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Separating Freemason Myths From Founding Facts
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The internet loves a secret backstory, especially when it can slap a scary label on the Founding Fathers. We take one of the most common claims head-on: “The founders were Freemasons, so America wasn’t really built on biblical values.” Instead of trading hot takes, we walk through what the historical record actually shows, why the numbers are often exaggerated, and why membership claims are not the same thing as real influence.
We also dig into the example everyone brings up, George Washington. Yes, he had a documented Masonic connection, but the question is what that looked like in practice. We compare the popular narrative to the recorded reality, including Washington’s own words about how rarely he attended lodge. Then we address the Washington, D.C. design rumors, including the “pentagram in D.C.” storyline, and explain why late-blooming claims without early evidence should raise your skepticism.
From there, the conversation shifts into modern policy and civic responsibility. We discuss the Texas law requiring age verification to download apps and ask whether it’s government overreach or a reasonable way to help parents protect kids from exploitation and grooming. Finally, we respond to a question about the Save Act and why Senate leaders don’t bring bills up when the votes aren’t there yet.
If you care about Freemasonry and the Founding Fathers, George Washington’s faith, Washington D.C. conspiracy claims, parental rights online, and limited government that actually functions, this one is for you. Subscribe, share it with a friend who loves a good history debate, and leave a review so more people can find the show.
Welcome And Listener Questions
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us today on the Wall Builder Show. It's Foundations of Freedom Thursday, which means you get to ask the questions. Be sure and send those in to us at radio at wallbuilders.com. That's radio at wallboulders.com. It can be a question about the constitution, history, application of biblical principles to whatever's going on in the culture. Whatever you got, send it to us, radio at wallboulders.com.
Are The Founders Freemasons
SPEAKER_02Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton and toss in the first question to them. It comes from Brian. He said, I'm a teacher of U.S. history, and I use all of the wall builders' materials as my basis. And I'm using Constitutional Live in my civics class. I have a question that I don't know how to answer well. How do we combat this idea that the founders were Freemasons? I know that the Masons have changed since the founding era, but I am looking for a good answer or resource from you guys that I can use to study this idea further. I look forward to hearing what you have to say about this topic. Love you guys, and you are all prayed for immensely. Thanks for all for your time and all that you do, Brian. Hey, Brian, thank you, man. First of all, for the prayers, thank you for uh the encouragement and thank you for using all the wallboulder's materials in your classes. Uh it just so happens, and and we don't talk about this one a lot. So I know a lot of our listeners don't know, David, that you wrote an entire book on this subject about Freemasonry and the Founding Fathers. So I don't know if you want to just answer this off the top of your heads, guys, but we definitely want to re um, you know, at least uh point people to the book that's available on the website.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'll do a quick commercial because if you get that book, it's gonna answer tons of the questions. It was a pretty deep dive at a time when this is a really odd thing in America. So the history of Masonry has not changed over time. That stuff still holds. So for people who are interested in seeing more about this, and it seems to be a regrowing issue right now, go back and get that book, The Question of Freemasonry and the Founding Fathers, and will help answer a lot of this from a historical standpoint.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, David, that the book is available at the website. It's called The Question of Freemasonry and the Founding Fathers, and I do encourage people to read the whole book. That was a game changer for me. I know when you came out with the book, there was so much there. I had just heard all these things about the Masons, heard all these things about the Founders, and it just dispelled all the rumors and gave the facts, and it's a very different picture than what I thought with regard to the Founding Fathers.
SPEAKER_01Well, guys, one of the things, too, that is a quick and easy resource, uh, we have an article. It actually just went live uh in the last couple of days. It's called Freemasonry in the Founding Era. Uh essentially, Dad, we took some of the research that you'd already done. Uh, we took some of the uh current claims and accusations, and we synthesized it. So the article, we just have five quick facts to know about some of these claims. So, uh, Brian or anybody else looking, this would be a quick, easy place to go. Uh, Dad, the book does have a little bit of a deeper dive, but on a high level, um, the five things to know about uh Freemasonry in the founding era, number one, relatively few of the founding fathers were Freemasons. We go through kind of uh percentages and point out that on the highest claim level possible, it was one in six of the signers of the declaration. It was one in four of the signers of the constitution. And those are the claims, the highest level possible claims. Now we go on to point out uh, number two, is even among the few founders who were Freemasons, uh, Freemasonry did not exert significant influence on their thinking or behavior. And part of what we point out is when people are like, well, this guy was a Freemason, and we're like, hang on a second. Uh, for example, uh John Dickinson, a signer to the Constitution, uh, he became a Mason on January 11th, 1780. But his membership was followed by this notation in the Masonic Records, never since appeared in Lodge. So was John Dickinson a Mason? Yes. Uh, did he attend lodges? No, he never went back after he joined declaration signer. William Hooper became a Freemason. Um, but the lodge to which he was a member ceased to exist, and there's never been found a record of his attending any other lodge. Constitution signer James McHenry became a Freemason on May 21st, 1806. But his entry in the records is followed by this notation, struck off in 1809. So to be clear, he joined in 1806, and 1809 it says he struck off. And this is kind of the point is that some people are like, Well, these guys were Freemasons. Well, very few of them actually were Freemasons percentage-wise. And then many of those that were Freemasons, they were not active Freemasons, they very rarely attended
How Active Was Washington Really
SPEAKER_01lodge. But then you do have some pretty famous guys, like George Washington, who was a Freemason. And this, of course, is where there's the famous painting of Washington in the Masonic Apron. And people would go, Yeah, but guys, George Washington was a Freemason. In fact, when uh I was on the the Josh Howerton podcast earlier this summer, and I was talking about Washington being a Christian, uh, there were there was a couple clips they did for social media, uh, and and one of the top comments of people kind of critical of this idea that George Washington was a Christian, they said, Well, he couldn't have been a Christian because he was a Mason. He was a Freemason, therefore he's not a Christian. That was the claim. But here's why like some of these things are a little silly. George Washington joined a Masonic Lodge in 1752. Well, in the time, as William Adrian Brown was a librarian at the George Washington Masonic Memorial in Alexandria. So, uh, of the people that think about George Washington as a Mason, this was a librarian of that memorial. And this person, William, did a chronological list of George Washington's life's activities and identified that Washington only ever participated in 14 Masonic activities during his 47 years of quote unquote being a Freemason. So 14 activities that you participated in, and that's not, by the way, including or that's not specifically saying those were all lodge events, because uh Mark Talbert, who is the director of the Museum of Collections at the George Washington Masonic National Memorial, he identified that Washington only ever attended 10 lodge meetings in 47 years. Now, just to give context, that that that would be like if somebody uh somebody's grandma uh is a devout Christian and like is gonna take the family to church. Like every Christmas you go see grandma, and we're taking the family to church. There could be an atheist kid in that family, and that atheist kid went to church with grandma in 47 years more times than George Washington attended a Masonic Lodge, and this idea that we would say, Well, you know, if an atheist went to church 10 times in 47 years, they clearly were a Christian influenced by Christianity. We'd be like, Yeah, I don't think that really had a big influence on their life. That would be the equivalent of George Washington only attending a lodge meeting 10 times in 47 years. Now, the article on the website, we we have a few more details on that, uh, highlighting where uh George Washington was far more known as a Christian than he was for anything else. In fact, uh that at one point there was uh somebody that uh wrote to George Washington and the Reverend G. W. Snyder and and was concerned about uh the the Freemason's influence and what was happening over in France. And he wrote Washington, he said, Hey, I heard you're a Freemason. This really bothers me what's happening in France. And George Washington wrote him a letter back and he says, I need to correct an error you have run into of my presiding over the English lodges. Now, this is the quote. I need to correct an error you have run into of my presiding over the English lodges in this country. The fact is, I preside over none, nor have I been in one more than once or twice within the last 30 years. So George Washington, right, while he is president, is acknowledging, like, bro, you're saying that I've I've been a leader in this Masonic Lodge and I'm an active participant. I've I've never been the leader you're you're thinking I was, and I've only been once or twice in 30 years. And again, I say this for context. George Washington is one of the guys that we're we all agree, like, oh yeah, George Washington was a Mason. However, what does that mean? Again, this is like someone, if you go to church 10 times in 47 years and you're like, I'm a devout Christian, I'd be like, I think you've misunderstood some of what that means. Again, George Washington was far more identified as a Christian than he was as a Mason.
D.C. Design Claims And Bible Influence
SPEAKER_01Um, point number four in the article is there's no evidence of Masonic influence and the design of Washington, D.C. We go through some of that and why that's kind of a silly bogus claim. Today people say uh that you know, Washington, D.C. was laid out and you have the pentagram in DC. Uh, people like Candace Owens make this claim. It's it's super dumb and silly because that claim did not originate until 1980, and there is not a single piece of any historic evidence where anybody, even from Masonic Lodge, is talking about this prior to 1980. That's when that claim first appears in the 1980s. And the last thing is that the Bible was the primary influence in the founding fathers. We go through some of that, and it's just a contrast, like this idea that America was birthed on the the influence of the Masonic Lodge and by Freemasons, as opposed to the influence of Christianity in the Bible, it's really kind of silly. So, uh, in addition to that book, The Question of Freemasonry and the Founding Fathers, there is a shorter article on the website, Freemasonry in the Founding Era, that'll just walk you through some of these bullet points and add some of these quotes and details, etc. So I would say both of those are really good resources. And especially if you want to share with somebody a quick, easy read. This article from the website is an easy way to kind of gain a little more contextual understanding for some of the claims being made about Freemasonry in the founding era.
Conspiracies Versus Today’s Spiritual Fight
SPEAKER_00Yeah, guys, if I can add something in here as well. Back when we did the book a number of years ago, we did a deep dive. Tim, what you've done is taken all the current kind of claims out there and answered them and retweeted them. And I I'm just gonna go back to something. I don't know why we respond to conspiracies the way they do, but even back when I did this book years ago, I remember Isaiah 8 12, where God says to Isaiah, don't call conspiracy everything this people call conspiracy. Don't fear what they fear, don't dread what they dread. And my question is, what difference does it make? And I I'm just going to throw uh just a thought out there. What if indeed Washington, D.C. is laid out Masonically, does that change what the White House means or does, or what the Capitol means? Does it does it affect me wash visiting Washington, D.C.
SPEAKER_01Well, Dad, Dad, one thing with that is if acknowledging that the Masonic Lodge, and we talk about this in the book and in the article, the Masonic Lodge became very anti-Christian in the 1800s. And so if people looked and they're like, but this is demonic. Like there's some really evil stuff, well, then it could make a difference as a Christian if you go there, because that means you need to cast out some devils. But I would say we probably already need to do that anyway. Like, have you been in Washington, D.C. recently? There's spiritual warfare, like for sure you need to cast out the devil. But Dad, I think to your point, it doesn't change the reality that even if there was a Masonic influence, which is it's it was not what people claim that there's virtually no Masonic influence the way it's claimed today. And it was not any kind of prevailing influence. There were some Masons, but they were not the prevailing leaders of the nation in Masonic ways. And again, this is where people point to George Washington as being this incredible leader. He was a Mason, and we'll point out, wait a second, no, like by the historic records and in his own acknowledgement, he was not hardly involved at all in Masonic lodges or any activities. So this idea that even George Washington, the father of the nation, was guided more by uh Masonic beliefs than by the Bible was totally inaccurate, on top of the fact the Masons became uh increasingly anti-Christian, like proudly very anti-Christian after the founding era. But uh that to your point, I I understand what you're saying, but I think there's people that would go, well, yeah, it's a major deal because it means there's there's all this demonic stuff there. Well, it would be a major deal in the way we respond to it today, saying we need to change this demonic acceptance or presence or whatever else, although that's not really what happened. But there's a spiritual war, regardless of if it was the Masons or the Progressives or the Marxists or the Communists and Socialists that are there now. So I I I I I'm saying that because I think some people would go, yeah, it is a major deal, but I think the point you are wanting to communicate is it doesn't diminish the reality of what God has done in this nation or what we want God to do in the future of this nation. Is that right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I would add to that, just following the same thing you said, is that look, anywhere there is a center of influence, there's going to be lots of demonic activity. Scripture tells us Ephesians, we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against wickedness and wicked spirits in high places and rulers of darkness. And that's going to be over every place of government that there is a capital, the national capital and every state capital. In Austin, that's the big one for us in Texas. In Oklahoma City, big one for you guys in Oklahoma. Anywhere you've got power, you've got a lot of spiritual warfare going. And I'll also point out anywhere you have a university of learning, there is massive, massive spiritual warfare going there. Because you're talking about the next generation, how they get influenced, what they learn, if you can twist their minds, then you've got allies from the next generation. Anywhere you've got influence, you're going to have spiritual warfare. There is just no way around that. And so that's the other thing. Washington, D.C., I mean, that's not the spiritual warfare I'm worried about is what the Masonics, what the Masons might have done 200 years ago. I'm worried about what's going on today with all the groups that are there that have such vast influence over Congress, whether it be the pro-abortion industry or the LGBTQIA plus industry or anything else. I mean, you got a ton of spiritual warfare going anywhere you have a place of influence, including over vast churches that have influence over their communities. There's spiritual warfare going against them as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's a really good point, is there's always going to be a demonic force that you have to oppose. As Christians, we're supposed to oppose evil. Uh, we're supposed to walk in the light and reject the darkness. But but dad, I do think for some people, if they thought, you know, if if we looked back and somebody thought that the founding fathers were like a version of an Adolf Hitler who did evil things and wrote the Constitution, then I think in their mind that would discredit some of uh the significance and value and the God interaction of the Constitution. And so I would first of all want to alleviate and say, look, like the Founding Fathers were not guided by any kind of Masonic Laj and Temple, the way that it's portrayed today. Uh and again, we go through a lot of that in the book and even this very briefly in this article, just kind of a high level. So I I that's not a concern people should have because it's not rooted in truth. It's it's a little bit like when the 1619 project said that America was birthed on slavery. Was there slavery in America? Yes. Was that what America was birthed on? No. That's the same argument with like some of this free Freemason stuff. Was there Freemasons? Yes. Was it the prevailing influence? No. And it wasn't even close. It's been overstated just like the 1619 project did in just butchering their presentation of American history. But I say this because I know there's people that would be incredibly concerned that you're not being flippant toward what could have been a demonic influence in early America, saying, you know, well, the Masons, and again, that's not really what you're saying. I just want to make sure that nobody listening takes that and he's like, Well, you said it's not a big deal. If like demonic Masons did something, that's not what you're saying. But you're pointing out that there's always going to be a demonic force that uh there's light is always going to battle darkness. Good is always and should always battle evil in the spiritual realm, uh, sometimes in the legislative realm, right? That the realm of ideas and worldviews, there's always going to be conflict. And we should be far more attentive to the conflict happening today than we are fabricating things, creating more than what was there, or or trying to uh to put something in a bigger contrast and controversy than what it actually was. And again, that's why you wrote the book. That's why we have this article up, trying to make it easy for people. Um, there are major problems happening in the nation, but it's not that America was founded on a Masonic lodge and that worldview and ideology. No, the major problem of the nation today is that the devil is opposing anything good, godly, righteous from the light. And that's where we have to be far more attentive to what's going on, be active, engaged, courageous leaders combating this evil. But go back and answer this question. There's again the book on the website, The Question of Freemasonry and the Founding Fathers. I think it's also available on Amazon. And then there's the article Freemasonry in the Founding Era. If you go to Wall Builders, there's a search bar. You can type in Freemasons and it'll pull up. Um, or you can just type in on a search engine Freemasonry in the Founding Era, and this article will pop right up. Uh, and again, those five points, there's uh some information under each one. It's a footnote, so you can go back and check, get some more details if you want it, or get that book. Uh, but the quick and easy answer is the influence of Freemasonry has been vastly overstated for its influence in America.
Signers Book And Faith In Public
SPEAKER_02All right, guys, quick break. We'll be back with more questions when we return. You're listening to the Wall Boilder Show.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we want to let you know about a new product we have here at Wallbuilders called Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honor, The Signers of the Declaration. Like most Americans, you might be someone that you recognize some of the names of the Founding Fathers, but do you know their story? We want to help remedy that. My dad and I have written biographies on all 56 signers of the Declaration to help reintroduce people to the men who literally sign their names on the line for the sake of the nation. And when they did this, they knew that they were essentially signing their death warrants. They were risking everything for the hope that they might be able to purchase freedom for the rising generation with their lives, their fortunes, and sacred honors. In spite of the hardship that every one of them endured, none of them recant or backed away. Now, if you don't know their story, you can get to know all 56 of them. Go to wallbuilders.com and look for the book Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honors, the signers of the Declaration. This is Tim Barton from Wall Builders with another moment from American history. Many today assert that religion is something private, that it has no place in the public square, and that it is incompatible with government. But the Founding Fathers believed exactly the opposite. They held that religion was absolutely necessary in order to maintain our free system of government. For example, John Adams declared, We have no government armed with power, capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. In Steiner of the Declaration, Benjamin Rush similarly affirmed, without religion, there can be no virtue, and without virtue, there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object in life of all Republican governments. The Founding Fathers understood that limited government required public morality from the people, and that public morality was produced by the Christian religion. For more information about the Founding Fathers' views on religion and public life, go to wallbuilders.com.
Texas App Age Verification Debate
SPEAKER_02We're back here on the Wall Builder Show. Thanks for staying with us on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Angela's up next. She said, Do you think the Texas law requiring age verification to download apps is consistent with the founder's vision for a free country? I think the state is overstepping its jurisdiction because parents should be the ones monitoring their children's phone and app access without the state, quote, helping. It also increases government control monitoring of all citizens and allows a state, Texas state law to potentially affect the whole country. All right, David, Tim, this is actually there's a whole category of questions we could go to on this in terms of, you know, when does the state step in, when doesn't it? I know sometimes we want to lean to the no government ever on anything, but actually it's the proper role of government to keep evil things from the community. That's what civil liberty is is all about. It's it's infringed somewhat from natural liberty. Uh this topic I don't think we've covered, maybe we have. I just don't remember it in terms of where the line should be. What do you guys think?
SPEAKER_00Well, for me, I don't see this as government intrusion as much as I do parental empowerment. I think they're trying to empower parents here because parents have made really clear they don't like a lot of the stuff their kids get that they don't even know about. And so as an expression of what parents have said, there's so many times when the kids are away from the view of the parents and the parents aren't able to unless you homeschool and have them with you all the time, you really can't see what what they're going to, unless you're with their friends all the time, you can't see. And so this is saying, hey, there's certain websites that parents have made pretty clear they don't want their kids going to. And so you're gonna have to do some age verification before you can get into that because we think that that's not appropriate for a minor. Now, if i i in this sense I think they're just trying to help parents. I don't think they're trying to look for more things to do. And I'm not sure that this really does more any way to give the the government more intrusion. Uh it just it sits a boundary for for what the other services can do. So that's the way I look at it is is in that sense. I think they're trying to do what parents are are asking for help with, and that's keep this garbage away from my kids. And if I say yes, then that's one thing. But most parents are saying no to that garbage.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, David, I you know, it it is the it is the role of of government to to make sure that parents can uh stand in the gap and and and say no, and so there are times to empower parents with with these kind of things, and and we've certainly seen um you know a lot of support in Texas for this, but I think just from a you know, where's the libertarian kind of government don't do anything to what's the conservative view of limited government, but actually fulfilling a role, I would agree with you. I I think this one does not cross the line in the wrong direction. I think it's a it's a proper function of government here. Tim, what you think?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I agree with you guys. I I think because we are in a different era, you know, there was a time um when uh if we look back on on other issues where somebody was said, wait a second, the government can't tell us that, you know, we we can't drink alcohol until or we can't get married, we can't drive until we are I think there's a lot of things we could look back at and go, you know what? I mean, honestly, like who's the government to tell a parent that they can't have their kids driving at a certain age, or that they can't allow their kids to, you know, go marry or do whatever else at a certain age? Who's the government? And I think one of the things that we've kind of acknowledged is uh every society functions on some premise of morality and truth. And because we are in a place where we've had a breakdown of morality and truth, uh it's opened up for a lot of evil to exist. And also that the main point of government is to protect the citizens. The Bible talks about that the government bears a sword, it doesn't bear it in vain. And ultimately the Bible lays out that they're supposed to reward the righteous, punish the wicked. But part of the the context, even in that, is that you also need to protect the innocent. You protect the good. And and I think this is one of those actions that uh you certainly can have a larger debate about it, but I don't think it's crazy to have requirements on cell phones to say, you know what, we don't think an eight-year-old, now, by the way, I don't think as a parent, your eight-year-old, eight-year-old should have a cell phone with, you know, full capability, capacity, whatever else. Uh, I've got a couple kids and uh they have very limited screen time. It's uh, you know, a lot of oversight from mom and dad. But the bottom line is that if somebody said, we think, you know, that kids should have it, and then adults should be able to have access uh on whatever chat searches with these kids that they can groom them and influence them, we'd be like, No, that's crazy. We don't think adults should do that. Right. This is why this age verification is there, because there are evil people trying to exploit and do bad things to the kids. This is an effort to protect children, which is, I would argue, part of the role of government to protect their citizens, to protect the good and the innocent. And again, you could have a bigger libertarian argument about this, but I don't see without knowing all the details and nuance of maybe, you know, what kind of law to propose in different areas, but conceptually, I don't see a major problem with this. I I haven't thought through it uh entirely to to really have firm footing. So this is my initial response. But initially, I I feel like the role of government to protect its citizens, including its children, from bad guys who want to do evil things, that seems totally reasonable, rational, and actually the proper role of government.
SPEAKER_02Well, guys, we've got uh just a couple of minutes left. We probably can get this one in because it's fairly quick.
Save Act Vote Math And Wrap
SPEAKER_02And I think I know how y'all are probably gonna answer it. But uh this one comes from Dwight. John Thune is seemingly refusing to put the Save Act up for a vote. How hard is it to do a recall election in South Dakota? I'd think that if they'd start the petition now, he might change his tune.
SPEAKER_00What do y'all think? Uh if they started the petition now and he changed his tune, it wouldn't change the vote. The reason John Thune is not bringing it up is he does not have fifty votes, and that's what he needs because the vice president would vote with him. So he needs to come up out of the fifty-four senators, he needs to come up with fifty votes, and he does not have those votes yet.
SPEAKER_01Of the ones that identify as Republican, and maybe even John Fetterman, uh, he does not have 50 votes, just to clarify. Not 54 senators, 100 senators, but 54 potential that would vote for him. He doesn't have 50 that would.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you're exactly right, Tim. And I'm I meant to say Republicans. I said fifty-four. I was thinking fifty-four Republicans. There are 53 Republicans in the Senate, but he does not have the 50 votes he needs, even if he got Fetterman. And it wouldn't matter who was the leader of the Senate. He's not going to get those votes because they're just not there right now. That's one of the things we think this election will do is change at least three of those Republican centers with improvements, but we'll see what that means after the election.
SPEAKER_02Well, folks, we are out of time for questions today. You can send those into radio at wallbuilders.com, and we'll get to more of them next Thursday. Don't forget tomorrow's Friday, so we got Good News Friday coming your way to lead you into the weekend with some optimistic outlook of some of the good things that have happened over the last few weeks. Thanks for listening today. You've been listening to the Wall Builder Show.
