Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's a WallBuilders Show. Thanks for joining us today. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Websites, wallbuilders.com and wallbuilders.show. And there's a lot going on those websites right now because of the 250th. Well, there's always a lot of going on around here at WallBuilders, but the 250th it's like, I don't know, regular schedule on steroids guys. I think we're probably all going to double our regular airline miles, which is already a lot every year, but this year is crazy in such a good way. The message of WallBuilders and restoring America's Godly heritage and bringing back our history has never been more prime and more people willing to listen and, and actually then go be force-multipliers with it. So we're seeing a lot of celebrations out there, even not related to what we're doing, just a lot of good stuff going on. 

David Barton [00:00:56] Hey man, when we came into this year, I thought we were prepared, because we told scheduling, hey, let's only do half of what we think we're going to do. Only schedule half of all we think because there's going to be at least that many. That wasn't enough. I mean, doing only half and having double the media, it's turned out to be more than that. And it's like, man, every day there's like two or three things going on instead of one a day. It's like 2 or 3. And I know just in the last 10 weeks of the election, I'm scheduled to do more and a hundred Pastor's Briefings. In the last 10 weeks. So that's like 10 pastor's briefings a week, not counting all the other stuff that's going on. So it's crazy, man. 

Rick Green [00:01:33] In a good way. We're, we're thrilled that the audience is receptive. Right guys? We got a, we got a prime, what's the right analogy? The, the ground is tilled and we're going and planting some Liberty seeds throughout the year. So Tim, you got, you've had a crazy schedule too. And of course, a lot of stuff in DC, which is, you know, y'all been going to DC for 30 years. So that's nothing new there, but the amount of not, not just the frequency of going But the access and the, and the right people and just the way that then people are taking it back to their communities. And, you know, even, even the pastor's briefings that, that DB is going to be doing, I mean, it just seems like this is a very, we're seeing fruit maybe from years before, but it feels like we're planting a lot of new seeds too. But I just, man, I'm excited about what we're getting to do right now. 

Tim Barton [00:02:17] Yeah, there's so much going on. And one of the things also, just plugging it real quick, we have mentioned the new book coming out, Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honor, the Signers of the Declaration. It is available for pre-sale this week already on Amazon. It will go live this next week. I believe June 23rd is when it actually goes live. But also something that is available right now is we have done some really nice reprints of Thomas Jefferson's original draft of the Declaration, in which. As we are having this conversation 250 years ago today, the Committee of Five is meeting. Jefferson has been more or less entrusted with working on writing this. So, Jefferson is actually working on that language on this day 250 years ago. And if people want to be able to have a reprint, a replica of that original draft from 250 years ago. It's again, a really cool thing that we did at WallBuilders, having those four pages. There's a QR code in the little packet it comes with that also goes to some articles, giving some more detail, some in-depth look at some of what was in the Declaration, the significance of it, et cetera. So, a lot of cool stuff on the website, or if you want to go in advance this week on Amazon and pre-order a copy of the Lives, Fortunes and Sacred Honor book, which will go, again, it should go live next Tuesday, June 23rd. All of this to say, yes, that Rick, there is so much happening with traveling and speaking. And yesterday as, as we were just really kind of highlighting some of, the, the really fun weekend that we saw a lot of leftist tears, a lot frustrated people from some of what was happening. And we really didn't get into some of the levels of hypocrisy and irony when there are people, even some that would claim to be on the right, criticizing some of, what's going on. And one of the things that, that I would say is if you just do a pretty simple compare and contrast, look at the way the White House has been highlighted the last two years, and then go back and look at, look, at 2024, what, what the Biden administration was doing at the White House. And it should not be confusing. And there are people right now who are more frustrated with what President Trump is doing to celebrate, to honor America, to do patriotic things, than they were with what Joe Biden was doing as he was celebrating sin and debauchery at the White House. So there's levels of irony. All that to say is we got caught up in stuff yesterday and didn't get to actually even spend much more time expanding in that conversation. Cause again, we had our good friend Ben Carson on yesterday. Who is telling some of his project and work. So there's a lot more stuff happening in DC than we've had a chance to get into with some of the new statues and monuments that are on display and some that will be coming on display later this year, some even later this summer. So, there is a lot of fun stories to tell and a lot fun stuff to talk about for sure. 

David Barton [00:05:24] And Tim, let me back up for a minute. Cause you said we've got the, the Declaration that we now have available people and get it and I'll just throw it out there. Don't think that this is like going online and reading the Declaration or I've read the Declaration. You haven't read this Declaration. This is in Jefferson's handwriting. It is really cool. It's a reproduction of what his grandson found when they got into Jefferson's papers back in 1828, two years after his death. They're going through it. And so this is that one that they saw, which is the original handwriting. And you'll also see some handwriting in there from John Adams and from Ben Franklin. 

Tim Barton [00:05:56] And Dad, to clarify it's not the handwriting from John Adams and Franklin, it's some edits that are made and Jefferson does an annotation where he says this was suggested by John Adams this was by Franklin. 

David Barton [00:06:08] Good point. Yeah. 

Tim Barton [00:06:09] So just to clarify, it doesn't have all of their handwriting on the document. But also worth noting, as you mentioned, that this is the reprint of the original draft that Thomas Jefferson wrote in his own hand and it's nearly entirely in cursive. So for people that were not taught to read cursive, this would be a challenge for you. But hey, what better way to learn to read cursive than from the original draft of the Declaration. You certainly can find the text. I mean, again, there's some QR codes with it that will take you to articles that are not in cursive, that you can read and get more details and information, but Dad, to your point, it is very cool because the four pages are matching the size of the very first reprint of this done in I think 1829, is when the first reprint was done. And these are these are copies of that very first re-print and it's done in this really nice high quality kind of linen paper, again, trying to match a lot of what it looked like from that that very first one when you mentioned Jefferson's grandson in... After Jefferson died in 1826, the grandson began going through some of the writings. And I think it was 1828 when he decided that they wanted to take a lot of those writings and make them into a multi-volume set of the Writings of Jefferson. And that's when he found the original draft of the Declaration in Thomas Jefferson's own hand and thought, man, people would love to see this. And instead of just taking the text and putting it in there, he actually said, what if we, that there's a way to make a copy of this and there was, compared to our technology today... very rudimentary technology but they found a way to be able to more or less do like an ink lift and then make a steel printing plate and they were able to print off these original copies that went in 1829 that went into this multi-volume set of Thomas Jefferson's handwritings which we actually have some of those. And so we've actually at times as we travel and speak we've been able to take the first printing of the original draft that happened right there from the grandson after Thomas Jefferson died, and we've shown people. That this is the very first copy of the original draft, what it looks like. Well, now people can actually own their own copy. And this is a big deal for, for any homeschool parent out there, for any teacher, whether you are in a public or private school and actually, uh, I mean, honestly, just for, for families in general. And these are nice enough that honestly, you would take these, you could put them in a really nice frame up on the wall, uh, you know, go to Hobby Lobby, wherever else they can frame them for you. But this is, this is something that In the midst of all of the history we are trying to reclaim and re-teach in America, these are the kind of things that they're... the children that in America today that are in these different academic institutions, they're learning the exact opposite of the truth of what is actually in this document, that the Founding Fathers believe that there was a God and our rights come from Him, and He made us equal, and He gave us these inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And when you start looking at this document and then realizing the longest grievance in the original draft is a grievance against the slave trade, actually arguing against slavery as well, and arguing for the humanity of all that were enslaved, some of the only words in the entire original draft, it's four pages, there's only a couple words in the draft that are not in cursive, and the two most significant ones, arguably, the opening line, United States of America, that's printed. The rest is in cursive until you get to this final draft and there's two words there that are not in cursive and I'm not gonna give away the end. You need to look up the draft, you need to read it but if you wanna have a copy for yourself, go to wallbuilders.com and you can get this and it's very well done and again, it's something that all of our kids and grandkids, they need to learn this history to once again, remember or maybe learn for the first Tim, who these Founders were and what their values actually were, as opposed to what modern academics say about them today. 

David Barton [00:10:11] And with that original Declaration, it is so awesome to be able to use it. But I took that with me that 1829 that when the first printing came out, took it with me to a state legislature and state legislators were gathered around that look and that's it. That's the original. And by the way, it took Jefferson 17 days. He sat at a table and poured over the wording for 17 days. And so you'll see his own mark outs where he's marked out some words, change some words. Things that he's thought about over the days, and maybe this would be better. And so you see the progress of this going through. And when he consulted Adams and Franklin, but as it gets through, they read that clause that Tim, you were just talking about, about Jefferson's condemnation of slave trade, even slavery. And they said, wait, wait, wait, wait, this isn't the original? We were always told Jefferson was pro-slavery and he was a racist. Yeah, that's exactly what you were told, but you haven't seen the original documents and there are so many things in there that will change your view about a lot of stuff. And I think that's something else we discovered in writing the book, The Lives, Fortunes and Sacred Honor. I thought I kind of knew these guys. I, you know, I've studied the 56, but there were so many stories about these guys and it struck me, there really are individuals. Somehow, I had kind of put them into the group of Signers of the Declaration and made them all the same group. And they're so very different from each other as you get into it. Some of them didn't even like the other guys, but they agreed to the principles. And so there's just a lot of stuff there, but that original draft of the Declaration, Tim said that, Tim, you mentioned that's great for framing, it is a real talking piece when people see that and say, what is that? That's the original draft, Jefferson's handwritten draft. It is awesome. And it is awesome, not just for your kids to learn, but for every one of us to learn as well. 

Rick Green [00:11:57] All right, you guys are gonna laugh, because as Tim was, you know, listing off all the people that would really enjoy these homeschool mom, legislators, yada, yadda, yada. You didn't list, um, radio co-host. Because I got the email this morning. I had no idea y'all were doing this. Y'all kept a secret from me. No, I know we're just all so busy. We don't even know what's going on. Uh, I got the email this morning, like 10 o'clock this morning. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. We have this now. I already ordered one. I went online and ordered one y'all probably would have given me one, I know, but I went online and ordered because I've always loved this, that, you know, the scratched out version. And I think y' all, I think you all may have seen, I don't know if y'all have seen our Thomas Jefferson bronze. Have you all seen the big bronze Thomas Jefferson that sits out front of our, of our legislative hall of the campus? 

Tim Barton [00:12:34] Yes, I have. 

Rick Green [00:12:35] Yeah. So it's the, it's, when you, he's sitting there writing the Declaration and it's this scratched out. So I love this, guys. I had no idea. This is a collector's item for anybody that loves the Founders and loves the Declaration and you want to learn as well. So not only do you get the, if I'm reading this right, you guys confirmed this for me, but I think I'm getting a, I'll get the print out of the, you know, the nice eight and a half by 14 or 11 or whatever it is eight and a half, by 14 that looks really cool on the kind of the dark parchment color. But then you also have essentially a, a,  a primer on why he scratched certain things out or why things were changed. So you're not just having to go in there and interpret it yourself. You guys have given us essentially a guide to be able to learn that. And it's more than just, well, what got argued about at the Continental Congress. It's really a look into what was going on at the time, the changes they could make at the time and that they couldn't. So it's essentially a history lesson as well. 

Tim Barton [00:13:31] Yeah, there's a couple of articles that we'll have links to. There's actually a little packet that comes with it that will have some high-level overview explanation. Like, Dad, as you just mentioned, that he was 17 days working at his desk to do this, making edits along the way. It gives a high- level overview of how it happened, and then there's a little QR code that you can scan. It takes you to a article on the website where we give a little more breakdown of what was in it and of what happened some when they finally take it to the floor and they begin discussing it. And there's edits made along the way. And some things are changed, some things you're added, some things removed and we talk about the most significant thing that was removed, where Thomas Jefferson lamented that that was the one that frustrated him the most. The longest grievance that he spent the most time on is the one didn't make it, that bothered him the most. And so we spent a little time going into that. And with all of this, there's a lot of head nods and pointing back to original sources. So... If people want to dive deeper than what we did on kind of a higher level explanation and overview, then certainly there are links to different writings and letters that you can go in and gain even more context on. But yes, super fun. Anybody that loves America, and actually, by the way, you know, Rick, as you mentioned, not only, for, for our incredible co-hosts that we love spending time with every week. But, but this is something that for a lot of people, as we've had to have a lot of conversations and navigate over the last several years and arguably maybe decades, these rather faulty accusations, these dishonest accusations about how America was so fundamentally racist, and actually uniquely racist, and we were worse than anywhere else in the world, blah, blah. This is one of the really great tools that you can add to your toolbox to help explain to people why so much of these arguments and accusations are nonsense. Which, again, head nod to yesterday, we talked about so many fun videos on social media where people from other nations are coming to America and discovering great things about America. I saw another one this morning where there was a guy, and well, actually, I saw several, because there was bunch of Scots guys who took over house and they start bag piping at 630 every morning. And at first, the neighborhood they were staying in, they got an Airbnb. The neighborhood didn't know what to do with these guys, but then it started being fun. They invite him over there's now a neighborhood barbecue. And, but the video I saw this morning a guy walking the beach in Florida and said man is crazy I I've only heard about how crazy and bad America is and it's awful and rundown and trash. He says but I'm here in Florida. He's from Australia, he says, the beaches here are every bit as nice as Australia, but there's no trash There's not a bunch of bad people and homeless, et cetera. I do think it's interesting that most of the positive videos we've seen guys have come from conservative states. We haven't really seen a lot of really positive social media videos from foreigners coming from Democrat cities or Democrat states, but again, all of it, I, I I I'm adding this on because it's one of those things when people come and see some of what's here, they, they actually appreciate and realize, Oh, what I've heard is not actually true. That's what this printing of the original draft of the Declaration can do for you. You can help people know, oh, hey, the things that you heard, not entirely true. And here's part of what makes a difference. So definitely would encourage people, uh, if you want to have another tool in your toolbox to help navigate some of those tough conversations, go to wallbuilders.com and look for Thomas Jefferson's Original Draft of the Declaration of Independence. 

Rick Green [00:17:09] All right, two things is we're going to break. When you get to the website there, wallbuilders.com, you definitely need to scroll all the way down to the bottom in the last panel, subscribe, because that's how I found out about it. That's how you can find out about when these new things come out and Wall Builders does not bombard you. So you're only gonna get these emails when there's something important for you to be aware of, whether it's a new thing coming out or something happening in the country. But make sure you go to the bottom of the page first, subscribe to the email list, and you would have gotten the notice that I got this morning, and you learn about these cool things. And the second thing is... Then right there in the store, you can you can also preorder the Lives, Fortunes, Sacred Honor that Tim was talking about, but you can go ahead and get that Thomas Jefferson original draft of the Declaration of Independence as well. We're gonna take a quick break. When we come back guys. I want to ask you about some of those guys in the new book that we don't know anything about. Some of the names that people are completely unfamiliar with that you can tell us about before our programs over today. Stay with us folks. You're listening to the WallBuilders show. 

[00:19:08] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Lives, Fortunes, Sacred Honor. We know the phrase from the Declaration. We don't know all the guys that actually did that, that actually pledged to each other their lives, fortune, sacred, honor, many of which gave some or all of those three things. David, Tim, you covered all 56 of them in the, in the book. So you got to spend a little bit more time with them. Not that you haven't spent a lot of time with him in the WallBuilders library, but I'm sure some of it was review  for maybe some of the lesser known. Of these signers and David, you were saying you used to just throw them all in this bucket and say they're the Signers, but you found out how, how really different they were. Tell us about some of the guys that we aren't familiar with. 

David Barton [00:19:43] Well, there's a couple that I would pick as fun stories. So to do that, it's, I'm going to start people we are familiar with, but it's a story I'd never heard before until I was reading their, their writings and went through this, but is back early at the start of the revolution for John Adams, Ben Franklin, and those are going to be two Founding Fathers. I think everybody knows everybody recognizes no secret to those guys, except there was so many stories about them. And so as it turns out in the early year or so of the Continental Congress. You have both Adams and Franklin traveling, going to various sites, building up support for the Continental Army and for Continental Congress. And they're having to travel to different locations and investigate and see things and bring word back to Congress. And on one of their trips, they were out and it was an overnight trip and they needed a place to stay for the night. So they went to an inn, checked in. Do you have a place for two? Yeah, we got a place or two. And they were shown one room with one bed. So, they have one room with one bed for the two of them. And John Adams described the room as being so small that it was almost wall to wall bed. So, the bed took up most of the little room. And so, he and Franklin agreed to sleep in that bed that night. And there was a little window over the top of the bed. And so, Franklin said, hey, open that window, we need fresh air tonight. And John Adam said, I'm not opening that window every time I open the window at night, I get a cold. I'm gonna open the window. And so they went into this discussion over whether you should sleep with an open window. And John Adams said that, that Franklin started going through all the papers he had done on sleeping under open windows, all the research he had done under sleep and open windows. And he was just going on and on and on about the science of it. And John Adam's actually fell asleep while he was talking. And so, Franklin is going through giving all this information on why it's important to sleep under open. And like an hour later, John Adams awakens and Franklin is still going on. John's been asleep for all this time. Franklin's still going. And he said he awakened in time to see Franklin still talking and Franklin nodded off himself. So, he actually put himself to sleep, talking to John Adams about the scientific. And so those are two guys I knew, but I had never thought of the interaction that they had with each other and kind of the back and forth and how unique their characters were. So that was a fun one for me just seeing art, even the guys, I think I know I really don't know, but then I got into 

Rick Green [00:22:04] Wait, wait David, I just want to, I want to make sure on the record that people know that when you talk about science on the program, I only fall asleep once in a while. 

David Barton [00:22:14] Well, when I put myself to sleep, you'll notice it's really bad. And when I pull a Franklin and talk myself into sleep, then yeah. 

Rick Green [00:22:22] When the audience hears us throwing things at David in studio, you'll know that's why. 

David Barton [00:22:27] That's right. Let's keep awake. 

Rick Green [00:22:29] Sorry. 

David Barton [00:22:30] The other one that was surprising to me was look, I knew that out of the 56 guys, seven did not survive the Revolution. So when we talk about lives, fortune, sacred honor, seven of them died before the Revolution was over. Some was a direct result of the British and in fortunes, a whole lot of them lost their fortunes. They voluntarily gave it up. Some that the British took it from them. They were never repaid, but none of them ever lost their sacred honor in the sense of going back on their word or reneging or anything. There's no example of the loss of sacred honor on the part of those 56 signers. But as I was looking at the ones who, who lost their life and there, one of them was a guy named Button Gwinnett and Button Gwinnett, well, he was the Georgia. He was the governor of Georgia at the time. He's a signer from Georgia. Georgia was really one of the least populous colonies of the 13 but not, not that many people there. It was still pretty much frontier in a lot of ways, not, not nearly as, as built out as Philadelphia and New York and places like that. So, as the battle starts moving, when it starts in 1776, it's mostly up North. And then over the next two to three years, it starts moving into the South and gets into South Carolina and North Carolina moves on toward Georgia. And as British were coming into Georgia, Button Gwinnett was made Commander in Chief of all the military forces in Georgia. Because Georgia's got to raise its own troops to be able to fight the British. You can't send the Continental Army down from New York. You got to have some troops there. And so, the battle was fought by combination throughout the war was fought by combination of Continental army troops, which were the national guys, and also the militia guys, which are the state guys and local guys. And so, Button Gwinnett is now Commander in Chief over all the troops in Georgia and part of that included the Continent troops. Washington had raised some Continental troops there and there was a general named General Lachlan and Lachlan was over the Continental Army. So, what happens is they decide that if we invade Florida, which is a Spanish stronghold, if we invade Florida where the British are hanging out and keeping their troops, we can disrupt British attacks into the South if we'll go after Florida. And so, what happens, is Button Gwinnett says, OK, I'm taking all the troops we've got now because the Continent Army is here and we're going into Florida and chase the British out of Florida. And General Lachlan said, no, I'm the Commander of the Continental troops. You're just the governor. And they went back and forth over who had charged the forces and it got to where that they challenged each other to a duel. And so here you have American fighting another American as it turns out, um, both were wounded, but, but Button Gwinnett was wounded in a way that he died within a few days after the wound. But here's a guy who lost his life in the war, but it wasn't to the British. He lost it to an American Continental Army general. And that was like a shock to me. I never thought about friendly fire, if you will. But it was egos and which brought me back to the fact that these are all humans, they're all people there not special guys and they're not special angels just because we say they did remarkable things, which they did. God used them. But that just drove home to me how individual each one of these guys were that you have one American kill another American who was a Signer of the Declaration over a matter of pride and honor, who's going to be in charge here and who gets the credit for it. And so that's some of the stuff too that we learned in doing this is really how human these guys are, but they are inspirational stories despite all that. 

Tim Barton [00:26:02] And maybe even a little optimistic that in the midst of infighting, you can still win in the end. Yeah. In the midst navigating our political nonsense right now. And Rick, I know we're out of time. I just want to say maybe tomorrow, I've got a bunch of great stories I want to highlight. Let's do it. We're out time today. 

Rick Green [00:26:18] Well, you know, Tim, I was thinking, as you said that, yeah, we get frustrated at some of these, um, intra party fights where people fight over petty rules and different things like that, but at least we're not having duels, you know, we're shooting each other. So that's good. Anyway. All right. If they can get through that and still say, you know, launch the country, we can get through our challenges and save the country. All right, be with us again tomorrow. We got Foundations Freedom Thursday and some stories from the Founding Fathers and then of course, Good News Friday coming up this Friday. Thanks for listening to the WallBuilders Show.