The 250th Celebration Begins

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Thanks for joining us today on the Wallbooter Show, the intersection of faith and culture. Always taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. And we are enjoying this week immensely. So we are right on the cusp of the 250th birthday of our nation, celebrating our Declaration of Independence and all that it stands for, all those principles that we laid the foundation on, how we organize those powers, as Jefferson says in the declaration. So it's a wonderful, wonderful week. Lots of things happening in DC and across the nation, all three of us on the road and going to all kinds of events. So we're just having a great time celebrating and of course teaching on what that foundation truly is. Rick Green here with Tim Barton, David Barton, and David's in the air right now, headed to yet another event. Tim, I think you just got back from D.C. or somewhere. I'm headed out to Nashville. I mean, man, we got we got a lot going on, bro. But thank you for, I know you're in the middle of the airport right now as we record, and we're just getting it in when we can.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

That's it. I'm waiting to get on a flight to go to DC. Uh, and we'll be up there the rest of this week. So once I get there, uh hopefully it'll be easier. Um I am super pumped tomorrow. We have our good friend Pastor Josh Person on on Friday uh for Good News Friday. We're gonna go over some really fun 250 related stuff, some really great patriotic stuff. And really, I mean, Rick, we had talked about this week just doing a lot of America history, Americana. Um, but the Supreme Court uh threw us a few curveballs that we thought we can't not talk about some of the things that have happened. And then even yesterday, it it felt very rushed uh with Nate. Uh again, we were all on the road traveling, and he was just getting into some great stuff, and we're like, bro, we're sorry, we're out of time. We'll have to have you back. So, so much to talk about today.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Well, and and one of the things I think is worth pointing out, since we had Nate last night, we're gonna have Josh on Friday. There are so many people that God has

New Leaders And New Founders Books

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raised up for this time and and these incredible ministries around the country. Of course, Josh's church up there in Washington, the amazing uh men's conference that you guys had, uh, what Nate's doing with For Liberty and Justice, all these different organizations, and and honestly, these a lot of young people coming up in their 20s and 30s that God is using and putting out front. So it's just it's really cool, and we love having as many of these folks on the program as we can, highlighting their ministries, talking about their books and different things, because we had Eric Metaxis, I think, uh uh two weeks ago about his book, Revolution, others that have come out with books this year specifically about the founders and the things that happened. And then, of course, Lies Force of Sacred Honor, the new book from Wall Builders that David and Tim just did. And we've been learning about some of those guys as well. Uh, and I love the fact that Amazon ran out, we're selling out on that book. That's just fantastic. That tells you people are hungry to know more about the founding, which means, Tim, we're getting beyond the fireworks and the hot dogs and everything else. All great. We're looking forward to big parties this weekend. Going to have a great time, but it goes beyond that. People want to, they want it to be deeper. They want to, they want to know what we are celebrating. We're waving the flag. Why is that flag worthy of being waved? Uh, totally.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

It's something that is so encouraging for us. We talk about it a lot off-air and uh hopefully enough on air that people uh kind of hear our hearts and our sentiment, how excited we are to see what God is doing. And even Rick, as you mentioned, you know, the people that God is raising up right now strategically. The reason we we wanted to have Nate and Josh on this week

Beyond Fireworks Toward Real Meaning

SPEAKER_02 3:25

is because as we talk about the foundation of the nation, we were a nation birthed from the principles of Christianity. And it's because the founding fathers were people that were raised primarily in this Christian society. They they they've learned to read so many of them with the Bible as a primary and early textbook. That the founding fathers encouraged the Bible to remain a primary textbook through education of the nation. And one of the things that that we have pointed out a lot is when you look at early America, there were so many pastors that were leading the way. And this is again where we thought, mean having Nate and Josh both pastors on to show that this is what we are seeing now that this is a return to a lot of what happened with the birth of the nation. The birth of the nation didn't come because the majority of Americans agreed with the sentiment. Actually, the founding fathers were in the minority, but they were the persistent, uh, dedicated, faithful individuals, because of their principles and courage, kept showing up, uh, stood firm on what they believed. And God used them in amazing ways. And we think we are seeing that yet again. And Rick, to your point, it's it's not people that are just looking for something to cheer for, they are looking for the truth to stand on, the cause to support and promote. And primarily, we are seeing God raise up a new generation of people that are hungry for more of Him, for more of His Word, for firm truth, not just looking for a secret-sensitive church. They're looking for someone that'll disciple and challenge and grow them in the word. And these are people that also love their country and are connecting those dots as well. So, so many positive things happening that are very exciting for

Pastors Lead Then And Now

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us.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

You mentioned it's a lot like the founding era. And I think I heard you talk about this on the uh Josh Howerton interview. Another Josh is just amazing, doing incredible work. And it's, you know, the founders, they actually reprinted a lot of the sermons from the previous generation or the previous couple of decades from guys like John Wise because those biblical principles were articulating what this nation would end up being founded upon. And so, in the same way that they did that, brought those truths back, reprinted those things, sort of like Josiah finding, you know, the law and realizing this is who we are. We're doing that in this generation. That's why all these books I mentioned, it's just so important that people are buying these and they're reading these and they're they're diving in and they're taking the classes because they really do. They want to know what's at the foundation, how do these principles actually work? So it is what you said. It's it's very much repeating what happened in the founding era.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Uh, totally. And uh because I'm sitting at an airport, uh, I don't have my computer open or I would look this up, but I was listening to 2 Chronicles um and just kind of my my daily Bible listening, and it was not

Josiah And Rediscovering Covenant

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very long ago, maybe last week, maybe the beginning of this week, um, and it was Josiah finding those scrolls. And what's interesting is he finds right like the book of the law. That's what he finds. But what what happens is when he takes it to go get some understanding. He actually goes to prophetess, uh, this this known woman of God. And it's interesting that the way that the New King James phrases it is it says, and she explained the book of the covenant to him. And I thought that's so fascinating because we look at our history, maybe like he was, and like, this is the book of the law, like these are the laws. And instead, what was illustrated to him is no, no, this is actually a covenant. This is something deeper than just law. This is a covenant that God had with his people. And I think that's also what a lot of people are rediscovering with American history, is there is a lot of covenantal kind of connection where there were people devout in their faith that were seeking to serve God and honor God. And whether it be the very specific examples we can point to from some of the early colonial charters, uh, the John Winthrop's that, you know, the easy examples where they literally do make covenants with God. There's certainly some of those examples. But even when we look at our government, uh our our US Constitution, it it established a federal government. And uh, you know, Rick, I I will ask you a trivia question. And if you know it, awesome. And if not, it's a perfect setup for what I want to say.

Why Federal Means Covenant

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Hey, what does federal mean in Latin?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Ha ha. Oh boy, I don't know the answer to that.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Uh, federal and Latin is covenants. So our federal government is a covenant government by definition. And there's some people that are like, well, you know, you could use that Latin word in more than one way. And by the time you get to the, you know, the 1800s, it was different. And this is again where I point out, like, okay, so you're telling me the founding fathers who grew up, in order to go to university back then, you had to speak English, Latin, and Greek. And and the suggestion that some seculars were going to make is they didn't know what the Latin translation of federal was. Of course they did. And when they established a federal government, they know exactly what that word means. It's a covenantal government. And again, this is part of a foundation of the nation, uh, which is super fun seeing people rediscover.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

I love that, man. So it's it's basically a covenant between the states and the people to have this federal government and uh, I mean, it's constitutional government. So, in other words, it's not just a whatever's popular at the time. There's a covenant that's written down and understood between all of the parties. But Tim, I got to ask you about the Josiah thing because I never thought about that, that it was so important that God had people in place that understood the application of the law for the king to then understand how to go live that out. How important it is for us today to have people in the pulpit, but also kind of parachurch ministries, if I could call us that at wall builders and other groups like us that are ready to answer, that are 1 Peter 3:15, ready to give an answer for the hope that's within, as applied to what government should look like. What if that prophetess hadn't didn't have the answers? Josiah's got to go figure this out on his on his own. How important is it for us to have pastors like Josh and Nate and others that are stepping up and being ready to disciple the people that are in office to be able to apply these principles that we're talking about?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Yeah, you're completely right, Rick. It's one

Pastors And Statesmen Linking Arms

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of the reasons that at Wall Builders, our name taken from the Bible book, uh, the story of Nehemiah. And Nehemiah worked with Ezra. So you so you have uh literally the the people that are applying, Nehemiah rebuilding, working with uh the the God people, right? In our case, it'd be pastors back then, right? The the priests, um, the prophets, whoever it was. But Ezra and Nehemiah, they work together. And so when they're building something for God's kingdom, it was the politicians and the pastors working together. And it's the same thing with Josiah, who's the king, going to uh somebody who can hear from God and give him guidance. And and this is what we saw in early America, literally. Uh, it's one of the things Rick you alluded to with the founding fathers, the Sons of Liberty, they reprinted pastor sermons. Uh, actually, John Adams talks about the Jonathan Mahew sermon. Uh, and I think it was like 1750s, is when Jonathan Mahey delivered the sermon, but it was on Romans 13, it was dealing with unlimited submission. And this is where the motto, rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God came from, where this pastor points out that when you have government figures that are in that position, when they cease to be godly, they cease to represent God. And then the most godly thing you can do is actually to oppose their ungodliness. And that's where, again, the motto, rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God came from. But what's interesting is John Adams said that there was not a man in Boston who had not heard or read that sermon because it had been so reprinted. And this again is a point, is it was literally pastors and politicians that were going the same direction, working often like linking up arms hand in hand for what was accomplished in America. And again, this is why we were super encouraged and wanted more people to hear about what's going on with guys like Nate Schatzline, with Pastor Josh McPherson, and they're just some of many, many, many of our friends that we could point to that God is raising up a new group of pastors and politicians that are now linking arms to work together, and significant things are happening in this nation.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Very

Break And Bring A Speaker

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good stuff. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break. We come back, we'll hit some of these Supreme Court decisions and talk a little bit more about some of the activities for Independence Day, not just coming up this weekend. But don't forget, we got a whole year of the 250th between July 4th, 2026 and July 4th, 2027. Lots of great work we can get done during that time. Stay with us. You're listening to the Wall Builders Show.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Hey, this is Tim Barton with Wall Builders. And as you've had the opportunity to listen to Wall Builders Live, you've probably heard the wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, about all the things that makes America exceptional. And you might be thinking, as incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the wall builders guys to come to my area and share with my group, whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school or public school or some political event or activity. If you're interested in having a wall builder speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.wallbuilders.com, and there's a tab for scheduling. And if you'll click on that tab, you'll notice there's a list of information from speakers' bios to events that are already going on, and there's a section where you can request an event to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties and freedoms. Go to the wall builders website and bring a speaker to your area.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Welcome back to the Wall

Supreme Court Mixed Bag

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Builder Show. Thanks for staying with us talking about uh not only Independence Day, but some of the items in the news over the last 48 hours. And Tim, it was a mixed bag, of course. Good, the bad, and the ugly. We had some good decisions, the you know, upholding the um, you know, get getting men out of women's sports. We had a decent decision on upholding the president's power to hire and fire at least the FTC and most of those agencies under the executive branch, but then a weak decision on the Federal Reserve firing, uh, but not really a decision so much as sending it back down to the court to see if there was cause. But the big one, bro, birthright citizenship. And we kind of predicted this. We kind of knew, uh expected Amy Coney Barrett and Roberts to go that direction of unfortunately, you know, giving a decision that basically allows for people to come in and undermine our entire system. Literally have babies here and take them back home to their country, raise them to be communist, and yet they're gonna have a voting power to come back when they're 18. It's unbelievable how they decided this decision. And I don't know about you, but I didn't have time to read 200 pages today. So I fast-forwarded to the most important part, which is always Clarence Thomas's thoughts. What did he have to say? So I read Thomas's dissent, but I haven't read the rest of it. And boy, he takes them, takes them to task. Very bad decision. Not the end of the story. We can still do an amendment to define citizenship. We can work on things. Trump's already said we can try to get something done in Congress. But man, this was this was definitely a setback on even the concept of citizenship in America.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah, big time it was a setback. Uh as you mentioned, we weren't really surprised, unfortunately. Um, we we kind of thought this was coming. And this is something too that even during uh President Trump's first administration, uh, some of the voices that were around him advising him on good justices that he should nominate for the Supreme Court, you know, we were critical and skeptical uh of several of those along the way because there was evidence of some decisions they had made that suggested they might not be as strong as uh some people suggested they were. So this is not unfortunately a really big surprise. Now, there are the caveats too, because there were other decisions um where they clarified that temporary status, like for the Haitians, it actually means temporary status. You don't come here for 15 years

Birthright Citizenship And Thomas’s Dissent

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on temporary status. So the good news is that President Trump at this point can still deport people who are not supposed to be here legally, and we can still secure the border. That there are still things that can be done, including the SAVE Act. Um, and and so there are steps that can be taken, even short of a constitutional amendment, which is just a Herculean task to accomplish that. Uh, which unfortunately, uh, unless you have a different set of facts uh for a case going at the Supreme Court, they're probably not taking up another one like this anytime soon. Uh and then uh the only way to really alter that is you have to have a different court several decades down the road, or uh you have to do a constitutional amendment. And so right now, the the best and easiest thing to do is pass some clarifying laws and then enforce the laws that are on the books, which I think President Trump is fully on board with doing, but also then it matters what happens in this midterm election because it it will take some legislative support to get some of this stuff done. Uh and what we are seeing right now is by and large, uh the Republicans are having a very hard time getting the bodies of the Senate and the House to support some of these things, a lot of dissension among the ranks, um, a lot of chaos. And so, first of all, as Christians, is a really good prayer point for us. Uh, but also then we need to make sure that we are staying as engaged as we can to help this process along the way. So, uh Rick, you mentioned it's a mixed bag. There really are some positive things that came down. Um, and then some of the things that came down that were not good uh again, were not fully surprising. So some of this we saw coming. And I think again, that's probably why President Trump was pushing the Save Act so hard. One of the other cases that uh was a pretty uh significant challenge is the fact uh that in Mississippi, the the idea that ballots, as long as they're as long as they're postmarked by election day, they can come in five days late and it's no problem. And for anybody that didn't pay attention to the Los Angeles mayor's race, as an example, where the Republican was in a strong second place, like mathematical impossibility for him to lose. The person in third place, that lady gives her concession speech, she cries, and then all of a sudden, they over the next couple of days, they're finding thousands and tens of thousands of ballots all for this one person. This is the concern and the fear that the Supreme Court, again, by allowing allowing votes and ballots to come in days after the election, you then don't have an election day. And then it allows the opportunity for dishonest people to try to continue to do dishonest things. So definitely a mixed bag. Um, it's good that we have some clarity on some of the obvious basic things. Um, that hey, biological males should not be competing against women. That's just ridiculous. Some of the obvious things were secured, but some of the things that should not have been super confusing certainly became convoluted by not having enough clearance thomas voices on the U.S. Supreme Court.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yeah, man. And and and one of the things that that you know Thomas points out really strongly in his dissent on the on the birthright citizenship case is that the majority, uh Chief Justice Roberts and Barrett and the others, they they based their decision on feudal principles. In other words, like medieval times, not on the U.S. Constitution. So they were literally going back to these things that aren't even part of our history and our our actual constitutional governance, ignoring practically the text or really changing the text of the actual constitution. He was you know basically saying, why are we looking to this stuff from all the way back in how feudal lands were dealt with and feudal births uh instead of what our our actual history is? And then it's as he always does so well, he takes us through the entire history of the K of the Fourteenth Amendment. Um and then there's of course that great quote from the the U.S. Senator that offered the 14th Amendment in the Senate side saying, Oh, this will never be, you know, be applied to foreigners and and people that are here illegally. It'll only apply to this is supposed to apply to freed black slaves. And so anyway, he he does a great job of giving that history. It's just so sad that they would base such an important decision on literally, you know, feudal principles instead of actual constitutional principles.

Original Intent And Legislative Record

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Now, Rick, also, because you've been in the state legislature, you've been a lawmaker, help us out on this because I I know with a lot of the state legislators we work with, there's often strategy involved that when they are presenting a bill, they often in in their presentation, uh, they want to get on the record what the bill means and doesn't mean, what it says and doesn't say that way. If there's ever confusion, someone can go back and go, oh, here's what that specifically means. And it seems like that's what the senator did with the 14th Amendment. So, so my question is big picture. Is that something that uh needs to happen a specific way for legislators to get that on the record to bring clarity when judges look in the future? Or is it something, unfortunately, that we live in this uh core institution, uh, the witch's brew, where they they don't really care what's there and they're just making stuff up for their own intent. Uh, what say you on this?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah, man, you described it exactly right. I mean, we we call it intent because it's literally cracking open the head of that person that's passing the law and telling us, okay, what's really going on? What do they really mean? Because it can be confusing. You know, you write a statute or you do a constitutional amendment and and you you get 100 years down the road, words mean different things. And so you're trying to figure out, okay, what do they really mean by subject to the jurisdiction thereof uh with regard to people that are that are born here? And, you know, Jefferson had this great quote. Even though he didn't do the constitution, he still was involved in constitutional interpretation later as president and in other roles. And he said, you what you do is you get in the time machine and you go back. He didn't use those words, but he he said you basically carry yourself back to the times that those things were put into the constitution or into a statute, and you listen to the debates, you read the debates, and you basically figure out what they were actually saying and intending by that phrase or that law. So what you said is exactly right. That's what this senator did. That's what I used to do as a legislator. Anybody passing laws, you get up and you you have, you know, that that legislative intent, or in this case, what we would call original intent, literally the name of your dad's book, you establish that intent so that 50 years, 100 years down the road, when they're trying to figure out what you intended, man, it's right there in the record. And we, of course, had that here. And unfortunately, I think you're right on the second part of what you said. Some justices, they just want the outcome to be what they want the outcome to be. And so they look at other areas instead of looking at original intent. Of course, Thomas and Alito have been trying to pull us back towards original intent for you know a couple of decades now. They've they've had a lot of great decisions. Or dissents that that argued for that and tried to bring us back to it. And in this case, they just they they lost. They didn't have the votes. Man, they make some good arguments in the dissent. But unfortunately, the other side, I think, really wanted this,

Roberts, Barrett, And Court Politics

SPEAKER_00 22:11

wanted this outcome.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah, and I do think, too, that Roberts uh feels like they should only spend so much political capital on things that he views as controversial. And I I honestly think that he thinks if they they side too much on the conservative side, uh, and and they don't have decisions on both, that it's going to feel like it's partisan, it's going to undermine uh the integrity of the court. I think he really believes that. I've heard him say some things that kind of allude to that point. And so I do wonder sometimes too if he is biased in his decision, thinking, you know what, I gave one to the right, let me give one to the left. But even backing up to like this idea of intent, uh I think of the case, it was the Church of the Holy Trinity versus United States. Uh that this was uh 1892 because I think it was 1885. The US had passed a stay on immigration. And so uh that they they stopped immigration because there were too many foreigners coming in and it was cheap labor and Americans weren't getting jobs. And this is this is 130 something years ago, right? That's like 40 years ago, whatever it was. It's crazy, it's a long time ago, but they dealt with this issue back then. And there was a church that had brought in a pastor from over in Europe, and this was challenged because they said, wait a second, we have a we have this hold on immigration. You brought this pastor in, and the case went to the Supreme Court because I said, Look, this is our denomination, we needed a pastor, and so the denominator, like over in Europe, they sent us this person to lead our church. And the Supreme Court, in their decision, they said that if we are trying to interpret the First Amendment, what we should do is go back, and this is their quote, determine the evil which was intended to be remedied. And they said, if you want to understand why the first amendment was there, uh, or even why the immigration law was passed in both of these uh kind of laws dealt with this case, they said that the immigration law was not trying to stop pastors from coming and leading churches. It was trying to uh allow opportunities for American workers and all these jobs, the First Amendment, when it was done, it was not trying to, or it was trying to protect the idea that people have the freedom of worship according to their conscience. And if you don't allow them to have a pastor, they can't. Anyway, the Supreme Court landed on the right side of this, but they're the way they got there, they said we need to determine the evil which was intended to be remedied. And as you point out, when you look at the evil intended to be remedied by the 14th Amendment, it was offering citizenship to those who had been enslaved, kidnapped, brought here, in many cases illegally under slave trade, it was supposed to already have been shut down by law. And so what they were dealing with is not at all what we are dealing with today. So if you look at what evil they were trying to remedy, it's not confusing. It should have offered great clarity, but I do wonder if between uh Chief Justice wanting to look neutral and therefore feels like both sides need to win some, um, or if it's just really a lack of constitutional understanding has grown extreme. Maybe a combination of both, but it seems like they definitely missed the original intent of the 14th Amendment.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Man, I think your analysis is spot on. And I think it's not just Roberts. I think Barrett has a I I now this is me just kind of reading into it, but I've heard other people that that agree on this. She has this self-consciousness that she doesn't want to be seen as siding with Trump too much because he appointed her to the court and because he's such a polarizing figure. And it is kind of the pros and cons, right, of having such an effective president, such a huge personality that's able to do all the things that he's done that are good. It does have a downside. And that downside is when people like her, you know, just want to do whatever they can to distance themselves from him and end up, I think, being, you know, even if she doesn't even realize it's happening subconsciously, she's gone the wrong direction on both the mail-in ballot thing and on this one. So that's just a little psychoanalysis. I don't have any evidence or proof of that, but it sure seems like you're right that that there's just a desire on these judges' part to, oh, I can't go too far siding with one particular administration or or party. And man, sure hasn't negative effect.

The 250th As A Civic Reset

SPEAKER_00 26:10

But like we said, good to bad and the ugly. There were some very good decisions, uh, definitely some ugly ones for sure, and some bad ones. And uh it doesn't change our duty. We just keep it, you know, staying in the fight and doing the things that we're doing. And Tim, as we said, what a great opportunity, man. The 250th is our best chance of our lifetime to educate people on these principles so that we get more good decisions in the future because we end up with more Supreme Court justices that were taught these things and voters that vote for presidents that will appoint good justices. So it definitely comes back to educating on these things and having more Josiahs out there. Thanks for listening today. You've been listening to the Wall Boulder Show.