Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to The WallBuilders Show. Check out wallbuilders.show and wallbuilder.com for our websites today. Rick Green with David Barton and Tim Barton. And we're gonna jump right into an interview I had the chance to do with Michelle Bachman. She's speaking to the Patriot Academy students. So, here's Michelle Bachmann. 

Rick Green [00:00:23] Thank you for coming back on. 

Michelle Bachmann [00:00:24] Thank you so much. It's a thrill to be back with you. 

Rick Green [00:00:27] You had said something on Flashpoint a few weeks back about the importance of Israel being able to govern that, in the Gaza area in order for people to be able to live free there. And we, you know, shouldn't have stopped them from finishing the job. That's been a few weeks. What is your assessment of the entire situation right now? 

Michelle Bachmann [00:00:48] Well, I think it's been proved to even more true now since that time. Israel now, they, they had about 80 plus percent of Gaza that they controlled when Jared Kushner told Israel that they had to stop, that they weren't allowed to finish the job and defeat Hamas. That was a, there was a tragic mistake in my opinion. However, they pulled back to about 53% of Gaza, that they control. Remember, this is land that God gave to the Jews. So, Gaza was originally theirs. They held Gaza. Israel freely gave up Gaza to the Arabs in exchange for peace. They didn't get peace for 10 seconds from the Arabs. They were shot in their bats as they left Gaza to give the land over to the Arab. So, for 20 years, the Arabs had Gaza as a Palestinian state if they wanted it. All they did is they built it up as a terrorist state. They built a subterranean terrorist camp underneath the ground. Literally they go down about eight or nine stories with tunnels, terror tunnels. And so now we saw what has happened. The Arabs tried to commit genocide against the Jews and the Jews have been trying to protect themselves and defend themselves. So here they are now. And so, President Trump has his 20-point plan. And ultimately the 20-point plan could end up in giving a Palestinian state to the Arabs, but the Arabs have made it clear, Hamas has made clear. They're not interested in a state; they're interested in killing every Jew in Israel and taking the land for themselves. So, there is no partner for peace. So, at this point, Israel has every right to take the land of Gaza back, which was originally theirs, and then at least try to create a secured perimeter. For Israel. So, they're in the process of doing that now. And so, we'll see what's going on. Israel said, no way, no how can Turkey come in and try and be the police in Gaza. No way, know how can Qatar come in. Qatar is the chief funder of terrorism in the world and Turkey is a headquarters for Hamas. So, this is very messy. And Israel has to be allowed. Israel is the one who has the most at stake. They have to be allowed since it's their land anyway. They have to be allowed to really dictate the terms. This shouldn't be up to some international body. Israel has, Israel knows what they need to protect themselves and they need to dictate the terms. 

Rick Green [00:03:16] You know, Michelle, you said that they want to destroy Israel and wipe it off the face of the planet. I mean, why would you believe that? They only say that every day and teach it in their classrooms to their children. I mean why would come to that conclusion? I don't understand. 

Michelle Bachmann [00:03:27] Well, exactly. And every day an Arab will get in their car and try and mow down Israelis with the car, or they'll stab them, or they'll shoot at them, or they will fire rockets at them literally every day. There isn't a moment when Israel isn't under attack. So, we're, we're in the process of a so-called ceasefire. There's no ceasefire. There hasn't been a day that's gone by than the so that the whole, that the so- called ceasefire was called for, that the Arabs haven't attacked Israel. So, what Israel has been doing is defending themselves. When you see them bombing a terrorist, it's because they were attacked by the terrorists first. So, Israel has a new strategy. Their strategy is, if we see the Arabs reconstituting themselves to attack us, we're gonna take them out. So, whether it's Iran or Hezbollah in Lebanon. Or Hamas in Syria or the Houthis in Yemen, no matter where the threat comes from or from the Syrians, they're gonna protect themselves. Because look what just happened in Sydney, Australia. Look, I mean, every day this last weekend, Jews were killed. In fact, it's very likely at Brown University, what we just saw was a terror attack. It very well could be. We don't know for sure. But there's evidence to point to that. Plus, there's a Jewish MIT professor that was just killed in his home. And so, there's every single day, there's been Jewish attacks and there were Jews on a subway yesterday in New York City that were assaulted because they were Jews. So, this is ongoing. And this is one thing I've learned about Islamic terrorism. If they are pushed back, they'll be quiet. Gee, shut. If they're pushed back and if they're neutralized, they're not going to advance. So, we need to recognize who they are, what their strategy is. In fact, I'm reading a paper right now at my desk. It's called the Muslim Brotherhood Strategic Entryism into the United States, a systematic analysis. It's everything I've known since I was on the intelligence committee when I sat in Congress. The Muslim Brother hood has a plan and that plan includes the United States and they're audacious enough to think they can take over the United State. And they believe that they can do it systematically, multigenerationally, here in the United States. They just worm their way in through nongovernmental means. And Minnesota is a textbook analysis how they worm way into these positions of authority and take over. And so, we need to, it's been a truism throughout all of history; when a mad man speaks, listen, because they tell you in advance what they're going to do. And certainly, the Muslim Brotherhood is doing that here in the United States, even in Texas. That's why your governor rightfully outlawed the Muslim brotherhood in Texas, every state governor should do what the governor of Texas has done. 

Rick Green [00:06:29] Yeah, I saw the DeSantis did the same in Florida. I think it's the first that DeSantis copied Abbott's homework instead of the other way around. But, but no, it's a, it’s a, a very good thing. And, you know, I was thinking Michelle for so long, we would talk about Israel constantly being under attack and that we don't know what it's like to have that just constant barrage all the time surrounded by it. Now the rest of the world is starting to find out what it is like, not quite, not anywhere near to their extent, but because of the migration, because we've invited these people into Western civilization, into these countries, Australia is obviously dealing with it all over Europe, they're dealing with it and now in the United States, we're dealing with it. Are you sensing a turn in terms of the willingness to call it what it is? It's not a religion. It's a political ideology masquerading as a religion and to actually stand up against it. Do you, I'm hearing more and more people, I guess, just be, be willing to stand against it? Do you sense the same thing? 

Michelle Bachmann [00:07:24] I absolutely do, and I thank God that the Trump administration is in. They haven't been perfect on this issue, but better by a mile than any of the other administrations. And I think now we're at the point where we recognize, as you said, this is a political ideology, masking itself as a religion. So, there is no First Amendment right for a political ideology that seeks revolution, the overthrow of our government. And so therefore we need to screen out and what we're seeing all across the West is that people who come from an Islamic background fail to assimilate and also fail to be able to integrate in into our nation in a way that's productive. So really, we as a nation, we have the right to decide who comes into our country or if anybody comes at all. So, we should be in my opinion and more people are reaching this conclusion, because of what we've seen, this is not compatible with Western democratic values. So, we need to say, no, we are not going to let people into our country. So, President Trump just announced that we are now allowing people in with visas from the Palestinian authority, from Syria. He named a number of Islamic countries. And Islam is not comparable with Western democracy. So, we just need to close the door. We need to close the door and then look at deportation. Because again, remember the best example is there was completely unvetted 85,000 Afghans who came in after president Biden's debacle at the Bagram air base in Afghanistan. And so, we have terrorists that have already killed Americans that have come in from those unvetted 85,00 Afghanis and president Trump said he's going to do the re-vetting and then deport that's what we have to do. That's why what president Trump did by closing our border was so valuable. That's why it's been so dangerous what president Biden did, he unlawfully had open borders. The United States has the power over its own borders. We don't have to let anybody in and we can pick and choose who we want to let in. The president has that authority. So, we should, we should do what president Coolidge did in the 1920s. Hit the pause button. He hit the pause, but for like 40 years. And very few people came into the United States because we needed to assimilate all the people who came in. I'm an advocate that we should hit the pause button now and we should focus on deporting people who are a threat to our safety and just stop with the importation of foreigners because we have too many. It's driving costs up and it's hurting our nation. 

Rick Green [00:10:07] Yeah, I'm really hoping we're actually sitting right now in Chip Roy's district. I'm hoping that his bill calling for the pause. Will... 

Michelle Bachmann [00:10:15] I agree with his bill; Chip Roy is right. 

Rick Green [00:10:18] Yeah, it would be very, very good. And it just makes sense. I mean, in fact, I was watching a clip last night of this Australian, member of parliament, this was before the attack at Bondi beach. And he's like an 80-year-old guy there that's I guess controversial to some people, but I felt like he was my spirit animal as he was, just rattling off the boxes that should be checked before they let people into Australia and it's the same boxes here. Are they going to contribute to society or be a drain on society? Will they assimilate? Do they love America or hate America? I mean, this should not be difficult to ask. 

Michelle Bachmann [00:10:48] No, you're exactly right, Rick, and that's current U.S. Law. It's current US law. It's just that our politicians haven't enforced current U S law. My own in-laws were immigrants from Switzerland and they had to prove that they wouldn't be a burden on society, that they would learn to speak the English language. They would learn the constitution. So, they had a pass a test on the constitution before they could become American citizens. They were very proud to be American citizens and they flew the American flag higher on their flagpole than the Swiss flag, but they were thrilled to become Americans. That law that my in-laws came in under in 1950 is the same law that stands today in the United States. Our feckless politicians haven't enforced the law. Now it's time to do that and I urge everybody to get behind Chip Roy’s legislation. 

Rick Green [00:11:46] In fact, you're the dean at the government school there at Regent the Dean of Patriot Academy is a guy named Krish Dunham came here from India He was just telling me the other day exactly what you just said which I didn't realize and he was like I had to I had to sign all of these things and most but most immigrants don't actually read everything that they're signing but they're literally saying that they won't speak out against America and you know, give ill will towards America and all these things. So yeah, you are exactly right It's on the books now if we just follow the law, we could solve that problem. Okay. So going forward, let me get back to our, our main topic going forward. What is the, you know, Western civilization is clearly under attack. We're in, we're in an epic battle here and somehow the conversation has come down to whether you're pro-Israel or anti-Israel, instead of are you for Western civilization and Israel is at the forefront of defending Western civilization. How do we reframe that and get back to the bigger picture so that it makes sense. Cause in my opinion, it is a make America first, you're being America first whenever you're defending our allies that are part of Western civilization being under attack. We can't just be completely isolationist. I threw a lot at you there, take it wherever you want to go, but I'm just kind of trying to think through how we reframe this and get back on target. 

Michelle Bachmann [00:13:01] The best way to be America first is to be pro-Israel, because for those of us who understand the Bible, we understand that God created Israel as His firstborn nation, because He chose Israel not because they were great, they were very small, but He chose them. So, we need to respect God's sovereign choice, and He chose the land where they live, so we need respect God's sovereign choice. Why did He choose them? To be a light to the nations. He gave them His glory. He gave the law. He gave them all of the standards that nations need to follow. So, Israel is far from perfect, but He gave them the standards to show all nations how to live. And so that's why if we follow what Israel is, what Israel stands for, the biblical standard for nations, then we're told clearly in Genesis 12:3, we as a nation will be blessed. And as we in America have recognized Israel's standard, we literally have been blessed above all nations. When we don't, then that's when the curses come on our nation too. So, we are America first by recognizing God's standard. That God gave us our way of life, our laws, our standard of living, because the Ten Commandments are the basis of our law. 

Rick Green [00:14:30] And being a republic! 

Michelle Bachmann [00:14:32] Yes, and being a republic! Exactly right. William Blackstone, the great jurist, said that all of law sits on the Ten commandments, given by God to Moses and then given by Moses to mankind. And all the nations. So, when we recognize it, that's our greatest happiness. And I believe from a from a foreign policy point of view, the greatest thing America could do is when Israel asks us for assistance, like we need weapons, we need all this, they pay for them. But we should supply what they need because we can. That's being a blessing. But we don't have to fight their wars. We can just simply help them. But we shouldn't be the ones to micromanage what Israel does. They need to make their own foreign policy. And then we support them in terms of what intelligence support, weaponry support. Again, they pay for it.  

Rick Green [00:15:27] And that's no different than we treat our other allies. I mean, that's the same we do with.... 

Michelle Bachmann [00:15:31] That's right. Because they're capable of running their own foreign policy. They're capable of running their own country. We don't need to go in and do any of it. They've never asked us to put an American soldier with boots on the ground. But the problem that America has done and the reason why we literally have blood in our hands, America, we have blood on our hands when it comes to Israel, because what we've done is try to tell Israel what to do and micromanage them. And so now, weirdly, we've actually turned toward Qatar, the chief funder of terrorism in the world, and it's like we're running Qatar's operation against Israel right now. I know that's bizarre. And I think it's a terribly dangerous foreign policy that we're embracing right now under the Trump administration. And I hope they turn away from this policy that will bring curses to us. That won't bring blessing. So, what we need to do is hear what Israel tells us because right now it's a fairly decent leadership in Israel. And so, we need just supply them what they're asking for. We can get out of the way, but just stop telling them what to do because under the Biden administration, they put handcuffs under Israel and they told Israel you're not allowed to win this war. This October 7th war that Hamas, the Arabs began against Israel. We literally told them; you can't win this war. You have to just sit there and take it and have the bombs come in. Unbelievable! That is what they were actually told by the secretary of state, Anthony Blinken under Joe Biden. And so, we need to get away from that posture. That is even happened in some respects under the Trump administration. Our best posture. Is we supply Israel what they need, get out of the way, and let them win the war. Why? Because God says, when it comes to Israel, I neither slumber nor sleep. It's my strong right arm that will win Israel's battles. And what we saw literally every week for the last two years was God's sovereign acts of blessing. He won the wars. He defeated all of Israel's enemies. It was supernatural the way that He defeated Israel's enemies. And so, when we just cooperate with what the Lord has, let Him bring the victory and Israel tells us what they need, we supply it, they're paying for it. We supply it. Then God will get the glory. He will get victory. He will defeat Israel's enemies. We've had a front row seat to watch this happen the last two years. So, we don't need this 20-point plan of President Trump's. I don't like this plan because point number 19, I believe, is that it sets the groundwork for dividing the land of Israel to give it to the Arabs. 85% of the Bible took place in Judea, Samaria. And so Jared Kushner's plan, that's what the 20-point plan is, is that it foresees that they would cut out Judea, Samaria and give it to the Arabs. Well, that's a suicidal plan because you'd have a terror state created in the heart of Israel. And their goal is clear. They've stated it over and over. They wanna kill every Jew in the world. Beginning with where the land of Israel is, they wanna kill them and take over their land. Read Psalms 83, that's the same plan in Psalms 83. So, the 20-point plan is a plan to destroy Israel. And then look at Joel 3, and read Joel 3 verses one through three, because this is the most significant Bible verse for any nation because it says that God has a command performance for all nations. He will call all nations to the valley of decision. And he will judge every nation throughout all of history on one criterion. And it's this, how did the nations treat Israel? And the sub-criterion is this, did the nation seek to divide the land of Israel? Did they seek to scatter the Jewish people away from Israel? Did they see to cheapen the Jewish way of life? If a nation did that, they will be judged. They will be called a goat nation. They won't be a sheep nation. So, this is a very severe judgment, and that's why the United States is, we're not exempt from this. If we seek to divide the land of Israel, we will be judged by God. And that's why I was shocked when I saw this 20-point plan, because it envisions a division of Israel. We will not be blessed as a nation. And, that's my concern. 

Rick Green [00:20:16] And I don't see how it makes geopolitical sense. I mean, any Arab that lives under Israeli government lives in freedom and free enterprise, gets to have a business, do what, you know, gets to participate in government, all of that. If they live outside of that, in Hamas territory, they live in complete tyranny. And why would they, it just doesn't make sense. One last question before we go for today. You keep referring to Israel, but they've only been there since 1948. I mean, it's only every day that there's an archeological discovery that they actually have been there for 6,000 years, right? I mean they’re; they're uncovering it and proving it over and over and over again, but there is this, this theory out there that this is a state of Israel that isn't the Israel of the Bible. How do you respond to that? 

Michelle Bachmann [00:21:01] Well, that's just yet one more lie. Two days ago, there was a pendant that was found up by the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and it's from 1,300 years ago. And it's something that a woman or a man wore around their neck, and it was a picture of a menorah. So, it shows that yes, this is the Jewish land. We shouldn't have to prove this. This is true historically, everybody knows it. This was a seventh front war Israel went through, but it's actually an eight-front war. The biggest enemy in this war is propaganda. And the biggest propaganda media organization is Al Jazeera. It's owned and funded by Qatar. Qatar, the nation, it's only a nation of 300,000 people, but they hate Israel. They want to kill every Jew. And so, their purpose is by creating Al Jazeera, it's a lie machine, that's what it is. Al Jazera is a lie factory. And they lie about Israel and they lie about the Arabs day and night and day and night. And so, on TikTok and all the social media, young people now hate Israel. Because they're influenced by Al Jazeera and they're influenced by the propaganda. Propaganda is lies designed to change the viewpoint of people. So young people are the targets. All of you are the target and it's been documented that Qatar has spent well over a hundred billion, billion with a B. They've spent well over 100 billion dollars in the last year with lies about Israel to say that they have no right to the land, that They're the reason they deserve to die. It's all lies. And so that's why we need to tell the truth. And when you tell the truth, the truth is what sets you free. 

Rick Green [00:22:46] Michelle, I think you'll love the fact that we're going to go with Flashpoint in April. So, we'll get to see it firsthand. It'll be my first time to go. I'm super excited. Michelle Bachman, God bless you. Thank you for joining us on WallBuilders today. 

Michelle Bachmann [00:22:59] God bless you. 

Rick Green [00:23:00] Stay with us folks, we'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

[00:24:09] Welcome back to the WallBuilders show. Thanks for staying with us. And thanks to Michelle Bachman for always being on WallBuilders, but also for speaking to the Patriot Institute students back here with David and Tim now, and of course guys, the Israel situation ongoing and continues to be a major point of, of debate in, you know, not just in the country, but now on the right, so really important to have somebody with Michelle's experience on that. 

Tim Barton [00:24:30] Well guys, I appreciate it too when she was referencing like the prophecy in that one day God's going to call nations and, and judge those nations. And I understand a lot of the debate going on right now inside of Christianity. In fact, we probably have listeners, who maybe have different perspectives than we do on some of the Bible idea. But here's what I would say big picture that I would encourage everybody's we're coming up on a new year. One of the challenges that we, would issue every year for everybody is read the Bible cover to cover this year. And I would say that one of the things that we would encourage, I would encourage is as you're reading the Bible cover to cover, don't just look maybe for it says in Israel, although pay attention to that. But as you read it and you don't just take a verse. And try to apply that verse maybe out of context to what's going on. Just read through the Bible and see what all is there. Maybe even see what may be part of God's heart is, because it certainly, guys, does seem like God's heart certainly is for the nation of Israel. You see it all throughout scripture, even though in some of modern Christian thoughts, and there is a different idea. But I would encourage coming up on the New Year. This is a great time as Michelle's referencing verses from the Bible. Make sure we take time to read the Bible cover to cover. 

David Barton [00:25:46] You know, and in doing that, I think there's a real important point that comes out Tim, because a lot of the people who are attacking Israel and who don't like Israel and they're Jews and they are not doing things that Christians are concerned about. So, God has set this up where they're not going to become Christians, and that's so that we, the Gentiles, can get the gospel. And then once that happens, He's going to go back and it's going to be a different outcome with them. So, they're not necessarily going to be on the same page spiritually and theologically, but that's by God's design so that we can have a chance to come in and participate in the covenant that He made with them. I encourage everybody to read Genesis 12:3 and look at Romans 11. It's really good on those points. 

Tim Barton [00:26:29] Well guys, we didn't have time to get into what she mentioned even about Qatar's funding. And instantly I was like, well, that's interesting. Tucker Carlson says he wants to go buy a house in Qatar. There's so much more we don't have to get in to. Maybe tomorrow we can cover some more of this. 

Rick Green [00:26:41] Well, thanks for listening, folks. You've been listening to The WallBuilders Show.