The WallBuilders Show
The WallBuilders Show is a daily journey to examine today's issues from a Biblical, Historical and Constitutional perspective. Featured guests include elected officials, experts, activists, authors, and commentators.
The WallBuilders Show
Stop Punishing Your Own Side - with Jordan Lorence
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You can feel it in election season: the temptation to vote with your emotions, sit out November, or “send a message” because your candidate lost a primary. We don’t sugarcoat the stakes here. When we treat the general election like a protest, we can end up empowering policies we strongly oppose and locking in consequences that last for years through courts, appointments, and executive power.
We also bring on attorney Jordan Lorence from First Liberty Institute to walk us through why the Democratic Socialists of America has so many constitutional conservatives alarmed. The issue isn’t just labels, it’s structure. We talk about checks and balances, separation of powers, federalism, the US Senate, the Electoral College, and why an independent Supreme Court is essential for protecting constitutional rights including religious liberty. If those guardrails disappear, minority rights get crushed under pure majority rule, and history shows that “more democracy” can quickly turn into something far darker.
Along the way, we get practical about how to think clearly when you don’t love the nominee, why a senator is part of a team vote, and why a governor can reshape an entire state through leadership and appointments. If you care about the Constitution, civic engagement, and biblical citizenship in modern America, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s tempted to sit out, leave a review, and tell us: what helps you vote strategically when you don’t like the options?
Welcome And Road Stories
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. Thanks for joining us on this Monday on the Wall Builder Show. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. And there's a lot of hot topics on the table to start the weekend or start the week because the weekend was so full of so many different things. And of course, uh all three of us guys still traveling all over the country. Tim and I got to see our friends Victor and Eileen Marks just for a few minutes this weekend. David, I don't know if y'all, if you got to visit with uh Victor at all this weekend, you were at the same event we were. Uh it was great to see so many conservative groups, by the way. I just want to say to uh people that are have been blackpilled and thinking, you know, we've lost a country or whatever, man, you have no idea how much hard work is going on on the ground in every community, all over this country, with so many wonderful, wonderful ministries. And when we get to with work with other ministries and be around them like that, I come home
The Cost Of Primary Grudges
SPEAKER_01encouraged. But I gotta tell you, I'm a little bit discouraged by the response of some of the folks in Colorado uh in the Republican primary, just like in Texas, guys. We're facing it with the Paxton race, the Cornyn people not coming over and supporting uh, you know, John Cornyn even supposedly saying Republicans need to be taught a lesson um in in some of these races. I mean, that never works. And then of course you've got people in Colorado not supporting Republicans, not supporting Victor Marx because their guy in the primary didn't win. So what do we say to people that are dealing with this across the country?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would say, first of all, that it's it's incredibly short-sighted. Uh that, you know, if we're thinking we're gonna teach Republicans a lesson in this, so so the idea of teaching Republicans a lesson is giving seats to to Muslims, to Marxists, to communists. Like what an idiotic position. And I understand that when when there's hurt feelings, when there's emotions involved, uh emotion is not always rational. I totally get that, but again, it's incredibly short-sighted. I I think it's people that are confusing, uh, you know, maybe this is like in their mind, hey, this is like Bush and Perot and Bill Clinton kind of scenario where, you know, maybe our side doesn't win, but you know, how much damage can the other side do? And the reality is, hey guys, the other side can literally do things to destroy this nation. If you don't remember, back up to when President Biden and under his administration, they opened up the southern border where they're literally importing you you could argue 10, 20 million votes. Uh now, obviously, we don't think that's gonna fully happen. President Trump has done an incredible job trying to not just close the border but enforce immigration and do things. But again, like this is what you have seen from a specific party from their ideology. When you look at the Democrats, Socialists of America, etc., that that literally want to remake, remold, abolish things of the constitution. This is not the lesson you want to teach Republicans. And by the way, if you want to teach Republicans a lesson, you do that in the offseason. You do that in the primary, you don't do that in the general where you're gonna forfeit the championship to teach somebody on your side a lesson. But to forfeit the championship, you literally are giving people that hate this country that don't believe in the difference between boys and girls. I think it's fine for boys to play in girls' sports or to go in the girls' locker rooms. I think it's okay for children who are being misled and propagandized into believing that somehow they're in the wrong body, that God didn't make them significantly special the way they are. I mean, like, go down the list when you have one side advocating max boosting the murdering of unborn children, and yet it's okay to give them power because you know we want to teach our side a lesson. Again, just as idiotic as can be, and it's short-sighted, and this doesn't mean that you have to agree with the candidates that you might ultimately vote for. No, you don't agree with them on everything, but we're not giving out a Valentine with our votes. We're we are making a move on a chessboard to try to prevent the least amount of damage and to do the most amount of good possible. So that's a little bit of my soapbox. But dad, yeah, you you were there this weekend where you and I actually we did get a picture with Victor and Eileen. Um, we gotta talk and encourage them a little bit. Uh and he's talked about the ground swell he's seeing uh the things that encourage him at his rallies that 70% of the people that show up are people that have not been active uh in voting. And so this is something that is definitely reaching in grassroots. But you know, Rick, as you mentioned, this is something that's real also in Texas, with a lot of people that were very strong in the Corning camp that don't like Ken Paxton. We have to be what
Thinking Past Feelings When Voting
SPEAKER_02Thomas Sole talked about. Don't be a stage one thinker. Don't just think about how I feel in the moment. Think a little longer term in stage two, stage three. Think down the road, what is this going to produce, or what is this gonna cost me based on this decision? And we have to be more strategic thinkers.
SPEAKER_00Let me jump in there. I mean, we're talking about two different races here. One's a race for governor, one's a race for U.S. Senate. And people need to understand that personality is not part of the U.S. Senate. That is one vote out of a hundred. The person you send there, they're gonna vote with a group or against that group. If you say I don't like Paxson, I'm gonna send Talarico as a message. What you have just done is you have just helped the other Democrats to move forward with their Democratic Socialist agenda and eviscerate every basic value we have. The senator does not make that much difference except as part of the group. Now, with Colorado, yeah, a governor makes a whole lot of difference. That's the chief executive officer. That's like uh electing a president for your state and to say, well, I'm gonna sit it out. I don't I don't like the way the primary. It's kind of like saying, you know, I'm a Baptist and I don't like Presbyterians, so I'm gonna vote for the Muslims and let the Muslims take over. That's crazy. You got 80% that you agree with and 20% you disagree with, and you're gonna hand it over to somebody that you agree with on 0%, and you're gonna hand it over to him. I mean, or or them. That's that's like suicide. That's that's really it's crazy stuff, and that's some of what we're seeing. You're voting against an agenda that is against everything you believe. You can't do that. Uh, America, this is a critical time for America, and you cannot sit this out because you don't like a personality involved. And again, remember you're not electing a personality. You'll see that with the ads, they'll spend tens of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions, but in the Senate, that's only one vote. It's a group that you're helping support, not an individual.
SPEAKER_01Well, like you guys are saying, I mean, it just using common sense. You're like, okay, maybe you don't like somebody that won the primary because of this or that. But but if you just do a heads-up comparison to the Democrat they're running against, in both the major cases we talked about, it's a significant difference. I mean, these are Democrats like Tal Rico in Texas and uh forget the guy's name in Colorado, uh uh Phil uh whatever his name is. Anyway, their records are horrific. I mean, pro-transgender stuff, abortion up to birth, I mean all kinds of horrible, horrible things. So it's not even close, it's not even a close call. It's really just an emotional decision to say, I just can't bring myself to vote for this person that I was so against in the primary. And all three of us have been there. I mean, how many times did we campaign against Cornyn and he ended up winning? And so we had to support him. And we didn't go support the Democrat because we were upset that he didn't win. And I could I mean, I I think about people that beat me in primaries. I mean, the two times I ran statewide for Supreme Court, I'd turn around and support the person that that beat me in that in that primary because the Democrat was was far, far worse. So there's a a lack of maturity, I think, in in this whole thing, and uh, and hopefully people are are waking up as we get closer to uh closer to the election. And of course, our our guest today, we're gonna talk about not only like uh the individuals, but like you were saying, David, the team, the whole team. And when you elect someone as governor, you they bring in a huge team, a lot of appointments, just like being president, a lot of people uh that do a lot of different things, and then of course, as U.S. Senator, the team who has the majority in the U.S. Senate is gonna be a um massive game changer, one way or the other. And so,
Why Teams Matter In Elections
SPEAKER_01guys, Jordan Lawrence will be with us from First Liberty. Now, typically, when we have First Liberty on, we're talking about a Supreme Court case. In this case, we're gonna be talking about the uh the Democrat Socialist of America.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Jordan Lawrence is an amazing guy. He's got really an unbelievable pedigree. He goes back to working with Mike Ferris at Homeschool Legal Defense Association for a number of years. And then he moved over to work with Jay Sekolo at American Center for Law and Justice for a number of years. Uh, then he moved over to work with Tim and Beverly Lay with Concerned Women for America for a number of years. I've known him with all these positions, and now he's um he was senior counsel for Alliance Defense Fund, ADF, and now he's working with First Liberty. So that's five absolutely amazing groups that he's been with over the years. He's got 40 some odd years of legal experience, so he's quite an amazing guy, going to have a really good insight, particularly looking at things like the Democrats, Socialists of America, who have a number of candidates running in this particular election. Uh, it's amazing that since 2019, DSA, which is just hardcore socialists, have elected over 250 officials, and they've got 222 running in this election this year. It's just unbelievable. Jordan Orange, our special guest. When we return, you're listening to the Wallboiler Show.
Where To Listen And Get Resources
SPEAKER_02This is Tim Barton for the Wallboiler Show, and I just want to make sure you know that you can listen to us wherever you go. If you get up in the morning, you do a workout, if you're mowing the grass in the afternoon, if you're driving somewhere, and you want the opportunity to get some insight into vocal realm from a historic, a constitutional, and a biblical perspective, hearing from incredible expert voices. We are on basically every platform that you can find. Whether it's Apple Music or iHeartRadio, Spotify, Podcast Index, Overcast, Pocket Cast, there's so many things. I don't even know what all of these are. But if you go to wallbuilders.show, you will find a list of all of the different places where you can listen to the program. And of course, if you already listen to the podcast, you know how to download a podcast, you know how to find that. We would encourage you to download the podcast so you can listen at your convenience. If you're not in the car, that's no problem. Download the podcast, take us with you on the road. We want to be an encouragement to you in your day. Go to wallbuilders.show to find out all the places where you can stream or download. Hey guys, this is Tim Barton from Wall Builders. I'm gonna let you know about a special landing page we have on the Wall Builders website. If you go to wallbuilders.com, there is a little box that says Wall Builders is celebrating 250 years of American freedom and independence. Click on that little box and it will take you to the landing page for 250 years of America. And on the landing page, there are several different little boxes you can click on. One of them is for events, it will let you know of some major events that are that are coming up that are going on that you can actually come and participate in. You can come here, my dad or I give speeches telling the stories about the birth of the nation, about the founding fathers, the faith connection in America. There's also a tab for resources that you can click on, and it will take you to lots of different speeches and sermons and documents and proclamations from the founding era. And then there's also a little tab that will take you to the wall builder store with lots of resources, all the things that maybe a hat you want to wear, shirt to wear, or other wall builders products to read. This is the place to go to celebrate 250 years.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Wall Builder
Jordan Lawrence On DSA Goals
SPEAKER_01Show. Thanks for staying with us. Jordan Orange with us from First Liberty. Great folks over there, always on the front lines. Jordan, thanks for coming on, man.
SPEAKER_03It's great to be here, Rick.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's uh it's it's it's all obviously for some people that haven't been paying attention, they may think our topic today sounds weird. Uh, we've maybe even joked about this in the past, but it looks like we literally have a choice between Republicans and communists. I mean, these people really do want to get rid of the Constitution. What are your thoughts on just how bold the Democrats socialists are getting?
SPEAKER_03Well, our our founder, Kelly Shackelford, recently wrote about this, and I wholeheartedly agree. And and the way to think about this, I think, is to understand the beauty of the Constitution designed by our uh the framers is checks and balances as well as federalism and separation of powers. Now that may sound abstract to you, but Justice Scalia has said our freedom is in the fact that we have checks and balances. And what the Democratic Socialists of America want to do is obliterate all of them. So they want to go from a house and a senate to just a house. They want to make the president uh not a coequal branch, but subservient to the big House of Representatives. They want the Supreme Court not to be a separate branch, but to be subservient to the wishes of the majority. And the framers understood that if we have just blanket majority rule, minority rights are going to be crushed. So that's why we have limited government checks and balances where the president can veto what Congress does, and Congress has to approve who's on the Supreme Court, but they don't pick who it is, that's the president. And Justice Scalia has said before he died what protects our constitutional rights like free exercise of religion is not necessarily only that they're written in the Bill of Rights, but that we have checks and balances to restrain the majority from violating those rights. And the Democratic Socialists just want to get rid of all of that. And I would add the Electoral College is another one that they want to get rid of. It it it's it is it is just a recipe for utter disaster what their uh platform uh advocates for.
SPEAKER_01Well, Jordan, so many things in there that that that we could talk about, but the court issue is the one
Courts Need Real Independence
SPEAKER_01that just kind of makes me chuckle. I mean, that's that's gotta be a little bit comical, especially for you guys that have been arguing before the Supreme Court for years. The left used to worship the court. I mean, that was where they got most of their policy changes from. And now all of a sudden they want to make a subservient. They don't like the decisions coming out, I guess.
SPEAKER_03And I I I cannot overstate how dumb that is. That we want as Americans to have an independent judiciary. Now, back in the 1960s with the Warren Court, they were they were they were just going off the rails with their crazy living constitutionalism. But the check and balance is for the people to elect a president and a Senate that will support candidates that interpret the Constitution the right way. And we've had that in President Trump, and President Trump has won some cases, and he's lost some cases. That is the quintessential classic example of an independent judiciary. That's exactly what we want to have. If we end up being like Venezuela, where they had uh the president that they they basically had the kind of socialist uh where the Supreme Court of the nation was subservient to the elected officials, then it's they're just rubber stamps. They're not an independent judiciary, and people lose respect for it. And and I I just think it is absolutely nutty. And plus, even people that are democratic socialists don't exactly all agree on what the right result is. What's the supreme what's the right result in this particular case or that particular case could differ even among the democratic socialists. So that's why you want to have the checks and balances. It is absolutely crazy for them to suggest. I do not, they to me, it is reckless and they have no understanding of what they're talking about and what they're gonna get. And it would be detrimental to our republic as well as their even their own agenda. Uh if they can just replace people they don't like, who's gonna respect that? Sorry, I'm getting a little heated about this. No, I hear you, of course.
SPEAKER_01It's what you do. I mean, yes, do you think they are just throwing out the craziest ideas they can to gin up a base or to to rile people up? I mean, it doesn't even seem like when you watch their interviews, sometimes they thought this stuff through. Because sometimes when you I've watched these interviews where people will throw this stuff back at them and they just like it look like a deer and caught in the headlights, right? Or do you think they are, you know, do they genuinely want these things?
SPEAKER_03Well, I I think that they're I this is my impression, I could be wrong. I think they genuinely want these things and don't realize how foolish they are. The book of Proverbs says Solomon wrote that he who rolls a stone will have a stone rolled back on him. He who digs a pit will fall into it. And he who rolls a stone will have a stone rolled back on them. And and I think that they don't realize that the Supreme Court will not be a respected body if it's viewed as a political hack just doing the will of elected officials. That uh that when the elected officials are doing something wrong, it will not be a check and balance. Because either they're just gonna rubber stamp whatever the bad guys in the in the one legislative body are doing, or when they oppose them, the legislative body will put the hammer down and replace them with justices who are yes men and yes women. And that just unconscionable. Uh and and uh and I think they're very selective because we run through the cases. If they say, well, we don't like that they reverse Roe v. Wade, and they they said the president uh and that happens to be Trump right now, uh gets all this executive power. They've forgotten. President Trump has lost on uh the tariffs, uh he's lost on birthright citizenship. And whatever you think about those issues, whether you made the right thing, it is showing the vitality of an independent judiciary. And that's exactly what we want under our constitution. And if we don't like it, we'll change, we'll change Congress and the president to get a Supreme Court we want.
SPEAKER_01Well, and speaking of uh of even the congressional piece, like to hear them say abolish the Senate or
Why The Senate And Electoral College Exist
SPEAKER_01some of these crazy things, I mean, radical uh remaking of of what has been the you know, well, Madison would say the worst form of government, other than every other one. We would say absolutely the best example of a constitutional republic the world has ever known. And so they want to rat, I mean, this is this this is tinkering around, they're talking about here. This is radical changes.
SPEAKER_03And see, and I think they have to realize that the the beauty and wisdom of the Constitution was to put these anti-majoritarian checks and balances in, like the Electoral College and the fact that every state has equal representation in the U.S. Senate, so that you do not get one dominating regional interest dictating who's president and what goes on uh what what gets what laws get passed by Congress. Because if a president all they have to do is run in New York City and Los Angeles and Chicago, you're gonna get a very different president. And also, and if it's just a unibody that's majority, those types of areas, those urban blue areas, are gonna be the ones dictating everything to for the whole nation. And that's why you have these restraints in to stop it. And then what I think is crazy right now, the ten smallest states in the Union have there's equal numbers of Democratic and Republican senators right now. You know, Vermont, Wyoming, you know, Rhode Island, uh, you know, these other states, New Hampshire, it's all balanced out right now. So the system is working. And for them to say we're gonna throw that all out to me is just crazy.
SPEAKER_01Jordan, but what do you think the impact has been so far? I mean, a lot of this has gone viral, a lot of people are hearing about it. Do you think it moves the needle in the elections at all?
SPEAKER_03Well, I sure hope it does, because I I think you know, and this is I think the crucial turning point will be how educated are the average American voters to understand this? It was like when the Federalist and the Anti-Federalist papers were written, they were written like op-eds in a newspaper for the common person to read and understand. And and they went through all these things about the importance of checks and balances. Do people understand it? And rather than, yeah, that pesky Senate and uh, you know, Electoral College, that's unfair. The Supreme Court, they don't do whatever we want. We we want yes men and all those positions and and just to knock out all the restraints. I hope there's enough people who are voting for these senators that are advocating this and Congress, uh, members of Congress, uh the candidates for Congress that are advocating this craziness that they will be voted down. Because if they become in power and vote this, it is going to be the the people are going to regret because those who roll a stone will have a stone roll back on them. And they've got to understand that that's what's gonna happen. It's not gonna be nirvana or utopia if they get all those, if they kick out all those restraints.
SPEAKER_01Amen. So well said. So well said. Jordan Lawrence, appreciate you guys at First Liberty. Y'all keep up the great work. Folks can go sign up for your emails, donate at the website, firstliberty.org. We appreciate y'all. Thanks, Jordan. Thank you. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Bart.
SPEAKER_02Okay, we want to let you know about a new product we have here at Wall Builders called Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honor, the Signers of the Declaration. Like most Americans, you might be someone that you recognize some of the names of the Founding Fathers, but do you know their story? We want to help remedy that. My dad and I have written biographies on all 56 signers of the Declaration to help reintroduce people to the men who literally sign their names on the line for the sake of the nation. When they This they knew that they were essentially signing their death warrants, they were risking everything for the hope that they might be able to purchase freedom for the rising generation with their lives, their fortunes, and sacred honors. In spite of the hardship that every one of them endured, none of them recant or backed away. Now, if you don't know their story, you can get to know all 56 of them. Go to wallbuilders.com and look for the book Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honor, the signers of the Declaration.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Wall Builder Show.
Biblical Citizenship Class And Next Steps
SPEAKER_01Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Jordan Lawrence. Thanks to First Liberty for obviously the legal work that they do, but also even in this case, the commentary about what's happening in this in this election. And guys, I know every candidate that's a that's a Democrat this year is not necessarily part of Democrat Socialists for America, but they are empowering the Democrat Socialists for America if they get elected, because again, it's their team. It's the it's the it's the um it's the agenda that they're all gonna end up pushing for. And when even Bill Maher and James Carville and some of these longtime Democrats are saying, this is too much crazy for me, then you know this is getting way out there on the left.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, when when they're saying literally we want to remove all the checks and balances, I mean, like just what we heard about on the interview, right? They don't believe in the separation of powers, they don't believe in the checks and balances, they they want to abolish the Supreme Court as it's known. They they would literally remove the Electoral College, literally remove the Senate. They want to move to a pure democracy. And when you have nations that are pure democracies, they do not say democracies, they move to dictatorships. That's the reality of how it works. It's why the founding fathers did not create a democracy, they created a constitutional republic. And people often get confused because they say, wait a second, but we all get to vote. Yes. It's it's a democratic process of electing our officials, but uh the fact that we are electing officials to represent, that's not how a republic works. And the officials we choose are bound by law, the constitution. So we are a constitutional republic where we have elections, but by the way, in the elections, it's not just the will of the majority, the way that we understand it, because you actually do have to be a U.S. citizen. Uh, you actually that there there are some parameters that we do put around what how the voting process happens and who's actually legally allowed to vote. And also, by the way, this is where the Democrat Socialist America even disagree. And I don't have time to get into this a lot, but all of these things are why it matters that we show up and vote. And uh guys, I know we are almost out of time, but Rick, I I don't want us to uh overlook the reality that there's also something else really fun happening tonight that you are kicking off tonight after I think you're on Flashpoint uh tonight from uh 7-8 Central Time. And then as soon as that's over, hey, hey Rick, what's happening uh at the end of Flashpoint when that's over?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for especially for those of you that'll be watching, we'll remind you right at the end of Flashpoint uh to just get online and join us for Biblical Citizenship in Modern America. This is gonna be a huge national class. So people from all over the country are joining us online together. We're gonna go through the course together, and each week we'll have a lot of the different friends of Patriot Academy and Wall Builders with us. Uh the tonight it'll be uh some of the Flashpoint folks. Uh, we'll have our iVoter guide friends next week. Of course, uh David Tim will be joining us on some of these. We've got First Liberty. Actually, since we had Jordan today, we'll have uh hopefully Kelly in in a couple of weeks as well. So it's just a great time to come together with people across the country for the last four Mondays of the election to be reminded what we're fighting for, why it's so important, and then for the four weeks after the election, we'll be talking about whatever happens in the election. Here's the next steps, and here's how we apply uh apply this biblical citizenship in uh in modern America. So yeah, looking forward to that. PatriotAcademy.com. If you just go to the main website, there'll be a banner there where you can sign up and uh get the links to jump on with us at eight o'clock central. That's uh six o'clock over on the west coast, and then yep, a little bit late for the folks on the east coast. We'll start at nine o'clock with the folks on the east coast.
SPEAKER_02Well, one of the things that uh I also had on my list to mention today, uh we don't have time today, so some hopefully tomorrow we can get to it. Uh I I mentioned to you guys something that happened at Cowboy Stadium uh over the weekend that if people don't know, uh I would encourage you to look it up, check it out. You will be so encouraged that Cowboy Stadium was filled with Christians over the weekend. When I mean filled, I mean filled. 80,000 plus people there for a time of prayer, asking for God to forgive the nation, repentance revival. Like guys, we talk so often that God is on the move, incredible things are happening. Uh, so tomorrow, I definitely want to highlight it. It's so encouraging what happened this weekend in in Cowboy Stadium.
SPEAKER_01Definitely we will. Thanks for listening today, folks. Be sure and join us tomorrow for that. You've been listening to the Wallboarder Show.
