Welcome to Faith and Culture

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the Wall Builder Show taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. I'm Rick Green Records Constitution Coach with David and Tim Barton. You can find out more about all three of us at wallbuilders.com. And then, of course, that's where you can find out more about our activities coming up this year. We've got pastors' briefings coming up, lots of great trainings, tons of great information at wallbuilders.com, and then the radio program, wallbuilders.show, wallbuilders.show to catch up on any shows you might have missed over the last few weeks and months. And also to share. We we really emphasize that a lot. I probably say it, I don't know, every other day here on the show, but definitely think about how to be a force multiplier because when you share the program, people get truth. And you may not, you know, uh be able to uh go interview some of the people that we're blessed to get to interview, or you know, maybe you got questions for David Barton about the Constitution or history or or for Tim. And uh, and and you don't always get to just ask those directly then, well, here are wall builders, I get to ask them and you get to hear them, and then we get to send it to our friends and family and let them uh have those same, that same epiphany moment that you probably had one day listening to wall builders, where you're like, man, finally somebody answered that question about the constitution or whatever it was, uh, or maybe it's just faith of the founders, or maybe it was about some historical figure. Well, help other people have those moments too. Get truth into their hands. I promise you, you can be the catalyst for a restoration of biblical values and constitutional principles. Share the Wall Builders program with as many people as you possibly

Why Sharing Truth Matters

SPEAKER_01 1:35

can. We're gonna we're gonna uh take a break early in the program today because I've got an interview that I am so excited about. I'm telling you, I I don't always get, you know, so excited about interviews, even if they're famous people or whatever. I mean, I love doing my job, but I just don't, uh I don't know, I just figure everybody's uh normal just like you and me. But uh but today it's a little bit special because this one's reaching back into my child of the 80s years and uh formidable, formidable years where um the two guys that are going to be on had a significant impact on me. Impact on my way of thinking, um, impact on uh the way I saw God, um, an impact on bringing me back to the Lord. I mean, just so many, so many things that they did with their music in in my formidable days, and even to this day, I I still listen to so much of their music, uh, especially the the worship songs uh from the Petra Praise album. But uh but also even going all the way back to the More Power to You and Um Beat the System and Back to the Street, Beyond Belief. I mean, there's just so much of that music that even to this day is some of my favorite music to listen to because it had such an impact on me. So, yes, Petra is our guest today. We're gonna have uh the founder of Petra, Bob Hartman, and then John Slit, who was uh lead singer for most of those years. He came in in in 86, and uh to this day they're uh they're still touring. So really, really cool and excited to have them with us because a new movie is coming out that features their music. It's called Beyond Believe, and the website to learn more is Beyondbelief.movie. Beyondbelief.movie. It's an inspirational story of a a young kid that's um, I think he's a senior in high school or at least in high school, uh doing a battle of the bands and and uh and uh running a marathon and uh all kinds of cool stuff. So anyway, the movie's uh I think gonna be very cool, and of course the music's gonna be cool, and it's and it's gonna take us back to the 80s, which I'm looking forward to. So we're gonna we're gonna take a break uh a little bit early today, and when we come back, we're gonna have with us, yes, Petra. Okay, can you tell I'm excited? I'm probably gonna be overly excited in the interview. You know, if you send in your emails and say, Rick, you were just giddy. You were just silly, you know, you were like, well, it's because I love these guys, and I've never I've never met them. I've never got to talk to them before. So when we come back from the break, it'll be my first chance to to visit with them, and I'm looking forward to it. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with Bob Hartman and John Schlitt of the band Petra.

Book Spotlight on Declaration Signers

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Okay, we want to let you know about a new product we have here at Wall Builders called Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honor, the Signers of the Declaration. Like most Americans, you might be someone that you recognize some of the names of the Founding Fathers, but do you know their story? We want to help remedy that. My dad and I have written biographies on all 56 signers of the Declaration to help reintroduce people to the men who literally signed their names on the line for the sake of the nation. When they did this, they knew that they were essentially signing their death warrants. They were risking everything for the hope that they might be able to purchase freedom for the rising generation with their lives, their fortunes, and sacred honors. In spite of the hardship that every one of them endured, none of them recant or backed away. Now, if you don't know their story, you can get to know all 56 of them. Go to wallbuilders.com and look for the book Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honors, the signers of the Declaration.

America’s First War on Islamic Terror

SPEAKER_00 5:02

This is Tim Barn from Wallbuilders with another moment from American history. The year after the American War for Independence ended, we began addressing the issue of Muslim terrorists in North Africa who were attacking American ships and killing and enslaving American seamen. Congress dispatched John Adams and Thomas Jefferson to negotiate peace, and when they asked the Muslim ambassador the reason for the unprovoked attacks, he told them that it was written in their Quran, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them whenever they could be found. Sixteen years of negotiations failed, and in 1801, America sent its military to crush the terrorists. When that war ended in 1805, the first American edition of the Quran was published, urging Americans to read the Quran to see for themselves that its teachings were incompatible with the safety and peace of non-Muslims. To see the first American Quran and to get more information about America's first war on Islamic terror, go to wallbuilders.com.

Meet Petra and the Beyond Belief Film

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Welcome back to the Wall Builder Show. Thanks for staying with us, man. I am excited about today's show. Now, some of you out there know we have all kinds of people on here: presidential candidates, senators, uh movie stars, all that kind of stuff. And I don't get super excited about anybody, but Petra is with us. Bob Hartman, the founder of Petra, is with us. John Schlitt, who, I mean, you guys both own a part of my brain. I was just telling you, off air, I can't even like I think I have almost every song y'all ever cut uh in my head, but certainly all the way back to More Power to You. And and anyway, I'm just thrilled. Guys, thanks for coming on. Excited about the movie Beyond Believe coming out.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Thank you, Rafael. Thanks for having us. Uh thank you.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

And and and I and I hope I want to talk about the movie, obviously. That's what we're promoting today, but I'd love to just, you know, hear a little bit from y'all about what you're doing now, talk a little bit about the history of of Petra, the impact that it's had on people like me. I mean, as I was telling you off air, that Petra Praise album to this day is one of my favorite ways to worship the Lord. Um, and and so many of the things I was telling Bob, uh, John, before you came on, just the the courage that Petra had to take an area of the culture that too many Christians had thought somehow God couldn't go there or thought that you couldn't reach kids that way. And uh the way that y'all did that, I mean, even back to God gave rock and roll to you, to uh, you know, all of it. Uh so anyway, I'm just thankful for courage from you guys. We here at Wall Builders are always and at Patriot Academy, we believe in take, you know, to helping kids find their calling, whether it's music, entertainment, politics, you know, education, business, whatever it is, whatever God's put on their heart. We just want them to honor God in it and and and go take the gospel in that area. So y'all have done that your entire life and impacted millions and millions of people. So uh very, very cool. And I and I would assume seeing the you know, y'all did a movie kind of like this with uh um with some of your videos years ago. I remember that. But this is the first one I think that's had that's featured uh Petra music that was, you know, a typical uh feature film.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Yeah, totally a different concept on this one. Um it's the same title, yeah, beyond belief. But this one, they came to us and they said, you know, there's never been a movie about Christianity with young people in the eighties. And we want to do that, and we want to feature the music of Petra because a lot of kids, you know, gravitated towards your music and uh you know received uh spiritual benefit. And so we thought, well, that's a great concept. Uh let's uh move forward, you know, and lo and behold, they actually made the movie.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I love it. And so it's it's it's uh it features a ton of your music uh from over the years. And uh and I will admit, you know, I had to hide to play uh, you know, uh Judas Kiss and some of those songs when I was, you know, fourth, fifth grade. My mom was the typical, you know, that's not Christian music. You know, that was uh so uh so it took a little while to convince her. And she was a musician, man. She played with the uh you know, traveled with the Rambos years ago, so definite difference in uh style there. Um but uh but no, I I think uh if I if I understand right, the movie's gonna feature music from you know across the decades of your music. It's not just gonna be just from the Beyond Belief album.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Well, more more in the decade of the 80s. Yeah. Uh although I I think they're snuck in a few. Uh, but you know, the the move the the the soundtrack for the movie is actually gonna be very interesting when it comes out because uh you've got some of these artists, some of these uh uh stars of the movie that are have their own stuff, you know, their own songs, and they're very good. So it's be uh I I'm actually very interested in hearing the soundtrack when it comes out. So um it's it's got a lot of uh of new stuff, old stuff. Uh it's just a very exciting movie. Uh love the fact that it's totally uh geared around a Christmas, uh a Christian perspective. Um it's just something that Bob and I like to be part of, you know. Uh entertainment, uh very good entertainment, actually, uh, but in the name of Christ in a roundabout way. So so uh when whenever we get a chance to do something like that, we're gonna jump aboard it. We're just we're actually very excited they they thought of it and that we could be part of it.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah. Beyondbelief.movie for folks that uh you can find where it's gonna be airing and uh comes out at the end of the month. Beyondbelief.movie, and and you can see the trailer there as well. Um a little bit about just you know, Petra over the years. Uh, you know, John, you came in, was it 86, right? When you Back to the Street was your first uh album with uh uh with Petra. And um I I I remember, you know, for me, like that was one of the ones that I just memorized every song. I mean, I listened to that thing over and over again and and and wore out the the cassette. I'd been listening back when when Greg was uh the the lead vocals, uh, but man, when you came on board, it was a whole different sound. And I read something when I was getting ready for this interview. I I read something that said that that was not one of your better selling ones. The next couple of albums sold a lot better than Back to the Street, but it was always my favorite. So I don't know what what it was. Maybe it was just too different. I don't know. Well, you guys, you guys know the business better than I do, but I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

No, you you just had you just had better taste than most people. That's all that's right.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Well, well, and Bob, I wanted to ask you from an entrepreneurial

Running a Band as a Testimony

SPEAKER_01 11:20

perspective. I mean, you went through ups and downs, you had so many, you know, uh changes, and and for a band to make it as long as y'all did and have the impact as many albums and as much impact literally for decades. Um, you had to have some entrepreneurial spirit to see that, you know, uh uh not just as a musician, but the business side of things. And I've been dying to ask you about that. Most people don't have both left-right brain thing, you know, they they can't do the art thing and the business thing. And I know you handed it over to John, who did the same thing, uh, I guess in the late 80s or maybe it was uh mid-90s. Talk to me about that. How did you guys balance loving to do your art and your music, but also having to run a business because it's a big business?

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah, you know, it's always been a delicate balance, and uh, we've always believed that our business and the way we handle it is part of our testimony because we use vendors uh that are not Christian all the time. And uh we don't want to be uh remiss to in our payments to them. We want them to say, these are the best people we've ever worked with. And that's part of our testimony. And so it's been a delicate balance. I remember times where we had to tell everyone, okay, we're all taking a pay cut because of the way things are until we get caught up. And uh there have been several times over the years where we said we all need to pray whether God wants us to keep going or not. And somehow, you know, God has always shown us a way. And uh you know, it's amazing to me to be s here still, you know, doing this. But uh you know, we're thankful to God for every moment that He gives us because it's not only our life's work, but it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah, yeah. Oh man, I've I've been there even with my ministry at Patriot Academy with 70 employees and had times when we had to say, hey guys, it's tight right now, and we're all gonna take a cut. I had to go without pay, you know, for sometimes months and months at at a time. And when you're the leader of the band, you know, that's you just have to you have to do it. Um, I gotta ask you about something I read.

The Backward Masking Myth Explained

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Is it true? Because I remember as a kid, the whole backward masking thing, and everybody trying to act like y'all had these messages, and so y'all put a positive message in the backward masking where it said something like, Why are you looking for the devil when you should be looking for God or something like that? Is that true? Did that really happen?

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Yeah, it sure did. I love it. You know, that came as a result of uh us seeing how the there were you know multiple people out there on the circuit, the church circuit, yeah uh you know, playing things backwards for uh these people saying, Here, did you hear that? Did you hear that? You know, and then they tell them what they think it said. And uh, you know, we have been in the studio long enough to know how really impossible and futile something like that would be to even try. And so uh we thought we'd put uh a little joke on there, and uh because we knew people would be uh very fast to uh find out what we were saying.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

So it was a backwards it was a backwards message, and we've had questions about that uh you know for years and years.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Yeah. Well, I've I've I've had fun watching my son, my my kids' generation now. Uh John Cooper's a friend of mine from from Skillet, and so they face a lot of the same criticism you guys did so long ago. Y'all paved the way, honestly, and I've heard him even say that. Um, but man, uh John, what what are you doing now? What do you what well uh both of you, what's what's new on y'all's horizon besides the movie? What else are you guys working on? What are projects coming up?

New Album Hope and Life on Tour

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Well, we actually finished uh a uh our newest album, believe it or not, after 20 years, we have a new album called Hope. And we're out there touring that as a Hope tour. Nice. Um and our tours are sort of different. We don't go out and you know play 400 dates uh in a row and then uh relax. We we're sort of available, you know? And we we're available to to South America, Central America, Scandinavia, Germany, uh uh, and and the U.S. I I mentioned all the others first because we're more valuable to them, apparently, than to the U.S. But but we're um the album's picking up. Um we're sort of our own label. Uh don't get a lot of support from the Christian industry, so to say. Understand that. I mean, they got their own uh core of of bands now, and that's cool. Um, so we just do what we do, and guys opening the doors every oh my gosh, these the doors are opening and we're walking through it, and uh hey, we're not young puppies anymore, you know. So it's uh it's quite the challenge, but I'll tell you what, it keeps us young. We have a ball, just came from Mexico City. Um, the people there were amazing. Uh very it's just something that I think we're both gypsies in a roundabout way, and and if we're not on the road, we don't quite feel right. So I would say that's probably the biggest right now.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

All those years of touring, it's in your blood. Well, that's great. And and it is interesting to watch how much the international um, you know, like you said, value is is there. It's not just in Christian music, secular music. I see that too. Um, you know, it it's it's it's really wild. But I was I was gonna ask you, so who all is in the band now? Like who's traveling with you when you when you do it? Y'all have had so many great people, great musicians throughout the years.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

First of all, I want to say we got one of the best bands we've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

Right now, I can say that as a singer.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

It's John and myself and John Lowry on keyboards, who's been in the band for decades. Uh and then we have uh Greg Bailey on bass, who's also been with the band for oh I think over 20 years now.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah, it's been over 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

And uh and uh our newest member who's been with the band for uh over a decade is Christian Borneo. And he's from uh uh Argentina and uh that's a story in and of itself. But he's a great drummer and a great friend, and we have a lot of fun on the road, and it's just uh really uh really fun.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

It's nice to be the singer of a it's nice to be a singer of of uh a band that's consists of four amazing musicians. It's uh it's really a treat for me. I it I walk on stage going, you're gonna hear good stuff, trust me.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Well, you know what's amazing to me, and being a child of the 80s and and and loving you know any music from the 80s more than more than anything else, is how your voice doesn't change.

How John Protects His Voice

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Like you when I hear you now, I mean it's like the same. So how it's like you would think it's like any other muscle, but it I mean you sound the same. How do you explain that?

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Well, I'll tell you what, I went through a little bit of a challenge about uh uh about six months ago while I was recording the album.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Yeah, and I I I couldn't figure out why everybody in the band will go, John, what's going on with you? What's going on? Because you know, oh it doesn't matter, I'm getting older. Don't what's going on with me? I've finally realized that I was getting excited again and over singing, and there's just a certain way of technique that you do where you just uh let your voice rest, let it do its thing, and find that that sweet spot, and it's amazing how and I really think that's from God. That really is from God. Find the sweet spot that He's given you, use it, and it's amazing how far you can go.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

That's the that's the old uh Eric Liddell thing, right? The uh the Olympic uh runner that uh wouldn't run on the Sabbath, and and he said, God made me fast, and when I run I feel God's pleasure. So for John Schlitt, when I sing, I feel God's pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

I and I do. I I just the fact that we're able to sing the songs that Bob's written that I truly are I I feel are anointed. Uh the chance to be able to sing those songs every uh every night when we're on stage, I know I know for a fact that it's going to reach people in a very positive way. Not only entertaining, uh which I think it is, but it's also very important in in a spiritual sense. And it's so cool to watch people have fun and not real and sometimes not even realize that they're getting blessed through in a spiritual way, too.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Well, it's amazing to me how music I I mean, even to this day, I don't know. I think you recorded Petra Praise in 88 or 89, something like that, maybe 90. Um, I still to this day can play those songs. When I see we exalt you, I mean, all those it's like, I mean, the Holy Spirit moves. So it's like, how do I don't know how he does that through a recording that you did so long ago, but that praise that still comes out of that is just so powerful even to this day. So it's pretty cool how God made us to be so connected through music.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Praise God. I it's so cool. I I uh I love watching how how he works. I love how how the Petra music has uh gone through the years almost timeless. Uh and it's an honor to be part of that. You know, I I came in late, or I came in, you know, after Greg did a great job of of creating a uh um a sound that was very very uh attraction uh attractive. Uh I was a big Petra fan because of that. Uh and when I came in, I I wasn't concerned about filling his shoes. I just wanted to make sure my shoes were were doing the job as well as he was. And uh at that time it was it was uh uh it was a real blessing to be part of it.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

And you and you had you had done secular music initially, if I read right, became a Christian between uh I forget the band now that you that you left, and then uh and that was when Bob offered you the opportunity and y'all y'all got together. I think y'all met on an airplane, right? Did y'all meet on an airplane or something?

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Well, actually, yes. That's I didn't know uh very few people know that story, but I sat next to John on an airplane flight before he was a Christian, and uh we had a conversation, and I think it was just one of those things that God does, you know, that you kind of blows your mind later. You know, that's wild. Uh I later heard he became a Christian and I thought, wow. You know, I I remember seeing his band Head East and remember seeing seeing John, and John would be one of those people that I would vote will probably never would be a Christian uh when he was in that band. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

God wants to confound our wisdom, right? He loves it. Right. No.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

God uh God does that just uh confound me, I think, sometimes, you know. Uh, the most pleasant guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

No.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah, I should never uh count anyone out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Well, thank they thank the good Lord He can use all of us, uh broken vessels

Choosing Setlists and Signature Songs

SPEAKER_01 22:20

for sure. Amen. I I know everybody probably asked y'all this, but I gotta get favorite song uh uh uh over the years. And Bob, you wrote so many. You're like my you know, my like uh Buck and Dottie Rambo were my godparents because my my mom had uh traveled with them all those years, and Dottie wrote thousands of songs. Um I I don't I don't know how many you wrote, but I know most of the Petra hits uh you wrote them. How do you how do you pick even even when y'all go tour now? Like how do you how do you pick you only have you know a couple hours on stage, you got to do the new album. You got such a collection to choose from. What do you do? How do you pick your songs?

SPEAKER_02 22:54

You know, that is one of the hardest things that we do, and we sit down and uh have discussions about it, and and uh, you know, the newer guys, uh Greg and and Christian, always want to reach back and do some uh song, but we say, well, we don't have any re requests for that song, you know. We go a lot by request of what people, you know, say they want to hear. And uh, you know, there are just certain songs we have to play.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

And uh, you know, Beyond Belief is one of them for sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

This means war. Is that is that one you you play uh still a lot? That's in there.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Yeah, absolutely. I am on the rock is in there. Yes, Creed, you know, there's just certain songs that we have to play.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah, people leave the concert disappointed if you don't, but it uh some of those, right? You just gotta do them. Oh yeah. Okay, so give me one. What's your favorite song that you ever recorded with Tetra John? And Bob, what's your favorite one that y'all recorded and you wrote? I guess favorite's not the way I wanted. If you had to pick one, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Okay, for me, I I'm just I'll just go, you know, be simple. Uh Beyond Belief, you have to play. Yeah. And for me for a singer, I want to see the s the crowd satisfied. So I want to play Beyond Belief just so they're happy. Um, there's probably some other songs that I like as much, but when it's the whole picture for the ministry, for Petra as a whole, it's gotta be Beyond Belief.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah, it's good. Bobby.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Well, that's a that's a really hard one. I can I could say one song for one reason and another song for another reason. Um I'm gonna say Jekyll and Hyde.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

All the way back, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Yeah, that's a you know, a really popular song and a lot of fun to play, and you know, it's pretty neat.

Where to Watch and See Petra

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Let me do two things before we go. Uh Petra so to book you guys or to find out where you're playing, petroband.com, is that still the best place to go? Yes, that's right. Petroband.com. And then for the movie, beyondbelief.movie, beyondbelief.movie will be in theaters at the end of the month, and you can also book it into your church and uh and do a show there. August 28th is when it is being released. Um, man, what a treat. Guys, thank you. Thank you, thank you for all that you've done over the years. Um, you haven't just been entertainers, you've literally led so many people to Christ and given, I I mean, I know for me as a young guy, um, a way to come to know the Lord in in a language that I could understand. That's the best way I know to say it. So bless y'all.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Thank you. That was our gold. It always has been, it still is now. It still is now. We walk on stage and believe God's got a plan for that night, and we just stabbed all the way and do our best.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Love it. Love it. Bob, God bless you, man. Y'all keep up the great work. You too, Rick. Thanks. Thanks, Rick. That was Bob Hartman and John Schlitt of the epic band Petra.

Closing Thanks and Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 26:02

I mean, it just they paved the the way for so many uh of the Christian music, um, people in the Christian music industry, especially in the you know, Christian rock industry, which which I'm a fan of, and I'm sure there's some of you out there that that that aren't, but that's okay. Trust me when I tell you, it does reach people that would not be reached otherwise. And uh and I was one of those kids. So I'm I'm really thankful for these guys and certainly appreciate them taking time to be on with us here on Wallboarders. Be sure and check the movie out, beyondbelief.movie, beyondbelief.movie, and then petroband.com to learn more about where they're going to be touring and where you can uh go see them. Thanks for listening today, folks. You've been listening to the Wallboiler Show.