Rick Green [00:00:07] You found your way to the intersection of faith and culture. It's The WallBuilders Show. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach here with David and Tim Barton. Appreciate you joining us. What an opportunity we have to take what we bring to legislators. So, think about it. These are the people making the laws in all 50 states. These are people that are on the front lines, dealing with all the major issues, trying to head things off at the pass, trying deal with some of the evil that's out there, the very people that writing those laws, fighting those fights, the speakers we bring for them, to our Pro-Family Legislators Conference, we wanna bring to you our WallBuilders audience. Now, I also recognize that these hundreds and hundreds of legislators across the country are listening right now, okay, because they love WallBuilders' radio as well. So, I wanna thank them for listening to the program. So, for them, this is gonna be a repeat today if they were at the conference this year, which they don't all make it every year, but we really do appreciate having such a large network of these legislators and appreciate the hard work that they do. I think, you know, we... We forget and or maybe I forget since I was there as a legislator in the past and maybe you have never thought about the difficulty of being a legislator. Look these these people work hard to preserve our freedom so we're appreciate we appreciate the hard work that they do the sacrifices that they take. And we want to make sure you're inviting your state legislators to the Pro Family Legislators Conference. So, visit wallbuilders.com today go under events grab that legislator information and send it to your legislator. So, here's the presentation that we're gonna be sharing for the next couple of days. Yesterday, we had one from Alex Newman. Today, we're going to start with Tim Barton's presentation to the legislators, where he talks about the opportunity in the 250th, he talks about the Christian foundations of the country, talks about what it's gonna take for us to once again be a great nation. And we have to get back to what made us great in the first place, we have to be reminded that righteousness exalts a nation. So, this is gonna be really good over the next three days, so this is Tim's presentation. At the legislature, one of Tim's presentations. We shared the one on property rights a few weeks back. This one is on how righteousness exalts a nation. Really important information today, tomorrow, and the following day, and you can get all three of those at our website, wallbuilders.show, as we release them. Quick break, we'll be right back with Tim Barton speaking at the Pro-Family Legislators Conference. 

Rick Green [00:03:25] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show, jumping right in now with Tim Barton speaking at the Pro Family Legislators Conference. 

Tim Barton [00:03:31] One of the interesting things during the first great awakening, Benjamin Franklin was friends with George Whitefield and Franklin actually wrote about an evening where he was walking down the streets in Philadelphia and he said that he couldn't find a place where people weren't singing hymns and songs. And he actually talked about how encouraging it was because the tone, the attitude of Philadelphia was changing for the better as people were singing those songs. And I think it's unquestionable that God is on the move. I think there's a lot of things we could point to thinking not only is there something in the essence of a revival, it could be an awakening. And I thank what brother Dave just encouraged and challenged. When Benjamin Franklin is like, it's kind of cool when all these people are singing these songs and hymns and you can't go anywhere. That's pretty encouraging. It's a great thought and challenge. I wanna finish with tying some of these thoughts together. We've encouraged a lot of different ideas. You've heard from a lot speakers, you've heard some pastors. And as we get ready to celebrate, as we are looking at the 250th, one of the things that is very clear is as we are wanting to celebrate, and we should celebrate America, there will be a move, just like when the 1619 Project came out, there will a move saying, wait a second, we can't celebrate! Do you know how many bad things America's done? Et cetera, et cetera, right? We, at this point, know the pushback in general. And so, I wanna give you some thoughts. Some ammunition maybe to explain and tell the story of America but also seeing the Christian connection, big picture the reason one of many reasons America should be celebrated. As we are looking at our nation in general for 250 years there has been no nation where there's been more freedom stability or prosperity than in America and it's not even close. Well, that seems like a really good deal well how have we enjoyed that? One of the things that happened, there was a group of professors who wanted to do a research project and they basically asked a very simple question. It is, what is the average length of a constitution in the history of the world? And they went through, there's about 6,000 years of recorded human history, approximately. It's between five and six-thousand years, but they went back and they said, okay, so for the history of the word, what does the average length of constitution? You actually can look this study up. It was done at the law school, the University of Chicago. And what they concluded for all the thousands years of human existence is the length of an average constitution in the history of the world is 17 to 19 years. Depending on a couple of factors, right? But, but 17 years on September 17th, we celebrated 239 years living under the same governing document. We are the longest lasting ongoing constitutional Republic in the history of world. That that's a pretty big thing and worth celebrating. A few years before that, and again, I'm just giving you context as we should be celebrating the 250th, there's lots of reasons why. I just want to show you some of those evidences that you can utilize in conversations. One of the other things, if you back up a few years before this study, there was a group of professors, actually one professor led it, but he worked with other professors. Donald Lutz from the University of Houston. He wanted to know and this was actually back in the 1970s and 1980s because 1987 was the 200th anniversary and so he said leading into this we want to go back and explore the constitution lasting 200 years even back then they knew that's kind of special that's not normal. Why did the constitution work so well? Where did the ideas come from that's made this document so successful? And so, this was his idea for his research project. Again, he worked with many other professors in doing this. They wanted to go back and look at the Founding Fathers to explore where did these ideas come from and what they decided they would do is to understand it, the premise was if we know where the Founding Fathers got their ideas then we'll know what influenced them to put things in the constitution. And so, they said if we go back and let's say they picked a number 15,000 representative writings so we'll go through early state constitutions, we'll go through their written letters, we'll go through whatever we can find let's see from what the Founding Father's wrote let's see if they quote people. Because if they quoted people, then we can make a list and we'll track and categorize in that list. And if we know who they quoted, then we'll see who really influenced them. This was their idea. So, they went through 15,000 representative writings. In doing that, they found 3,154 quotes. And it's worth pointing out, they started this project in the 1970s for the buildup to 1987. Now, why in the world would you have to start in the 70s? To do research building up to 1987, because for many of you remember, research used to be a little different than it is today. Right? Today where you have incredible technology and right, just at your fingertips, in fact, with even AI right now, with ChatGPT and GROK, like it's incredible, some of the resources out there. Well, back then, if you were reading a George Washington letter and you found something in quotation marks, and you're like, well, I wonder what he's quoting right now. What Donald Lutz and these professors and their grad students would do, is they'd say, okay, well, let's just go to the library. Let's go to this section. It sounds like this quote came from, right? Whether it's history or political or science or whatever it is, and everybody get a book. And let's read until we find this quote. That is one of many things I am grateful for, for indoor plumbing, for electricity. Right? But as a researcher, I'm just telling you, I am so grateful that we don't have to go read and catalog the whole library to find where these things came from anymore. But what they did in finding these 3,154 quotes, it took them 10 years to do this. 

Rick Green [00:09:42] Quick break everybody, we'll be right back, you're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:10:52] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Tim Barton is speaking at the Pro-Family Legislators Conference, so let's pick up right where we left off. 

Tim Barton [00:11:00] As they put this together, their book came out. It was called the Origins of American Constitutionalism. And in this, they actually document where the ideas came from. And they actually go back to cite the people who the Founding Fathers quoted. And they do make a list. And this is a great resource to add to your repertoire for lots of reasons. But when, when people talk about the influence of the Founding Fathers, this is considered one of the most authoritative works to this point. Now there's a couple of professors we know that are going to redo this in the modern era, and I'm super excited about that. What is worth noting about this, there's several sections where they kind of list different categories and different topics and you can go and it's charted. So, it's super easy to navigate and go through. They identified the number one quoted individual by the Founding Fathers was Charles Montesquieu. He did Spirit of Laws. He was a Christian guy in the Enlightenment era. The second most quoted was William Blackstone. William Black Stone did Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, very foundational for all of the legal code in America. The Founding Fathers referenced Blackstone a lot. Then John Locke was the third most quoted. Now they did even identify in this work. John Lock was the most quoted during the American Revolution. But their study, they started from a little before the Revolution, through the Revolution all the way up to the Constitutional Convention, through the Bill of Rights, the first couple of Presidents. They looked at about a 45-year period as they're drawing this research. And they said, these are the top three most quoted individuals, and then it just goes down from there. So those voices are the most influential in the Founding Fathers as far as this context is concerned. But even though those are the most cited individuals, they were not the most cited source. The most cited source was the Bible. Thirty-four percent of all the quotes they found came out of the Bible, but let me give you a caveat with this. Donald Lutz, the head of this project, acknowledged, we only included what was in quotation marks. Had we included the obvious Bible references in their letter that were not in quotation marks, because as someone who's read a lot of their letters, the majority of their citations and quoting of the Bible, it's not in quotation marks. He said, had we included all of the obvious references, he said that number would have been far higher than 50%. Yep. In fact, I could argue over 60% for that matter, but here's why it matters. Because even in the parameters of the study, and you have to have parameters on the study to be able to have some kind of scientific analysis that you're doing, even in those parameters, the most influential source on the Founding Fathers was the Bible, and again, 34% is the low end of what that reality is. But even there, that's four times more than second place. What they realize is the Bible was the most influential source in the Founding Fathers. And I know that as we have this conversation, I have the opportunity at times to go speak on different college campuses. And I love talking about some of the faith foundation of the nation and most people, and this is not just unique on college campuses, most Americans, they would be very skeptical of the idea that the Founding Fathers were largely influenced by the Bible because we have the idea the Founding Father's were secular. They were atheist, agnostics, deists. They wanted separation of church and state. And what I would point out is you really can only come to that conclusion if you haven't said to the Founding Fathers very much. If you're not very familiar with them, and I say that with grace, because if you are of the position that you think they really weren't religious or they're atheist, agnostic, and deist, I would just say, I want to walk you through some details real quick. Because as an example, John Adams and 1813 wrote Thomas Jefferson, and if you remember some of the dynamic of their relationship during the revolution, they're working together. They're on the committee of five when they draft the Declaration, when, and actually they're both diplomats together. They're both doing things through the Revolution trying to find peace. At the end of the Revolution they're actually both still doing diplomatic things. When George Washington is president, John Adams becomes the first vice president, Thomas Jefferson is secretary of state. They work together. Then after Washington, at the end of Washington's presidency, they start having a falling out. Which actually, much of Washington's cabinet... Begins breaking up at the end of his second term for lots of political reasons. But not well probably the most significant one was there was a lot of fallout of kind of a federalism thought and then of Great Britain and France we're at war again and whose side are we going to be on? And Washington's like let's leave it all alone. Right? Farewell address don't get involved in foreign entanglements, there's a lot of conflict happening. And at this point John Adams and Jefferson both run for the presidency to be the second president. As they run to be second president, they are opponents but the way it worked back then and you guys probably remember this from history you didn't used to run as a president/vice presidential ticket, right? Early on, whoever got the most votes was president whoever had the second most votes with vice president. And so literally these are opponents who then become president and vice president which even though I know it's a terrible idea I kind of would like to have seen that happen in this last election, because can you imagine? Kamala Harris being the vice president, I would tune into that show every day. That would be so great, right? Now, Thomas Jefferson, way more competent, had a better heart for America. And so, he actually didn't try to bring friction to the dynamic of Adam's presidency. However, they're very disagreed. At the end of Adam's first term, when he runs for reelection, Jefferson again runs for president, Jefferson beats him. And at that point, their divide is so great, they never talk again for over a decade. So, one of the other Founding Fathers, his name is Benjamin Rush. He actually, I don't have time to tell the whole story, but he works this really tricky deal where he goes to both of them and is like, hey, you and, you know, our friend Jefferson, our friend Adams, y'all are too important to the cause. We can't let the relationship end like this, right? We gotta get you guys back together. In fact, I heard Adams tell me if you would send him a letter, he would totally write you one back. To Adams, he's like, you know, when I was just with Jefferson, he said he really wanted to be friends, but he wanted you to make the first move. If you'd write him a letter. Like it's really funny, but he works 'em back together. And so, when they start writing, they actually write a lot of letters at the end of their life back and forth to each other. And actually, at this point, it's also worth noting that they both kind of became grumpy old men. Now, maybe also in a little fairness, like Jefferson had a very hard life. His wife died. Most of his kids died. His faith was very uncertain as he's navigating what's going on. And so, he writes actually almost every critical thing Thomas Jefferson ever said about Bible doctrine or Christianity, he said in one of these letters to John Adams, John Adams would write back. And sometimes he's like, I don't think that's right. Sometimes he's, like, I agree with you on this point because those ministers are crazy. So, both of them have some letters at the end of their life that are critical. Now this is also worth noting. This is the end of their life. And at this point, this is what people point to and they're like, see, that's what they believed. And I would say, well. That's certainly what they wrote then, but if you back up and read earlier letters, they wrote very different things early on. And by the way, neither one of them denied the Bible. Neither one of them denied that there was a God or Jesus was real, etc. But they did have some questions about doctrine. Both of them weren't sure if Jesus was truly divine, if he's truly the son of God. So, there were some significant things we could get into about their faith and whether or not they're Christians. That's an honest conversation you can have. But the point is, even with their criticisms, they never came to the point where they said, you know what, we don't want the Bible, we don't God, we want Jesus in America. They were so very supportive of those ideas. They just had questions about doctrine or theology, which is a different conversation. 

Rick Green [00:19:05] Alright folks, one more break today, stay with us, you're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:20:16] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. We're gonna jump back in with Tim Barton speaking at the Pro Family Legislators Conference. 

Tim Barton [00:20:21] People point today and they're like yeah but you know Jefferson wrote a letter where he said that reading through the epistles, the Apostle Paul, is like searching through a dung hill trying to find a diamond. He was not a fan of the Apostle Paul, Thomas Jefferson. Okay? He thought that guy's crazy. He said that that's true however this was the end of his life. Nobody is like I just went to the nursing home you're not gonna believe what grandpa said. Yeah, when people get older, they just start saying stuff, right? In fairness, some of you know, like, there comes a point when you're like, my filter is broken and I'm just going to tell you what I think, right? Like I'm done with this, right. But again, part of why that matters is because there is some nuance even to understanding some of the dynamic of these guys. Now, with that being said, this is There's a letter from Jefferson, from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, 1813. It's one of the early letters when they're becoming friends again. And John Adams, in writing this letter, he is reflecting back. And John Adams says, look, I was at this college and there are all these kids around and I was watching and it kind of reminded me of us. When we got together, it was nearly 40 years prior to this, when they first got together. He said, it reminded me of when we got together and we were so divided on sentiments and we had all these ideas and we were trying to figure out where we could come together. And he talked about where for them they found common ground. And here's what he told Thomas Jefferson. He said the general principles on which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity. Now, I would encourage you read the whole letter. It is a long letter, several pages, but he actually goes on and says, what were the principles that united us? It wasn't the principles of the Anglicans or the Presbyterians. And he goes through all these lists. He said, no, it was the principles upon which we could all agree. And what were those principles? Those were the Principles of Christianity. So he literally lays this out in several paragraphs. But the reason again, it matters, is today, if we're talking about John Adams saying that what unified the Founding Fathers, they found common ground, and where they found common ground....the principles of Christianity, those principles coming out of the Bible. Well, this is something that for modern culture seems a little unusual, but this was something actually accepted as a very well-known fact in earlier generations. In fact, there's a really great book. Alice Baldwin was a professor at Duke University. She started the woman's program back in the 1930s, 40s and 50s. But in 1928, she wrote a book called the New England clergy and the American Revolution. You can find this book online. I would encourage you to, and they're reprinted this as well, I would encourage you, to get this and add it to your repertoire as well. She actually goes in this book to, well, let me back up. She starts off in this saying, there's a concern, this is 1920, she says there's a concern, because these modern professors, now this is like the progressive movement, they're taking over academia. And she's like, these modern professors are leaving out one of the most important parts of the story of America. And what was one of the most important parts, she says it's the influence of the pastors on the Founding Fathers. And actually, in this book, if you don't have time to read the whole book, that's fine. It's like 170-something pages, but the last five pages is a conclusion where she wraps up all these thoughts together. You can get this again. I'll find it online on Google Books. Just go to the conclusion, read the last 5 pages. In the last 5 pages, one of the things she lays out, she says, when you look at the Declaration of Independence, this is a quote, literal quote from her conclusion. And she says, there is not a single clause in the declaration, which had not been first preached in American pulpits prior to 1763. She actually goes on to explain that when the Founding Fathers came together, they did not come up with a single unique idea. Instead, they repeated all the things they'd been learning from their pastors for several decades leading up into that moment. And remember, my dad talked about in the First Great Awakening, part of what made awakenings different is they were preaching sermons that were so relevant to daily culture, what was going on. And this is what she points out is like, this is what happened. Now, here's what's also worth getting the book for, because at the end of the conclusion, she has appendixes. Guess what's in her appendix? The sermons, they have all the clauses from the declaration. She literally puts the receipts in it. And she's like, here's where this pastor, this sermon, this pastor. This like, it's incredible. But why does that matter? Because when most people today look at the Founding Fathers, we often think, well, those are really secular guys, right? These are guys that didn't really believe in faith or got mine out. My dad walked through some of this already. I just want to remind you of a few of these thoughts. And then there's a lot more direction we're going to go. The very first time the Founding Fathers came together. Right? September 6, 1774, the very first motion was to open with prayer. Now, remember, John Adams is the one who wrote Abigail about this. And John Adams says it was Thomas Cushing who made the very first motion. And when he made the motion, there were some debate because we weren't sure that we could all agree together. Then Sam Adams stood up and he said, he's no bigot. And as long as we choose a man who fears God and loves his nation, then that man can lead us in prayer. And he suggested the Reverend Jacob Duché. And, and, and actually September 6 was the first meeting. But this is when they have the discussion, the debate. So, they send for the Reverend Jacob Duché. He doesn't show up till the next morning. And the Records of Congress, and by the way, the guys who were there all kept journals, including John Adams. And the Records of Congress indicates that that opening prayer lasted for two hours. I don't know how spiritual you feel, but I would sure like to know before I showed up at a two-hour prayer meeting. 

Rick Green [00:26:19] All right, everybody, we're going to have to interrupt Tim for a second here. We'll be right back tomorrow with the middle part of the presentation. So, this is going to be a three-part series. So, Tim started us today. We'll get the middle of his presentation tomorrow and then the conclusion the next day. So, if you want to put all three of those together, you can do that at wallbuilders.show, but every day, even if you didn't hear the other two programs, it's just great information. You're still going to enjoy it and you should share it with your friends and family. Thanks so much for listening today to the WallBuilders Show.