The WallBuilders Show
The WallBuilders Show is a daily journey to examine today's issues from a Biblical, Historical and Constitutional perspective. Featured guests include elected officials, experts, activists, authors, and commentators.
The WallBuilders Show
Why Your Vote Still Matters
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Twenty days sounds like plenty of time until you realize how many elections get decided by a few thousand votes, sometimes less. We talk through the hard truth behind low-turnout midterm elections: when fewer people show up, your vote carries more weight, and organized groups can swing congressional districts, school boards, and statewide constitutional amendments.
We also take on the most common reasons Christians give for staying home. Politics feels dirty, the parties feel the same, and one vote feels small. We answer those objections with real numbers from toss-up districts and with a biblical lens on stewardship, accountability, and what it means to live in a nation built on “We the people.” If we really believe responsibility comes with authority, voting is not optional background noise, it is part of how we love our neighbors in practice.
Then we get practical. We run through major state ballot initiatives, including ranked choice voting, citizen-only voting rules, voter ID, protections for women’s sports, abortion amendments, and other policy questions that can shape your state constitution for decades. We also explain why third-party voting rarely changes outcomes in a two-party system and why incremental progress matters. Finally, we highlight why Senate control affects judicial confirmations and long-term court decisions.
If this conversation sharpens your thinking, subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it.
Where To Find WallBuilders
SPEAKER_02This is the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the Wall Builder Show. Uh two websites to give you today, Wallbuilders.show. We give it every day, but Wallbuilders.show, of course, the radio site. If you missed any programs recently, go there and download or listen and share with your friends and family, and also on all the podcast apps out there. If that's easier for you when you're listening on the road or, you know, maybe doing your morning jog and you listen to wall builders, you can listen to it on all those different podcast apps out there. And then, of course, wallbuilders.com, which is our main website, a massive amount of great information there, as well as a way to get connected. Uh get your pastor to go on one of our briefings in DC, young people into our programs. I mean, there's a lot of opportunities there, and then of course, great education as well. Check that out at wallboulders.com. And while you're there, thinking about making that one time our monthly contribution, it helps to get us into the hands of more people and also just helps to keep us on the air. I mean, it takes dollars to do these things, and we need your help to do that. So we appreciate you coming alongside and making it possible for us to reach more people. Uh, wallboulders.com and wallboulders.show. I'm
Election Countdown And High Stakes
SPEAKER_02Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And uh today, man, we got a lot of lot to catch up on. Uh we've had a couple of programs this week that have already pointed out the insanity of the Democrat Socialist of America and the influence that they now have in the Democrat Party. It's not just some fringe group and how important the upcoming elections are. Uh David and Tim, what are we down to? Let's see, 20 days, I guess, as of today. So we're down to the wire. It's less than three weeks at this point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're down to the wire. It's a real interesting thing. There's several um I I guess you'd call them indicators. Now I guess I'm I'm kind of conscious of this because later this week I've got to do some briefings for people from some national groups that that want to know briefing on where the elections are. So I've been looking into some of this, and it's it's it's a real mixed bag. I'm still optimistic, but it looks like I'm in the minority, but I'm still optimistic. There's some good things going out there, and I see some good things happening. Um actually the national polling and national betting says that that Republicans may get whooped in this thing, and I think that only happens if if Republicans don't show up. So hopefully they'll show up. Hopefully they'll be here. Hopefully we can keep some stuff going. Uh the consequences of losing the Senate at this point, there's so many bad things that might happen and losing the House too. Those are just not good scenarios, and we can talk about some of the consequences later. But we are getting down to the wire now, and I hope everybody, if they have not early voted, that they are planning and making preps to go vote, because this is a really big deal, and this is an off-year election when fewer people vote overall. So when you vote, you actually have more influence because you're part of a smaller group, which gives you more influence. So definitely, Christians, conservatives, others, make sure you show up and vote.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I
Common Reasons People Skip Voting
SPEAKER_02would love to ask you guys, I know we're going to get into some of the specific races around the country, but sometimes it's important to acknowledge and respond to some of the major objections uh about voting. And I think Christians that check out right now usually they fall into either the category of uh, you know, I'm more spiritual or I'm more righteous if I don't get involved in that stuff because it's dirty. I always love Rob McCoy's response to that when they say politics is dirty. He says the church is dirty. So what? What's your point? Uh but there's that, you know, the people that think just don't get involved. Then there are those who think, um, you know, Republicans and Democrats are the same. My vote, you it wouldn't matter, it's uniparty and there's no difference. And then there are those who think I'm too small, like my one vote won't matter. So if you guys could address any one or all of those, I think it might answer some of the objections or maybe excuses that people use to sit on the sidelines and not show up, like you said, David, at an opportunity where their vote is really worth twice what it would be in a presidential election. It's got a lot more weight in this one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it really does. And
How A Few Votes Decide Races
SPEAKER_00just to deal with the stuff of my vote doesn't matter, I want to take something that's going right now. Uh Chad Connolly with Faith Wins, and he and I are traveling across the nation and we're spending time in 43 congressional districts that are considered toss-up. They could go one way or the other where just a few votes could make a difference. And so just this last week we had a meeting uh in in a in a state that uh it was significant to me because generally you've got about 760,000 people in a congressional district. So you're you're three-quarters of a million. You know, that's all of us feel lost in a group of that size. There's no stadium that holds that many, and if we were in that stadium, we wouldn't consider ourselves significant. But out of that 760,000, only about 170,000 or so are going to vote in the election. And in that particular district, as in these 40 plus districts that we're working in, the deciding factor in in these elections out of 170,000 votes is likely to be determined by a thousand, two thousand, twenty five hundred votes. And it turned out that in that particular place where we met, eleven congregations came together and they had typically not been particularly involved, but they came together and we spent the night taking them through biblically, historically, why why this is a Christian responsibility. And I was struck when I left there that, you know, eleven churches, those eleven churches we just had that meeting with could tilt that entire congressional district. You know, the the 170,000 votes cast, so what is it, 85,000, 86,000 that win it. But the margin is what is really important, and and that's where you can't get lost in I'm only one of 170,000. You need to look at I I could be one of the few hundred that make that difference. And that's a whole different look of the election because if you get lost in the crowd, you won't do
Voting As Accountability To God
SPEAKER_00it. But the other thing that I go to, and and and this is just my eschatology, theology, et cetera. I I believe, and I think I can show this out of the scriptures, that we stand before God. Uh I know the scriptures, he's gonna hold me accountable for what I said, what I did, even what I thought, not that thoughts don't go through my head that are wrong, but what I stop and meditate and think about, what I what I keep in my head. I mean, all of that's there. Words, actions, deeds, etc. And I'm I'm reminded by the two parallel kind of parables, Matthew 25 and Luke 19, about where that the servant stood before the master and he said, I gave you this stuff, what'd you do with it? And one of the guys said, Well, you know, I didn't really do anything. I didn't really think you were all that fair, or you were going to care about it one way or the other. So I and he said, You wickedness, lawful servant, and I really feel that about a vote. When you're in a nation like this, uh it's not whether I win or lose, it's whether I can stand before God and say, God, that vote you gave me in this particular nation where I'm a steward of this nation, here's how I used it. And I I I put it to work here. And it needs to be put to work. And I don't want to have to be the one where he says, Hey, what'd you do with that vote I gave you? And I say, Well, I didn't do anything with it because I really didn't think it was going to matter. And I know you gave it to me, but it's just not that big a deal. I I just don't see that scripturally. And so for me, I want to be on the safe side of this. Now, it could be I'm totally wrong in the way I view that, but uh, at least I'm on the safe side. If I am wrong, it's not gonna cost me anything. If I'm right, I don't want to be embarrassed in front of the Father when he says, What'd you do with that vote I gave you?
SPEAKER_01Well, and
What Stewardship Looks Like In America
SPEAKER_01Dad, let me add some some depth to the the point you're making, because I agree with your argument, and I think there's more depth to it for help to help people who might go, Man, I'm just not sure that the vote is really what God's talking about stewardship. Now, first of all, it's certainly the example, what Jesus said is the kingdom of heaven is like this that a man goes on his journey, calls his servants, so he's giving a spiritual truth with a practical reality, but he's saying the key kingdom of heaven is just like the a master expecting the most from the people he left in charge. Now, in Luke 19, it says, occupy until I return, is what the master tells the servants when he leaves. He that you are in charge until I get back. And it would be one thing if you lived uh in a monarchy, it'd be one thing if you lived under communism and you didn't have a voice and a vote. But in America, if if you don't remember, go read the beginning of the constitution that says we the people. It identifies who's in charge of this nation. It's we the people. And and the reason I want to help connect this dot and make it a deeper uh understanding connection is if we are the ones who are the sovereigns, the kings of America, is the way this could be described, we are the ones who are the rulers and leaders, we choose people to represent us and they're doing things on our behalf, this is no different than when parents choose the school they're gonna send their kids to, because they're choosing the teachers that are gonna help train their kids on their behalf. And if we think that we can send our kids to somewhere where there's a bunch of godless teachers teaching our kids a bunch of terrible evil things, and that as a parent, we're not responsible for the people that are over our kids, teaching, mentoring, discipling, pouring into them. We don't bear any responsibility. I think you've misunderstood your role as a parent. We can say the same thing if if you are the the father or the mother of a family, and to think, well, you know, I'm not really in charge of what my kids do, I'm not really in charge of how they turn out. You've misunderstood what it means to be the parent, to be the mom or Dad. If you're driving a car in traffic and you're like, well, you know, I can't really make a difference. And so I guess I'll just park my car in the middle of the highway. No, it's dumb. You are literally in a position you can make a difference. And I'm saying this because in every one of those scenarios, the choices that you make, they don't just impact you, they impact the lives of those around you. Our stewardship is not just something that impacts us, it impacts the lives of those around us. And again, in America, we are the ones in charge. Just like if you're driving the car, you're in charge of the car. If you're the parent of a family, you're in charge of the family. Again, go down this list. If you're the parent choosing the school where your kid's gonna go, you're in charge of who is going to pour into disciple, teach, and educate your children. We will bear responsibility for every one of those decisions. So to imagine that we can be responsible in some of these scenarios, but not really who I vote for. Like that doesn't really matter. I think you've misunderstood the overarching thought and assignment of what stewardship is of what God has really given and entrusted to us, and ultimately the accountability that will be there. This again is something Jesus said in this parable, the kingdom of heaven is like this, and he likens it to a boss who has employees, to a master who had servants, and he says, Look, I'm leaving, but you know I expect a lot out of you. I I want high performance while I'm gone. You don't get high performance by sitting at home and not voting. You don't get high performance by saying, Well, I don't think my vote's really gonna matter. No, no, no. I I'm gonna show up and do the right thing, even if it didn't have always the desired outcome, because I'm going to steward the responsibility I was given by the boss, by the master, or in this case, maybe by God. And certainly again, living in America. It would be again a different argument if I was in China. I'm not, I'm in America. In America, we the people are in charge, and we the people bear that responsibility of stewardship.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, guys,
Hope Stories And Long Game Wins
SPEAKER_02it is it is absolutely a stewardship thing. And and that means, you know, uh, just like David, you've taught for decades that that regardless of the results, we still do that. We still do our duty. We don't get to just check out or complain because we don't like the candidates or because we think it's not making a difference. We still have that responsibility and duty no matter what. And and the good news is, I mean, we can make a difference. We get to see it all the time. It's the reason we do Good News Friday here on WallBuilders because we're we're pointing out the results where Christians have gotten involved and they have made a big difference, whether that's at the local level with a school board or a city council or some issue, or at the state level, or at the federal level. We've seen so many good things happen when Christians do get involved. So it's it's not like we have to just throw up our hands and say, oh, it's all lost. I mean, I know there's some people that say that around the country. They're wrong, and I think it's uh unfortunate they're depressing the people like the 10 spies from the promised, you know, we went to the promised land. Um we're more Joshua and Caleb style, and I think that is the accurate biblical uh model and and and position, and we we get to see it. I mean, we we we what were we looking at the other day? In fact, we're gonna get uh someone from the faith office, either Cassie Doolin or Paula White or Pastor Todd or one of the others, I think 250, I forgot we've lost count, it's several hundred victories on faith issues as a result of this administration. So I didn't mean to go down that down that rabbit trail there on those specific things, but it the point is it it's not you're not too small. I don't care who you are out there listening right now, you have a voice, not just the responsibility to do it, but you ought to be excited about it. You get to have an impact on the future of your community and the and the state and and our nation. So do it because it's a duty and a responsibility, but also have some hope and know. And sometimes it takes a long time. I mean, man, David, I know some of the state board of education races, my goodness, you were working on those, no kidding, three decades ago. Uh we were we were testifying at committees and working on things three decades ago, and we're seeing some of that pay off big bigger than we've ever seen it before. That's a long time. That's a lot of work, a lot of effort. You put in a ton of hours and hard work, and even some of that payoff is not going to happen for two or three years. But that's the way this system works. And it and it does work. The system works if we work it. Consent of the govern would be the operative phrase out of the Declaration of Independence. Give or refuse your consent by voting in the next couple of weeks. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.
How To Share And Listen
SPEAKER_02You're listening to the Wall Booter Show. Hey friends, Rick Green from the Wall Boater Show. Encouraging you to share the program with friends and family and listen to it on the podcasts that are out there. There's so many options out there for you to listen to in the car or from home or while you're working out. You've got Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, Castbox. I mean, there's so many options, and we just want to make sure you know we've worked hard to get it out there and make it available for you on all those different apps. Everybody's got their favorite app, so choose your particular app. And if it's not on there yet, email us, radio at wallbuilders.com, and let us know about your favorite podcast app. And we'll make sure WallBuilders Radio is listed there. But you can listen and most importantly, share it with your friends and family. That's how the program grows. That's how we get more truth in the hands of as many people as possible. And then, of course, wallbuilders.show, super easy place uh to find all of those podcast apps and to just download right there from that website as well as be able to share it with your friends and family. So check it out today, wallboarders.show, or just go directly to your favorite podcast app, listen to the WallBuilders show, and share it with as many people as you possibly can.
State Ballot Measures That Matter
SPEAKER_02Welcome back to the Wall Boulder Show. Thanks for staying with us, talking about the election coming up in just 20 days. Man, we are down to the wire. Uh early voting has already started in several of the of the key states. It'll be going in pretty much all of the key states uh by next week. And that's not just for the Senate and the House. We got all these propositions. David, you had talked about these a couple of times. I think, you know, in those key states, man, that's a that's a that's an opportunity not just to vote for someone that's gonna go into office. That's the opportunity to vote for a policy that'll literally, in some of these cases, go into your state constitution. So this is something that's gonna last for a while.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's some real big votes out there, and just kind of let people know what they are. I'm gonna run run down them real quick. But in Alaska, I I I hope this passes, Lord Willing, almost passed last time. But Alaska, if they can get rid of rank choice voting, it will be so much better. And they're they're bringing it back and trying to do it this time. Um it's interesting. Seven states are now, and this includes blue and red states both, have initiatives to say that only citizens can vote. Now, that includes California. Uh, that includes California and some other states that are tending to be blue, which means this is because people in California rose up and said, hey, we think this is crazy, and we want to do an in run around the legislature by constitutional means, and this is a way that we can kind of have a voice. And so we'll see if the voice of the people of California is more reasonable than their legislature is, which it might be, because so oftentimes so many people don't vote, but if they go vote this time, they can actually make a substantial change. But seven, seven states have that, that's Alaska and Arkansas and California, et cetera. Four more states are saying we want voter ID. We want to make sure a voter has to show an ID, and that's also California, and that's Colorado, and that's Nevada, three rather kind of blue to purple states, which is pretty significant, and the same with North Carolina, which tends to be a purple state. Uh three states have initiatives about no men in women's sports, and two of those states are very blue states, Colorado and Washington. Again, the people have gotten enough together here that the people can make their voice heard outside of the legislature through this. Uh there's four uh initiatives up on abortion in the states. One of them is to make abortion harder, three are to make abortion easier. Um so that I mean, there's just a bunch of stuff that that I that is significant policy-wise, where voters can have the say. It doesn't have to go through the legislature, it already has, or they've already used legislative means to get it on the ballot. And just some other kind of things that are that are kind of fun out here, is Alabama has on their their initiative that they're trying to vote to say, hey, we're gonna start the stars of school day by playing the national anthem and requiring the Pledge of Allegiance and having a student-led prayer. So that's like a rollback to decades ago when we did that. Um you've got uh states like uh Arkansas that's doing the natural right to keep them bear arms, the right to defend yourself is not statutory. That's a natural right that transcends all the laws. Uh you got states saying no transgender mutilation surgery like Colorado. Uh there's just a lot of stuff, and even Massachusetts, of all places, they're trying to repeal recreational marijuana use. And you'd never think that would happen in Massachusetts. But again, there's just a lot of conservative people out there who don't feel like their voice is being heard, and this is the time to make it heard and really push back on some of this liberal stuff. So that's really a big thing that's part of this election as well, is all these state ballot initiatives.
Why These Issues Are Mainstream
SPEAKER_01Well, and Dad, even as you're saying this, you know, that that that you're closing thought where there's a lot of conservatives that don't feel like they're being heard, and this is a reason for them to get out, I would say there's a lot of moderates and maybe even not entirely Kool-Aid drinking Democrats who are going, you know what? Uh, I do not support some of the craziness because we talk about this often. A lot of these things are 80-20 issues, maybe 70-30, maybe 90-10, depending on the issue. And the fact that you have political parties that are so divided that they uh you see that democrats won't support voter ID, and you have to ask why. Do they think it's gonna uh undercut them and hurt their base? Because then people that are voting Democrat won't come out and vote for them because the majority of Democrats polled, and I mean like large majority of Democrats polled, they support voter ID, and yet you see the Democrat political leaders not supporting that position. And this is where I think this isn't something that just are conservative ballot amendments, although these are positions that conservative political leaders have advocated for, these are also representative of the majority of American people in most situations. So this is not just conservative ballot amendments, these are largely what used to be considered common sense ballot measures and ballot amendments, and I do think it will quite likely have a positive impact uh on what happens in some of these elections.
SPEAKER_02If I could
Third Party Voting And Incremental Change
SPEAKER_02get you guys to switch gears for a second and address another kind of objection, or not not necessarily an objection, it fits into the previous objections, but some of the course of action uh that that some people are gonna take. And it's the whole third party thing or are sitting out a particular race. Maybe they'll go in and vote on some races, but they're not gonna vote in a in a particular race. Um, and a lot of times you end up with a third party candidate that has zero chance of winning. They're literally polling at less than five percent, and and people feel like, well, that person is more like my positions, or they're they're a better person, but they don't meet the definition of uh out of Exodus, an able man such as Fear God, Men of Truth, hating covetous, they're not able, they're not capable. Um what do you say to someone to get them to understand the strategy, I guess, of of not throwing your vote and I know that that offends them when I say that, but throwing their vote away or or investing their vote in a in a bad way that's not going to pay off.
SPEAKER_00If I can jump into that, Rick, that's one of the big factors in this election. I was just looking at and and you know, the two-party system, and we're talking to people who might not like either party, but the overwhelming fact is that right now it's a two-party system. There's only a couple of of seats that would be independent. There's a House seat in the U.S. House that's independent, not Republican-Democrat. He caucuses with the Republicans. There's two U.S. Senate seats that are independent, but they caucus with the Democrats, Bernie Sanders out of Maine as well. So those two they're gonna be one of the two sides when they get there. Uh and that's just the way it is, because those two sides have the numbers. Until you get something that's going to be more substantial than a half a percent or two percent or three percent of the overall population, you you're you're in bad shape. And that's one of the things that's happening right now. But I was just looking at at the states in this election that have just about taken themselves out of the running as far as having any influence because they have all these internal battles. Now, scripture I use often is is out of Deuteronomy 7 and Exodus 23, where God says, talking about the promised land, he said, I will not give it to you all at once. I'll give it to you only little by little. And this is a long-term thing. And so if I want a big change, I'm not gonna get it all at once. I'm gonna have to work on it. And Rick, you said, even on education, we've been working on this thing 30 years, and we're we're at a place that 30 years ago I didn't imagine we could ever be. But now 30 years later, we're gonna see some phenomenal changes that will affect the nation over the next 20 years to come if we hold together that long. So s understanding that okay, I I may not like the system, but I'm not gonna be able to change it in one election. But what's happened is Colorado has Has just about taken itself out of any Republican influence. It's become a one-party state because they are they hate each other more than they hate the opposition. You know, they might be this guy's only 70% pro-life, and this one's 95%, and I can't be part of that. Well, the other guys are 0%. And so you've taken yourself out, and the same in Minnesota, uh, the same in North Dakota, Montana, California, New Jersey, those Republican parties dislike each other more than they dislike the Democrats, and that's a real hurt in this election. Doesn't mean we can't win. I still think we can. But that's part of the strategy of this thing, is you got to understand, it takes a while to convert people to your position. You didn't get to where you believe what you believed overnight. People had to talk to you and beat your head against the wall and argue with you and who knows what else. And it just takes that while to change the nation. Plus, you're fighting against an education system that's not going to be easy to change. And they've been indoctrinating people for a number of years now. So you you take the gains you can and you look at each election and say, how can I move forward a half a percent or one percent or whatever? And you just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. So I hope we can get some unified stuff going in this election that people get out of their mind that that one or two, three percent that they're fixed on, and get back to saying, hey, I'm gonna move the ball as far as I can down the court this election. I'm not gonna waste my vote, even if I say it's for conscience sake. I'm gonna do what I can to make progress. And that's that little by little strategy that God told his people when they were taking the promised land. He said, I'm not gonna give you the promised land all at once. I'm gonna give it to you little by little. There's too many giants there, too many big things you have to overcome. You couldn't handle them all at the same time. I'm gonna give it to you little by little, and that's the way politics works as well.
SPEAKER_02Couple
Races To Watch And Senate Control
SPEAKER_02of previews, uh, you guys, what would be the races that you're paying the most attention to? Um, not to take away from all of the all of the congressional races, obviously, but local races as well. And of course, all three of us will be on um election night doing coverage uh uh some some of the night at Victory and some of the night at Flashpoint. So election night we encourage everybody to watch there. But just between now and then, what would y'all say are kind of the top ones uh for you guys?
SPEAKER_00Well, the the ones that are rated the biggest toss-ups were the change and and these are all Senate races, and if these Senate races go down, we lose the ability to confirm any more judges. And if a Supreme Court justice comes up, we won't get a conservative on there because Senate will be Democrat hands, they'll can they'll control it. Uh in the last two years, Trump has put 52 federal judges on, confirmed by Republican Senate. They've been really good judges overall, and so that that stops if we lose the Senate.
SPEAKER_01Well, and and Dabrin, you're saying lose the Senate, this where is where in my mind it's a little interesting because currently there are 53 Republican senators and we might say, look, you could lose and go 50-50 because you still have JD Vance, but it makes a difference the ones that might lose, because if you lost a Lisa Murkowski, if you lost someone that was more moderate, you you haven't lost a really strong vote in a lot of situations. But if we lost a Ken Paxton to James Tallerico, that is a significant voice impact in the Senate. So I I think it's even interesting considering what losing the Senate might look like, which not to digress because I know we're almost out of time. Dad, there's a ton of congressional races where you and Chad have been working. I'm gonna be with Chad some next week. Uh and we have some friends like Steve Toth down uh the Houston area of Texas who is is running in an area that's been impacted by some of the redistricting in Texas. And so there's people that are are running uh for the first time for a congressional seat. Some of them will be interesting to see what happens in those positions, but then certainly you've Dad with some of those toss-ups where you guys are, there are some very close ones that could be very telling with maybe how the rest of the night's gonna go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's exactly right. And there's uh really about nine Senate seats that are seen as possible to flipping to toward Democrats. So Democrats could come out with the sizable lead in the Senate, or we could maintain what we've got or even increase what we've got. Um I I'm working my tell off to make sure we don't lose anybody in the Senate because I want those judges still coming through. I want to be able to confirm the nominees that Trump has, whether it be in cabinet level or anything else. I want to be able to take the people he's been doing good stuff with and keep moving them forward. So Senate's really where I'm looking. A house, man, those are it's hard to tell on those, and there's a lot of contested house races, but I think we can pull them both out if our people will show up, that's for sure.
Final Push And Voter Guide
SPEAKER_02Show up, everyone. Show up. Make sure you're voting and telling your friends and family about it as well. Find out more at Christian VoterGuide.com. That's Christian VoterGuide.com. Thanks so much for listening. You've been listening to the Wall Boulder Show.
