Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. I'm Rick Green America's Constitution Coach with David and Tim Barton. You can find out more about all three of us at wallbuilders.com. And then, of course, that's where you can find more about our activities coming up this year. We've got Pastors Briefings coming up, lots of great trainings, tons of great information at wallbilders.com. And then the radio program, wallbuilders.show, wallbuillders.show to catch up on any shows you might have missed over the last few weeks and months. And also to share. We really emphasize that a lot. I probably say it, I don't know, every other day here on the show, but definitely think about how to be a force multiplier because when you share the program, people get truth. And you may not be able to go interview some of the people that we're blessed to get to interview, or maybe you've got questions for David Barton about the Constitution or history or for Tim, and you don't always get to just ask those direct to them. Well, here on WallBuilders, I get to ask them and you get to hear them, and then we get to send it to our friends and family and let them have those same, that same epiphany moment that you probably had one day listening to WallBuilders where you're like, man, finally somebody answered that question about the Constitution or whatever it was. Or maybe it was just faith of the Founders or maybe it was about some historical figure. Well help other people have those moments to get truth into their hands. I promise you; you can be the catalyst for a restoration of biblical values and constitutional principles. Share the WallBuilders program with as many people as you possibly can. We're gonna take a break early in the program today because I've got an interview that I am so excited about. I'm telling you, I don't always get so excited about interviews, even if they're famous people or whatever, I mean, I love doing my job, but I just don't, I dunno, I just figure everybody's normal just like you and me. But today, it's a little bit special because this one's reaching back into my child of the 80s years and formidable, formidable years where the two guys that are going to be on had a significant impact on me. Impact on my way of thinking, impact on the way I saw God, impact on bringing me back to the Lord. I mean just so many, so many things that they did with their music in my formidable days and even to this day. I still listen to so much of their music, especially the worship songs from the Petra Praise album, but also even going all the way back to the More Power to You and Beat the System and Back to the Street, Beyond Belief I mean, there's just so much of that music that even to this day is some of my favorite music to listen to because it Had such an impact on me. So yes Petra is our guest today. We're gonna have the founder of Petra Bob Hartman and then John Schlitt who was lead singer for most of those years. He came in in '86 and to this day they're still touring. So really, really cool and excited to have them with us because a new movie is coming out that features their music. It's called Beyond Belief. And the website to learn more is BeyondBelief.Movie. BeyondBelief.movie, it's an inspirational story of a young kid that's, I think he's a senior in high school or at least in high-school, doing a battle of the bands and running a marathon and all kinds of cool stuff. So anyway, the movie's I think gonna be very cool. And of course, the music's gonna be cool. And it's gonna take us back to the 80s, which I'm looking forward to. So we're gonna take a break a little bit early today. And when we come back, we're going to have with us. Yes. Petra. Okay. Can you tell I'm excited? I'm probably going to be overly excited in the interview. You know, if you send in your emails and say, Rick, you were just giddy. You were just silly. You know? You were like, well, it's because I love these guys and I've never, I've never met them, I never got to talk to them before, so when we come back from the break, it'll be my first chance to, to visit with them. And I'm looking forward to it. Stay with us folks. We'll be right back with Bob Harman and John Schlitt of the band Petra 

Rick Green [00:06:01] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us, man. I am excited about today's show. Now, some of you out there know we have all kinds of people on here, presidential candidates, senators, movie stars, all that kind of stuff. And I don't get super excited about anybody. But Petra is with us. Bob Hartman, the founder of Petra, is with us. John Schlitt, who I mean, you guys both own a part of my brain. I was just telling you off air. I can't even like, I think I have almost every song y'all ever cut in my head, but certainly all the way back to More Power to You. And, and anyway, I'm just thrilled guys. Thanks for coming on. Excited about the movie Beyond Belief coming out. 

John Schlitt [00:06:38] Thank you, thanks for having us. 

Bob Hartman [00:06:40] Thank you. 

Rick Green [00:06:42] And I hope, I want to talk about the movie, obviously, that's what we're promoting today, but I'd love to just, you know, hear a little bit from y'all about what you're doing now, talk a little about the history of Petra, the impact that it's had on people like me. I mean, as I was telling you off air, that Petra Praise album to this day is one of my favorite ways to worship the Lord, and so many of the things, I was tellin' Bob, John, before you came on, just the courage that Petra had to take an area of the culture that too many Christians had thought somehow God couldn't go there or thought that you couldn't reach kids that way. And the way that y'all did that, I mean, even back to God Gave Rock and Roll to You to all of it. So anyway, I'm just thankful for courage from you guys. We here at WallBuilders are always and at Patriot Academy, we believe in to helping kids find their calling, whether it's music, entertainment, politics, education, business, whatever it is, whatever God's put on their heart. We just want them to honor God in it and, and, and go take the gospel in that area. So y'all have done that your entire life and impacted millions and millions of people. So, uh, very, very cool. And I, and I would assume seeing the, you know, y'all did a movie kind of like this with, with some of your videos years ago. I remember that, but this is the first one I think that's had, that's featured Petra music that was, you know, a typical feature film. 

Bob Hartman [00:07:59] Yeah, totally a different concept on this one. It's the same title Beyond Belief, but this one they came to us and they said, you know, there's never been a movie about Christianity with young people in the eighties and we want to do that. And we wanna feature the music of Petra because a lot of kids, you know gravitated towards your music and you know, received a spiritual benefit. And so we thought, well, that's a great concept. Let’s move forward, you know, and lo and behold, they actually made the movie. 

Rick Green [00:08:41] I love it and so it's ... It features a ton of your music. From over the years and ... and I will admit you know I had to hide to play, you know, Judas Kiss and some of those songs. When I was, you know, fourth, fifth grade, my mom was the typical, you know, “that’s not Christian music", you know, so it took a little while to convince her. And she was a musician, man. She played with the, you know, traveled with the Rambos years ago. So definite difference in style there. But no, I think if I understand right, the movie is going to feature music from, you know, across the decades of your music. It's not just going to be just from the Beyond Belief album. 

John Schlitt [00:09:17] Well, more in the decade of the 80s. Yeah, although I think they're sneaking in a few, but the soundtrack for the movie is actually gonna be very interesting when it comes out because you've got some of these artists, some of the stars of the movie that have their own stuff, their own songs, and they're very good. So I'm actually very interested in hearing the soundtrack when it comes out. So... It's got a lot of new stuff, old stuff. It's just a very exciting movie. I love the fact that it's totally geared around a Christian perspective. It's something that Bob and I like to be part of entertainment, very good entertainment actually, but in the name of Christ in a roundabout way. So whenever we get a chance to do something like that, we're gonna jump aboard it. We're actually very excited that they thought of it and that we could be part of it. 

Rick Green [00:10:20] Yeah, BeyondBelief.movie for folks that you can find where it's going to be airing and comes out at the end of the month, BeyondBelief.Movie. And you can see the trailer there as well. A little bit about just, you know, Petra over the years, you know, John, you came in, was it '86, right? When you, Back to the Street was your, was your first album with, with Petra and I remember, you know, for me like that was one of the ones that I just memorized every song, I mean, I listened to that thing over and over again and wore out the cassette. I'd been listening back when Greg was the lead vocals. But man, when you came on board, it was a whole different sound. And I read something when I was getting ready for this interview I read some they said that that was not one of your better selling ones. The next couple of albums sold a lot better than Back in the Street, but it was always my favorite. So I don't know what well what it was. Maybe it's just too different, I don't know were you guys... You guys know the business better than I do, but I loved it 

John Schlitt [00:11:12] No, you just had better taste than most people, that's all. 

Rick Green [00:11:17] That's right. Well, Bob, I wanted to ask you from an entrepreneurial perspective. I mean, you went through ups and downs. You had so many, you know changes and, and for a band to make it as long as y'all did and have the impact as many albums and as much impact literally for decades. You had to have some entrepreneurial spirit to see that, you know, not just as a musician, but the business side of things. And I've been dying to ask you about that. Most people don't have both left, right brain thing. You know, they, they can't do the art thing and the business thing. And I know you handed it over to John who did the same thing, I guess in the late eighties or maybe it was 

mid-nineties. Talk to me about that? How did you guys balance loving to do your art and your music, but also having to run a business? Cause it's a big business. 

Bob Hartman [00:12:00] Yeah, you know, it's always been a delicate balance, and we've always believed that our business and the way we handle it is part of our testimony, because we use vendors that are not Christian all the time. And we don't want to be remiss to in our payments to them, we want them to say, these are the best people we've ever worked with. And that's part of our testimony. 

Rick Green [00:12:30] Yeah. 

Bob Hartman [00:12:31] So it's been a delicate balance. I remember times where we had to tell everyone, okay, we're all taking a pay cut because of the way things are until we get caught up. And there were been several times over the years where we said, we all need to pray whether God wants us to keep going or not, and somehow, you know, God has always shown us a way. And, you know, it's amazing to me to be here still, you know, doing this, but, uh, you know, we're thankful to God for every moment that he gives us because it's not only our life's work, but it's a lot of fun. 

Rick Green [00:13:13] Yeah, yeah, oh, man. I've been there even with my ministry of Patriot Academy with 70 employees and had times when we had to say; guys, it's tight right now and we're all gonna take a cut. I had to go without pay, you know, for sometimes months and months at a time and when you're the leader of the band, you know that's, you just have to, you have to do it. I gotta ask you about something I read. Is it true? Cause I remember as a kid, the whole backward masking thing and everybody trying to act like y'all had these messages and so y’all put a positive message in the backward masking where it said something like, why are you looking for the devil when you should be looking for God or something like that. Is that true? Did that really happen? 

Bob Hartman [00:13:51] Yeah, it sure did. 

Rick Green [00:13:54] I love it. 

Bob Hartman [00:13:55] You know, that came as a result of us seeing how the, there were, you know, multiple people out there on the circuit, the church circuit. 

Rick Green [00:14:05] Yeah. 

Bob Hartman [00:14:06] You know playing things backwards for these people saying here, did you hear that? Did you hear what? You know and then they tell them what they think it said. And you know we have been in the studio long enough to know how really impossible and futile something like that would be to even try. And so we thought we'd put a little joke on there, because we knew people would be very fast to find out what we were saying. 

Rick Green [00:14:40] That's brilliant. I love it. 

Bob Hartman [00:14:42] It was a backwards message and we've had questions about that for years and years. 

Rick Green [00:14:50] Yeah, well, I've had fun watching my son my kid’s generation now John Cooper's a friend of mine from Skillet and so they face a lot of the same criticism you guys did, you know, so long ago. Y'all paved the way honestly, and I've heard him even say that. But man, John, what are you doing now? What do you what both of you? What's new on y'alls horizon besides the movie? What else are you guys working on? What projects coming up? 

John Schlitt [00:15:13] Well, we actually finished the, our newest album, believe it or not, after 20 years, we have a new album called Hope and we're out there touring that as a whole tour. Nice. And our tours are sort of different. We don't go out and, you know, play 400 dates, in a row and then relax. We were sort of available, you know, and we were available to, to South America, Central America, Scandinavia, Germany, And, and the US. I, I mentioned all the others first because we're more valuable to them apparently than to the U.S. But, but we're, the album's picking up. We're sort of our own label. Don't get a lot of support from the Christian industry, so to say, understand that. I mean, they've got their own, core of bands now and that's cool. So, we just do what we do and God's opening the doors, every, oh my gosh, He's, the doors are opening and we're walking through it. Hey, we're not young puppies anymore, you know? So, it's quite the challenge, but I'll tell you what, it keeps us young. We have a ball. Just came from Mexico City. The people there were amazing. It's just something that I think we're both gypsies in a roundabout way. And if we're on the road, we don't quite feel right. So, I would say that's probably the biggest. 

Rick Green [00:16:32] All those years of touring, it's in your blood. Well, that's great. And it is interesting to watch how much the international, you know, like you said, value is, is there, it is not just in Christian music, secular music. I see that too. You know, it, it it's really wild, but I was going to ask you, so who all is in the band now? Like who's traveling with you when you, when you do it? Y'all had so many great people, great musicians throughout the years. 

John Schlitt [00:16:55] First of all, I want to say we got one of the best bands we've ever had. 

Rick Green [00:16:58] Nice

John Schlitt [00:16:58] Yeah. I can say that as a singer. 

Bob Hartman [00:16:59] It's John and myself and John Lowry on keyboards, who's been in the band for decades. And then we have Greg Bailey on bass, who has also been with the band for, oh, I think over 20 years now. 

John Schlitt [00:17:18] Yeah, it's been over 20 years. 

Bob Hartman [00:17:19] And our newest member who's been with the band for over a decade is Christian Borneo and he's from Argentina and that's the story in and of itself but he's a great drummer and a great friend and we have a lot of fun on the road and it's just really, really fun. 

Rick Green [00:17:44] Love it. 

John Schlitt [00:17:46] It's nice to be a singer of a band that consists of four amazing musicians. It's really a treat for me. I walk on stage going, you're gonna hear good stuff, trust me. 

Rick Green [00:17:58] Well, you know what's amazing to me and being a child of the 80s and loving, you know, any music from the 80's more than more than anything else. Is how your voice doesn't change. Like you when I hear you now. I mean, it's like the same. So how? It's like you would think it's any other muscle, but I mean you sound the same. How do you explain that? 

John Schlitt [00:18:16] Well, I'll tell you what, I went through a little bit of a challenge about six months ago while I was recording the album. 

Rick Green [00:18:23] Oh, really? 

John Schlitt [00:18:24] Yeah. And I, I, couldn't figure out why everybody in the band goes, John, what's going on with you? What's going, cause you know, Oh, it doesn't matter. I'm getting older. Don't what's wrong with me. I finally realized that I was getting excited again and over singing. And there's just a certain way of technique that you do where you just let your voice rest, let it do its thing and find that, that sweet spot. It's amazing how, and I really think that's from God, that really is from God. Find the sweet spot that He's given you, use it, and it's amazing how far you can go. 

Rick Green [00:18:57] That's the old Eric Liddell thing, right? The Olympic runner that wouldn't run on the Sabbath. And he said, God made me fast. And when I run, I feel God's pleasure. So for John Schlitt, when I sing, I feel God's pleasure. 

John Schlitt [00:19:12] And I do, I, just the fact that we're able to sing the songs that Bob's written that I truly are, I feel are anointed. The chance to be able to sing those songs every, every night when we're on stage. I know, I know for a fact that it's going to reach people in a very positive way, not only entertaining, which I think it is, but it's also very important in a spiritual sense and it's so cool to watch people have fun and not real. And sometimes I even realize that they're getting blessed in a spiritual way, too. 

Rick Green [00:19:46] Well, it's amazing to me how music, I mean, even to this day, I don't know. I think you recorded Petra praise in '88 or '89, something like that, maybe '90. I still to this date can play those songs when I s... We Exalt You. I mean those it's like, I mean the Holy Spirit moves. So, it's, like, how did, I dunno how He does that through a recording that you did so long ago, but that praise that still comes out of that is just so powerful even to this day. So, it was pretty cool how God made us to be so connected through music. 

John Schlitt [00:20:12] Praise God. It's so cool. I love watching how he works. I love how the Petra music has gone through the years almost timeless. And it's an honor to be part of that. I came in late, or I came after Greg did a great job of creating a sound that was very, very attractive. I was a big Petra fan because of that. And when I came in, I wasn't concerned about filling his shoes, I just wanted to make sure my shoes were doing the job as well as he was. And at that time, it was a real blessing to be part of it. 

Rick Green [00:21:00] And you had done secular music initially, if I read right, became a Christian between, I forget the band now that you left, and then, and that was when Bob offered you the opportunity and y'all got together. I think y’all met on an airplane, right? Did y’all meet on an airplane or something? 

Bob Hartman [00:21:13] Well, actually, yes, that's I didn't know, very few people know that story, but I sat next to John on an airplane flight before he was a Christian. And we had a conversation. And I think it was just one of those things that God does, you know, that kind of blows your mind later. You know, I later heard he became a Christian and I thought, wow, you I remember seeing his band Head East and seeing John and John would be one of those people that I would vote would probably never would be a Christian when he was in that band. 

Rick Green [00:21:58] God loves to confound our wisdom, right? He loves it. 

Bob Hartman [00:22:02] No, God, God does that just to confound me, I think sometimes. 

John Schlitt [00:22:08] Yeah, I wasn't the most pleasant guy. Yeah, no,

Bob Hartman [00:22:12] Yeah. I should never count anyone out, you know. 

Rick Green [00:22:16] Well, thank the good Lord, he can use all of us, broken vessels for sure. 

John Schlitt [00:22:20] Amen. 

Rick Green [00:22:21] I know everybody probably asks y'all this, but I gotta get favorite song over the years. Bob, you wrote so many. You're like my, you know, Buck and Dottie Rambo were my godparents because my mom had traveled with them all those years and Dottie wrote thousands of songs. I don't know how many you wrote, but I know most of the Petra hits you wrote them. How do you pick, even when y'all go tour now, how do you only have a couple hours on stage, you gotta do the new album. You got such a collection to choose from. What do you do? How do pick your songs? 

Bob Hartman [00:22:54] You know, that is one of the hardest things that we do. And we sit down and have discussions about it. And, and, you know, the newer guys, Greg and Christian always want to reach back and do some song. But we say, well, we don't have any requests for that song. You know? We go a lot by requests of what people say they want to hear. And,... you know, there are just certain songs we have to play. And, you know, Beyond Belief is one of them for sure. 

Rick Green [00:23:30] This Means War is that is that one you you play still a lot? 

Bob Hartman [00:23:34] That's in there after. 

John Schlitt [00:23:35] Yeah absolutely 

Bob Hartman [00:23:36] I Am On The Rock is in there, Creed, you know, there are just certain songs that we have to play. 

Rick Green [00:23:44] Yeah, people leave the concert disappointed if you don't, but some of those, right? You just got to do them. Okay. So give me one. What's your favorite song that you ever recorded with Petra, John and Bob, what's your favorite one that y'all recorded and you wrote? I guess favorites not the right way. If you had to pick one, what would it be? 

John Schlitt [00:24:04] Okay, for me, I'll just go, you know, be simple. Beyond Belief, you have to play. And for me for a singer, I wanna see the crowd satisfied. So I wanna play Beyond Belief just so they're happy. There's probably some other songs that I like as much, but when it's the whole picture for the ministry, for Petra as a whole, it's gotta be Beyond Belief. 

Rick Green [00:24:28] Yeah, that's good Bob? 

Bob Hartman [00:24:30] Well, that said that's a really hard one. I can I could say one song for one reason and another song for another reason I'm gonna say Jekyll and Hyde 

Rick Green [00:24:44] All the way back, yeah. 

Bob Hartman [00:24:46] Yeah, that's a, you know, a really popular song and a lot of fun to play. And, you know, it's pretty neat. 

Rick Green [00:24:54] Let me do two things before we go. Petra, so to, so the book you guys are to find out where you're playing Petraband.com. Is that still the best, best place to go? 

Bob Hartman [00:25:02] Yes, that's right. 

Rick Green [00:25:04] Petra band.com and then for the movie, BeyondBelief.movie, BeyondBelief.movie will be in theaters at the end of the month. And you can also book it into your church and do a show there. August 28th is when it is being released. Man, what a treat! Guys, thank you. Thank you, thank you for all that you've done over the years. You haven't just been entertainers. You've literally led so many people to Christ and given, I mean, I know for me as a young guy, um, a way to, to come to know the Lord in, in a language that I could understand. That's the best way I know to say it. So, bless y'all.

John Schlitt [00:25:40]  Beautifully said, buddy, thank you. That was our goal. It always has been, it still is now. It still is now. We walk on stage and believe God's got a plan for that night and we just stay out of the way and do our best. 

Rick Green [00:25:51] Love it. Love it Bob. God bless you, man. Y'all keep up the great work 

Bob Hartman [00:25:55] You too, Rick. Thanks. 

John Schlitt [00:25:57] Thanks Rick! 

Rick Green [00:25:58] That was Bob Hartman and John Schlitt of the epic band, Petra. I mean, it just, they paved the way for so many of the Christian music, people in the Christian Music industry, especially in the, you know, Christian rock industry. Which, which I'm a fan of and I'm sure there's some of you out there that, that, that aren't, but that's okay. Trust me when I tell you it does reach people that would not be reached otherwise and, and I was one of those kids, so I'm, I'm really thankful for these guys. And certainly appreciate them taking time to be on with us here on WallBuilders. Be sure and check the movie out BeyondBelief.movie, BeyondBelief.movie. And then Petraband.com to learn more about where they're going to be touring and where you can go see them. Thanks for listening today, folks. You've been listening to the WallBuilders Show.