Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. Thanks for joining us today on the WallBuilders Show. You can find out more at wallbuilders.show. If you wanna catch some of the radio programs you might've missed or wallbuilders.com for everything else you need to help rebuild liberty in the 250th, it's all there at wallbuilders.com. Rick Green here with David Barton. Tim is somewhere in Washington, DC, leading people all over the place, taking them on tours of the monuments, the Capitol, got briefings going on and David's gonna join him, but I had to steal David away long enough to get an update on the State Board of Education. But David, before we go to State Board, catch us up on what is a pastor's briefing? Like, when they come to DC what do they get?

David Barton [00:00:44] Well, actually, I'm going to back you up before that because we're actually up here prior to that because this is the week of America Reads the Bible. 

Rick Green [00:00:51] That's right. 

David Barton [00:00:52] So this is the weak one for 12 hours a day for a week plus more, we’re having literally people read the Bible. Including President Trump will be part of the Bible reading as well. So, we started this with Sunday night. I spoke up here Sunday night and their opening ceremonies and Tim is, Tim and myself and Cheryl, my wife, Tim's mom, she's reading part of the Bible. So, they've got about five hundred people....

Rick Green [00:01:19] Oh no wait, wait, wait David, David, we gotta, you got, I always get my guesses wrong with you and Tim. Like I almost I'm like maybe one for a thousand over the years. But I'm gonna guess that if David Barton is gonna read out of the Bible for America Reads the Bible. Hmm I wonder if it would have anything to do with building a wall? 

David Barton [00:01:40] You think so? 

Rick Green [00:01:41] Maybe wall builders? 

David Barton [00:01:42] You think? 

Rick Green [00:01:43] Maybe the book of, is that Peter? No, no, is it Revelation? No, let me think, let my think. Oh, Nehemiah! I bet David Barton and Tim and Cheryl Barton would probably be reading out of the book of Nehemiah. I cheated though, because Bunni told me last week, so I cheated, I know. 

David Barton [00:02:00] They were very gracious to us.... 

Rick Green [00:02:01] One time to be right. 

David Barton [00:02:02] And by the way, Franklin Graham with Samaritan's Purse, he reads the story of the Good Samaritans with Samaran's Purses. So, they were really nice in assigning, because they assigned us the passages to read. Now, Tim and I may talk about it a little bit because both he and I have a chapter full of genealogies. So, we're gonna have to read some Hebrew names for, I don't know, 40, 50, 60 verses. And I don't know, somehow. 

Rick Green [00:02:26] Are you gonna practice? Or are you just gonna wing it? 

David Barton [00:02:29] I'm gonna kind of wing it, because I'm going to figure most people have never heard the actual Hebrew, and I know when I'm in Israel, they don't pronounce it the same way we do in Texas. So, I'm going to have the Texas pronunciation of Hebrew names. So, and of course we all know that Texas is the most important, that's what really matters. And yes. 

Rick Green [00:02:45] We gotta teach everybody else how to talk right. Yeah, that right. 

[00:02:49] Yeah, we'll get it down. We'll turn those four syllable words into about 18 syllables and drawl them out there really good 

Rick Green [00:02:56] Well, I'm excited. I think it is actually the perfect reading. You guys are up, let's see, I guess, tomorrow, Wednesday. And people can follow along. It's a cool thing. When we had Bunni on last week, we put the website out, americareadsthebible.com, americareadsthebible.com. And you can follow all week, including when President Trump reads. I believe it's this evening that he'll be reading. Of course, he's getting 2 Chronicles 7:14, "if my people who have called by my name". I mean, that's gonna be great. I just love it, man. This is a really special thing. 

David Barton [00:03:23] Yeah it is really special and also too when the May event happens. Well, the May event is happening May the 17th. We'll be up here on the National Mall. It's the National Day of Prayer and Dedication. The fact that President Trump has called for America to rededicate itself to God on the 250th, I mean that that's what the Founding Fathers did at the beginning. They dedicated this thing to God it was done through sermons and pastors and prayer and Fasting Proclamations and Prayer and Thanksgiving Proclamations. And it's really interesting that rather than just having a 250th celebration, it's a 250th rededication to God celebration. And that is just, that's awesome. I did not, I would not have thought five years ago, ten years ago twenty years ago that we would have something like that, that harkens back to the original founding. But it's been really awesome to see what's going up here for sure. 

Rick Green [00:04:14] Super exciting. Super exciting! You know, part of that rededication would be even our education system, which is of course our topic today, and getting the Bible, even not only are you guys going to be reading it through the whole Bible for the nation, but getting the bible back in the classroom, and this new curriculum and reading list is incredible for the state of Texas, which impacts the rest of the nation.

David Barton [00:04:35]  Yeah, and that's something because we're gonna we're going to interview Julie Pickering, who's a State Board of Education member in Texas. And I want to hit something up front this is really, really big. What happens in Texas is going across the nation, whether people like it or not, whether they like Texas or not, whether they think education is important or not. It's really a big deal. Texas and California drive the education system and all the other states because we're the ones that really determine the textbook content. Publishers publish to Texas and, California between those two states we have 24% of the nation's public school kids, that's about the only way they can make sure that they don't lose money when they publish textbooks. So, you're either going to get what Texas does or you're gonna get what California does in your public school. And I think most people would listen to this would definitely want Texas and I hope everybody would because it's more accurate, it's more historical based, not feelings based. And I say that because Julie is one of 15 people who have the final say on what goes in these in the textbooks. I'm one of the content advisors and so I help determine the kind of things but she's the one that votes on what actually makes it in. And this is really big because this is where down ballot races and we don't talk much about down ballot races we all think about our congressmen and senators and presidents and whatnot. But this down ballot race probably most people have, in Texas, have no idea who their State Board of Education member is. And they would know their congressman probably but a congressman has about one-third of what the State Board of Education members have. And so, to put this in perspective, the average congressman will represent about three-quarters of a million people and the average State Board of Education member will represent two million people. Now the State board of education race will cost about a hundred thousand dollars for two million people, your average congressman's race is going to cost 2.9 million dollars. So, they will spend 200% more actually a State Board of Education race it will be three percent of what a congressional race is and they represent 200% more people. This is why you need to know who your down ballot people are. You need to know your school board members are not just your state school board your local school board. We don't think about these people, they're the ones that have the most day-to-day impact. And so, when you hear Julie talk today and talk about what's happening in this fight and it is a fight in Texas. They say, well, you know, I'm in Michigan, I'm in Maine, I'm in wherever. Oh yeah, this affects you because this affects the textbooks that you're going to be seeing for the next 15 or so years in your state. And the philosophy that comes out of these textbooks will determine whether your state is going to get more free or whether it's going to get more Socialistic Marxist. And that's kind of the two directions going in the nation now. So that's just a little bit on the set up. So, let's get to Julie and let her talk about what's going on. But anybody that's outside of Texas and thinks this is only a Texas-only program, no, no. This is for everybody in the nation because what happens here in this battle she's talking about is going to affect all of our kids, all 55 million school kids. And I think another really big issue here is that when you look at the Texas State Board of Education, it's 15 members on the board. And right now, we've got ten Republicans and we've got five Democrats. And so that should be fairly safe. It's not. Right now, we're losing the votes on a fairly sizable margin somewhere and we're losing generally three republicans on most of the votes so it's not who's republican, who's democrat, it's who's conservative and who's progressive. And you have progressive republicans too. And so this really is a battle. And as Julie talks, I mean, we've had to really, Rick, you spoke at the last State Board of Education meeting, you got dozens of people in there to speak as well, because we have to put pressure on our own Republicans to get them to act and think like conservatives, and it's a really big deal. So, getting them to do that is huge, and don't think that because Texas is a Republican state that this is an easy battle, it's not, because even in Texas, people here don't pay attention to their down ballot races. And so they like somebody with an R after their name and they really should have a D after their names in many cases. 

Rick Green [00:08:34] Yeah. And, and, and even the testimony, you know, is so skewed, the left is really good at couching their arguments and making it sound like it's, you know, um, it's just being nice. And it's just being thoughtful of other people and all that kind of stuff. And you had Christians even getting up and saying, well, you know, as a Christian, I don't want the Bible taught in schools. Cause I don't want the teacher to have, you know, any influence on how my kid hears the Bible, things like that. And that's part of the reason it's so important to have members on the board that can ask questions of those people. And that was really actually kind of fun to watch. You know, we have Brandon on last week that was on the board. And then Julie, this weekend, both of them were just fantastic at, you know, diving into when, when people had that testimony, they would drill down a little bit more and really challenge them and make them defend what they were saying. A lot of times it would just fall apart. So, it was really interesting to watch. Well, Julie Pickering is with us. When we come back from the break, you're listening to the WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:10:30] Welcome back to The WalBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Our good friend, Julie Pickren is with us from the State Board of Education in Texas, a true freedom fighter. We love you. Julie, thanks for coming on. 

Dr. Julie Pickren [00:10:41] Yes, Rick. Thank you so much. Love to be with great patriots like yourself and WallBuilders. 

Rick Green [00:10:47] Well, you have been in the trenches fighting for truth and just getting good history back into the classroom and good resources and oh my goodness, what a battle! And we're just so thankful for you and what you've done to be steadfast throughout this and it looks like some victories, looks like some things that are going to take some more time, the battle's certainly not over. But we had to get you on to just give kind of a update on, on what happened at the State Board hearings in the last couple of weeks and what you see coming and how people can help. So, a lot to cover in a short period of time, but I guess just start with a recap of what happened over the last couple of weeks. 

Dr. Julie Pickren [00:11:25] So yeah, so Rick, in our last Texas State Board of Education meeting just a couple of weeks ago, we saw a tremendous outpouring of support from wonderful patriots like yourself and the Bartons and many great grassroots organizations, not just around Texas, but around the country and just hundreds of people showing up to the Texas State Board of Education, really great people who love America and who love Texas and care about true education being taught, true history being taught to students in Texas. And great people testified and we had a freedom rally at the Texas State Board of Education, which by the way, we got over 300 people at the freedom rally and the lobby of the Barbara Jordan building on the Capitol grounds and the mainstream media was there and they refused to cover it. Not one mainstream media news outlet would cover that rally with all of those great Patriots and great speakers there. You know, it's always the fake news is going to try to hide the narrative or change the narrative. You know the Washington Post put out an article falsely titled that we refuse to listen to parents' voices and people's voices on wanting the Islamification of Texas public education, social studies and history. But that's simply not the truth. I know myself and many of our other members, we sat through almost 20 hours of public testimony, listening to everybody that came. Except for in my case, I got up and walked out when the terrorist decided to, to testify on what they wanted on what their demands were for public education. And when I use that word. 

Rick Green [00:13:01] Thank you for doing that. That's exactly what I was going to say. That's a meaningful word. That is a designation given by not only our governor, but Governor DeSantis in Florida, by the president. Yeah, we're talking about a literally a designated terror organization that wants to have input on our textbooks. 

Dr. Julie Pickren [00:13:18] Yes, I don't throw that term around lightly. That term has a significant meaning. So yes, it is a foreign terrorist organization as designated by Governor Abbott, who is under investigation of our Texas Rangers and Texas DPS and the Texas Attorney General's office and the Joint Terrorism Task Force. I mean, these people are under active terrorist investigations by our state and our country. And so, whenever they sign up to testify on behalf of their terrorist organization, that is literally CAIR, the Council of American Islamic Relations, testifying on what they want in education. And my constituents, the over two million constituents that I represent in Southeast Texas, they do not want me listening to, or they do want to entertain what a terrorist organization wants their children being taught. 

Rick Green [00:14:12] It's really shocking that, that we didn't have more pushback, you know, that, that there, that any board member would want to hear from an organization like that, but that tells you what we're up against and, and why having you and Brandon and the others stand against this is so, is so important. Julie, it's a, it' a long drawn out process. You guys spend literally years working on these, these standards, going through all kinds of committees and feedback and, you know, it it's not easy. This is a difficult, difficult process. What would you say is kind of a, could you give me a 30,000 feet view of the timeline of like these standards won't actually be in the classroom for a couple more years, I think, if I understand right. And so you've got an ongoing fight to keep what y'all got in in the last meeting and to prevent bad stuff from getting in and just to see this thing through. Can you give us kind of a blow by blow of what this looks like? 

Dr. Julie Pickren [00:15:03] I can, I can kind of give you a little background information where we're headed. But one thing that I want to address first is that the reason why you have so many people sitting in that room, so many of our state board of education elected members sitting in that room and dialoguing with CAIR during their public testimony and even expressing support for CAIR in public testimony is because they have actively sought out and received CAIR's endorsement for their campaigns. And it's both sides of the aisle. It's not just Democrats it's Democrats and Republicans that have asked CAIR for their endorsement and that CAIR is actively campaigning on their behalf. So that's why you see only a couple of us walking out of that room because many of those State Board of Education members sitting around that U-shaped circle or sitting in that room, they are actively and their campaigns are actively endorsed and supported by CAIR, Democrats and Republicans. Okay, so now let's go back. 

Rick Green [00:15:58] That tells you how tone deaf they can be and how few people are, you know, what we call men and women of Issachar that understand the times and know what to do. I mean, this is a significant issue on every front, let alone education. But anyway, I digress. Go ahead. 

Dr. Julie Pickren [00:16:13] Yes, because CAIR has sent all the members of the Texas State Board of Education to every single one of our campaigns, a request to support us, a questionnaire to fill out, you fill out the questionnaire, you send it back to them, then they have to interview you, and then after they interview you they decide on whether or not they are going to endorse your campaign or not. Okay, so even Democrats or Republican elected officials who said, oh, I didn't realize CAIR has endorsed me. That is a lie because you have to submit the questionnaire and they have to interview you to receive their endorsement. So, they fully know that they are being endorsed and supported by CAIR, which by the way, I can tell you, my campaign has never responded to anything from a terrorist organization. We have not responded to an email. We have no responded to a request for an interview. We have. Not responded to any SBOE Seven does not entertain, listen to, or negotiate with terrorists period. 

Rick Green [00:17:08] Nice. I love it. I Love it. Okay, so let's now let's go back to the process and what you need help with what the board will be doing over the next few weeks and months, frankly, even years and help our listeners know where they can plug in and help. 

Dr. Julie Pickren [00:17:23] OK, so I'm going to take you back to '21, '22; 2021, and 2022. So, you can understand how we got to here today. So, in '21, '22 is when the previous before me and a few other members were elected, the Texas State Board of Education, they were they took up this full rewrite of the Social Study standards, what we call TEKS Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills. It's our standards, OK, for the state of Texas. And so, they took this up this kindergarten through 12th grade rewrite. And let's just say the wheels came off the bus. The groups that were, the work groups that were put together by that existing State Board of Education in '21 and '22, they, those groups were populated with the teacher unions, the taxpayer funded lobbyists, all of the organizations that oppose, that oppose parental rights and oppose our traditional values and oppose our Texas values. And that support Critical Race Theory, support Marxism, support that children belong to the government. That is who was populating those work groups, which we have come affectionately to term them as the woke groups, okay? So the work groups were populated by those taxpayer funded lobbyists and those teacher unions. So they delivered standards in 2021, 2022 to the Texas State Board of Education that were fully woke. I mean, in those standards, it was going to teach that the Texas Rangers, our most elite police force in Texas, was a racist and oppressive organization. It was going teach that Alamo was founded in racism, in slavery and racism. I mean I could just give you a whole list of those standards that were filled with Critical Race Theory. They were filled with woke indoctrination. They were field with a Marxist worldview of Texas and America. And that, to get those standards defeated, I mean, that was an all hands on deck. Even Governor Abbott was so wonderful to help us defeat those woke standards because the Texas State Board of Education at the time in 2022, that was Chairman Ellis and he was fast tracking the approval of those standards. He was calling for special meetings to fast track that approval. But thank God we, the people stood up and you know, Rick, I always say the powers with we, The People. The we the people stood up and we defeated those, those standards. I believe Patriot Mobile to that meeting delivered 8,000 signatures. And there was a very big push for us to start with those very woke Marxist indoctrination standards from '21, '22, but this state word of education, this new state word education that we swore into office and 20, u and we're like in 2024 and then sworn in 2020, sorry, 2022 and sworn in 2023. This new State Board of Education, we started at zero. We started with a brand new even framework. We went back to the basics because we said, how did that go off the rails so bad in '21 and '22? We really wanted to address the problem at the root. And the root was that there was not a good framework in place that represented state laws on what is required and not allowed in social studies. So we went back to the very beginning and adopted a brand-new framework. And a framework that that includes what state law says has to be in there that kindergarten through 12th grade social studies must be taught through a patriotic lens. It must be talked through that America is exceptional and Texas is exceptional and that we are in the noblest experiment of humankind. Also, that it has to contain Old Testament and New Testament scripture and because state law, says whatever you're teaching social studies kindergarten through twelfth grade, you must use Old Testament, New Testament for the enrichment of knowledge. You know, our Moses law is a real thing. Our legal system, our laws are clearly come from the Old Testament. And based on the Old Testament, you know, like in Texas, we have the Good Samaritan law. Well, how do you understand the Good Samaritan law if you don't know what a Samaritan is? We have the baby Moses law in Texas. How do you know what the baby Moses law, the intent and what that is if you don't the story of baby Moses? So There's a lot of things like that, that we wanted to get back to original intent with teaching our social studies, also that we have to use primary documents. And so, there's a whole list of primary documents that by the law, we must teach students kindergarten through12th grade Declaration of Independence, Federalist Papers, US Constitution, presidential speeches. There's whole litany of primary documents now that we must teach. So, we adopted a brand new framework last year in 2025. We adopted the new framework to build from. Then we went to the Texas State Board of Education. We paired up by members. Two members would get together and we would nominate a content expert advisor in social studies. So, Pastor Brandon Hall and I, we paired up together and we, it was so funny, we didn't even have to like talk about it, who we wanted, whatever. We both said, I said, Brandon, who do you want? He goes, David Barton. He's like, who'd he want? Do I hear you? Who do you what, Julie? I said I want David Barton, so we were unanimous on that from the get go. We didn't even have to discuss that or compromise or anything on that. We both knew exactly that we wanted one of the leading historians in America to help educate children in Texas. And that was David Barton. And so, everybody put forward their content who they wanted their content advisor to be. And so, we've had, we had a good consortium of advisors that's that rep that represents the Texas State Board of Education because we are a 10\5 Republican board where two thirds majority Republican board. And so, two thirds of the content advisors tend to have more of a conservative or what I call Texas values or Republican worldview. They do not have this Marxist Critical Race Theory worldview. And so, because that's representative of the board. So anyway, so they went to work, started to help develop, taking our framework, they went ahead and started developing key topics and themes throughout, which they brought back to the Texas State Board of Education, which we have had full audit and amending authority over all of these documents I'm telling you about. 

Rick Green [00:23:40] They do all this work, but it still gives you the chance to review and edit and y'all can take what you want and what you don't 

Dr. Julie Pickren [00:23:46] Yes, it is merely a suggestion to this Texas State Board of Education of this is what we think should be key topics and themes and then we hold a meeting about it where we hear public testimony over it. It's published for the public. The public can come and testify on it. They can email us what they want or what they think changes, what should be added, what should be deducted and so then we have a meeting about it. We make our amendments and so then we adopted key themes and subtopics. That was the next part of the process. Then after that, then we formed our new work groups. Well, there was a big push to bring back the existing woke groups, work groups from '21 and '22, which we said, no, we're going to start fresh because of a lot of the members that approved those teacher unions and taxpayer funded lobbyists to populate those work groups in '21, '22, those members aren't on the Texas State Board of Education anymore. There's a lot of new members on this board like myself, and we wanted the authority to approve who we, who we wanted out of the applicants to serve on those work groups. And so we started with brand new fresh work groups, I think we got some really great people appointed to those workgroups and people that were fair minded, that weren't being pushed a narrative by a taxpayer funded lobbyists or weren't been pushed a negative by their teacher unions. And even, you know, in '21, '22, we had problems with leaks that the what happens inside of those work groups is supposed to be confidential and stay inside those work groups. And we saw in '21 and '22, people that were members of the teacher unions were going back to their unions and reporting on what was happening in those work groups. And then those unions were sending out these newsletters. And the public, Joe Q. Public was finding out about decisions made and things happening in the work group before the elected officials even knew, before the Texas State Board of Education elected officials who were elected to decide these things and legislate on these things before they even knew what was happening. So, there was, we really worked very hard, at least I can tell you I did for SBOE 7 to make sure that qualified professionals were put on those work groups. But it wasn't just professionals because they were part of a union or an association. Really that they, I reviewed, I'm telling you, Rick, I had over a hundred and I think had over 140 applicants and I went through myself personally, every single resume, every, single application and reviewed it all because I wanted people that had great credentials that were, that understood the, the power and understood the need for teaching social studies correctly to our children. These are future voters. These are futures, citizens in Texas and America. So, we have to get this right. 

Rick Green [00:26:31] Our folks got to interrupt Julie's interview. We're out of time for today, but we will pick up with that tomorrow. You don't want to miss it. And then you want to share both today and tomorrow's program so that people can get educated about this. Thanks so much for listening to The WallBuilders Show.