The WallBuilders Show
The WallBuilders Show is a daily journey to examine today's issues from a Biblical, Historical and Constitutional perspective. Featured guests include elected officials, experts, activists, authors, and commentators.
The WallBuilders Show
Who Gets To Rewrite Your Rules Of Government
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A state constitutional convention can sound like a clean reset button, but it can also become the biggest political gamble voters never meant to take. We dig into Michigan’s ballot question and explain why some states are required to periodically ask voters whether they want a convention, what a convention could change, and why “opening the whole constitution” is a very different move than pursuing a focused constitutional amendment. Along the way, we talk through a simple decision filter: what exact problem are you trying to fix, and do you actually have the votes and the cultural consensus to get a good outcome?
We also clear up a common confusion for anyone tracking constitutional news: a Michigan state constitutional convention is not the same thing as an Article V Convention of States for the US Constitution. The incentives, the risks, and the potential scope are different. If your goal is good governance and durable reform, narrower tools often beat sweeping rewrites, especially in an era when activists can steer a process far beyond what voters expected.
Then we pivot to culture and civics with a review of Adventures in Odyssey “The Measure of a Patriot”. We love values driven storytelling, but we ask a fair question: when you’re marking America’s 250th anniversary, does the framing leave kids more grateful and courageous, or just more skeptical? We wrap with a practical civics question about taxpayer funded lawsuits between governments and a reminder to vote principles and agendas, not personality. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find these biblical, historical, and constitutional conversations.
Welcome And Ways To Connect
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's the WallBuilders Show on a Thursday, which means it's Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Thanks for joining us today. You can learn more about us at our websites, wallbuilders.com and wallbuilders.show. Wallbuilders.com for pretty much everything WallBuilders, other than the radio program. You can pick up those previous programs at wallbuilders.show, and that's also where you can share it with friends and family. WallBuilders.com is the place to make that one time our monthly contribution, which helps us stay on the air and also to reach more people and everything that we're doing, from the training of pastors and students and teachers and educating the nation to constitution classes to you name it, it's all there at wallboulders.com and every dollar counts. So if you can make that contribution today, we greatly appreciate it. WallBuilders.com. Now, when I say Foundations of Freedom Thursday, if you're new to the program, that simply means we take on hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective, just like we do every day of the week, but we let you pick the topic. So you can send in your questions to radio at wallboulders.com and we'll tackle as many of those as we can each Thursday. First question up today is uh is an interesting, really interesting question that I don't know the answer to at all. So I'm anxious to learn from these guys as well.
Michigan Convention Question On Ballot
SPEAKER_00Here's the question it comes from Mark. He said, Hello, guys, thank you so much for your work to help get this country back to the roots that made us great. What you and your team have done and are doing is truly amazing and much appreciated. My question is about the ballot initiative in Michigan. Now, pause. We talked yesterday about all the different things coming up in the election, not just the election of the uh House and the Senate in Washington, D.C. and all the local elections, but ballot initiatives also around the country. And so Mark is asking about the ballot initiative in Michigan to have a constitutional convention. I he said, I want to think it's a good thing if we can get some of the liberal policies changed, but I am torn on how to vote. What are the risks versus rewards of having a convention? And are you familiar with the way one would work in Michigan? And so just to kind of add to the question, guys, I am assuming this is not an Article V convention of states. It's not for the federal constitution. This is for the Michigan Constitution, and I guess to address um, you know, clauses in the Michigan Constitution. I don't know. This is totally foreign to me. So what's this one all about, guys?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, being being in Texas, we are not used to even this type of thought or question. But as all the states were doing their their various state constitutions, et cetera, it became fairly common uh for a lot of the states to put in a provision that says, hey, to make sure we reflect the will of the people or to change anything that's not working right, every 10, 15, 20 years, we're gonna have a state constitutional convention, or at least vote on whether to have one. And if anything big has come up over that time, we'll go in and address it. And that might mean writing a whole new state constitution, or it might mean just adding some amendments to the constitution, whatever. And so this goes back and it's it's a practice been going for a while. A lot of states don't know about it, but there's 14 states that have in their constitution a provision that requires they automatically have a constitutional convention question on the ballot at certain intervals. Um, for example, every 10 years, Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island, every 10 years they have to put that on their ballot. Do we want to have a constitutional convention? Now, today uh I got to back up. At the time they were doing these constitutions, nobody was thinking about changing the value system. And today the question with having a constitutional convention is are we gonna decide we want a whole different value system and different form of government? You know, back then they were looking at at changes and amendments and this is not working quite well, or let's get rid of this agency and that constitution, or whatever. So you you have those states that do it every 10 years, every 16 years, Michigan does it, and this is their year to do it. So, Michigan, this is required every 16 years, and and so I I mean literally um 78 they did it, 94 they did it, 2010 they did it, and now we're in 2026, so they're doing it again. This this is what they do. Then there's uh several states that have to do it every 20 years, and that's Connecticut and Illinois and Maryland and Missouri and Montana and New York, Ohio, and Oklahoma. Oklahoma's kind of fun. Oklahoma, they've been, what has it been now, 54 years since their last 20-year call? They're not even putting it on the ballot anymore. So they had so much pressure, and the attorney general got after them, and so they put it on the ballot for this year. Oklahoma had their last question submitted to the people in 1970. So they should have done it in 1990 and 2010. Oklahoma just didn't want to. I love it.
SPEAKER_01Well, Dad, to be fair, uh, it's because they started wearing shoes at that time. Oh and then their toes were not available for the count, and they were like, I don't know when 20 is. It's too hard.
SPEAKER_02He's insulting North Texas here. This is North Texas we're talking about, right? He's getting ready for the Texas OU border fight football team. Only there's no no that uh that already happened.
SPEAKER_01That was embarrassing. Um Oklahoma pulled that one out. He's responding to the Texas OU. Yeah, that's that's better. That's right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So yeah. So that's that's essentially how this works. And and this is not uh an attempt to rewrite our our constitutional form of government or the Republican form of government required by the Constitution. This is something that if you're not in one of those states, and again, you're you're looking at you know a fixed number of states, is there's not that many states that do this, and so for two-thirds of us, we don't think about this, but that's what that ballot initiative is in Michigan, is it'll be on the ballot. And the the right now the polling shows by two to one margin, Michiganders or however you call them, Michigan, or whatever they call themselves, they don't want to rewrite a constitution or have a constitutional convention. They they like the way it's going, they like their document, and so probably and it's been a long time since a state actually voted to have a constitutional convention for the state. Um they they keep kind of liking where it is, and I expect Michigan will do exactly the same thing in this election
Convention Risks And Safer Alternatives
SPEAKER_02too.
SPEAKER_01Well, and Dad, I think to the point uh of the question is would it be a good idea or bad idea to vote for a constitutional convention? And I think a lot of it depends on do if I was gonna vote for a constitutional convention, I would need to have identified the problems in the constitution that I want to see changed. And then I need to calculate do I think I have the votes to get some of those changes done? Because if I don't, then it's not a in my mind, it's not a wise strategic decision to vote for a convention when I don't think we would be able to resolve the problems we want to resolve and we don't have the votes to get good things accomplished, then it doesn't seem strategic in that sense. Uh and so that would be my assessment as far as when he's saying, hey, should I vote or not vote for it? I I think it depends, again, on the problem you're trying to solve and the probability of the outcome would weigh into how I voted on that ballot measure.
SPEAKER_02You know, and that, Tim, is a really important question because a lot of if you've got something you're really stuck on that you think needs to be fixed, a lot of that can be done by constitutional amendment. And the people can vote on that. Here's what I'm after. Um, Michigan, when they did this, you know, I went through the years that that they did this, but back in 61, 62, it was on the ballot, and they opened up a constitutional convention and rewrote their entire constitution. And so they they now function under a 1963 constitution, but they still have a requirement that every every 16 years or so they they go through and look at it. But in this climate and this culture where that we no longer agree on whether communism is bad or good, and we have Democrat socialists, and we have 250 of these Democrat Socialists, leaning communists now elected to office, you gotta really think about whether you want to open up your state constitution and let activists like that work their way in or try to convince people, et cetera. And so another alternative is hey, if you see something wrong with your constitution, good, go get legislators, work on a constitutional amendment for your state. It'll be on the ballot like this year or whatever year it would be. And I'm I know there's a number of state constitutional amendments on the ballot this year. There is every two years. So that's another way of going at it without having to open up the entire constitution in this particular era where we're not sure what's up and what's down.
SPEAKER_00And for those who might be wondering, uh, this is completely different and a different calculation than the federal constitution and what we call a convention of states, because in that case, you've got state legislators all with the incentive of bringing power back from the feds to the states, and each state's a little bit different, and they would do different things with that power. In this case, you're talking about within a state, that individual state constitution, you've already got those state legislators calling those shots. So you're talking about remaking how that entire state potentially works, a much different calculation, much higher risk in terms of what would end up uh happening in your individual state. So don't confuse this with what we call convention of states, which is a federal uh process for amending the U.S. Constitution and shifting power away from the feds back to the states. This one's totally different. And I'm I'm like you guys, I think Tim's analysis is exactly right in terms of kind of your cost-benefit analysis. Man, you'd have to have some really good big changes that you're shooting for, and also know that the people that would be at that convention in that individual state uh would be for those things. And I think the last time, you know, David, you mentioned Texas, the last time we even really had a discussion about this was even before I was in the legislature. I mean, this was about 30 years ago, and Rob Janil was uh working on, you know, a not a total rewrite, but doing a lot of different things in terms of lengths of Senate seats or uh terms and house seats and that kind of stuff. And man, I haven't heard anybody talk about it since. And that's been literally 35 years ago. So nobody's been pushing for those big changes. Of course, we do amend our Texas Constitution almost on a biannual basis. Almost every legislative session, there's six, eight, ten uh constitutional amendments that come out of that. But it's what you're saying, David, it's gone through the legislative process and it's specific to that particular issue, and uh and it's the way our our constitution happens to work here in Texas.
SPEAKER_02And actually, the Texas Constitution is one of the weirdest in the nation. I mean, being an independent nation as we were, coming from Mexico and then becoming an independent nation, then annexing ourselves to the United States as a separate nation, which that's not just Texas pride. That's that's part of history. Texas was an independent nation in 1836, we became independent, state independent, we annexed ourselves to the United States with their permission in 1845 as a nation. And so our Constitution really reflects more of the Mexican Constitution, where that it's really more like a list of laws rather than just principles and guidelines like the U.S. Constitution is. So when we have a constitutional amendment in Texas, it's kind of like a state passing a law in their state in many cases. We're just micromanaging some of the things in the Constitution. But, you know, even at that, we decided not to open it up, which I think was a really good choice given what could happen with the other side and where they are and the lack of lack of common beliefs that we hold now across the country.
Adventures In Odyssey Patriot Episodes
SPEAKER_00Well, we I think we got time to get one more in before the break. And normally I don't toss a question to one or other of these guys, but this one, Kendall, has targeted one of our two hosts or three hosts here. Hey, Wall Boulders team, I enjoy listening to the program with some of my favorite episodes being on Foundations of Freedom Thursday. I had a quick question for y'all, but more specifically for Tim. I was listening to the new Adventures in Odyssey episodes, and I wondered what y'all's opinions were on episodes 1040 and 1041. Quote, the measure of a patriot parts one and two. I appreciated the presentation of the good, the bad, and the ugly in the episodes and the fact they didn't hide the bad, but they also didn't glorify it. Just wondered if y'all uh y'all's opinion, what your opinion on them uh were. Keep up the good work. All right, Kendall. That question is going to Tim. Now, I don't know, Tim, is that because you're the youngest of the three of us? It's because you've talked about Adventures and Odyssey several times on the program. Uh, I'm not sure why she directed it to you, but there you go, man.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I I gotta say, I love the fact that in the midst of us talking about the constitutional, the biblical, the moral, the historic, political issues that somebody's thrown in Adventures and Odyssey. I love that so much. Uh, my heart is happy. I I have two girls uh and I have gotten them into listening to Adventures in Odyssey. So fully support this. Uh, so the episode that was in question, I had not listened to. It's called The Measure of a Patriot. And largely because I had so many uh dozens and dozens and dozens of the old CDs. Uh, and then I bought a whole bunch of iTunes albums. So I have over 50 something of the albums uh in my iTunes account. Uh and so I felt like I didn't I didn't want to pay for the streaming service um because that's where all the new episodes are coming out. Because I have hundreds and hundreds of these. That was plenty for my daughters uh to keep us entertained for a while. But I had to go get on the streaming so that I could listen to this. And I gotta say, uh, this came out, the first episode came out uh the beginning of July. So this was their 250th episode. And so my overall assessment is I'm a little bit disappointed, but it factoring in, it depends on what the expectation was. So knowing this was gonna be the 250 episode, in my brain, I'm going, this ought to be something that we are highlighting, the stories of courage and sacrifice and faith, and we're celebrating America. So my expectation is this is gonna be super pro-America, and that's not exactly what it was.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, quick question. You said this was a 250th episode, you mean the episode in the series or the episode on the 250th anniversary of America?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I meant the episode, and I'm glad, good clarification. This was the episode that came out to celebrate America's 250th. So not the 250th, 100, 2500 episode, uh, because that happened uh years ago. Uh there, they're actually uh this was episode uh thousand something, whatever it was. At least that's the way they're numbering them. So this this is not the 250th episode, but the episode that came out to celebrate America's 250th. Now, with that being said, um it again, depending on what the expectation was, um if if the expectation was I want wholesome, uh kind of values-driven entertainment, it totally met the mark. And kind of my walk away from it is if you were someone who already loved America, you would enjoy this episode. But if you were someone who, like maybe a student who's been in public school who's heard a lot of the negative narrative, it it would not shift that person to go, man, I love America more now because the framing of it was Benjamin Franklin was a thief because he he stole the Hutcheson letters and he leaked those, uh, which you know got those printed in the newspaper, and then it caused this hubbub. And and Caesar Rodney was a slave owner, even though he made this courageous ride, he owned slaves. And and John Adams was incredibly arrogant and prideful, which by the way, the the they actually use quotes from John Adams. So some of it it was great that it was like, Yeah, he really said that. But when when the the loyalists came to John Adams after the Boston massacre and said, We need an attorney that can defend these British soldiers because nobody else will take them. John Adams' response was, nothing would make me more proud and feel like more of a man than to defend these guys. And it's like, well, hang on a second. Several years after he defended them, he looked back and said, That was in my mind one of the most proud, manly things I've ever done was defending those soldiers, knowing I was defending them for the right reasons and purpose, etc. So he wasn't saying it pridefully because actually, if you go back and again review just a little bit more, the loyalists that came to him came in tears. Nobody will defend these guys, everybody's turn them down. Would you please? And he instantly, in his heart, and this is by the way, it's in his journals and his writings, he talks about this. In his heart, he said, There should never be somebody, and this was his response, there should never be anybody in America that will not be represented. I will absolutely represent them. But he said it with a solemn, firm manner, not with pride, because he again goes on to write about that he was so uh burdened and the grievous nature, and he was fearful for his family because of the opposition against him for the Patriots. All of this to say what they were trying to do was frame that the founding fathers weren't perfect, but God still used them. And so it's it's actually a line that I use often when I talk about the founding fathers that the founding fathers weren't perfect men, that they were imperfect men used by a perfect God for the greater good of what God was accomplishing. So imperfect man used by a perfect God for his glory, for freedom, etc. I totally support that idea, but again, because the framing was these guys weren't perfect, um, but God used them. It it didn't even actually show the courage, the sacrifice, the faith that would make you celebrate how God used them. So if you already know and like these guys, it it wouldn't bother you necessarily because it goes, oh, okay, I guess these guys weren't perfect. Again, the framing of John Adams did bother me a little bit because it showed him to be a really proud person defending the British, which is not the way he defended the British. But I was a little disappointed because I was hoping it would be far more pro-Americana, pro-founding fathers, highlighting again the sacrifice, the courage, the faith of the guys and what they did. But I also appreciate that they were trying to give an honest take that these guys, just like all of us, and and again, I can see where they're trying probably trying to make a kid connection, that these guys, just like us, were imperfect, but God used them in spite of their imperfections. I fully support the message. I just feel like that that being the episode that comes out to celebrate America's 250th, probably missed the mark a little bit because it didn't really feel like we were celebrating America. It felt more like the apologetic that God uses imperfect people, which is absolutely true. It just wasn't as pro-America as I would have hoped.
SPEAKER_00Sounds like a missed opportunity, really, because you know, so many other examples throughout the 250th where we did emphasize, you know, why we should be excited about America and and and her success over those 250 years, and so many um, you know, families that, like you said, looking for that wholesome entertainment and looking, you know, for a source they could trust on these kinds of things. So yeah, definitely a missed opportunity there. We'd love to see um the you know emphasis on the good and uh and certainly on really the great, not just the good. I mean, the American story is absolutely amazing. And speaking of that, there are a couple of couple of pretty good books, outstanding books, I think, by that name. And uh so check those out at Wobblers.com. Not necessarily kids' books, but we do have some great kids' materials and other things available there at wobblers.com. So if you want to supplement maybe those uh adventures and odysse episodes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and Rick, let me throw in too. This is something, again, to clarify, I'm not opposed to this episode. This is a great episode. I just feel like it wasn't the greatest for the 250th celebration and anniversary. So just to be clear, this is not sliding Adventures and Odyssey. I still think they do a great job. My kids are going to continue to listen to Adventures and Odyssey, but as you pointed out, it was a missed opportunity, not a bad episode, but a missed opportunity where we could be celebrating America. And again, kind of my conclusion is there is nothing that I can see in the episode that would make someone more proud to be American or more patriotic after that episode. And that's why I think it was a missed opportunity.
SPEAKER_00All right, quick brick guess. We got time for at least one more question when we come back. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show. It's Foundations of Freedom Thirst.
How To Share The Podcast
SPEAKER_00Hey friends, Rick Green for the WallBuilders Show. Encouraging you to share the program with friends and family and listen to it on the podcasts that are out there. There's so many options out there for you to listen to in the car or from home or while you're working out. You've got Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, Castbox. I mean, there's so many options, and we just want to make sure you know we've worked hard to get it out there and make it available for you on all those different apps. Everybody's got their favorite app, so choose your particular app. And if it's not on there yet, email us, radio at wallbuilders.com, and let us know about your favorite podcast app, and we'll make sure Wallbuilders Radio is listed there. But you can listen and most importantly, share it with your friends and family. That's how the program grows. That's how we get more truth in the hands of as many people as possible. And then, of course, wallbuilders.show, super easy place uh to find all of those podcast apps and to just download right there from that website as well as be able to share it with your friends and family. So check it out today, wallboarders.show, or just go directly to your favorite podcast app, listen to the Wabbuilder Show and share it with as many people as you possibly can. Welcome back to the Wallboulder Show. Thanks for staying with us on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday.
Who Pays For Government Lawsuits
SPEAKER_00Next question comes from Lori in Pennsylvania. She said, Hello again. I continue to thank God for all of you and for the tireless efforts to educate Americans on what is going on in our country. I'm so grateful to hear from you all every day as it encourages me in the battle here in my hometown and state. Have a legal question. Uh, and and by the way, I stumbled on her I hear you all every day, because you know it should say I hear y'all every day. Okay, no, she's from Pennsylvania. She's not going to say that. Anyway, she said the question who pays for all the legal battles around our country, uh, such as when Ken Paxson sued the feds and yay, y'all won. Um, when the government's suing different parts of the states, and even my governor now suing President Trump. Heard a young woman on a meeting with Tony Schupe from Patriot Academy the other night, and she said this politician sued someone 69 times, and that was all at the expense of taxpayers. And they were really ridiculous cases. So, do the taxpayers foot this bill? I'm currently facilitating constitutional life in my church, and I have not yet found it in the Constitution. We have discussed how far out of the box the judiciary is and the fact that the executive and legislative branches don't use their authority over them. Anyway, would love to hear the answer, and I'm hoping it's not the taxpayer. Uh, thanks again uh for all that y'all do. So, who pays for all these lawsuits? From one government to another government.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this is this is definitely the people, and that is not an unconstitutional thing. I mean the Constitution sets it up and says here's the functions of government, here's w the the basic jurisdictions, and the people pay for that. Now it's the people who have to decide if that official is doing what's in the interest of the state or if he's doing something stupid, and maybe 69 frivolous cases is enough to get you thrown out. But for Ken Paxson suing to uphold in in the in the cases he's done that I'm aware of, uh we've been, you know, right there in the middle of so many of those as they're going around us, he's really done a good job of protecting states' interests, protecting Tenth Amendment, state authority, uh of upholding federal law and state law. And I just haven't seen him be frivolous, but the state pays for that, and that's something I'm happy to pay for because I do want our borders protected, and I do want the bad guys thrown out. And I I do want illegals that are committing crimes to be prosecuted. And so he's got all these cases he keeps winning in court, which is really good, and it's a pushback against the kind of uh I I guess progressive takeover of governments to do what they want. But that doesn't mean everyone is like that, but it does mean that constitutionally they're supposed to pay the the people do pay for that. It's just gonna have to be the people deciding whether what that person is doing is what they want to pay for. And that's that's gonna happen when you vote them in. But there's no question that those state attorneys, the state attorney generals, uh, those state judicial officers that are in uh in that are charged with enforcement, they're going to do that, and it's gonna be largely on what their philosophy is. And if they're familiar with the Constitution, then you can be you you can be happy with probably what they're gonna do. If they're not familiar with the Constitution, believe it's a living constitution, then you're probably not gonna like what they do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I think David is exactly right. I mean, we we need attorney generals, uh attorneys general, how I always forget which way you're supposed to say that, but we need them uh to defend the Constitution. And sometimes, look, the federal government gets out of control, does things it shouldn't be doing. Sometimes it takes the lawsuits from the states to push back on the on the uh on the federal government. In a lot of cases, it's not a a huge expense to that state because that staff is already in place and you've got people that are already on salary and already uh able to uh you know marshal their resources towards that. And I totally agree with your assessment. In fact, uh General Paxton has has won some big, big cases against the uh Obama administration back in the day and the Biden administration, just done some really, really important things to help defend the Constitution. Um and then you you know sometimes have uh attorneys general that that do it in a in a in a frivolous way. But yeah, I think that is definitely borne by the taxpayers of that individual state. But I would say, like you said, it's actually a a good thing, but you have to hold those people accountable in in your particular state. Now, speaking of that, uh Paxton is of course up for U.S. Senate in the state of Texas, one of the most closely watched races, most expensive. I think it's now $400, $450 million in this particular race. We have some other important races across
Vote Principles Not Personality
SPEAKER_00the the country. We mentioned this, talked about this all day yesterday, but in our final minute, guys, encouragement to Christians to turn out the vote.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I would say we have talked about this a lot, but to reiterate, this is not just something that Christians need to get out and vote. We need to encourage and help disciple those around us. Because as someone as a Christian in Texas, I have seen a lot of my Christian friends actually posting things about what I would consider very bad policy decisions. And so we need to be careful not just to say, let's get all Christians out to vote. We need to help disciple our friends to make sure they're not being misled by propaganda, bad messaging, because especially these last couple of weeks before the election, there's a lot of things that campaigns will intentionally put out to mislead people, to discourage the vote, try to get them to vote the wrong direction. So don't just encourage your friends to get out and vote. Help guide and disciple them on what's actually going on. Rick, I heard you say earlier this week, sometimes people will say, well, you know, it's really between the Republicans and the communists. And that's kind of what we look at. But this time it actually is. Literally, there are Marxists, communists, and socialists, the Democrats Social of America that are running on the Democrat side. It's not as confusing as some people might think, but we got to help our friends know what's actually happening.
SPEAKER_02And I gotta add, you you gotta not vote personality. Nobody's perfect. You gotta vote agendas, and literally a lot of that's determined by the party they're with, what those agendas are. And so you can't separate the person from that party and what that party's trying to do. So don't vote on personalities, vote on principles and vote on the the principles of the party they're going to be representing.
Christian Voter Guide And Closing
SPEAKER_00Christian VoterGuide.com to get more information on the races in your area. Christian VoterGuide.com. Don't miss tomorrow. Good news Friday coming up tomorrow. You've been listening to the Well Voters Show.
