Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us today on the WallBuilders Show, wallbuilders.show is the website for the radio program wallbuilders.com for everything else. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. And by the way, when you visit wallbuilders.com start making plans for this summer, if you're a teacher, go to the teacher training, get young people to one of our programs, Pastor's Briefing's coming up. I don't know guys, we may be full for the April one, but we got another one coming up in September, right? 

Tim Barton [00:00:37] Yes, and it's always worth... If somebody can make it in April, it's not unusual that we'll have a pastor or two, the week of, the week before, go man I don't think my schedule's gonna work, I can't come. So, it's, not unusual that we might have a couple of spots open up the week of. So, I would say, you know, go ahead and sign up just on the outside chance that there is availability. Because it's going to be so fun this April. This April is also the overlap of America Reads the Bible another huge event going on up in DC. So, lots of reasons to be in DC in this April one, but it doesn't work certainly September would be a great time to be there. At that point there's probably lots of statues and things still out on the mall scattered around DC, which kind of on a side note, Dad, at some point we might can talk about being able to suggest some names and some of the statues that might be there. And just some of open doors that God's given us to to help some of leaders making decisions know who some really great American heroes are that are worth remembering, honoring and celebrating. So, all that stuff is gonna be up there, at any rate, people need a plan on trying to be in DC if they can. And certainly, if you're pastor in April or September we'd love to have you join us for one of our Pastors Briefing 

Rick Green [00:01:57] If I may ask, Tim, and I'm assuming y'all probably have a rough schedule. I know sometimes the congressman's schedules change and stuff, but you're still doing them like you used to do it, right? Where you do just like rapid fire. You have a lot of different people come in and they give 20, 30-minute presentations, but to get to hear from a lot of folks with, that are implementing biblical world worldview in DC. So when you get done, you're just like, wow, I didn't know there was that many people that even had that worldview and to get to hear what, how they're applying that to what's going on in DC, it helps a pastor then go home and do that. Does that make sense? That's what I'm saying today. 

Tim Barton [00:02:25] Yeah, that's exactly right. One of the things that foundational, we always do a spiritual heritage tour of the Capitol, which the private after-hours tour of the Capitol on Tuesday night. And then on Wednesday, we have a bunch of friends that are in the house and the Senate and they will come. And it's really every 15 or 20 minutes, we try to have another one dropped by. And of course, it might change based on who has a committee or a vote or something going on. But yeah, we have a dozen plus congressmen and senators that'll come by and connect with these pastors. And one of the things that becomes very evident when you start hearing from these congressmen, congresswomen, these senators is for people that are familiar with the Bible, that there's such a disconnect in modern culture that a lot of times we look at the Bible and we think of it as a very spiritual thing connected to us individually, maybe our family, sometimes the church, but. The Bible actually has way more guidance for government than it does for the church or for the family, which is kind of a crazy thought. And yet for people that are familiar with the Bible, if you start analyzing it, you realize, wow, this is completely true. There's way more the Bible says addressing government and to government leaders, to government officials, to government as an entity in general. And when you hear from some of these congressmen and congresswomen, they are people who absolutely understand what the Bible says about government, and they're really working to apply it. So, it's very encouraging for pastors, hopefully emboldened them to go back and speak some of this biblical truth, help even their own congregants see, what does the Bible say in regard to this other entity that God created, this other institution, government? Where are those lines? What is the jurisdiction, the responsibility, the commands, because there's an awful lot there. And that's why the Bible says, when the rights are an authority, the people are choice. When the wicked rural people groan, the Bible tells us that righteousness exalts a nation. The reason all those things are there is because of the guidance the Bible gives to government. And so yeah, Rick, to your point, so many congressmen and senators will come and just share part of their story, their testimony, what they're working on up on the hill right then. We never know what they are gonna say, but it's always super special. So, if you are a pastor, if you're on staff at a church, we would love to have you come join us. Again, there might be a spot or two left in April, if not in September, but please come join us. You will be so encouraged and we'd love to give you a tour of the city and get to connect and meet with you. 

Rick Green [00:04:53] Now, David, the only problem with everything Tim just said is that's just, that's just recent current guys. Like there's no evidence in the Capitol that 200 years ago, there were people of faith there. I mean, there's not anything in paintings, 200 years old. There's no statues, nothing chiseled in stone. Just, you know, just modern guys, right? 

David Barton [00:05:11] I just finished going through tonight with some congressional folks, and I didn't see anything in there that suggested faith. 

Rick Green [00:05:18] Oh, you did a tour tonight too, or last night. 

David Barton [00:05:20] I don't know. There's probably not more than four or five hundred things that I can point to, so there's not much there. 

Rick Green [00:05:28] Just a few. Yeah, well, and I would think that this year, doing those tours in the 250th, getting to celebrate that history, you know, people are paying more attention to it. It's even more impactful. So yeah, really encourage pastors to go do that. David's not kidding, man. That is, it's, I think it's one of those powerful things. WallBuilders has ever done in this, you know, 40-year history of, of really bringing history back to life, doing it right there in the, in the U S capital. Absolutely incredible. Well, hey guys, Ray Comfort is going to be with us. So, when we come back from the break, there was a, there was a billboard that somebody, I don't know the guy's name, but there was the guy that actually was willing to climb up on this billboard. I don't even know who took out the paid for the billboard? I think, I think the article we have talks about it with some group that's just definitely anti-God, said Jesus is not God. And so, some guy climbed up there and painted over the "not", so Ray's going to be with us to give us a little input on, you know, is that good, bad, you know, who is this group and what is this battle for the public's opinion of whether or not God even exists. We'll be back in a moment with Ray Comfort. 

Rick Green [00:08:38] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us, folks. Ray Comfort back with us. Founder and CEO of Living Waters. Oh man, it's always good to have you on, bro. 

Ray Comfort [00:08:45] Good to be on. Thank you, the world's fastest talker. You sound an auctioneer. 

Rick Green [00:08:50] Going once, going twice. Sold to the man with the shaded glasses on the street, sharing the gospel with people all over the world. Hey, listen, you're always doing stuff, but I know we're gonna talk about this billboard thing, but first catch us up on Living Waters. What do you guys got going next? 

Ray Comfort [00:09:06] You really want to know? 

Rick Green [00:09:07] Y'all are always producing new documentaries or films 

Ray Comfort [00:09:11] We're having an outreach in the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics. We've got these gold coins, a million being printed. They weigh as much as a golf ball. They've got a runner on one side and the gospel on the other. And so, we're gonna share that vision of what we're doing in the Olympics coming up real soon. But one million gold coins. People are gonna snap them up like hotcakes in a cold, day in Alaska. 

Rick Green [00:09:33] And that's, this reminds me of years ago, you always had some kind of dollar bill people would pick up with the gospel. You've always had something to get people's attention. You're a master at it. Love it. What do you think about this billboard thing where these, I mean, they're just basically trying to, you know, refute the gospel and lead people astray and deceive them. And so some guy, uh you know climbed up on the, the billboard and, and, uh and painted over the "not" in, Jesus is not God. What are your thoughts on this? 

Ray Comfort [00:10:04] Well, I wouldn't advocate doing it, but I just love that. I wanted to do it myself. And I'll tell you why, like 15, 20 years ago, maybe 20 years, I was driving in my car, my daughter and my wife were with me, and my daughter says, oh, don't look at that, it's a disgusting billboard. Well, I looked and it was a disgusting Billboard. And at ABC, we're having an upcoming documentary on Cleopatra, and there's this woman lying, and she's just completely in her birthday suit, except for a towel across her bottom of her legs. And I thought, that's disgusting. So, I went to Home Depot and purchased an 18-foot ladder, went and purchased a huge orange blanket, got a big industrial stapler. At six o'clock in the morning, I climbed up in the billboard and put that blanket over that woman's naked body. And I'll let any gentleman do the same. And then I sent a news release to ABC, say, come and get me for wrecking your billboard. I wanted them to take me to court, but they didn't. Because I was gonna say, how dare you come into our neighborhood and put a half-naked woman up on a big billboard. So, some pervert rapes my wife or my daughter because you're stirring them up with your dirty porn. But they didn't do it. So, I don't advocate doing that, but I sure rejoice in that guy doing that. 

Rick Green [00:11:13] No kidding. Now what year was that that happened? 

Ray Comfort [00:11:16] Probably about 2009 or something like that. It was a long time ago when I was very unwise. 

Rick Green [00:11:23] Well, speaking of wise, Ray, talk to us about just discernment among the body of Christ right now and how easily we are distracted into whatever it is, conspiracy theories or just these esoteric arguments, and we just seem really vulnerable. I mean, I guess it's always been that way. Paul warns about it, but it seems like there's more attacks and that we aren't grounded, and so we are easily persuaded. Is that the right way to ask that? 

Ray Comfort [00:11:53] Yeah, well I, I'm starting to believe in a flat sun. No. Yeah, you know, we forget that the body of Christ is filled with false converts. Jesus spoke of tares among the wheat, foolish virgins among the wise, bad fish among the good, goats among the sheep. They're going to be sorted out on Judgment Day. So, when you realize that, that not everyone who names the name of Christ departs from iniquity, but there are many who are victims of the modern gospel. It says come to Jesus, he'll fix all your problems, and they come to Jesus, and then they have to be held within the church for entertainment. And motivational speaking from the pulpit. They're not converted, neither are those in the pulpit. And so, when you realize that, you don't wonder where all these conspiracy theories come from. And the people are not grounded in the faith; they don't believe the Bible fully. When you understand the scriptures, you don't run off being blown about by every wind of doctrine. You talk about the things that really matter. And what matters is this world is going to hell, and if we've got love in our heart, we'll want to warn them. And the analogy I use, and I even use it with non-Christians, and it resonates with them. I say, I'm gonna test your character, okay? And they say, okay. You're walking past this wooden building and you look down, it's on fire. It's two stories and know there's a guy who's a night shift worker and he always sleeps in that room every afternoon. So, he's gonna be burned to death within about five minutes because you can see it started to catch fire. And so, you get a rock in your throat at the window. He comes to the window and he says, what are you doing? Get out of here. You say, there's fire in your basement. He says, there is not. Get out here. I'm going to call the police if you keep this up. He slams the window and walks off. What are you gonna do? Say, okay, buddy, burn to death, or are you going to throw more rocks at that window? Are you gonna smash on his door? If you've got love and caring for that guy, you'll scream, you'll throw rocks, you'll bang on the door, and that's the dilemma we've got with the ungodly. They're asleep and they're in terrible danger. If they die in their sins, they're gonna be damned in hell. And so God's given us a rock to throw at their window. That rock is the moral law, the 10 Commandments. When you say to someone, do you think you're a good person? They say, yeah, I'm a good person. They're obviously asleep to their sin. So, what you gotta do is throw rocks at them. How many lies have you told? Ever stolen something? Ever used God's name in vain? Jesus said, if you look at a woman, lust after her, you commit adultery with her in your heart. Have you ever done that? He says, yeah. So, you just told me you're a lying thief, a blasphemer and an adulterer at heart and you've gotta face God on Judgment Day. Can you smell the smoke? And often people say, whoa, I can see what you're saying. You know, what should I do? So, my agenda isn't just to awaken people, it's to alarm them. You don't want to wake up and say, yeah, this is on fire, thanks a lot, buddy. Go back to sleep. No, you want them to run out of that building and that's what we want to do with the lost, say you're in terrible danger if you die in your sins, you're going to hell, flee to Jesus Christ. And the Bible likens us to firefighters or that analogy is applicable, isn't it? It says others making a difference, having compassion, pulling them from the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. And what's happened with the contemporary church is that we've lost our way. We've forgotten the agenda of the church. We've forgot that Jesus saved us from wrath to come and every human being needs a savior and everyone's got a will to live and they're crying out, I don't want to die. So the church has a moral obligation to reach out to them and take the gospel to them. And that's why I'm alive and that's the only reason I live for. 

Rick Green [00:15:19] Amen. Amen. We've talked a lot about the last six months or so here on the program about discipleship and what to do once they come in. How do you tell the difference between a false convert and someone that has really surrendered and that wants to be discipled? 

Ray Comfort [00:15:37] Yeah, firstly, I believe when someone becomes a Christian, they become a disciple, and then you feed them, nourish them, and make sure they get the fellowship. I see every Christian having the moral responsibility to reach out to the lost. We should stir Christians up and equip them to share their faith. Every single person, that gospel command was to all people, go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. And people say, how do you know which ones to witness to? Well, if they're breathing, I witness to them. If they're not breathing, it's too late. And so, we should reach out and ask, how can you tell a false convert? Fruit. You can tell what's in someone's heart by what comes out of their mouth. Jesus said, the mouth speaks the abundance of a heart. So, if a man is blaspheming and cussing, you know something's radically wrong within his heart. There's the fruit of righteousness, the fruit a praise, the fruit thanksgiving, the fruit the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, generous faith, meekness and temperance, and the fruit of repentance. If there's no fruit, Jesus said every tree that brings not good fruit, forth good fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire. So, every Christian should examine himself and see if he's in the faith. And if there's no fruit, we need to get on our knees and say, God, this is my eternity. This is what I'm gonna spend forever. Heaven or hell, I don't wanna hear you say, depart from me, you worker of iniquity, I never knew you. That'd be a most horrific thing to ever hear. So, we examine ourself and see if we're in the faith and we look to others. The Bible says mark those that cause division. Keep an eye on them. Don't toss them out in the church because you might toss out someone who's genuine, but you just watch them. And see if they're living in righteousness and if they're not, then you can say, hey, I'm a bit concerned for your salvation. When did you last read your Bible? And they'll say something like this. A couple of years ago, when did you ask blaspheme God's name? Oh, that was yesterday. You're looking at pornography. Yeah, yeah, I do that a lot. Well, there's no fruit. And he needs to be challenged. And the way to challenge him is just say this one question. Do you think you're a good person? Some of you professes to be a Christian. A false convert will almost always say, Yeah, I'm a morally good person. Why do they say that? Because they don't understand God's holiness. They've never seen His righteousness. The Bible says every man will proclaim his own goodness. So, they need the moral law to stir their conscience and tell them that if you lust, you commit adultery in your heart, lying lips from abomination to the Lord. If you hate your brother, you're a murderer in God's sight. And suddenly they'll begin saying, I didn't realize God's standard was that high. I need a savior. And that's when they repent and trust in Him who died for us and rose again on the third day. 

Rick Green [00:18:12] Amen. You've written more books than I've had years on this earth, maybe twice as many books as I've had years, on this Earth. But Revival's Golden Key is still my favorite and still to this day, I think about it for evangelism and a lot of other areas as well. 

Ray Comfort [00:18:27] Well, that's got a new title. It's called God Has a Wonderful Plan for Your Life: the Myth of the Modern Message. In fact, Charlie Kirk- 

Rick Green [00:18:34] I didn't know that. 

Ray Comfort [00:18:35] Charlie Kirk commended it just before he was tragically killed. 

Rick Green [00:18:39] Oh, wow. 

Ray Comfort [00:18:41] Yeah, so it's got that new title. It's called God Has a Wonderful Plan for Your Life, and it's a picture of Stephen being stoned to death on the front, which is part of the wonderful plan. And it challenges us to say, is that what we should tell sinners when James was beheaded, John the Baptist was behead, all the disciples were killed? Read Fox's Book of Martyrs for bedtime reading, and you realize the foundation of the church is soaked in blood and we shouldn't be telling people that God has a wonderful plan because you could be killed for Christ's sake. Jesus warned the time will come when people will kill you to think they're doing God a favor. The reason we come to Jesus is to have our sins washed away, not to find a wonderful plan. Christianity doesn't offer a smooth flight, but it does offer a safe landing and that's what matters. 

Rick Green [00:19:27] Ton of resources available at livingwaters.com. Not only that book with the new title, the Evidence Bible, which is a fantastic, fantastic study. Man, I remember Bruce Colley of former San Francisco 49ers giving me one of those 25 years ago, Ray, I think it was maybe 20, anyway. 

Ray Comfort [00:19:44] It's just come out and it's just came out in leather, which is wonderful. 

Rick Green [00:19:48] Nice, nice. All right, livingwaters.com. Ray, before I let you go, how can people help you with the doing the coins for the Olympics? Cause that's two years away. What do we got? Two and a half years. 

Ray Comfort [00:19:57] Yeah, yeah two years away. They could go to livingwaters.com/gold  and there they could sign up for a newsletter so when the coins come in and we'll have them pretty soon, we're gonna start feeding them out. But you've got no idea logistically how difficult it is both to store and give out a million gold coins. So it's gonna take some time, but we're getting it worked out. 

Rick Green [00:20:20] Nice. 

Ray Comfort [00:20:20] So livingwatters.com/gold

Rick Green [00:20:24] Love it, love it. Hey, give EZ and the rest of the team our best. God bless you, brother. Look forward to getting you back soon. 

Ray Comfort [00:20:30] Ok Rick, God bless. 

Rick Green [00:20:31] Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:21:41] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Ray Comfort for joining us as well. Well, guys, going into the interview, I had no idea Ray had had his own billboard, billboard controversy, in his community is very interesting. 

Tim Barton [00:21:53] It's really funny to think about Ray Comfort getting a massive blanket and going and stapling it up on a billboard. I love it. And of course he says, look, I'm not encouraging people to go do these kinds of things, but he has been someone that's been a very bold, courageous leader for a long time. To see him do the street ministry he has for so many years, to go up and talk to non-believers and share the gospel with them. He has a lot of courage, but also so much wisdom. Rick, you talked about one of your favorite books that as Ray pointed out, has been repackaged available now. One of the things that I first got from him that really was impactful for me was a book and a teaching called Hell's Best Kept Secret. And part of what he even alluded to in the interview is that a lot of times people are told you put on the gospel as like the security blanket. And it's like, if you're in an airplane and someone says, hey, you know, if take this, then this parachute, it's gonna make your ride more comfortable and more enjoyable and you're gonna love this trip and then somebody comes along and spills coffee and there's this loud kid screaming and the person beside you elbows you and you like this parachutes terrible, it's not making this ride more enjoyable or more fun. But the reality is you don't put on a parachute for the enjoyment of the ride, you put on the parachute because you know, you might have to jump from that plane and ultimately that's kind of what he walks a parallel through Hell's Best Kept Secret is the devil has really kind of redirected the presentation of the gospel to just make it as easy and comfortable as possible, which is not what Jesus taught, that you're supposed to crucify the flesh and you take up your cross or you can't be his disciple. It's a very different message than some of the modern thought, but again, I'm so grateful for guys like Ray who not only have been so bold and courageous, but also who have set examples and done teachings and trainings where I literally did some training under a Ray Comfort program and then went and did some evangelism because of it. And so certainly grateful for what he's done. And guys, these, these gold coins that are coming out, I have those. I think it was the pennies that had the Ten Commandments on it right back in the day. It was something like that, and I had some of those coins, but even for now, these gold coins, I'm definitely going to check it out, hopefully get some and be able to share those this summer, maybe even up in D.C., so definitely grateful for all the things that Ray not only has done, but is still doing. 

David Barton [00:24:15] And guys, you know, Ray was also talking about false converts, and I guess that really kind of struck me, because this weekend I was out on the West Coast, and part of what I did was a couple TPUSA chapters, one was high school, and one was the college, and they were asking about the stuff with, like, Candace Owens and Israel. What do you say about Israel? And you know the easiest way not to be a false convert is simply to know God's word, and said, look, there's two verses in the Bible. If you accept those... then you gotta reject anything that contradicts that. And that's in Genesis 12, where he said, look, I've got a covenant with these people, and if you bless them, I'll bless you, and if don't bless them I won't bless you. And then, in addition to that, the other part is in Romans 11 where he says, you are not the root, the Jews are the root. You're grafted in, you're grafted in them, not the other way around. And if you accept those two tenets, that if you, if you bless the Jewish people, God's gonna bless you, and that it's not about you or Christians, it's about them as Jews. If you do that, you're not gonna have a false convert because you agree with what the Bible says. And I was just thinking about the false convert stuff. How many people wanna replace their own opinions for what God has made really clear, and then make it really complicated when it's not? And so, you know, Candace Owens and Fuentes and others that are going off on the Israel thing, that's like false converts because you're directly disagreeing some really simple Bible verses. It's not a hard concept. Those two Bible verses, that's all it takes. And we need more people like Ray's talking about that really do come back to Biblical inspired thoughts. 

Tim Barton [00:25:53] Well, and Dad, too, with that, you know, even this idea of false converts when he talks about you judge a tree by the fruit. It's one thing if somebody had a biblical disagreement, said, you know, but like I read Galatians three and I come to a different conclusion. But that's not what Candice Owens, for example, is doing. It's not what Nick Fuentes is doing, they're not having a biblical disagreement based on a different interpretation because they're reading other verses that seem to be contradictory. And again, The Bible's not contradictory, and if you see verses that contradict, this means we need to do a better Bible study and dig a little deeper and maybe find some details and nuance and context. But if you judge the rest of the fruit of the tree, you don't see the fruits of the spirit. You don't see the fruits of repentance or righteousness. And that's part of what Ray was talking about with false converts. So that is an interesting thought for sure. 

Rick Green [00:26:38] Well, special thanks to Ray Comfort for joining us today, and especially to you, the audience. Thanks for listening to The WallBuilders Show.