Welcome And Show Framework

SPEAKER_03 0:07

This is the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the Wall Builder Show. Thanks so much for joining us today. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton, and we're taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Two websites to remember wallbuilders.show for all the radio programs, and then wallbuilders.com for everything else, including great tools for your family, some cool swag, all of our programming, and for pastors to get tied into one of our pastors' briefies at DC, or for students to come to some of our programs, teachers, you name it, it's all there at wallbuilders.com. Guys, Troy Miller with us later in the program. Of course, we know Troy from uh National Religious Broadcasters and used to be over at the uh TV station for National Religious Broadcasters, running it now. And they got a big conference coming up in uh January, February.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

So we're gonna talk about that today.

The York Jersey And Unity Story

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Well, and speaking of conferences, guys, we've been on the road a lot. The last uh I I really, I guess, probably since the beginning of the year. Uh, but Rick, I know you and I this uh last week were on the road. I think you were in California. Uh I think. Uh we crisscrossed, I think. We're in the air. Yes. Yeah, you were leaving as I got there at the turning point faith event. Uh, but I I would this this Friday and Saturday, I was up in uh Pennsylvania. I was doing a a conference uh connected with Turning Point at Freedom Life Church. Um really great people, a lot of friends up there, uh Rob McCoy, um uh Chloe, uh just uh Pastor Sam, a lot of names that we would probably uh collectively, internally, and we know friends. Um, but somebody I did not expect to meet. And I I was debating if I should save this for Good News Friday, and I I I couldn't really save it for Good News Friday. Um so Rick, uh can you tell what in general I'm holding up?

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Definitely a baseball jersey, I think. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

And I I asked that knowing you would be the guy to spot the baseball jersey. Yes, this is a baseball jersey. Uh it is York on the front. Uh, do you remember we had a Good News Friday program a couple weeks ago? I do. With a baseball team that on whatever kind of Pride night it was, and they were gonna have to wear, you know, the rainbow gay flag uh on their sleeve. There's 26 players in the team. Twenty-three of them said they would not play if they had to wear the flag, and therefore uh they ended up forfeiting the game. At a time they were in in third place, and people were like, Look, this seems like a bad move, even if you have principles, because uh you're competing in a league and you can't forfeit. Well, I can tell you, uh they're they're now in first place. Uh, but what was super cool, I did not expect to meet meet uh this weekend was a man named Greg Lloyd, who happens to be the chaplain for that baseball team, who happens to be the guy. Now, he takes no credit for this. He uh he said he told us and he had a couple guys come to him say, Hey, you know, Greg, what do you think? Because he's also a pastor, by the way. Uh, he also works uh in the league, but they came to him and said, Hey, Pastor, what do you think? Um uh, you know, about us having these convictions and not wanting to play. And so in chapel, he talked about it. And he had uh nearly the whole team there, he said, you know, guys, if you do something, if you do it by yourself, if you look at a single snowflake, you go, man, that snowflake's not gonna do much. Two snowflakes doesn't do much, but you know, they're in Pennsylvania. He says, But when you get a bunch of snow and it piles up together, they can close down roads. There's power if there's unity. So you just need to pray about it. And if there's unity, do it. And if there's, I mean, he said, I didn't tell them to do it. I said, if you want to, I'm not saying you need to. If you don't, nonetheless, I gotta meet him. Uh, and it was super fun because somebody said, Hey, you know, Tim talked about you guys on radio. So that was on Friday. The next day he came and said, Hey, somebody said you might like a t-shirt of the team. And I thought, why would I give you a t-shirt? Let me give you an official. This is actually a jersey that's awesome. MLB player wore because they're one of the teams that uh when guys get cut from MLBs or one of the miners, they come down here to like rehab, refresh uh off an injury and then go back up. And so this is literally uh the jersey of a guy that played on their team. But just, I mean, so cool. First of all, that there was people in Pennsylvania listening to the program that made the connection that, you know, I get to beat this chaplain. All this to say is we're talking about today with Troy Miller, the national religious broadcasters, and the impact that media can have and those voices. I'm just so grateful for the people out there that listen to this program, that are partnering with us in all kinds of ways, but then certainly even helping make these connections, introducing me to the chaplain. And then I got an actual York Revolution jersey out of the deal. Just so, so cool. Uh, so thank you, Chaplain Greg, who's also a pastor, uh, for getting me that jersey. But guys, just one of the really cool things being able, as we travel and meet so many people, we hear so many stories and testimonies, and and we don't get a chance to share them all in the air. We talk about them a lot to each other. Some of the people that tell us the impact of the program or the stories, the encouragement. Uh, but it was really cool in Pennsylvania up at Freedom Life Church to be able to connect with chaplain Greg Lloyd of the York uh Revolution baseball team and get a jersey out of the deal. So uh thank you, chaplain and Pastor Greg. Super cool.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Only, only the York Revolution team would be appropriate to talk about on wall builders. I mean, how much more perfect could you get in the 250th for us to talk about on the wall builders program? All right,

WallBuilders 250 Years Resources

SPEAKER_03 5:42

guys, we gotta take a quick break when we come back. Troy Miller will be with us. You're listening to the Wall Builder Show.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Hey guys, this is Tim Barton from Wall Builders. I want to let you know about a special landing page we have on the Wall Builders website. If you go to wallbuilders.com, there is a little box that says Wall Builders is celebrating 250 years of American freedom and independence. Click on that little box and it will take you to the landing page for 250 years of America. And on the landing page, there are several different little boxes you can click on. One of them is for events, it will let you know of some major events that are that are coming up that are going on that you can actually come and participate in. You can come here, my dad or I give speeches, tell them the stories about the birth of the nation, about the founding fathers, the faith connection in America. There's also a tab for resources that you can click on, and it will take you to lots of different speeches and sermons and documents and proclamations from the founding era. And then there's also a little tab that will take you to the wall builder store with lots of resources, all the things that maybe a hat you want to wear, a shirt to wear, or other wall builders products to read. This is the place to go to celebrate 250 years.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Welcome

Troy Miller And NRB Growth

SPEAKER_03 6:53

back to the wall builder show. Thanks for staying with us. Troy Miller with us. Always good to have Troy on. It's been way, way, way too long. Uh running NRB, running all the things that you do. We appreciate your time, man. Thanks. Oh no, it's great to be with you guys again. Well, I'm I'm loving the fact that that's religious broadcasters just continues to have an impact. I think even a greater impact today than five, six, seven, eight years ago when I first started going. Actually, 10 years ago, I guess, was the first time I I went to one of them. And um, man, now it's like the event of the year. I don't get to go every year, but I mean everybody in the broadcasting world for you know, in in the Christian circles for sure, but but even just conservative media now, it's it's grown uh in a huge way.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Well, look, God's really, you know, you know, blessed us and it has grown. I I came over in 2019 uh, you know, from NRB TV, and uh, you know, that year out in Anaheim, we had about 2100 in attendance, and just this last year we were at uh just over 5,800. Uh we're expecting we're gonna be in Washington, DC, uh in 2027, February uh 2027, and we're really hoping to crack that 6,000 mark. But look, we live in the age of communications uh now. This is kind of the the thing that really you know drives life. Everybody runs around with one of these things here and you can't escape it. Uh you know, so it's it's just important for us, especially as Christian communicators, to keep up on uh, you know, all the new technologies, things that are going on, but also, you know, all the issues that are uh the headwinds that are in front of us.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Well, that's the whole thing is being able to, you know, be men of Issachar that understand the times and know what to do. So knowing what those the biblical position is on all these things, but then being able to articulate it and being able to get that message out so that we're actually discipling. I mean, uh that's the way I see religious broadcasting. You're discipling, you're you're you're teaching people how to live out the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

You you're exactly right. You're that's the number one. And you look, there's a great evangelistic part to it. I I know when I was with Dr. D. James Kennedy, I mean, a lot of people that tuned in, you know, in a time of crisis and heard the gospel and gave their life over. But uh, but really it's about building the church, discipling the church, getting the church ready, the bride ready, getting working on that word we don't talk about quite enough, sanctification uh, you know, of the church and and getting that in society. Because look, it's a sanctified church, it's a disciple church, it's a holy church that impacts society. It's that's the kind of church that makes a difference.

Why The Church Must Engage

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Yeah, man. And that's and and that idea that we should impact society for too long got kind of lost, right? We started thinking, oh, we're we're just supposed to stay in the four walls of our churches and all that nonsense that sort of neutered the church and and of course in COVID made made us uh not um you know not essential. And so now that we know we are and we see the culture crumbles without us and we're stepping back in, meaning the church as a whole, um, what what would you say is one of the most important things for us to communicate to the church in general about civic engagement, about actually impacting the culture around us?

SPEAKER_02 9:55

And I I think that is the I think it's the one of the most important issues, I think, is for us to step back and and look at you know the purpose of the church to begin with, because the church has had impact on the culture for 2,000 years. Every culture that the church has gone into, every culture the gospel's gone into has impacted that culture. And it's impacted it in a positive, righteous Christian way, in a holy way. It's taken out some of the worst pagan rituals and practices that went on uh in different cultures around the world. And and it's really, you know, that we talk a lot about human flourishing. The the foundation of human flourishing is the gospel of Jesus Christ, and it's the and it's the principles and the morality, the ethics, the values we find in the Bible. And and here's what I think we need to think of, Rick, uh as a church, more so than I think we've lost this in in maybe the last 40 or 50 years. We the American dream is always one thing. My I come from a family of immigrants that came in the late 1800s, early 1900s. But their American dream, my grandma talked about this all the time about her mom, was to pass on a better world to their children and grandchildren, and and hopefully knowing that their great-grandchildren were gonna have better opportunities, more opportunities, a safer world um than they had. And a lot of times they would sacrifice in order to have those things that they could pass on. And I think we've lost that view as Christians. And I think our number one reason for civic engagement is because we want to pass on a better world than we are living in today. And as Christians, we should want to pass on a solid Christian world to our to our future generations.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Well, it just so happens that when you pass on that Christian foundation, uh, then you actually do get all of those better things, right? It's just it's just basic laws of nature, nature is God. It's the way God created us. If we do biblical principles and we live those out, people get what they say they want: prosperity, freedom, all those things. When we don't do the Christian principles, we lose prosperity and freedom and all those things.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Yeah, you're exactly right. You look at every culture around, and in any culture that's tried to erase those Christian principles, whether it be a socialistic culture, whether it be a communistic culture, you know, or just a fascist dictator, you know, everyone humans have suffered. It's brought about the most suffering there is in a culture that is a Christeless culture and a Christeless society is a culture that's going to suffer. And as you said, those biblical principles, those gospel principles, whether they're just in politicians who just live out their worldview and how they govern, you know, that's when society flourishes, that's when the future is bright. Um, and even the current, even the present.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

You know, if if that's true, which I agree with you, of course, uh, I know it is, why would if you have the light, why would you not shine it to dispel the darkness?

How Christians Withdrew From Culture

SPEAKER_03 12:57

What happened? Why did why did we kind of just honestly remove ourselves uh from being salt and light?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Well, I think a couple of things started to happen here. We first of all, we we started to think that government knew better than we did individually, you know. So we didn't have any uproars when prayer was taken out of schools, we didn't have uproars when when the Ten Commandments were taken out of schools. And so when our institutions started to change, we just kind of bought into this idea that church is personal and private and it should be in our home and we shouldn't, you know, force this on it. And that kind of started us down this path that that that then I think has moved church and Christianity for further and further out of the mainstream culture. And we unfortunately, as Christians, we bought into it again. Dr. Kennedy told me when Roe v. Wade was passed in 1972, you know, uh uh there he said there was almost zero uproar. It wasn't even a front page issue. He said there were a few churches that made an uproar about it, but it didn't catch on. It didn't wasn't until the 1980s that the church caught up with this. So we have to understand that uh got God has given us a role in the culture today and a civics role in the culture. We're we're a this great 250 years, this great experiment, and you know this better than I do. This great experiment we have, the whole idea behind it was that the individual, the populace, the the what was the area where really power was because it was the individual conscience that was protected more than anything.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Man, and if we don't teach people how to think right and how to think biblically and teach them what the these timeless principles that produce such a good result, they fall for the lie, they fall for the socialist, you know, utopia and all the other things that tend to get um, you know, sold uh to the people. So if the church steps in and and pastors step in to do that and and we actually fulfill that role, what does that look like? Like how is the church best, especially for broadcasters or pastors that have, you know, Dr. Kennedy was so good at applying the Bible to whatever was happening, right? It was just true discipleship. How how do how do we convince pastors to do more of that? Where it it literally is just saying, okay, whatever's in the news, we should be talking about what the Bible says about that.

Gen Z Wants Biblical Answers

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Right, because they look, we did a survey with Barna last year in 2025 to kind of set a benchmark on on what you know was going on in Christian media. And a couple of things really popped out. I think I don't know if you saw this or not, it was really surprising. 60, 62 percent of the country, the country, this is the broad country, not just Christians, tune into Christian media at some point in in their time. You know, uh a big chunk of it, 40 some percent, tune in on a regular basis. But here is a here's let's big it down. Do you know what the two largest demographics tuning into Christian media were? It wasn't the baby boomers, it wasn't the baby boomers. That's what I look honestly, I would have guessed that. Gen Z was the largest, 64, the millennials mine or 58. And I'll tell you why. Because we asked them then why are you tuning into to Christian media? And and I can summarize it in this. They wanted answers. Yeah, they wanted answers to the things that are going on in life today. They, the number one thing, I want to know more about Christianity in the Bible. I I want to evaluate whether this is real, this is true. I want to know how to get closer to God, and I want to know how to have better relationships, but they really wanted answers. And and and we drill down a little deeper. 70% of people said, I'd love to hear my pastor talk more about current issues and what the Bible says about them. So, this idea of pastors out there that are self-censoring because they're afraid either going to offend their church or somehow they're gonna come in uh, you know, conflict with some government law, the Johnson Amendment or whatever else that's out there, you know, that's not what your congregation wants to hear. We can tell you they really do want to hear from you as a pastor to help them understand and develop a biblical worldview that they can then live their lives out to. I'll just say this one last on this. Yeah. If you go back 250 years, uh again, you know this well. The average citizen in America would be a Bible scholar today because they were not just in the Bible reading it, their daily devotion, they read it with the idea of this is going to impact the decisions I make in my life. Yeah, and that's what led to the revolution and led to this great constitutional republic we have today.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Wow. It's almost as if following the Bible creates a good society. Imagine that. Wow, you said so many good things there. I'm I'm thinking even the, you know, even the idea that that they're hungry, they're looking, they're searching, I totally agree with that. And so if we want to make our broadcasting or our whatever our platform is, right? If you're if you're a pastor, if you're a teacher, if you're an employer and you and you've got employees that listen to you or neighbors, whatever, we've all got voices. Um, if we if we really want to meet the need right now, we need to study to show ourselves approved. So we need to know that truth. And then we got to speak with all boldness. We got to be ready to answer, you know, 1 Peter 3.15. And so I what I hear you saying is that for religious broadcasting or anyone with a platform, for that to to be even stronger in the future than it's been in the past, let's get grounded and then let's be bold. That that's what I hear from your message.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

That's exactly right. Look, biblical literacy is the number one issue people want. They want to be literate in the Bible. That's that's it. That that's something the American Bible Society just came out with there. So people actually we we've seen this tip tick down, but look what happened. We've seen those the last year with COVID and everything. Bibles, people buying Bibles went up, way up, the purchasing of Bibles, especially again in that Gen Z. Why do you buy a Bible if you don't want to know what's in it? They want to know what's in it, they want to become literate on the Bible. Biblical literacy ought to be one of the things that as Christian communicators that we concentrate on the most. And then, as you said, the word we're using over and over again, be courageous. Yeah, be courageous. You know, remember that as leaders, we're we're held, what does Peter said, we're held to a higher accountability. We're we're held to God's standard, not manned. Uh, we shouldn't worry about that. I'm teaching through John right now in a family Bible study. And you know, I think it's I'm pretty sure it's chapter 12, you know, and John and Jesus goes through this whole thing about who he is, right? He's just clear as day at the beginning of that chapter, and then it gets down and it says, it says, Many of the Jews believed, but did not confess for fear of being cast out of the synagogue. That's a fear of man, that's the fear of being uh being, you know, cast out by the culture of not being culturally trendy, you know, or culturally popular. We can't worry about cultural popularity, we have to worry about biblical fidelity, and we have to worry about answering to God about our uh everything He's given us uh in our ministries.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

That's so good, right there. Well, and and courage is contagious, right? I mean, when when we stand, it it encourages other people to do the same. It's probably why you're seeing the growth in NRB as more people stand up and they're strong and they're bold and they have a message that people are hungry for. Uh the growth is there.

NRB Convention Details And Mission

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Troy, give me real quick. So February is going to be in DC. And people that are listening, I mean, obviously, people that are in broadcasting or authors or ministry or whatever, we want to see them there. What if you don't have a platform, but you just want to come support and you want to be a part of it? Can you do that at the convention?

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Oh, absolutely. The convention is open to anybody. You don't have to be an NRB member, you don't have to be a Christian broadcaster. And look, I'll tell you this, Rick, everybody is a Christian communicator today. That's right. The average person has a has a has a network of influence uh on social media of about 400 people, four times the size of the average church in America. Wow. Here. So you have a big network of influence. So we're February 23rd through the 27th. We're at the Gay Lord National in Washington, D.C. We have a we'll have a huge exhibit floor. You'll probably see your favorite ministry there if you're uh in the audience. If you're a broadcaster, you're gonna learn uh about new trends, new tools, things that are going on. We'll talk a lot about AI. We've been talking about that the last couple of years. You'll also get any changes in broadcast laws, any changes in the in the First Amendment challenges, all of those things we're gonna talk about. Plus, we're gonna talk about all of these cultural issues um that are facing us. We're going into you know two more years, the last two years of this administration. We've got a lot on the plate and a lot uh and really a lot at stake. What's the give me the website? Is it nrb.org? nrb.org. Nrb.org. It's the easiest one. And right from there, you can go up and click on NRB Convention and you get all the information for that. Or you can click over on and look at everything that we're dealing with on the public policy side. NRB has, I think, as you you know, and I tell your audience here, we are our number one thing is to advocate for Christian uh communicators to keep people like you, like Rick, and other people in the public space, because a lot of people would love to silence the Christian voice, especially the Christian voice. And communicators today. So we do that. Second, we help equip them. We do that iron sharpened iron. We keep that. And then, you know, the founding fathers uh of NRB, the the guys that started this back in 1944, they put in the constitution and to care for the spiritual welfare of the country. And so those are the three pillars that we stand on.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Man, it's uh it's also it is an iron sharpening iron event. You come in, it's kind of like coals, right? You heat up when you're together, and then you go back and do those brush fires of liberty back home. But it's so it's such an encouragement. I mean, you just leave there fired up going, look at all that God's doing in our nation and around the world. Uh so really do encourage people to check it out. nrb.org. It's always good to have you, Troy, man. Look forward to having you back soon. Thank you. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Hey guys, this is Tim Barton from Wall Builders. I'm gonna let you know about a new resource that should be a tool in your toolbox. This is the reprint of Thomas Jefferson's original draft of the Declaration of Independence. Now, there's lots of reasons it would be cool to own a reprint like this, but one of the things that I want to highlight is not only is this a reprint that is in Thomas Jefferson's own hand in cursive, it shows some of his edits along the way, which is really fun, but it also shows what Thomas Jefferson thought was the most significant grievance in the original draft. It's the longest grievance, it's the last grievance. It was a grievance against the slave trade, arguing actually also against slavery, and arguing for the humanity of all that were enslaved. Thomas Jefferson thought that was the most important. Now, it didn't make it in the final draft, and we will explain why in the resource packet you get when you order one of these copies. But friends, this is something that you want in your collection. Go to wallbooter.com and look for Thomas Jefferson's original draft of the Declaration of Independence.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Welcome back to the Wall Booter

Strategic Voices And Closing Takeaways

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Show. Thanks for staying with us. And no, I tried, I tried, I arm wrestled, I thumb wrestled, I tried everything I could to defeat Tim and take the jersey, and it and it didn't work. He's younger, he's stronger, and he knows jujitsu. So for anybody that was wondering, like Rick's the baseball guy, surely he tackled Tim and tried to get the jersey. Yes, I tried to tackle Tim. It didn't work. Alright, anyway, thanks to Troy Miller for joining us back with David and Tim. Uh guys, always good to have Troy, and hopefully we'll make it out to NRB this uh this February for the conference.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

NRB has really proven to be a growing influence. Uh when you get so many Christian broadcasters together, but now with what we're seeing in the rise with in the culture with Bible sales and with young men and others stepping up, uh this has become another format that that's taking on and and they've done a a decent job in keeping up with with new technology and new things. And so it's fun to see them get engaged that way. And that is another growing voice, and there's no question that with all the spiritual hunger I I I happen to be right now in South Carolina and see a runoff election for US Senate here in South Carolina. And so we're doing some barn storming across the state. But i it is just interesting to see the the youth and how they're wanting uh some some discipline and and that's just a good thing about NRB and they've gotten into the news as well. And it's just so much NRB has also gotten engaged in the culture and become much more relevant in the way they they put their news out and their comments out. So but NRB, we appreciate Troy and all that he's done. And he's really helped NRB grow and become more relevant, which we really need right now because we do believe we're in a great awakening. But you need that communication thing just as as Franklin helped Woodfield do that back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Well, guys, one of the things too I would say is that for everybody listening, you need to make sure you are being strategic to find voices that are helping speak to what are gonna be the emerging issues. Uh whether it be how do we navigate the Democrat socialists of America, as they're saying, capitalism is bad, socialism is good, uh, and especially having that conversation with the rising generation, the 40 years and down, who are the by far biggest voting bloc. How do you talk about uh the Islamification of America? And and actually, what can you do? What can't you do? When people want to point to Israel as being the number one problem and they ignore the Democrat Socials of America, they they ignore the uh increase of Islam in America. You want to find voices that are gonna equip you to speak to those issues. And I appreciate that the NRB uh brings a lot of those voices together. Uh and it's one of the reasons why we are gonna continue on with this program to try to help give people guidance on these significant issues that we need to have good answers to so we can help disciple the culture around us.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Well, thanks to Troy Miller for joining us today. Be sure to check out their website, nrb.org, and of course, our websites at wallbuilders.show and wobblers.com. You've been listening to the Wabbuilder Show.