him a credit a few more times before I steal this. But he said, he said, some of these people are like, well, I don't like Diet Coke, so I'm gonna drink liquid Draino. And I thought, wow, Chad, you just gave me the perfect metaphor because it's almost that bad. I mean, some people are literally gonna shun, let's just say, a Republican candidate because of some scandal in their life or whatever, for communism. They're gonna choose literally communism that would ultimately destroy our freedom of religion. Um, and and I just don't understand the logic there. How what do you say to people like that that are just I'm checking out of the process because there's not a perfect candidate?

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Yeah, well, when you're gonna check out of the process, someone else is gonna fill it in. And that other person won't be more, it's not gonna be morally neutral. I mean, look, if Christian 37% of evangelical Christians stay home, and in some states, it's more than that, it's over 40%. But here's what's happening: then there's no voice for the unborn. There's no voice for religious freedom, there's no voice for your church. And look, you saw what happened in COVID, right? When the church pulled back and there was no voice, right? You saw what happened. I was pastoring in New York during that time, and let me tell you, uh there was definitely a voice that was going to uh stand up and be heard, and it kept the church silent. So, you know, I I understand where people they say those types of things, but let's think about that logically. Everybody's bringing their beliefs into the public square, and if we vacate that public square, what fills the vacuum is not going to be neutral.

Rick Green 12:14

Amen. Amen. And that's the that's the thing. It's not it's not like you're being righteous by vacating

Why Checking Out Is Not Neutral

Rick Green 12:20

or by not participating. I I've heard a couple of people tell me, and this includes some pastors, that said, uh, I have to answer to God for my vote, and so I'm not going to vote for this person because of whatever. And I'm thinking, well, that's exactly right. You're going to answer to God for that vote, and just like you answer to God for every dollar you spend and that sort of thing. Um it's it you said it at the very beginning, it's being good stewards and and as is being a good steward literally burying the talent and being the wicked and slothful servant, or is being a good steward, do it being doing the best that you can with whatever the situation is, even if it's not a perfect choice, it it truly is less bad. And I I hate saying less for two evils, and I've said it my whole life. Um, but you know, you're gonna vote for the lesser two evils unless Jesus is on the ballot. I I I know I know there's a better way to say it. I've tried to remember what Nate Shatzlein said to me a couple weeks ago, but uh it it is though the lesser of flawed jars of clay. Like I don't know what's the best way to say that. How would you describe that to someone that they're not perfect, but it is better and therefore better policy. Even if it's just incrementally better, which I think it's massive contrast this time around, but even if it was just incrementally better than the other choice for the team, like you said, they're bringing all these people in. I mean, it's still better. I mean, aren't we aren't we supposed to do better?

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Yeah, in a in an imperfect world, right? We're in a fallen and imperfect world. The kingdom is not is here, but not fully here. So until then, right, we can't let we cannot let perfect be the Enemy of the good. That's so look every time you've tried to see a government that is focused on perfection, you get tyranny, right? That's what we see the communists do, that's what we've seen around the world with totalitarian regimes. We're gonna bring about perfection. Well, that always comes at a cost, you know. And Rick, I hear people telling me this too. Well, you know what? God's in control, God's sovereign. Well, of course, God is sovereign, but he uses means, right? That's why we pray, that's why we preach the gospel, that's why we send missionaries. And the means that he uses is us, all of God's people. So it's important that we get out there and we exercise this stewardship, this uh mandate of Genesis chapter one. And look at uh what's on the ballot right now, faith is on the ballot. When you look at the creation ordinance principles, things like human life, the the uh difference between male and female, an ordered society, right? Private property, work, all of these things are found in Genesis one and two. And there's one side that is accommodating to those, and there's another side that's actually hostile and I would say aggressive to deconstruct those. So this is why it is so important that people of faith have a theology of voting, but then a praxis. Get out and vote, talk to people, bring your small group, bring your Sunday school class, go knock a door and bring your neighbor, make sure your family. I was just talking to somebody last week in Ohio, and they just assumed that all of their kids were registered to vote. And she found out, wow, my my two sons were

Perfect Versus Good In Politics

SPEAKER_03 15:09

not registered to vote. She got them registered and took them out to the poll.

Rick Green 15:12

I love it. I love it. Um, I want to combine two of the things you've mentioned so far. Because I think I've made the mistake in the past of saying we're not partisan, you know, and um, you know, we we've tried to shy away from that, I think, so much as a church or whatever. But one of the things you said earlier was, you know, in in this government we're in, I can't remember exactly how you said it, but basically we're not the Roman Empire. So Caesar is not, you know, we we don't have a dictator or any of that. We we we are the in charge, we the people. And and then the team thing that you talked about, all the appointments and everything, it is a team sport. And so instead of shying away from parties, should we highlight more uh the the partisan nature of our system, it just is. And we've made that a bad word, but it is what we have. It's a party system. And so uh, you know, educating people on the difference in the parties and recognizing that that who has the majority in Congress or even in your state legislature, it really matters. And so even if your local, you know, Republican candidate is less than stellar, but your Democrat candidate is going to vote for, you know, Hakeem Jeffries as as speaker of the house or Chuck Schumer as Senate majority leader, those that has huge ramifications for all those biblical principles that that you just talked about. That's a really long question. I'm sorry for filibustering, but I I think you get the essence of what I'm saying. It's like, should we should we talk about party more instead of leaving that we I and I've been guilty of it. Instead of just saying vote biblical principles, should we say, hey, this party is advocating for those biblical principles better than this party over here?

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Well, I think we can look at the platforms, right? Put the two platforms next to each other, and then they're gonna have to caucus somewhere. So your local uh person is gonna have to caucus somewhere, and then you look at the two platforms and go, you know, am I going to be okay with my candidate caucusing with the idea of mutilation of children? Are we gonna be

Party Platforms And What They Normalize

SPEAKER_03 16:58

okay with saying, hey, you know what? We think we should seize the means of production. Uh, are we gonna be okay with, you know what, the church should actually uh answer to the state about what they preach in their pulpit. So I when I look at the two party platforms um and I think I lay them out next to one another, you see very clearly that, you know, these things become self-evident and reasonable people can look at the they can look at the scriptures and then they can look at the platforms and you know, again, not gonna be perfect, I get it. Uh, but what is most uh conducive to what we see in the scripture and who I like to say this, who's accommodating, you know, because one side has said, you know what, we don't want people of faith, or at least a certain kind of faith, right? If you if it, you know. So if you um you know wrap yourself up as a a a liberal uh theologian, right, and you deny the resurrection of Christ, if you deny that uh God is you know not 72 genders or whatever, if you do right, yeah, no, it's true. You know, you know, you you're welcome on on one side, except for what I'm gonna say is uh theologically you've got some issues there. You're gonna have to square that. And um, so yeah, I look at the two party platforms and I say, which one is most consistent with what I see in Genesis 1 and 2 and then throughout the the scriptures.

Rick Green 18:13

Yeah, yeah, man. It's it's not, you know, and I and I would uh I would close with this, you know, it's not optional, right? I mean, this is not just a hey, be a good citizen if you want to be a good citizen. Jesus said, occupied till I return. He he gives all kinds of commands on on praying wherever you're planted. I mean, we go back to Daniel and you know, where no, no matter where they were in the Bible, uh, they didn't shy away from speaking to leaders or being the leaders, right? Being a part of that um that that nation where you're where you've been blessed to live and and to to sit on the sideline is basically saying, Well, Lord, thanks for the freedom, but you know, I'm not gonna do anything with it. Uh I I don't want to answer for that way.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

Yeah, you know, Rick, I, you know, when you every time you think about uh we make the proclamation, Jesus is Lord, right? That's a political statement. Every time we say, love your neighbor is yourself, that's a political statement. So people who say, Well, I don't want to get political. Well, I don't know how you preach the gospel message and not be political. Politics is simply about how we live together in community, and the Bible commands us to love our neighbor. So look, if I see my neighbor drinking poison, I'm gonna say, Hey, no, don't. That's why we put labels on poison, right? Don't drink that, right? When I see my neighbor gonna do something that vote in a certain direction that's going to undermine human flourishing, you know, I'm gonna speak up and say something about that.

Rick Green 19:27

Yeah. Yeah, man. I knew I was gonna enjoy this with with you. I didn't realize we were gonna be so um in sync and and ruin the same. Because what you just said, I I don't like it when people say it it's it's not political, it's spiritual, because I think it, I think being political requires you to be spiritual. It is politics, it's just how you treat your neighbor. I've said that for years. It's literally every law I ever voted on as a legislator in the old days was gonna determine how I was treating my neighbor or how they could treat me legally. Um, I love what you just said. I think that is absolutely the attitude that we've that we've got to uh take. Dr. Daniel Trippi, just proof that you could be a pastor in New York and still be biblical. Hey, man, thanks for coming on today.

Loving Your Neighbor Gets Political

Rick Green 20:07

Oh, hey, wait, but before before you sign off, tell folks about AFPI and and what you're doing there and and how they can get involved. I I should have mentioned that from the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Sure, yeah. So I serve as director of faith engagement with America First Policy Institute. I lead the Biblical Foundations initiative. Uh, if you want to learn more, go to AFPIFaith.com. There you're gonna find resources, you're gonna find uh curriculums. We're helping to uh resource and support churches and pastors to get engaged in the public square. So if there's ways that we can help you, uh go to afpifaith.com. We're trying to educate, resource so that the church can occupy that public square with confidence and a compelling public witness.

Rick Green 20:46

I love it. I love it, man. Well, let's get you back soon. I really, really enjoyed

AFPI Resources For Churches

Rick Green 20:50

this. Look forward to the next time.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Anytime, Rick. Thank you.

Rick Green 20:53

Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Okay, we want to let you know about a new product we have here at WallBuilders called Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honor, the Signers of the Declaration. Like most Americans, you might be someone that you recognize some of the names of the Founding Fathers, but do you know their story? We want to help remedy that. My Dad and I have written biographies on all 56 signers of the Declaration to help reintroduce people to the men who literally sign their names on the line for the sake of the nation. When they did this, they knew that they were essentially signing their death warrants. They were risking everything for the hope that they might be able to purchase freedom for the rising generation with their lives, their fortunes, and sacred honors. In spite of the hardship that every one of them endured, none of them recander backed away. Now, if you don't know their story, you can get to know all 56 of them. Go to wallbuilders.com and look for the book Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honors the signers of the Declaration.

Why AFPI Partners With Pastors

Rick Green 22:02

Welcome back to the WallBuilder show. Thanks to Dr. Daniel Trippy for coming on with us. Thanks to America First Policy Institute and their faith engagement office and uh and what they're doing. And of course, guys, man, it was I the first time I had ever interviewed Dr. Trippy. I mean, I I knew he'd be somewhat on the same page, but sometimes you just don't know. And it sounded like uh a lot of things he said, man, right in line with what we say here on WallBuilders, right, Tim?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

There's no doubt. And I do want to say um to Dr. Trippy and all of AFPI, they they've been such good friends for us at WallBuilders. Uh, when we do pastors briefings in DC, um, twice we have we have had rooms reserved, which uh we often will have friends that are in Congress or the Senate. They're just incredible friends that are up there. And usually you have to have a congressional sponsor uh that reserves a room for you. So we can take these pastors and and host these briefings where these congressmen and senators will come in and encourage these pastors. And twice in the I once, I guess actually this year and once last year, we had a moment where the room that was reserved uh got taken over. Uh, both of them, there were big things going on. Uh, one of them, I think there was like some bombs in Iran being dropped. You know, there were a few things going on. And so there was a Senate committee in this said, hey, we're actually gonna need that room. There was a few things that happened, but we already had 120 pastors that were coming in for this briefing, and we said, Man, what are we gonna do? And both times AFPI said, Guys, we would love for y'all to come. We have this incredible space, use our building. Dr. Trippy actually came over and spoke to the pastor. So, first of all, just so grateful um for AFPI partnering with us in some of those moments and Dr. Trippy being such a gracious host. All of that to say, Rick, yes, he is absolutely on our page. And I know that because uh he's come to two of our pastors' briefing and talked to the pastors. And so uh when when we were hearing about some of what they were doing, um, and and how again a political organization, this political institution, is trying to help pastors be more involved when uh as as we acknowledge, we usually think of political institutions as being very much politically oriented, but when even they are recognizing, hey, we have to have a faith foundation for America to survive, it's so encouraging and they've been incredible blessings for us. So really thank you, Dr. Trippy, and thank you, AFPI, for partnering with us these last couple of years

What’s At Stake If Power Shifts

SPEAKER_01 24:25

on some of these pastor briefings.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

You know, one of the things I I think that is Rick, we were talking earlier, Tim, about how we're seeing more activity leading up to this election. And I I I think that some of that is actually being rooted and grounded in a deeper sense of responsibility. And I think that responsibility also goes to with accountability. It seems like people are understanding that they have to participate in getting this nation well. I mean, it's kind of like watching your kids grow up. You have birthdays every year, and it's not that you see that much from year to year, but over the course of several years you see a lot of change. And I think people have have thought, well, my vote in this election is not going to matter, and it things are going. No, no, we're we're seeing change, and part of it is we're seeing change that's really threatening us. You know, we talked just earlier this week about the choice between Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi, and we're not there anymore. It's between Diet Coke and Draeno. And so I think a lot of people understand the urgency of what's here, and and I I don't know how we can express it. I I don't think people fully understand what might happen if if we do not keep the House and the Senate. What's going to happen in the way of prosecutions, what's going to happen in the way of impeachments, what's going to happen in the way of not domestic policy, but retaliation and punishment. And so we're at a point now where we're starting to see some really good things happen in the nation. Some things really become embedded. And so, you know, for Christian believers, I I hope they understand how important it is to vote and what's at stake in this election.

Rick Green 25:58

Yeah, David, it's no exaggeration to talk about the um weaponization of government again, all the things that will happen if the Democrats get control. They're already even signaling they want to take down Elon Musk. They literally want to defund him completely, take over his companies, turn them into, you know, government-controlled entities. That's from Robert Reich, as uh Rush Limbaugh used to call him,

Final Push To Vote Early

Rick Green 26:20

you know, that was the Department of Medellin secretary under uh Clinton. That's Department of Labor, if you go to the real title. But at any rate, they are signaling exactly what they're gonna do if they win. So what you said is 100% right. Folks, get out there and vote. We're gonna say it every day. And this is the last week of early voting. You only got a few days left. So make a count and go early vote. Don't wait until election day if you can. Go get it, get it get it done. Get it done this week. Thanks for listening. You've been listening to the Wobble show.