Why Texas Education Shapes America

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome to the intersection of Faith and Culture. We're glad you joined us today on the Wall Builder Show. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And we've got some good news to share with you today, even though it's not good news Friday, so we're going a little out of turn, but it's just a great news uh program today dealing with education and dealing with getting some good stuff back into, yes, public school classrooms. So we've got a great interview for you a little later in the program with a member of the State Board of Education in Texas. And I guess, guys, we probably ought to start with just a little bit of education about what the State Board of Education is. Not every state's the same, not, but a lot of them do have a state board of education. And uh just talk a little bit about what they do and and their role. Uh David, you've been, man, I think probably the first state board race. I know this is the first one I was involved with you on was in the 90s, but you might have been doing it before that.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

No, I think probably in the 90s is when I got involved at the state state races. Uh so it's been, yeah, but that's still been a couple of years anyway. So I've been through a couple of those races. The state board really is super important in Texas because Texas is one of the two states that does drive the nation. Uh, between Texas and California, you've got 24% of the nation's public school students. So when those publishers get standards for English or math or science or history or reading or anything, they really cater to those two states because they're the two states that have enough schools that if they buy the product, then those those publishers are gonna make their money back. Uh if you take the standards for Rhode Island or you take the standards for Maine or something else, it's highly unlikely any publisher is gonna publish for those standards. And there are every one of the states, they do have a Board of Education. Some are appointed, uh, some are appointed by the legislature, some are appointed by the governor, some are elected as in Texas. Uh so they vary as as elections vary from state to state, so they do here. But in Texas, we're what do we have now? 38 congressmen? Is that what we have? Yeah, 38. But there's only 15 state Board of Education members. So that's like two and a half members of Congress per one state Board of Education member. And since a congressional district is about three-quarters million, you're probably looking at about 1.6, 1.7 million uh people that elect each state board of education member. So they have a big district, but it's what we would call a down ballot race because it's not one that you get much money put into, where a congressional race might be two to five million dollars, a state board of education race might be a hundred thousand, fifty thousand, seventy thousand. So it's a real different type of race and is down ballot, so it doesn't get much attention, but I would say it's a very, very, very important race because just in Texas alone, we got 5.5 million students in the schools. And then when you start taking the Texas influence in the national textbooks, now we're talking tens of millions that will be affected by what Texas does. So here in Texas, uh, the the big thing that the state board of education does in addition to running the protocol for Texas is creating the content of what will appear in textbooks that will show up all over the nation. And so that that is a big reason why what you and by the way, it's not that Texas students aren't important because they are. I mean, these these state board of education people, they vote to see what Texas students are going to get, but somebody's got to publish that. And and so up to now it's been Scott Foresman or Pearsall or McGraw-Hill or some of the big publishers. And that's the other thing that Texas is now doing. We're so large that we've decided that this time with our standards, we're going to publish our own textbooks here in Texas for history and social studies, which means that now 100% of what we come up with on the State Board of Education is going into the textbooks. That will make a very conservative, very constitutional, very historically accurate textbook, as opposed to trying to include the DEI stuff of California and all the other stuff they have. So when that Texas published that Texas textbook comes out this cycle, I think we're going to see a massive surge of other more conservative, less woke states saying, hey, we want the Texas textbooks. So I think it'll become a national textbook very quickly once it's released.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah, so vitally important, not just for us, but but for the rest of the country. And of course, Tim, as you've been going around and testifying in these state legislatures on some of these, you know, Bible in schools, getting the Ten Commandments back in schools, that's a big part of what this fight was about as well, just for the reading list.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

It is, because it goes to a lot of the history and tradition standard, which we currently have. But so many legislators, at which at that point also we could include so many Americans, so many parents, so many teachers, academics, they don't know much of the history of the nation, at least the way that they should, uh, the way that we understand it, you know, they know some kind of sanitized or secularized version. And so some of the opposition and pushback are because they don't recognize, for example, that the foundational components of the Bible in early America or the Ten Commandments on the legal code in America, et cetera. If they knew it, that there might be some worldview pushback, and of course I think there would, because uh your worldview drives so much of what you do, but then you're having a different argument than the argument that we might hear that, well, listen, Christianity was never really part, the founding fathers didn't believe in God, or they were secularists or they wanted a separation church and state. It changes the whole narrative if we actually knew the story. And so working to get good things in education can help change the trajectory of the nation by helping the rising generation know the truth of our nation.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah, great stuff, guys. And we've got a we've got a great member of the State Board of Education joining us. Actually, young guys, like 30 years old, doing a fantastic job on the state board and uh willing to come on with us today and kind of update us on this battle last week and where this thing is going and the impact that it will have. Uh Brandon Hall with us when we return from the break. Stay with us, you're listening to the Wall Builder Show.

A Patriot Pastor And Liberty

SPEAKER_02 6:10

This is Tim Barton from Wall Builders with another moment from American history. American Patriot Paul Revere wrote to alert Americans of the impending arrival of the British, but he also stopped Patriot leaders Samuel Adams and John Hancock to warn them that the British were sticking their execution. Adams and Hancock were staying with the Reverend Jonas Clark in Lexington. When they asked Pastor Clark if his church was ready for the approaching British, he replied, I've trained them for this very hour. They will fight and, if need be, die under the shadow of the House of God. Later that morning, 70 men from his church faced several hundred British in the first battle of the war for independence. As Pastor Clark affirmed, the militia that morning were the same who filled the pews of the church meeting house on the Sunday morning before. The American church was regularly at the forefront of the fight for liberty. For more information on this pastor and other colonial patriots, go to wallbuilders.com.

Big Wins On Standards And Classics

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Welcome back to the Wall Builder Show. Thanks for staying with us. Brandon Hall with us from the State Board of Education, who did just by the way an amazing job. I went down there to testify. And uh man, Brandon, I watched you ask questions and respond and just masterful, respectful. It was some of the best civil discourse I've seen in a long time. Brandon, thanks for coming on, man. Thanks for having me, Rick.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

I'm really excited about some of the big wins that we had last week by the grace of God and ready to talk about them.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

You know, it was a um it was a touch and go kind of thing for a while there. It looked like it was gonna be a really, really close vote. Possibly that we were gonna lose a lot of the good stuff that y'all have been working on for the curriculum standards and uh just great victories by the uh by the end of the week. So let's dive in. Would you would you explain a little bit about what these are? What what does it mean when we say the standards or the reading list?

SPEAKER_03 7:58

Yeah, well, and and I'm glad that you brought them both up because we had two big simultaneous wins, which is that the State Board of Education gave initial approval both to, first of all, a an incredible set of social studies standards that are Texas and America and Western civilization focused. And uh we bring back a lot of uh great factual history that had been kind of through revisionism throughout the years taken out of our classrooms that are big significant parts of America and and even world history. And then um at the same time, we also gave initial approval to a required literary works list to where we'll bring a lot of the great classics uh back into our classrooms in the state of Texas and even key passages of the Bible that are sort of foundational passages. And so um that's a lot you we've seen for quite a while, we've seen uh more modern works come into our classrooms that are a lot more shallow than the classics. And so that was also a huge win to see both of those things happen at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

And this will this will affect we've got audience all over the country, and you know, they need to know what you guys do on the state board of education in Texas affects most of these other states because it's so expensive to do this process. By the time you do the textbooks, a lot of the other states they just say, Man, we're gonna pick up what Texas did. So this is this is a national impact you guys are having.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

That's for sure. It a lot of it goes back to the market share in the textbook industry. Texas is this has the second largest uh market for textbooks, and so you'll have California will be the first largest market. So a lot of the blue states will follow what California does. And you know, up to 20 red states usually are closely following Texas because those textbook companies can sell textbooks there as well. And so uh what we do here is really gonna set the standard across the country, and especially with those social studies standards, um, we're really pioneering um, you know, how to teach history in a chronological manner across the story arc of history, and and we're the first state to really pick that up.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Well, and and and all so many great things that that you guys got back in. And honestly, you know, we were we were thinking when we came down and testified and rallied all these people, uh, you know, we're just we're just hoping to stop bad amendments. You guys actually ended up getting some good amendments in. It actually got better by the end of the week.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

What happened? Yeah, we really um, you know, rather than just being on the defensive, we went on the offense. And a lot of that was because, you know, Texas Patriots really showed up and and roared like a lion. And um, we really heard, you know, both sides. A lot of times we hear from the left because the left tends to be very organized through a lot of their Soros-funded nonprofits. And so a lot of times that's the only voice that we hear uh working in government. But this time we heard from Patriots, just grassroots patriots from across the state of Texas, uh, that wanted good factual history. And I think that gave um, you know, us the courage that we needed to really go on the offense. And so we were able to put in some great amendments. I mean, we're we're talking about things that have been left out of history for a long time, like the role of the Great Awakening in the independence movement uh in the colonies, the role of the Black Robe Regiment in the revolution, um, the fact that our pilgrim ancestors came here um to advance the Christian faith. You know, those are some of the great amendments that we got passed. And I have to give a lot of credit to my Republican colleagues and uh especially Julie Pickering on proposing some of those amendments. And uh it was amazing to just see them pass.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

I love that you said uh the Great Awakening, because you know, the movie A Great Awakening came out a couple of weeks ago. And so what great timing for y'all to get uh get that into the into the textbooks. That's really cool. What about the so like on the reading list? When I was there, I was hearing so many people get up and say, Well, I'm a Christian, but I don't want the Bible in the classroom or a teacher having influence on the Bible. I mean, it was you know, they they know how the left knows how to act like they're you know our people and and somehow against what what we're for. And you just did a masterful job of picking that apart. But I was getting worried that there was so much of that. I guess y'all are used to that. Like you said, the left shows up, uh, but it seems like you were able to keep all of that in. I mean, teaching kids the Good Samaritan and all kinds of other Greek principles that come from the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

Yeah, well, I mean, think about it, Rick, and and I want the audience to think about it. Why did we ever stop teaching the best-selling book of all time as a work of literature?

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

It really doesn't make any sense. And when we were looking at these other key classical works of literature that, you know, have really shaped our country. Um, the Bible is the most referenced work of literature by other works of literature. And so it's really, of course, you know, we believe that it's truth and we believe that it's profitable for every everyone. And that's one of the questions that I was asking to some of our testifiers that would say that they were a pastor or a Christian, but they were against teaching the Bible in schools. Well, don't we believe that it's profitable for everyone? And we believe that it's truth. And that's why it's had such a big impact on Western civilization and especially America and the levels of prosperity and freedom that we see in America. That's not by accident. That's because our nation was founded on the truth of God's word and these key principles. And so it's actually impossible to have a complete education without understanding these key passages from the Bible that have really shaped the world that we live in and especially America and the state of Texas. Amen.

Bible Passages As Foundational Literature

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Amen. Oh, so good. Talk to us a little bit about process. So so you guys have have had this vote last week. What happens next?

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Well, I I thank you for bringing that up because it's very important that uh your audience continues to stay engaged with what's coming next. This was first reading and filing authorization, so it's initial approval. And I don't want to take away from the big win that happened, because once you get that those things established, um, you know, we're in a really good position moving to the next stage. But we have one final step, which is what we passed um this last week with the literary works list and the social studies standards will come back to the board in June for final approval. And so we just need everyone to stay locked in, stay engaged. And I think that prayer was such an important part of the first stage. Because when you're talking about bringing key passages from the Word of God back into classrooms for the first time in 60 years, I'll tell you that wasn't just um, you know, something that we're able to do politically. That was God working and moving in hearts. And so I really want everybody to continue to pray and to continue to stay engaged for June.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Oh, that's good. That's good. Well, we'll certainly remind the audience. Um, Brady, tell us a little bit about you, man. I I I, you know, people don't realize you when you run for state board of education in Texas, you've got more than twice the constituency of a congressman, and you've got a massive district. This is a difficult race to win. It's hard to raise money because it's just a it's a tough race, but it is so, so important. And I think David Barton's been involved in state board of education races since goodness, the 80s maybe. I know in the 90s for sure. Um, so we've always thought it was important, but most people don't pay attention to it. Anyway, so you've you've got a very important position there in the state of Texas. You're also a pastor, which I think is totally cool. We need more pastors serving in public office like this.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

So, what got you engaged? Well, I never saw myself running for the State Board of Education. That was nothing that I ever aspired to. Um, but I really felt called by the Lord to get into the race initially. And then once I got in, you know, just door after door opened up in front of me. And a lot of people would have said, Well, you're not a classroom teacher. Um, how can you be involved in public education? But I think it was really important to have a good outside voice, um, also involved in the process. It's good to have expertise from teachers, but you need an outsider sometimes. And so God just really opened up every door in front of us in an incredible way that, you know, almost surprised everybody, including me. And I think that, you know, God has me here for such a time as this. But I am privileged also to pastor a local church in a little town called Springtown. And I'm so thankful for it. And actually, when I was running for office, one of the promises that I made on the campaign trail, I tried to be careful about making too many promises, but one of the things that I did say is that I knew social study standards were coming up, and that was kind of the real important thing. And I I told everyone that if they would elect me, uh, if David Barton would consider serving, I would definitely appoint him to be an expert content advisor. And so that was one of the highlights of my career on the SBOE so far is being able to make that happen.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

That's amazing. Oh, so cool, so cool. And I and I I'll tell you, it came in, it came in strategically handy several times during the testimony because there were these, you know, liberal groups that got up and and I'm a pastor, and da-da-da. And you you asked some great questions that you were able to say as a pastor. Yeah, you know, it was just it was great. So God used it in a in a really cool way as well uh during the testimony. So well, man, what's your uh what what's your term like? When when are you up again?

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Well, I would be up in 2028, so I'm still uh in the second year of my term right now.

Debates Over Teaching Islam And Jihad

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Gotcha. Okay, cool. And I understand another pastor won a primary somewhere up in the Dallas area. I can't remember the the district, so they'll be with you starting in January. So then we'll have two pastors on the State Board of Education. It'll be amazing. Um, we're just uh we're just so thankful for you, Brandon. Thank you. Thank you for the hard work you've been doing. Thanks for sharing the victory with us. And oh, oh, one other thing before I let you go, I'm sorry I'm uh going a little bit long here, but um uh it sounded like you also got some of the the real history of Islam into the into the standards as well, which is you know the fact that Muhammad, you know, was you know a pedophile, married the six-year-old, and all that, all of the things that people don't know. Um, you just basically got some amendments in that said, hey, we got this increased Muslim population and people are talking about this, they need to know the history here. Is that is that true? Did I hear that correctly?

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Well, it is true that we made a lot of progress, uh, again, going on the offensive, not just keeping the indoctrination out, but you know, telling some of the real history. And here's why I thought that was really important, because um, this is you know the fastest growing religion in the world. And, you know, according to the the demographers, it's supposed to be the number one religion in the world and by 2070. And so I think such a significant religion. And then you have the founder, Mohammed, is one of the most pivotal characters in history, and really his teachings and his followers have really shaped, you know, so much of our history, even to this day. We're in a conflict with Iran. It really could go back to a lot of those teachings. And so I think um that it's important for our students to understand who founded this religion and what did he believe, and then how have those beliefs influenced our history? And so that that is an amendment that I made um to talk a little bit about Muhammad. That one did not pass this time, but we did get some good references when we talk about terrorism, especially on 9-11. We were able to add in that it was Islamic terrorism. How could you understand Islam 9-11 without understanding that? And then we also talked about how jihad, this is one that did pass, that the teachings of jihad uh influenced the expansion of Islam and also the conquering of Christian lands.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Wow, that's good. Okay, okay, well, cool. Well, at least we got some of that in there. So important to the conversation, like you said, is as this is exploding uh across the world and now in the U.S. as well. Um, so we'll keep uh keep an eye on that one as well. Brandon, we're gonna have to get you back, man. And and uh, do you know the dates for June? Can we go ahead and tell people about that or is that set yet?

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Um, I I need to we still need to figure out when the public testimony and everything will be for June. So I would say uh just stand by for those dates.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

You got it. You got it. All right, Brandon Hall from the State Board of Education in Texas. Appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Rick. Have a great day. You two stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

This is Tim Barton from Wall Builders with another moment from American history. As the American War for Independence began, the president of Yale was the Reverend Nastalie Daggett. When New Haven, the home of Yale, came under attack, about a hundred citizens rushed out to meet the British. The Reverend Daggett galloped by them on horseback, his clerical robes flowing behind him in the wind, and he took up a solitary position atop a hill. The 2500 British soon put the townsfolk to flight, but the Reverend Daggett continued to stand alone, firing down on the advancing troops. A British officer confronted him. What are you doing there, you old fool? If I let you go, will you ever fire again on the troops of his majesty? Nothing more likely, was the preacher's reply. America's early pastors personally confronted danger and courageously led their communities. For more information on Pastor Daggett and other colonial patriots, go to wallbuilders.com.

Why Showing Up Still Matters

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Welcome back to the Wall Builder Show. Thanks to Brandon Hall for joining us and for the good work he's doing on the State Board of Education back with David and Tim now. And guys, we got uh I mean things in there this time. I guess David, you've you've probably had multiple attempts at trying to get some of these things in over the last few decades. You got to be pleased with where the direction this is going.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Well, this is the first time we've been able to get substantive changes really made. Uh part of that is because uh now they have there are nine of us that are appointed, two by the governor, seven by the state board of education, to come up with the core content. And I would say out of that nine, uh a a good seven of them are we're all of the same viewpoint in the sense that you tell all the history, the good, the bad, the ugly. You don't whitewash it, you don't politicize it, you you don't eliminate the religious stuff because you think that religion shouldn't be in history. You just tell the history, you tell the story. And so that helps a whole lot. And then as you move through the process, uh we keep running into teachers' groups and others, and those those teachers' groups will try to eliminate a lot of stuff out of there. Their problem is a lot of what happened in history they've never heard before. And so when they see something that, well, I've never heard that, they don't want to go l learn and teach it. They just want to keep teaching what they've been teaching. And the stuff we've been teaching is the stuff out of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, etc., instead of what's been accurately part of American history in the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s. So it's it's a lot of pushback. And then when you get to the State Board of Education, Then you start having all the lobbyists show up. And so all these lobbyists and Democrats spend tend to spend money on education like Republicans don't, and they spend it on trying to get textbooks warped in their direction to help them. And so they they get a lot of groups showing up at the state board. I mean, Rick, you guys were there testifying, and the other group that was the most active in testifying is how the textbooks need to be filled with pro-Islamic stuff. Islamic groups that mobilized them were there. And so generally, conservatives and generally uh God-fearing people don't show up that much at state board meetings. And so it really is a tough process to get through, especially when you're dealing with education, which has been an idol of the left for the last century at least. I mean, that's kind of the idol at which they worship and do all their sacrifices. And it's it's starting to change now, and it's starting to change in Texas, which means it will come to the rest of the nation.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

It's really it it's it's neat to see the involvement too. I was so thrilled to see so many different groups down there. I mean, people bust in literally from Dallas and all over the state to be there. They gave good testimony, they you know it was well thought out, good inner you know, intellectual disc discussion with the board members themselves. Uh that part was was really good. And Tim, I was thinking, you know, what a great way to show people that when you come out and testify, when you get involved, it does make a difference. You do get victories.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Yeah, this is something that uh hopefully is encouraging for people to know that if if we get involved, we can make a difference. And uh we also guys can be really honest that there have been times we got involved and it did not work out the way we wanted, but it doesn't mean you don't keep showing up. Uh, we know the Bible calls us uh to be faithful, not always to be successful. That the the parables that Jesus told where he he explained to the disciples it was well done, good and faithful servant, not well done, really successful servant. So you don't always do it because you're successful, but it sure is rewarding when you have success, and especially in our constitutional republic, where we the people are in charge, where it it's supposed to work off the consent of the governed. When we show up, it really can make a difference. And Dad, one of the things that I was even thinking uh when when Brandon was talking about some of the incredible things coming and and the Great Awakenings influence and the Bible uh being the most significant literature or piece of literature in arguably the history of the world, not even arguably it is, but but the some of the things that you've been talking about literally for decades, when you've been fighting on the state board, it seems like some of the things we did this time, you didn't even always advocate as loudly for because you knew like if they're not gonna accept the really, really basic ones. They're not gonna accept the true things that are deeper. And the fact that now that this is one of the best encompassing, more honest looks at history that the State Board of Education in Texas maybe has ever had. It is so encouraging, and Rick, as you point out, it wasn't without a fight, and that's why it matters that we keep showing up, we keep letting our voice be heard, but man, we can praise God in this moment, look at all the good that is coming.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

And it's not just look, again, it's not just for Texas. Everybody's gonna eventually get this. Now, it's not gonna come in the next year or two. It takes a while, it takes a while for the textbooks to be published, but it is, I think, also an indication of the tone and the atmosphere that's out there right now. Uh, these are things that were not possible 10 years ago, and these are things that we dreamed about 20 years ago and 30 years ago, and now they're becoming reality. And that's the thing I think is so interesting is people who are in a revival really historically never recognize they're in a revival until historians afterwards said, Hey, did you know that was a revival? Because you're you're just living day to day, and not that much changes from day to day. It changes from year to year, decade to decade. And as you look back, you go, wow, that's remarkable. And so we're in the daily battles, and you know, Rick, you were down there in the middle of that battle with all that was going on with all the groups that bust in, our side and their side. And that's the kind of stuff you see on a day-to-day basis, and you don't really recognize how far we've made progress. But there is absolutely no question that this is more progress that's been made. I'm going to say, uh, probably since at least the progressive era of the 1920s and 30s, this is some of the biggest prog, because they took so much of the American history out at that point. This is some of the biggest steps back in the right direction in perhaps a century.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Wow. That's that's huge, brother. Well, to all of our listeners, you have friends who have been listening to all these black pilled, you know, uh podcasters depressing every day, everything's falling apart. Uh, you need to send the today's program to those friends and let them know there's good stuff happening. In fact, as David just said, some of the best stuff we've seen in near literally a century. So this is really, really good news. Hope you'll share it with your friends and family. Thanks so much for listening to the Wall Buller Show.