Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us today on the WallBuilders Show where we take on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton, and guys National Day of Prayer, of course, a rich tradition in America and man, there's gatherings happening all over the country today. A lot of them will be breakfast gatherings. Some people will do it around lunch and then leave me some candlelight events tonight. But it's a wonderful, wonderful day. And not something new in American history. You guys have all kinds of prayer proclamations hanging right there at the WallBuilders headquarters 

Tim Barton [00:00:41] Yeah, we do, and I'm actually up in Maryland this morning getting ready to do a breakfast. And it's East Coast time, and it is super wee early hours for all of us. But there is so much tradition when it comes to faith in America. One of the things I'm going to point out this morning is when we became a nation, and not like when America was first discovered, quote unquote, right? From Europeans. It's not when necessarily Columbus landed here, although when Columbus landed here, they had a day of prayer and thanksgiving to thank God they survived. You can go through all of these significant moments because it was the same thing with the founding of Jamestown, the same with the pilgrims landing up in Plymouth. Every one of these these significant events we could point to in American history, all of them had had moments of prayer, if not days of prayer. And so faith was always part of this, but the very first time the Founding Fathers ever came together was September 6, 1774. John Adams wrote Abigail about that day and he says the first motion that was made was made by Thomas Cushing in Massachusetts. The motion was that they would open with prayer and he explains that they kind of debated, they discussed it, they finally agreed to bring in the local pastor, the Reverend Jacob Boucher. And when he showed up, he read initially from the prayer book and then he went into these extemporaneous prayers. And the prayer meeting, which actually included some Bible study, the midst of it, lasted for nearly two hours. And the reason I'm bringing this up is there are some people who would look at this promotion of faith, like a National Day of Prayer, and look at things that President Trump has done, or some administrations are going to do even today, encouraging people of faith to pray, encouraging Christians to engage in prayer today. And they would go, wait a second, we’re not supposed to have religion in America. And Dad, for 40 years, you've been trying to help people understand that this was literally the foundation of our nation, was this faith thing, but especially when it comes to times of prayer, at every pivotal moment in our nation's history, there were times of prayer, there were calls to prayer and fasting, there were days of prayer and thanksgiving to thank God for God's provision, even in the midst of some of the hard times. And so, this is certainly something historically that has a very long tradition, and certainly even with presidents, that this is not a new thing. Even President Trump, what's happening on May 17th up in Washington, DC, which, Dad, you and I are gonna be there for. Super pumped about it. It's something that a lot of churches are gonna streaming part of this, and hopefully Christians, wherever you are listening around the U.S., maybe around the world, it's something you will check out as well. A lot of really cool significant things happening, but what President Trump is doing... Is not a crazy or brand-new thought. If you go back to when George Washington was first inaugurated, well, we could talk about all of the religious activities that led up to that moment. But after he's inaugurated, what he and the other elected officials do is they go down to church and they go to, I believe it's St. Paul's Church, there in New York City, and they actually attended church service. There's communion. There are a lot of religious activities because they were Christian men seeking God's guidance and wanting to dedicate themselves to God. So, this idea of President Trump wanting to rededicate America to God, it is absolutely in line with the history and tradition of this nation. 

David Barton [00:04:03] Yeah, and you mentioned, Tim, not only from the Founding Era, but even Presidents, and moving forward from Presidents, I mean, we can talk about Abraham Lincoln, and we just this week were able to obtain a proclamation done by Ulysses S. Grant, 1876, and then we've got so many others going all the way through a long time. But the way we know it today as a national holiday, it actually came in two or three steps. What happened was during the Korean War which was 1951 to 1953, you had President Truman was the president at that point in time. And Billy Graham talked with President Truman and said, hey, we need a time of prayer to unite the country spiritually. So Congress in 1952 set up a public law that said every year we will have a National Day of Prayer in America. The President can choose the time and the day, but once a year we're gonna have a National Day of Prayer in America, and so it was random and Presidents would choose the time they wanted and day they wanted and whatever day of the week it was. But in 1979, it became a little more organized and so what's called the National Prayer Committee, which still exists today, it was formed to kind of organize and coordinate events on the National Day of Prayer whenever that was going to be. And so the first real organized event happened under President Reagan in 1983 at Constitution Hall in Washington, D.C. So that was the first real organized one. And then after that, they changed the legislation to make it this particular date in May. 

Tim Barton [00:05:39] Dad, let me point out, 1979, that's under President Jimmy Carter, and even though President Jimmy Carter is someone that we could look back and go, man, did he have some bad failed economic policies and ideas, and certainly much of his presidency could be considered a failure in many ways. There's a few positive things he did. But the reason I'm bringing him up is he was a person of faith. And so, as this committee is being formed, Jimmy Carter, after presidency, he went back to his church and he was Sunday school teacher at his church for decades after his presidency. And I'm saying this because this idea of having faith, specifically Christianity in America, this didn't used to be a partisan thing, this didn't use to be contentious the way it's become today. In the modern era, the last several decades, you would think that this is only the far extreme Christian Nationalist Right as the way they would want to frame us. Well, we're the ones accused of wanting to promote this, but the reality is that virtually every single president in American history acknowledges that we were a Christian nation and encourage faith to some extent or some level during their presidency. So even going back when this committee is formed to ultimately build and create what became the breakfast and a specified day when it happens. This is again during the presidency of Jimmy Carter when this is happening and Jimmy Carter was noted as a person of faith and definitely supported things of faith specifically Christianity during his presidency. 

David Barton [00:07:08] Yeah, and he did, there's no question he did. He was a man of faith, Tim, as you said, was not competent as a leader of a nation, may have been a good governor in Georgia, I don't know. But it was organized at that time. And so, after that National Prayer Committee got organized, they started working. And I mentioned that Reagan in 1983, they had it at Constitution Hall and Vice President George Bush who became President in' 88, was actually the speaker there. And so, in '88, we're able to get legislation fixed before Reagan left office that set as a specific time, the first Thursday in May of every year will be the National Day of Prayer. And so, by legislation in 1988, they got it fixed at that point in time. And the leader, and when they got to fixed at that time, there was a national committee kind of set up to guide this. It was not a government committee, but it was authorized by such. And so. Bill and Vonette Bright. Vonette Bright, Rick, you may remember Vonette, Tim, I don't know if you do it all, but they started Campus Crusade or CRU. And so, Vonette Bright was the first organizer of the National Day of Prayer for years and years and years. And then she passed it on to Shirley Dobson, Jim and Shirley Dobson became the next national leaders and they had it for a long time and now it's been passed on again. So, it's really been kind of three people since back in 88 that have been kind of the national leaders. And so, there's prayer events all over the nation. There's official prayer events in D.C. There's 24-hour prayer vigils. This is when they'll read the Bible, used to read the Bible through the night back under Vonette Bright and the Dobsons. So, this thing is pretty well established now as a specific day, but that's what today day is. It is the National Day of Prayer. It's established by federal law, first organized by Truman, but then kind of institutionalized by Reagan, and that's what we celebrate today. And Tim, as you said, looking back at Founding Fathers and early Presidents and so many things that, I mean, this has just been a part of the tradition of America for decades and centuries, literally. 

Tim Barton [00:09:19] Well, and the fact that the Founding Fathers who went on to become presidents, that virtually all of them, whether they were governor or president, issued prayer proclamations, had days of prayer and fasting and prayer and thanksgiving. And so on a Foundation of Freedom Thursday, when we usually dive into constitutional questions, this is a really good constitutional topic to hit on when there's a lot of people today, even some on the right, even conservatives and even Christians, who might question if we should be doing this if this is in fact constitutional. And I would give a very affirmative, vocal, yes, it is. This is something that the Founding Fathers supported, believed and did. And therefore, it is something that is in the line and should be continued today. 

David Barton [00:10:02] You know and while many communities have organized National Day of Prayer events and maybe there's time for you to find one around, if there's nobody around or you get the program or listen to the podcast at the time of day when maybe it's already happened, just take some people and get together, even your family, and have time of prayer for the country, time of prayer for the nation, the leaders. We're told in First Timothy pray for our leaders and those in authority, so, even if there is not an organized National Day of Prayer event going on around you. Make one yourself, even if it's just you looking in a mirror with yourself. If not, get wife, spouse, get husband, get children, get neighbors, call some people, get a Sunday school class, whatever. It's a good time together with others and pray for the nation. 

Rick Green [00:10:46] Yeah, I was thinking guys, even you know, before we go to break and start getting to questions you mentioned Truman doing that at '52 and then of course, you know, Eisenhower just a couple of years later getting "under God" added in the pledge. And, and we were just last weekend in Valley Forge at the, you know, had all the scholars up there. We went to DC and Philly and all that, but we went over to Valley Forge and after we did the, the, you know, the park there, we went to Freedom's Foundation and they have you know, that big bronze monument of Washington kneeling in prayer. They have all these really cool, the Bill of Responsibilities, just lots of cool stuff. And Eisenhower did start at that in '52 or '54. For the very same reason you guys are saying, it's like what you're saying, Tim, where people, when people say, oh, I don't know if this is a good idea, what Eisenhower and Truman and all those guys knew was that this is what distinguishes us from communism and everything else. And Reagan used to even give it that speech where he would talk about Russian Constitution says you got freedom of speech and you know, due process and all these things, but it comes from government, American Constitution and American Declaration says it comes from God. And so that, that distinguishing factor has to come back to who we are as a nation. And so, the National Day of Prayer reminds us of that. I love how they do these until I'm, I'm assuming you're probably doing the, you know, the keynote today at that National Day a Prayer, but they'll probably have a mayor read, you know or pray for a certain thing. And then somebody else will come up and pray for maybe the education in the community and another person will come up and pray for you know, the, the leaders, I mean, it's, it just really cool to see the community come together, all different denominations coming together to pray. And so, it's just a, it is just a really healthy thing for the country and a great time to be doing it this year on the 250th. 

David Barton [00:12:26] You know, and the National Day of Prayer is, by law, the first Thursday of May. But, Rick, you're talking about Eisenhower. They established National Day Prayer in '52, but in '54, President Eisenhower started the National Prayer Breakfast, which happens the first Thursday in February. And that's where they get leaders from across the world to come to America and pray together. And it'll run anywhere from five to 12,000 that prayer breakfast. And actually, the prayer breakfast occurs in the very same room where that third assassination attempt on Trump occurred at the Hilton, the Washington Hilton. That's where they have it every year. But I remember when Senator Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma was alive, he worked his tail off to get leaders from foreign nations to come pray together there. And he told me that he had specifically been able to stop three civil wars in Africa by getting the leaders from both nations to come to Washington D.C. To the prayer breakfast and pray together, and by having those opposing leaders pray together they were able to negotiate peace treaties. So, he spent a lot of time in Africa and as a Christian, as a senator, I think he told me he led 26 different national African leaders, kings of nations, to Christ while he was in Africa. As a senator I think he made more than 120 trips to Africa. God had just put that continent on his heart. And he was kind of like, I think it was Senator Carlson, who worked with Eisenhower to get Eisenhower to do the National Day of Prayer, and then with the National Prayer Breakfast was something that Jim Inhofe was really into. So, there's a lot of great things that have happened in the past, even in our, in my lifetime at least, maybe not y'all's lifetime, but in my life time, there's great things that have happen with prayer, even with other nations coming to America and learning really to pray here and pray with others here. So it is a momentous day for sure. 

Rick Green [00:14:22] Man, it's nice to be exporting something good, right? 

David Barton [00:14:25] That's right. 

Rick Green [00:14:26] Sometimes our culture exports poison to some of these other countries and it's actually nice that we're exporting some of the good stuff that made us a great nation in the first place. All right, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll come back, we'll get to your questions. Thanks for joining us today. We'll be right back on Foundations of Freedom Thursday on The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:15:50] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Getting to your questions now. First one is Nicholas. He said, greetings WallBuilders trio. Hope you're having a great day. I appreciate all you do. You have helped me take a closer look at the things I do. And I asked myself, what two things can I do to keep liberty and freedom going? One thing I was wondering if libel and slander is a chargeable offense. How is it that so many times when there are ads against or for a candidate or a piece of legislation, for example, the redistricting in in Virginia. Some ads are a complete lie, yet nothing gets done about it? So interesting question. And you know, it's interesting that Nicholas is thinking about the things he can do to make a difference is he's kind of wondering why do all these other people that are involved get to lie and they aren't held accountable. So, this is a great subject about libel and slander. And I know Clarence Thomas would like to see a much better system than what we have right now. 

David Barton [00:16:42] Yeah, this goes back to a Supreme Court case in the 1970s, well actually the 1960s, part of the Civil Rights Movement, but it was going to the 60s and 70s. And the Supreme Court ruled, and it was part of a Civil Rights movement when a newspaper was going after certain people, certain figures. And the court ruled that look, if you're a public figure, you don't get the same First Amendment protections for libel and slander. People can lie about you because your public figure. And you know, everything in the Constitution was all about the individual. It was all inalienable rights for every individual and the protection for every individual. And suddenly the Court, as it did with abortion, as it with taking out prayer and everything else, suddenly found this exemption that, well, if you're a public figure, it's okay for people to lie about you and not be held accountable. And it's almost nearly impossible to win a libel or slander suit today because of what the court did back then. Rick, you mentioned that Clarence Thomas wanted that and you and I both, as hard as it is, we've both prevailed in defamation suits against people that came after us and lied, but that is so rare and it shouldn't be that way. 

Tim Barton [00:17:56] Well Dad, one of the things I think is interesting about this, too, is one of the things the Supreme Court can easily do, and especially going back to this case you're referring to, is they could look back and go, guys, literally after George Washington, he was the exception, but after George Washington, every single presidential campaign, there's people lying about, I mean, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, one of the most ruthless campaigns with people lying this is the supporters of John Adams lied about Jefferson. Supporters of Jefferson lied about John Adams. And so, I think the argument was that this is just the expectation maybe not that it's something we should applaud and promote and maybe even approve of some extent but the expectation was that you are a political figure running for political office then this is kind of par for the courses the way it works. Now, the difference is historically, even though Jefferson didn't sue everybody that lied about him and John Adams didn't sue everybody that lied about him, there are examples of Founding Fathers targeting some of the people that did come after them and lied about them and they did win some of those cases. But then there's some examples, specifically Thomas Jefferson, where he decided that he trusted people's judgment. And he said, man, if people lie about me, I think the American people are smart enough to know what's true and what's not true. Now, unfortunately, some of the lies that were said back then have stuck around and the American people are not smart enough to know that Jefferson didn't do everything he's accused of doing today. And some of those accusations actually started during some of his political campaigns and during some his runs for office. But I do think it's interesting that historically the way that the metric was measured is because this is what has happened, there should be an expectation of it. But I think the contrast really again where the court could have dug a little deeper and gone wait a second just because the founding fathers not all of them chose to sue people or try to hold people accountable and responsible for their words that lied about them just because not all of them did it doesn't mean that should be the expectation for us today. Because there still should be some accountability and responsibility especially guys when we look and I think this is Supreme Court should go back and reevaluate and reconsider that because when you consider some of what's happened today. Where now some of these lies have led to people being doxed and people are showing up at their house because they believe these lies and we could even go down the rabbit trail of that the fact that the left has called Trump Hitler and all of us are Nazis because we believe that marriage is between a man and woman and that only women can get pregnant and there's only two genders and etc. etc. All of these accusations have led to people perceiving their political opposition, or those that maybe even have just slight disagreement with them, viewing them in a negative lens, which has led to some really evil actions on many occasions. So, I do think it's something that absolutely, that is a bad Supreme Court decision and precedent. The modern Supreme Court should go back and review like they have many other things and hopefully overturn it. But I do you think that part of the reasoning behind it was just accepting as an expectation, the reality of what has happened for a long time in America, while discounting the fact that there were some Founding Fathers that actually did pursue justice and hold people guilty in court for libeling and slandering them, etc. 

David Barton [00:21:25] You know, I think one of the interesting things out of even the history, cause Tim, as you mentioned, the campaign between Adams and Jefferson was brutal. And so was the campaign between John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson. I mean, they went into each other twice and it was just as ugly, almost, I’m going to say, almost cause historians say the first John Adams had it worse. I don't know, maybe he did, but it was a close second with John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson, what was written about them and their wives and others. And so, there was that kind of group of presidents and those presidents didn't go to court and seeking slander or libel or anything for publication of what was said. But what the court did in '72 said, well, if you're a public figure, it applies to you. What if I've never been elected in my life and I've never done anything? You mean if I simply have a social media feed that a hundred thousand people look at, I'm a public finger and you can lie about me? And that's where it got really out of bounds, was the Court started applying it to anybody who had any kind of a public presence. And that's where private citizens who have never been elected, never been in office, have nothing except enemies. And I think this really hurt the civility of America, when you could lie and have no account for it, and you could maliciously attack someone, fabricate stuff, publish stuff, and have accountability. It just kinda sent manners out the window. 

Rick Green [00:22:50] Yeah, and it really just became this overcorrection, right? They wanted us to be able to criticize our public figures and be able say what we disagreed with or point out things that were flaws in their character or whatever. And they didn't want that to be prevented or threatened with lawsuits and that sort of thing. But man, this over-correction like you're saying, David, it got to the point where, and even today, man, if you just say you believe that it was true, and I didn't know it was a lie, I actually thought it was true, that's all you need. And that's such a weak thing. I mean, if it's if it obvious or there was evidence there that would have been easy to find, or at least hear the other side, just pointing those things out should be enough to be able to say, the damage you caused as a result of your carelessness and your negligence, you should be held accountable. And to have a different standard for public figures is has just been really bad for like you're saying the public discourse itself. And, and that's what Thomas wants to do is just, you know, get that standard back down to something, something reasonable. Okay, let's, let's go. I think we got time for one more. You guys want to try one more question before we go? I don't know anything about this one. I thought this was really interesting. Mark Friesen had a question about Ohio's statehood. He said, has Congress taken care of the fact that Ohio's votes were actually null and void until 1953? I have no idea, guys. Have y'all heard about this before? 

David Barton [00:24:06] Yeah. This got me looking and I went back. So, Ohio becomes a state in 1803. And so for it to become a state Congress passed an act that allowed it to become a federal become part of the federal union. And Jefferson signed that law on February the 19th, 1803, and it says, Ohio is one of the United States. So, Ohio's legislature then met state legislature. It met just a couple of weeks later on March the 1st. And since that point in time, they've been passing laws, but what happen was for Ohio, Congress never passed a separate formal resolution that explicitly said, hey, we accept Ohio's 1802 Constitution. The Constitution they formed to become a state, Congress never ratified that Constitution, and it did with the other states. When they came in, there was a document passed, we formally accept this, we ratify it, we've looked over the Constitution, it's fine. And so, this was going, you know, all the time Ohio was there, they were passing laws, they were in court cases, and they were always a state of Ohio, on everybody considered them that. And then in 1953, what happened was it became obvious through some historical research that Ohio had never been formally accepted into the union. And so, people started arguing, well, then, you know, none of the laws were any good that they passed. And that's not what happened. They were not formally accepted, but everything that they did was accepted. So, what happened was in 1953 representative George Bender of Ohio introduce the resolution Congress to clean up the record. It passed the House and then the Senate, and it was like unanimous; it was a voice vote. And it says, we ratify Ohio's constitution retroactively and everything that Ohio has done since March the 1st, 1803, we recognize it as being okay federally on the federal level. So, in 1953, they cleaned that up, but it had been a long time that that technicality had been there, but the courts and everybody else always recognized it. So, there've been some people who said Ohio never was a state and all the things they did for 120 years doesn't count. That's not the way it was. The Congress said, no, our oversight, we recognize everything they did retroactively as being okay. Their constitution was okay in 1802. They're a state and it's legal. 

Rick Green [00:26:23] Wow, I had, I don't know how I missed that. And I had no idea all of that had happened. That's brand-new information to me for sure. Not that that doesn't happen often around here, but great question. Appreciate you sending that in. And a lot of them we didn't get to do today, but we will next week. Tomorrow is Good News Friday. You don't want to miss that. And we look forward to seeing you then. Thanks so much for listening to The WallBuilders Show.