Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture is the WallBuilder Show taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. We appreciate you joining us today. Tim Goeglein will be with us a little later in the program from Focus on the Family, frequent guest here on the WallBuilders Show. I'm Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. Be sure and hit our websites wallbuilders.com and wallbuilders.show. I don't know what that means guys when I say hit the website like does that mean somebody goes there? Does that mean they you know punch the computer? Why do I say? I don't know why I say some things I say. Weird. 

Tim Barton [00:00:39] All it shows is that we're now the old guys. So, whatever the hip lingo the kids are using these days, we have no idea what that is. Which in fairness, you know we also could say, hey, for those that are actually probably, maybe the majority of our listeners now are not on the airwaves. We are on lots of radio stations throughout the nation, but also, we get so many comments from people that listen to podcasts and the downloads. So, if you are listening via airwaves there are options where you can take us with us download that podcast so you can have us wherever you go. There's a lot of people, a lot our friends that when they comment to us, they listen on their morning walks or whatever the scenario is from their phone. So I don't know that the majority are listening via the podcast download, but certainly a lot are. And that is definitely a viable option for all out there. 

Rick Green [00:01:35] Well, I don't know about you guys, but y'all travel more than I do. And you're always in an airport. So you're walking, you know, or getting on the plane. The great thing is you can actually, there's so many good podcast apps. 

Tim Barton [00:01:45] Oh, for sure. 

Rick Green [00:01:46] You can download the show; you can listen while you're getting on a plane. If you download it, you actually listen while you're on the plane, even in the air. So yeah, lots of, lots of easy ways to do things these days. And I guess, you, we added all kinds of like Spotify, Castbox, and all these different you know, podcast apps, but don't talk about it much, but man, they're all out there easy for people to get. 

Tim Barton [00:02:04] Yeah, and we are on, again, a lot of radio networks, but a lot those programs that we are on, there's different times they air us. And a lot them are later in the day. And actually, this is available early in the morning. And so now that we're discouraging people from listening via the airwaves, if you are driving and you're listening to drive time, we're so glad you're listen right now. We just happened to record this way earlier in the day, not to digress, yes. However, people are using the lingo of going to our website. We encourage you go to the website. There's so much there and certainly the podcast and everything else a ton of stuff going on and guys It's been it was a very very busy last week. It was a busy weekend and got to hang out with our friend at least over the internet waves that we did interview Josh McPherson yesterday. And then we have a really great friend joining us today as well. So super excited for hanging out with Tim Goeglein for a little bit today 

Rick Green [00:03:00] David, I'll tell you why I thought about why I said hit our websites because I was just, I was just talking to a guy today about the importance of the Bible and all the things we have in our language that we don't even know where it comes from. And I remember you giving a print..... It might've been at the Bible.  Oh, I'm blanking on it now, but the, though the Bible Bee when you spoke at that years ago and I came over here with San Antonio, but I just remember you having this slide that you showed was something like, how was it 250 idioms? That were from the Bible that we have in our language, but we don't even realize that's where it came from. I'm not saying hit the website came from the Bible. I'm just saying it made me think of where do we get things? And you were pointing out, man there's all these things in our languages that we get from the Bible, but people don't know because we don't teach it like we used to. 

David Barton [00:03:48] Yeah, we literally, in that particular presentation, I showed 237 day-to-day idioms that we all use in America, including atheists, not having a clue they're doing exact quotes out of the Bible. Dawkins, who is the famous atheist leader over in England, actually has a book where he says everybody should read and study the Bible, including atheist, because you'll never understand English language if you don't. He points out the fact that Shakespeare quotes the Bible more than 1,100 times in his literature. And so, if you read Shakespeare and don't know the Bible, you're missing what he's trying to say. And so even a leading global atheist like Dawkins said, everybody ought to know the Bible. And in that presentation, you're talking about, Rick, it was 237 idioms that I just probably showed two dozen of them that everybody hears on a daily basis that we just never think of anymore. 

Rick Green [00:04:42] And hit the website wasn't in there was that that wasn't that wasn't one of them. 

David Barton [00:04:47] I think Paul talked about that. I don't think Jesus mentioned that. I think that was it. No, wait a minute. 

Rick Green [00:04:52] Well, before we go to break and bring Tim Goeglein in, you guys have had Tim come into the Pastor's Briefing and speaking for man, as long as I can remember, I've been with y'all 25 years and it seems like the whole time I've been with you, so I don't know if y'all been working with him almost that long?

Tim Barton [00:05:08] Twenty-five years. I think actually this year he did tell us he's been with us for 25 years. So, I think literally, Dad, as soon as you started this and I was in college at that time so I wasn't here at the inception I don't think. I definitely came to some of the early Pastor's Briefings but yeah even before my time of these Pastor's Briefing Tim Gagline has been with us that long. 

David Barton [00:05:29] And it goes back to really George W. Bush White House. He was elected in 2000, took office in 2001. Tim Goeglein went in with him in 2001, and I had known Governor Bush then, had been a friend. And so I was at the White House in 2001 and that's where I connected with Tim Goeglein. It was right after Bush took office and then where there are numbers and numbers of times throughout the presidency. Tim was always a great staffer for Bush and just had a remarkable portfolio. He dealt with all the outside groups and there are thousands of those that want to see every president and Tim was the relations guy for all those outside groups. So I've known him all the way back since George W Bush was elected 

Rick Green [00:06:14] Well that makes it even more amazing that Tim has managed to stay so optimistic and joyful if he had to work with those thousands of groups because we know that can be a little bit trying. Anyway, Tim Goeglein our special guest, author of several books. And we're gonna talk about one of his new books today. Stay with us, you're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:07:36] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Tim Goeglein back with us, he's served as over Focus on the Family for years, served under President Bush as a special assistant, written numerous books on faith and politics and restoring America. And a new one out What Really Matters: Restoring a Legacy of Faith, Freedom and Family. Tim, great to have you back, brother. 

 Tim Goeglein [00:07:56] Rick, it is always great to be with you, and thank you so much for having me back. 

Rick Green [00:08:01] Well, I heard rumors that you were recently hanging out in Washington, D.C. With some scoundrels named David and Tim Barton. Is this true? Should we really be having you?

 Tim Goeglein [00:08:10] It’s true. My friend, I have been, as you undoubtedly know, a regular speaker with WallBuilders in Washington. This is my 25th year, and I absolutely love it. I really do. I speak twice a year to the WallBuilders' guests, and every time I come back levitating. I mean, it's a remarkable group of people. 

Rick Green [00:08:30] Well, it's been, it has been probably four or five years since I've been at one of the conferences in DC, just other stuff, but, but I always remember you coming and sharing and the pastors and whoever, whichever group we end up there, always love hearing from you. And it's encouraging. I love the fact that you've been literally in the trenches for this many years, literally decades at this point, and you keep this joy, man. You just always got this optimistic joy and it's infectious. So, thank you for that. 

 Tim Goeglein [00:08:55] That is really great of you. And I'll tell you, this is a promise, Rick. It was the main motivator for my writing, What Really Matters, because I'm an inveterate optimist. And I believe that the restoration rate of legacy, faith, freedom, family, that it's possible. I really do believe that. 

Rick Green [00:09:13] Well, I am praying that every person that reads this book, and we're encouraging everybody to read it, that they come away with that same joy and that optimism and just knowing, man, as much as, we've said it for a long time, it's really important what happens at the White House and the State House, but not near as important as what happens in your house and in my house. And that's really the message you're getting across is that every American out there can be a part of restoring the country if they'll look first to their own home and their own families. 

 Tim Goeglein [00:09:38] Absolutely right. I was speaking at a major state university a couple of weeks ago and a young woman after I spoke, she's a junior there, came to me and she said, why is it that the political class seems to talk about everything except for what really matters? And I said, you know what? That's the title of the book. Because it's true the political class speaks about the border, deportation, the war, taxes, by the way, all very important. But What Really Matters, the title of the book, is about the things that are the first principles, faith, family, freedom, but institutionally, this book, Rick, is a robust defense of marriage, family, parenting, human life, religious liberty, conscience rights, parental rights, and if I may say, pronouns with fixed meanings. You know, a man is a man, a woman is a woman. And the frontal assault on masculinity, on femininity, on what constitutes a family, these are very real things in the culture and the time in which we find ourselves. 

Rick Green [00:10:47] There's so many policies that both state, federal, well, state, federal, local, I mean, every level of government, frankly, even the, the, you know, sphere of, of, of the church and education, all these things, that these topics you just mentioned hit. And, and even as we do our part at home with our individual families, if the attack from government to destroy that continues, it makes it very, very difficult to, to, to win there. What would be some good examples of some policy things that would reflect what you just described? That we can be encouraging in our local and state governments and federal. 

 Tim Goeglein [00:11:23] I'm very honored you would ask, Rick, I want to begin with the sobering news, in my hopeful answer. The sobering news is that in all of American recorded history, we have the lowest marriage rates and we have lowest fertility rates. That's very sobering. For the first time in 2025, the majority of American babies were born to women in their thirties, not women in their twenties. So when it comes to marriage, family, fertility, you know that the that's a sobering reality in which we find ourselves. However here is a very substantial silver lining, American men ages eighteen to twenty-five of a sudden, tell reliable demographers they want to be married, they want have children, they want to have a foundation of faith and religion in their lives. They say that they understand that the good life absolutely includes marriage, family, and parenting. Now women in the same demographic; eighteen to twenty-five, eighteen to thirty, the numbers are not as high but aspirationally, those women say they want the same thing. What causes the chasm? The chasm frankly, Rick, is what I would say are you know unmarriageable men. Women are looking for someone who will be a great provider. By the way, whether they are progressive women of the left or conservative women of the right, they tell surveyors, they want a reliable economic partner. They want someone who will give them continuity, stability, and order. And if that couple wants to have children, they are looking for someone who will be a great father and a great provider. So women and men often, and I think this is a good thing, they say they want the same things, but women are particularly looking for marriageable men. And we have large numbers of young men who are not working, they're not looking for a job, they're in school, they're applying to school. What are they doing? These are big numbers. And so, I think we have silver linings, no doubt about that, but definitively, and that's why I write about this in What Really Matters, we have a lot to do. And this book is a bit of a toolkit on how we think our way forward, you know, to restoration in the United States. 

Rick Green [00:13:51] Wow. That's, you know, I have to specifically ask you, because I work with, with young people so much, what, what would you say to them, you know, especially 18, 19, 20-year-old young men, what are the most important things you would recommend to them to be doing now to prepare for that, to be marriageable? 

 Tim Goeglein [00:14:11] Yeah. May I say-. 

Rick Green [00:14:12] I like that word. I hadn't heard that word, marriageable. Is that, did I even say that right, Tim? Have I even got it? Have I, even using enough syllables there? 

 Tim Goeglein [00:14:19] You, the answer is you get an a plus, may I say, Rick, it's why I devote an entire chapter in this book, called Restoring the American Male. Why is that? All right. Are you ready for this? Men in America account for three out of every four suicides or drug overdoses. And I think, I think in a book, of, you know, of policy, this one is what I think what everybody should pay attention to a ready for this? Fifteen percent of all American men say they have no friends. I mean, that is really stunning. That's right. It's more than one of every 10. So, I think the loneliness crisis, the lack of fellowship and a community, I think in part after COVID, after kind of digital dislocation, I think after all of that, it's part of the fact that men, especially young American men, the rising generation, they have lived through this brokenness. They've lived through this unevenness and lack of continuity. And so, when they come back to church, when they came back to that faith community, they are looking for Jesus Christ. They're looking for God, no doubt about that. But coming with that, they're looking for the stability of friendship. They're look for fellowship. You know, by the way, I know that the plural of anecdote is not data. But I was speaking very recently, just in the last couple of months, at a very large gathering of young people of evangelical Christians. And afterward, I asked them, you know, what is it about you from a practical standpoint that attracts you most to going back to church or going to church for the first time? And Rick, overwhelmingly, it was what you and I are talking about. They are looking for companionship. They're looking for friendship. They're looking for connection. They're not getting that virtually, or if they are, it's extremely, you know, discontinuous and unreliable. We were made for human relationships. So, I think, I think there there's very good news when it comes to restoring the American male, the church, the church has a major role to play. 

Rick Green [00:16:44] Yes. Oh man, Tim, you're spot on that, that we're built for it. We desire that fellowship and as guys, we desire that brotherhood, that, that friendship and so few guys, even like that stat of 15%. I would, I would wonder what the bigger stat is of those who don't have. What was the right way to say this? Relationships where they can be real, where they're going to be vulnerable, where they can sharpen each other, you know, true iron sharpening iron. That's one of the things, you know, we do this Institute thing here at the Patriot Academy campus with young leaders that live here for a year. And one of best things I hear from them at the end of the year is just the relationships they built, the iron sharpening, they learn as much from each other as they do from us. They're actually doing the lecturing. And most people don't have that. And so, seeking that and getting the church to wake up to create opportunities for that. Right? And that's part of the solution right like I said for the church to play that role 

 Tim Goeglein [00:17:39] Yes, in fact, I wanna share some more good news, Rick. I mean, this is particularly good news. And I think this really speaks to the Judaic Christian foundation of our nation and the way that practical culture matters to people who are seeking. In my book, What Really Matters, what I do is I look at the reports, the present reports, very current reports on what I call Gen Z, Gen X, you know, how they... How they measure don't mesh with drinking alcohol or smoking pot or cigarettes etc. I'll tell you it's it's quite remarkable that only about 30% of Gen Z members report drinking alcohol or smoking pot or cigarettes while teenagers. You know, that is a very substantial shift and that's compared by the way to forty- three percent of millennials and like fifty two percent of Gen X and it's even higher for those of us who are in the baby boom. So I think we're seeing a downward trend on the kind of behaviors that are, yes, they're bad, they're bad, uh, you know, physically, but I think also to your second point, my friend, it, it gets in the way, these things often get in the way of the authenticity of long-term friendship and relationship. It's one thing where they get, they go out and they're spending, you know, a night over drinks or smoking, whatever. But, but those kinds of things, I think the rising generation believes that they, that they're bad for health, but they're also bad for social health. And I think that that's a very, granitic and a very concrete way of saying better days are ahead in many ways in this generation where it's often very concerning. 

Rick Green [00:19:25] Yeah, because they want a real relationship, not superficial, you know, just hanging out at the bar kind of a thing. They would, they want to have a real, you know, yeah, real relationships, real concrete issues. As you said, man, we are just scratching the surface and out of time. What Really Matters: Restoring a Legacy of Faith, Freedom and Family. So, folks, you got to get the book to dive a lot deeper into this. Tim, you're a treasure, man. I appreciate so much the wisdom that you share and just the authenticity of it. This is needed right now. The book's out now I think it just came out what two weeks ago? So, we've got... Where would you like to send people? Amazon? Bookstores? What's your, what's your preference? 

 Tim Goeglein [00:19:59] Wherever people like to buy books and I'm happy to say it's available. 

Rick Green [00:20:04] All right.

 Tim Goeglein [00:20:06] Amazon, you name it, wherever people go, what really matters is the title and I hope they will get it, enjoy it, read it, and share it. 

Rick Green [00:20:14] Love it, love it. God bless you, brother. Thanks so much for coming on today. 

[00:20:17] Be of good cheer. Thank you, Rick. 

[00:20:20] Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:21:30] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Back with David and Tim now and, and well, guys, he was his, his normal, joyful, optimistic self. And I, I didn't say this to him, but I was thinking and maybe you, Tim, the other Tim will get this. I don't expect you to get this one, David, but maybe Tim will, but Skillet has a song: What Matters Most. And it's my faith, my family, my freedom. So, as Tim Goeglein was talking, I kept hearing Skillet song playing in my head. I just had this feeling he wouldn't know that song, but I could be totally wrong. Anyway, it is very much about what matters most, guys. I'm going off a lot of tangents today, aren't I? 

Tim Barton [00:22:06] Well, it's funny because I was trying to imagine you in a Skillet perspective and I was imagining your bleach blonde hair kind of, you know, whatever kind of hair product use over the side, maybe a little black goth makeup for a little bit. I mean, Skillet, you know, they were kind of a thing back in the day. 

Rick Green [00:22:22] Leather jacket. 

Tim Barton [00:22:23] Yeah. So guaranteed my dad does not know that one. He's probably thinking of like the skillet that's part of the wagon going west that you're cooking food off of. You know, for the Oregon trail or something. But yes, not to digress at all. Cause we have derailed from talking about, Tim Goeglein and What Matters Most: Faith, Family, Freedom. It was really great having him there at The Pastor's Briefing, encouraging the pastors, remembering foundationally what we are fighting for and what, and this is not like politically we're fighting for, as Christians, what we should be promoting, overall, and in God, family, country, faith, family, freedom. Those are the things, as believers, we should be advocating for. And hearing him break it down for the pastors was really encouraging. And of course, now that he's got this book and as you mentioned been out for a couple weeks now, something that is is a really helpful too, because he does give a lot of details for some of those areas. And I know Rick and probably Dad you'll go there to jumping in on some of this thing, even for young men and what that looks like or for young women and where we can help maybe navigate and encourage all the listeners for the parents, the grandparents, or even the young people listening. There’s some major gaps in, in culture of biblical understanding, biblical literacy, et cetera, where we want to help people understand what God's call is, and especially this rising generation, we want to help them get it right. And really grateful that Tim Goeglein has a book laying out some of these details from the biblical perspective, of course, backing it up, document it, having the data points to show. This is where culture is and then giving the suggested path forward is always so helpful. So really encourage this book. 

David Barton [00:24:07] You know, one of the things that really stood out to me the most there was when Tim was talking about the high lethality rate that exists in young men with loneliness. And while that lethality rate, suicide rate may be about 15% because of male loneliness, it also exists in other generations as well. We've seen this in polling and studies. It's just that with the younger generation, they seem to have less experience on how to get out of that kind of loneliness. And it's like the only way out is ending my life. And so that lethality is really, really high. But I was just reminded, as Tim was going through that, and I love the term he used, digital displacement, because that digital displacement. Digital has replaced human relationships in many areas, and we don't build human relationships now. And I don't care what the age is. A lot of people spend hours a day with digital type of things, which is not human relationship. And I was reminded of four scriptures. I'm just gonna hit them real quick. But Genesis 2:18, where God says, it's not good for man to be alone. And that's not necessarily with wife or anything else. He said, look, this is not good that Adam's by himself. He needs some companionship. Then Eve was created, but that need for companionship is still there. Proverbs 18:1 says, he who isolates himself is not wise. And that the tendency, human tendency, to get in our own little bubble and not talk to others. Proverbs 27:17 says, as iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another. We need contact with others. We need to be able to rub against others and those with whom we can interact. And then the last verse is Proverbs 18:24, a man that has friends must show himself friendly, but they're friends who stick closer than brothers. And we need to build those relationships. So I don't care what the age is. I know the lethality is high among young men, but this is a growing problem with all humans. Is that we're losing human contact with other humans because we have so much digital contact now. And I thought that was a really brilliant point that he brought out in the book. 

Rick Green [00:26:07] David, after all of those biblical examples there, I'm going to see if I can tie the whole program together with an idiom. No, maybe it's not an idiom. No man is an Island. See what I did there guys. Come on, come on. That was pretty good compared to..... Yeah. Well, anyway, I tried come back tomorrow folks and I'll try harder. David and Tim Barton. Thank you, guys, for all that you do to keep us optimistic. Like Tim Goegleine was we, we don't have enough people like that and in our movement. So, folks out there, you need to share it with your friends and family. Go to our website, wallbuilders.show, share it with your friend and family, and be sure and check out the podcast apps as well. You've been listening to the WallBuilders Show.