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The WallBuilders Show
Policy Over Personality - with Dr. Jim Garlow
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A “pastor” on the ballot sounds reassuring until you look at what they actually plan to do with power. Tim Barton sits down with Dr. Jim Garlow, calling in from Israel, to talk candidly about a growing political trend: clergy and ministry leaders running for office while promoting policies that contradict basic biblical teaching on life, marriage, and God’s design for men and women.
We start with a grounding question that cuts through slogans: what is the purpose of government? From there, we walk through why protecting the citizenry matters, why abortion is a direct violation of that duty, and why Christians cannot outsource discernment to a title, a denomination, or a polished media presence. We also dig into why “nice” candidates can still advance destructive ideas, and why voters must judge fruit and policy, not vibe.
Along the way, we discuss the widening biblical worldview gap inside American churches, how that shapes elections, and a clear rubric for Christian voters that begins with the right to life. If you care about biblical principles of government, faith and politics, and how to vote with a biblically informed conscience, this conversation will challenge and equip you.
Subscribe for more, share this with a friend who is torn between personality and policy, and leave a review so more people can find it. What’s the first issue you check before you support a candidate?
Welcome And The Growing Concern
Tim BartonWelcome to the WallBuilders Show. This is Tim Barton. You have reached the place where faith and culture, history, politics, the Bible, all of it intersects right here. And normally my Dad, David Barton, and Rick Green are with us. But today we have an opportunity to talk with a pastor who has been speaking out against some other pastors who are actually running for office but are not upholding biblical positions when they're running for office. It could be a guy like a James Talarico who is in seminary, who is very confused on what the Bible says about issues. Well, there's lots of things like that we want to get into and hear what a pastor has to say about these other pastors and what is the recommendation for Christians on how to navigate that. And we are now joined with a great family friend and guest, Dr. Jim Garlo, who currently is over in Israel. So our time zones are a bit different. But Dr. Garlo, after seeing the articles on social media, we all agreed, my dad, Rick, and I, that we needed to get you on to give the wisdom that was in print on social media, which those two things don't always go together, wisdom and social media. But you had some wisdom on social media encouraging Christians not to be deceived by titles, but maybe judge a tree by the fruit. So, first of all, thank you for being on with us today. So glad to have you.
Dr. Jim GarlowMy honor to be on with you. I love Tim and David Martin. You're the greatest.
Tim BartonWe are so grateful for you. We feel the same way about you. I don't want to uh spend any time on service level. I want to dive into this. Okay. So you wrote several things on social media where you are a pastor or minister, and you were giving guidance on how Christians should view some of these other identifying ministers and pastors that are running for office in America, actually in multiple places. Uh, and and maybe don't be deceived by their title. Can can you walk us through some of what you were wanting people to understand?
What Government Is For Biblically
Speaker 1Well, the first thing, we got to ask ourselves the question: what's the purpose of government? The purpose of government is to protect the citizenry, it's to reward good, it's to punish evil. So that's that's a starting point. Uh secondly, a number of years ago, and I don't remember who it was, I think it was Hillary Clinton, said, we can't allow these Republicans to be claiming they're the ones that are all religious. We've got to start talking and acting like we are. That sort of jarred my, jarred me when I heard that. But what we have now is 11 different people, all claiming to be pastors, one's a seminarian, uh, who are running for Congress, some for Senate, uh, some for House of Representatives. There's two others that are not up for re-election. So there's at least 13 pastors that I'm aware of that are either in or running for uh Congress right at the present time. And let's take a look at those.
When Pastors Promote Anti Biblical Policies
Speaker 1I'm going to Iowa. Iowa's the third congressional district. Her name is Sarah Tron Garriot, and she's ordained through the what's called the Evangelical Lutheran Church, which I would contend is not really truly evangelical, as I understand the word, and I don't think it's all that Lutheran. And sometimes I wonder if it's a church. Why? Is because it violates the first purpose of government is to protect the citizenry, and she is an advocate of abortion. You can't kill off your babies in your congressional district and think you're protecting the citizenry. On top of that, God establishes a pattern in Genesis 1 and 2 and then 4. He declares the first thing about us that we're male and female, the second thing is marriage, man and a woman, the third thing is procreation. Now we're up to Genesis 4. Now, what happens is the enemy's gone in reverse order and taken on abortion, the procreation first, the production of babies, and killed them in abortion. And then the enemy went next to the destruction of the definition of marriage, and then all the way back to Genesis 1, male and female, he created them, and so we no longer have gender specificity. So this particular candidate I mentioned to, her name is Sarah Trone Garriott, Iowa's third district, she is in complete violation of all of that. That's just for starters. We could go to other things, but in the congressional district, also in Iowa, the second district, Lindsay James. Now she's ordained through the Presbyterian Church USA. I'm a graduate of one of the Presbyterian seminaries myself, and I'm well aware how far off track biblically and spiritually is that entire denomination. So much so they're so anti-Semitic. They actually removed the word Israel from their hymnals not too many years ago. And supporting abortion, transgender, and same-sex marriage. Then we go to Arkansas's third congressional district, and not a well-known pastor at all. His name is Rob Ibreck, I think it's pronounced Ryers, and he's running. He has a little very little chance of winning. Now, the two in Iowa, I think they do. The guy in Arkansas has little chance of winning, but nonetheless, here's a guy claiming to be a pastor who's in violation of everything scripturally. Let's go to Tennessee's third congressional district, Anita Galladay, Anna Galladay. Once again, she's running as a Methodist, ordained Methodist pastor, stands against all these biblical things I just outlined a moment ago. And I in her case, I don't think there's much chance of her being elected, but I don't know for certain on that one. Now, if we go to Dallas area, Freddie Hayes III, he's from the what's called the Progressive National Baptist denomination, they leave it optional, that denomination, for each local congregation to decide whether they want to support marriage, being one man, one woman, or however they want to define it. That tells you there the problem with the entire denomination. He's a shoe-in to get it. He's running in Jasmine Crockett's former district. A guy who's not up for election is Emmanuel Cleaver, Methodist, Kansas City area on the Missouri side, Missouri's 5th Congressional District. He's not up for re-election, but he affirms all the wrong things as well. Then there's Raphael Warnack in Georgia, and he is up for election and once again violates all the standard biblical principles. Let's take another one who's not up for election. That's James Langford of Oklahoma, pastor, stands on the right side of all the issues biblically, stands rock solid. He has a stellar performance scripturally. Now he's not up for re-election right now, but I just want you to know the two I'm mentioning that are in Congress already that are not up for election. John Ellison is assembly, I believe he's assemblies of God pastor in the Chicago area, and he's running a really tough uphill battle in that particular district, Illinois 9th Congressional District. It'll be a tough one to win, but he's a rock star and of a pastor in terms of biblical authority, understands and respects the Word of God. It'd be great to see him win that one. A couple other guys, Mark Harris is uh from North Carolina, the 8th Congressional District. Again, a rock solid Baptist pastor. He's already in office, he's running as an incumbent, he's strong as it gets. Uh Tim Wahlberg, he's from Michigan's 5th district. And he's another one who's rock solid biblically. Got some really good ones. Now that leaves us two that are really strange and interesting ducks. We're
The Alarm Over Talarico And Hamilton
Speaker 1coming to Texas and Kansas, the senatorial district, and all the oxygen gets sucked out of the room by James Tallerico. Everybody focuses on him. Uh it's absolutely staggering to me as a guy who lived in Texas for a number of years, and of course, Tim, you've been there forever, that he could possibly be polling as high as he is. He is so ludicrous in his views. I won't even list them right now unless we want to come back to them, but he's off on virtually every issue you can think of. And I I I I would think in Texas or in America at large, five or ten years ago, a candidate like that would have been left off the stage. To think that he's even polling well is a commentary not on him, but upon America's spiritual overtones right now. And then we go to Adam Hamilton. He's running for Senate in Kansas. This is an interesting one to me. I'm a native of Kansas and lived there for many years, but I love my home state of Kansas. He pastures the largest Methodist church in the United States, 24,000 members. He is a a dangerous candidate. Uh he's run he says he was a Republican, then he was gonna run as an independent, but he ran as a Democrat, is running as a Democrat. He's pulling very, very high. He is he is the man who was responsible for splitting let me rephrase that. He was one of the persons who helped in the great divide in the Methodist Church, and he chose to identify supporting same-sex marriage, abortion, transgenderism. His Methodist church called Church of the Resurrection in Kansas City, Kansas area, supports the Pride Parade with all of its vulgarity. He supports uh drag queen shows. It gets that's about as bad as it can get. But then he helped was a part of the of the denominational split. Frankly it's good that it took place, in the sense that seven thousand six hundred congregations, not seven thousand six hundred persons, but seven thousand six hundred congregations were essentially by conscience, by biblical conscience, forced out of their denomination. He was a part of that massive split. And when he didn't get his way at first to affirm same-sex marriage in the general conference in his denomination, I believe it was in 2012, he came back and told the congregation that he would go against what his denominational policy was. The book of the book of discipline in the uh the polity for the United Methodist Church at that time uh said that marriage was one man, one woman. And he said he was going to defy that openly. And uh, I suppose that he in fact did. I'm aware he went to same-sex marriages and told people with the cameras to keep the cameras off of him. Uh the stories are replete in terms of what he did. That denomination, I care about it because I'm a graduate of four institutions which um all come from the Methodist or from the Wesleyan theological persuasion. And the United Methodist Church, which was originally before that called Methodist Episcopal, before that was just a Methodist movement under John Wesley in the 1700s, was one of the greatest moves of God ever in history. The examples of the power of God being released and people transformed and repenting of sin and walking into a lives of holiness and sanctification is is one of the greatest stories ever written in all of church history. But by the nineteen forties, for sure, the Methodist Church was headed in the wrong directions, and it got more and more so till finally it came to the point where the denomination has had a split. It's not a split of a church, it's where the Orthodox biblical people were essentially by good conscience forced out of the apostate denomination. And what did those congregations have to do that were forced out? They had to turn around and buy their buildings a second time. They'd already paid for them once in their tithes and offerings every Sunday, but the denominational polity is that what's called the trust clause, is that property belongs to the denomination. Rather, the denomination have the integrity to say, hey, we changed, we left biblical truth, so you ought to at least get your building. They were ruthless to many of them, and they've they've had battles and court battles. And in fact, in Dallas, as of the last few days, the Highland Park Methodist Church, one of the most prestigious churches, 15,000 members in the movement, has announced it's trying to leave, and the bishop is suing them to make sure they can't have their building that would be worth many tens of millions of dollars on the Southern Methodist University campus. There's 37 local congregations trying to get out right now in Maryland. There's 70 local congregations trying to get out in South Carolina. There have been so many that said, well, don't try to get out now. You later we'll work with you. And then they tried to get out and they said, Oh, the date has passed. Sorry, you missed it, you can't leave. And Adam's not responsible for this. Adam Hamble is not responsible for this. Singularly, obviously, this involved many people who've gone apostate, but he's one of the most influential men in the denomination. Now, why do I focus there? Because the man has an enormous following, a staggering following. It's almost cult-like. Um, and he is very winsome, very affable. He is slick tongued. And I'm telling you, if he gets in office, he not only will represent all the wrong things, but unfortunately the media will love talking to him.
unknownYeah.
Quick Break And How To Listen
Tim BartonSo, Jim, I want to take a quick break. Um, when we come back, I want to get into this because you see people like him, as you're mentioning, like a James Talerico, that a lot of presumably Bible-believing Christians are going, Well, this guy's really nice. And, you know, sometimes like Donald Trump's not a nice guy. This guy's nice. I'm gonna vote for this guy. And you have people that presumably are Bible-believing Christians that are being swayed to vote for a very ungodly and arguably a very uh pro-heresy candidate. Anyway, we'll come to that after the break. We'll be back in just a moment here on the Wild Blooter Show.
Rick GreenHey friends, Rick Green from the Wild Buller Show, encouraging you to share the program with friends and family and listen to it on the podcasts that are out there. There's so many options out there for you to listen to in the car or from home or while you're working them. You've got Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, Caskbox. I mean, there's so many options, and we just want to make sure you know we've worked hard to get it out there and make it available for you on all those different apps. Everybody's got their favorite app, so choose your particular app. And if it's not on there yet, email us, radio at wallbuilders.com, and let us know about your favorite podcast app, and we'll make sure Wobblers Radio is listed there. But you can listen and most importantly, share it with your friends and family. That's how the program grows, that's how we get more truth in the hands of as many people as possible. And then, of course, wallbuilders.show, super easy place uh to find all of those podcast apps and to just download right there from that website as well as be able to share it with your friends and family. So check it out today, wobblers.show, or just go directly to your favorite podcast app, listen to the wobbler show and share it with as many people as you possibly can.
Tim BartonWelcome back
Niceness Versus Godliness At The Ballot
Tim Bartonto the WallBuilders Show. This is Tim Barton, and I am here with Dr. Jim Garlo. We've been talking about uh a little bit of an anomaly, a lot of pastors um that are actually running for Congress, that there's actually some already in Congress. And and Dr. Garlow, some of that is great to see pastors engaging in politics a little bit like a a John Peter, Gabriel Muhlenberg or Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg people that are are running for office to uphold biblical integrity, recognizing they are citizens of heaven, but also they are citizens here on this earth. But then there's a contrast that there are some pastors that are running that are absolutely rejecting biblical truth, that are rejecting biblical standards, but they they come across as being really nice, great people. And there's a lot of Christians that I think are looking at these candidates and they're equating godliness with niceness. They're saying, Well, this guy's really nice, therefore he must be really godly. And and I think we've confused the personality of the individual with the policies that they would promote, that even though somebody might seem like a nice person, if you're promoting ungodly policies that not only will will not get you God's blessing but bring God's judgment, then that's not the candidate you want. But Dr. Garlo, so many people seem to be drawn into some of these identifying Christian pastors that are rejecting biblical truth. What is your analysis of that? And then maybe what's your recommendation for people? Maybe if they're thinking of voting for some of these guys who are not biblical, what would you say to them? But but maybe more so, what would you say to people that they can help encourage their friends to say, guys, it it doesn't matter how nice this person appears to be, we have to evaluate the policies. How would you encourage people to navigate that conversation with their friends?
Speaker 1Well, the issue is always what does God say? What does God's word say? That's our anchor for all of us. If anybody is a follower of Jesus or even claims remotely to be a follower of Jesus, or if they claim to affirm uh Judeo-Christian values, if they acclaim any of those things, you can't possibly, in good conscience, vote for someone who's who represents that which is in violation to the most foundational things of the Word of God. Now you recommend you you re referenced a moment ago uh Trump. And sometimes Trump says some things he shouldn't, and sometimes he does some things he shouldn't. I I go to his policy. Now, I I wish he wouldn't say certain things, I admit that, or do certain things, but I looked at his policy. For example, we spent I I wrote a book, co-authored a book, on analyzing two or 200 of his executive orders. To what extent were they biblical? The book is called The Executive Orders of President of Donald J. Trump A Biblical Perspective. And we analyzed those in the light of scripture. And he came through with flying colors. It was amazing. The policy is where it's going to trickle down and impact the future of America. And if you love your children and your grandchildren, you can't possibly support a party that supports Islamism, supports Islamic support, and and and socialism. That'll be destructive, like we see in France right now. That's America in ten years or less, or less if we go the route that they have gone. Hamilton, in the case of an Adam Hamilton, let's take him in Kansas, we can go back to Telarrico in a moment if we want to. You got to repent for eating beef, he says. You got to repent for driving a car. You got to repent for being white. He says Christians are more dangerous than Muslims. And then if you look at the ads, I've seen them myself, the ads of Muslims in Kansas City. They're supporting him, fundraising. They say advertise on there, he'll cut off, he'll cut off funds to Israel. So we got to vote for him. So he'll cut off funds for Israel. Well, there's a whole nother issue.
Tim BartonWell, Dr. Garla, let me jump in real quick. It seems quite ironic when someone says Christians are more dangerous than the Muslims. What I'm seeing happen in France right now, uh, it doesn't seem like that's a bunch of Christian kids on the streets that are burning down the city. Uh it seems like the level of intellectual dishonesty could not be more obvious. And yet, it does seem that he's appealing to an audience that is very supportive when I say that, like leftists, the Marxists, the communists, the socialists, the Islamists that would support this. But do you think the people in Kansas are maybe not aware of these statements? Or do you think that they agree with them that he would have such strong support in Kansas saying things as dumb as Christians are a bigger threat to America than Muslims are? That seems so crazy to me.
Speaker 1And it doesn't bother them, he says the Bible's full of mistakes. I've watched the interviews of people who claim to be Republicans who are going to vote for Adam Hamilton. I've watched what they say. And it's almost always along the same lines of what you alluded to a moment ago. It's not thinking rationality. It's, I like him. Let me show you how how slick this guy is when he was asked, are you a conservative or a liberal? He said, Absolutely. That was his answer. And the crowd loves it and they clap and cheer and his quick-wittedness, and they're duped by it. They're completely duped by it. Now, what's working against in the case of Kansas, I know that state fairly well, is the diesel fuel's high and agriculture is a big part of it. They've they've they've trumped up all kinds of false things about the opponent. I never met Roger Marshall. He's a medical doctor, OBGYN, who's delivered 5,000 babies. He's pro-life. Uh, I've been told by people who I have great confidence in him that he's the real deal. I've never met him at all. But they're they're so taken by this winsomeness. I like him. And so it's all emotional and not carefully thought through of the implications of what he's saying. In the case of Talarico, he said, Oh, Islam has been a profound influence on my Christian faith. Really? In what way? And his list just goes on and gets more bizarre. We've all heard it so many times. How many God's not binary and six genders and all this kind of thing. Uh Tellerico comes off, you have an awareness. He he comes off like a young kid who just doesn't hasn't thought his way out of a paper bag. But people are screaming and cheering for him. And I go, wait a minute, this is not the Texas I knew. I lived in Texas 13 years. I love Texas. I love Texans. And when I lived there, they were a smart group. How could they possibly be doing this?
The Biblical Worldview Gap In Churches
Speaker 1They're not adequately grounded themselves spiritually. And George Barna has jolted us all, the Grand Polster, with the information that 94%, 92% of every person sitting in a pew this next Sunday does not have a biblical worldview. And if you go to millennials, 96% out of every hundred in a church pew this Sunday does not have a biblical worldview. And there is the core of the problem. We're not grounded in God, His Word. We don't understand the nature of repentance, of sin, of fearing a holy and righteous God. We blow off and say, Well, I I know some people who are gay and they have a right to love who they want. No awareness that they're supporting that for which God destroyed Sodom. Just a coup I'm in Israel, and just a couple days ago, I was right by the location where ancient Sodom was. And these people are oblivious to the fact that there's a God who sees what is wrong. He sees evil. And someday we pay a price for that.
Tim BartonSo,
A Voting Rubric Starting With Life
Tim BartonDr. Garlow, for for those listening, obviously we're in the middle of early voting right now all over the United States. We have people listening in all 50 states. What would you encourage as a Christian? What is the metric that we should be using to evaluate these candidates? Because you would think if someone says, Hey, I'm a pastor, you'd think, well, that's the guy we want, because that's a guy who knows God, who knows his word. But as we're talking about now, that that's not always the case, unfortunately, that there are times when you have a wolf in sheep's clothing pretending to be something they are not. So, what what would you say is the rubric, the measurement that Christians should have and use as we're looking at who we're gonna vote for in the midst of all of this early voting going on right now?
Speaker 1We need to ask ourselves who came up with the idea of government? The answer is God. Who came up with the establishment of nations? The answer is God. His word is so good it deals with all four governments, not just personal government as self-restraint, not just family government, not just congregational or church life, that's church government, but he he deals with civil governance, and the scripture is full of exactly how civil government is supposed to function. Tim, you're aware of this. I wrote a book called Well Versed that lays out the biblical foundations to 30 political and governmental topics. Then I wrote a book called Reverse, which lays out the biblical foundations to 60 political topics. Then I already referenced the book where we analyzed the 200 executive orders of Donald Trump, and then most recently in September, had a book come out where we analyzed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 30 of them at the United Nations. To what extent are they biblical? To what extent are they not biblical? Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord. And God is going to bless those nations to follow his ways. To the extent that we will follow, to the extent that a nation follows the biblical principles of governance, to that extent human pain, suffering, and poverty will decrease. To the extent that a nation violates the biblical principles of governance, to that extent, that nation will increase human pain, suffering, and poverty. God is so good, so loving, he put in his word the principles of civil governance. So any person who cares about their nation, who loves their nation, who cares about their children or their grandchildren is going to want to have blessing, not curses. And the way we get blessings is to obey God's word.
Final Charge To Vote Biblically
Speaker 1So we get his word, and the foundational principle of all the government is to protect the citizenry. So if we just start with that one alone, you could never vote for somebody who kills babies in the womb.
Tim BartonThat is a really great metric to start with. Uh, we we point out the founding fathers, they said life, then liberty, then the pursuit of happiness. If somebody does not support the baby's right to life, they're probably not going to support any of your other rights as well. So the right to life is a really great place to start. Dr. Garlo, thank you for taking time in Israel. Uh, I know it's the wee hours of the morning for you over there, but thank you for taking time to be with us today.
Speaker 1It's a joy to be with you, Tim. Blessings on you, my friend.
Tim BartonOh, Dr. Garlo, we love and appreciate you too. Thank you so much for being with us today and for everybody listening. Make sure you are getting engaged and voting as early voting is underway and make sure you are prioritizing the issues right. Vote for the pro-life, pro-God, pro-biblical candidates. That's what our nation needs. God bless you guys. We'll see you back here tomorrow on the Ball Builder Show.
