Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of Faith and Culture. Thanks for joining us on the WallBuilders show. The website is wallbuilders.show. If you want to catch up on any of our radio programs over the last few weeks and months. And then wallbuilders.com. That's our main website for everything else. And just because Christmas was last week doesn't mean you don't still want that really cool patriotic shirt or mug or book or whatever else it might be. And maybe some of those folks you forgot to get something for Christmas. Great time to go get it. Wallbuilders.com. I'm Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And I know, I know it's already past Christmas, but Merry Christmas, guys. Didn't we say we were gonna do that every day for the next 365 days? 

David Barton [00:00:45] Yeah, we're 360 something now? Yeah, well, yeah, we are down to, what is it? We're down to about 361 days till next Christmas. 

Rick Green [00:00:53] It'll be over before you know it. 

David Barton [00:00:55] Countdown clock's already going, man. 

Rick Green [00:00:58] Yeah, well, I know y'all had a good great Christmas and I'm so thankful for a few days with the family and just a chance to pause. I love what my pastor was saying yesterday about, you know, getting ready for the new year and just going into it with a Christ like hope. So, you, know, we want to bring a lot of that to our folks throughout the year and we're going to have a lot of great programming going into twenty-six folks. So, get ready for a wonderful, wonderful year. One of the kind of clean up on our four items for twenty- five. President Trump, once again, doing something that others were not willing to do has made a bold, bold move in helping those Nigerian Christians. That we've heard not a lot about from the major media, but we've heard a lot of about it in our circles, for years, the, not just persecution, but actual murder of Christians over there and President Trump, I guess just got fed up. 

David Barton [00:01:49] Yeah, and that has been an area that we've talked about. We've had some Good News Fridays on some of that stuff, but it's been a really kind of a messed up situation over there. We really believe in George Washington's recommendation that you don't get involved in foreign entanglements. And so we're not trying to clean up everybody's mess anywhere in the world, but at the same time, we have definitely gotten involved in a lot of foreign situations and made the world safer. What did we have last year? Was it eight? Eight wars that Trump brought to an end in one way or another So, you know, that's at least 16 foreign nations where we did something with and some of that was just simply exerting some pressure certainly we got involved in and ran with what went on there, but Nigeria had been a different thing because of the targeting of Christians and America has done such a good job of Helping protect people of faith, but particularly Christians and so it was an area that that he was willing to get involved in at least to some degree and it's resulted in some really good things that we'll be able to talk about.. 

Tim Barton [00:02:53] And Dad, I would, actually clarify that when you say America's done a really good job of helping protect Christians around the world, I would say, well, President Trump has, right? If you look at the last three presidents we had, President Obama didn't, President Biden didn't. But President Trump has definitely been very conscious and aware. But you know, guys, one of the things that came up, and I think it'd be a great question for Rudy, who will be joining us shortly, is how do you balance maybe some of the constitutionality of this. Are we justified getting involved in another nation because they're targeting Christians? I mean, not to downplay this because this is an important issue, but I think you could argue a little bit, right, constitutionally. Where do we have the authority to go defend people of other nations when the role of the government should protect the people of this nation. And obviously Jesus gave full disclosure to everybody coming into the faith that, hey, they persecuted me, they're going to persecute you too. So, it's not that this is totally unusual or unprecedented, in fact, some of the most significant times of Christian growth have been in some of most severe times of persecution. Not that as Christians we should be looking necessarily for persecution, although there are maybe some biblical arguments for some of that too, but it does make me wonder maybe what Rudy's perspective is on, on where is the balance of this constitutionally? And I say that knowing that Rudy is someone who loves God, who loves America, who loves the Constitution. And so, he will have a good explanation of why maybe this is or is not the right decision. And what all was involved, because certainly what we see is not all of the details but the news reports certainly is not all the details and knowing that he's still in a government capacity he might be limited in some of what he can tell us. But guys I am curious where the lines are that, Dad, as you mentioned George Washington’s advice was to avoid foreign entanglements but there have been times that we have gotten involved in help to other nations where do we draw that line and what's the balance and I am curious what Rudy's take is on some of this. In regards to the constitutionality of some of this. 

David Barton [00:05:11] And let me add something to it just to be real blunt. We're gonna get some terrific insight from Rudy and the terrific insight we're gonna get is really nowhere close to what it could be. And so, Rudy he's in charge right now. His portfolio is he's over 59 nations for counter-terrorism. He is the guy that knows the most about 59 nations. That is his job for President Trump is to watch what's going on and make decisions. About counter-terrorism thing and so that's top secret and he cannot tell us what he what he knows and so we're going to ask. Rick, I'm sure you're going ask really vague questions because we know that it's top-secret and he's not going to tell us stuff he can't tell us but I'm going to I'll guarantee you that what we get that's not top secret is going to be a whole lot more than what most of us knew and what we getting any kind of news reporting up to this point. And he will not cross that line as a military guy as a guy who has sworn an oath, but he knows so much more about what's going on than anybody else in the world at this point I think it's gonna be real insightful for all of us. 

Rick Green [00:06:19] He's the deputy senior of Counterterrorism at the National Security Council. Our friend Rudy Atallah will be with us when we come back on the break. You're listening to the WallBuilders show. 

Rick Green [00:07:32] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. So good to have Rudy Atallah back with us, our audience. Everybody got so used to having you on regularly, but you've been busy with the administration and so many good things happening. I know you face major international challenges every day. So, it's probably harder for you to be optimistic when you're mired in all of it. But we love the fact that we get to hear some good news, like even out of Nigeria, the fact we're coming to the aid of these Christians that have been persecuted for so long. And it's just great to have someone with your expertise just to just to help us get some perspective on everything so anyway we missed you brother but great to have you back 

Rudy Atallah [00:08:07] Oh, thank you so much. It's so good to be back. 

Rick Green [00:08:10] Well, what would you say, well, actually let's hit Nigeria. And then I'd love to just ask you about where you think the, you know, the hotspots to watch for in 2026, a little bit about just how you're enjoying the new job and. But let's start with, well let's start with that. Let's start with the personal, how are you enjoying the new gig? 

Rudy Atallah [00:08:27] Oh, I love it. I mean, we have the best president in the world. He's been amazing. Just, uh, what you see is what you get with him. And, uh. It's been a busy job.  We're trying to fix a lot of wrongs out there. I mean since, since I've been in, for the last, going on 12 months now we've, we've killed over 500 terrorists globally. We've taken out the number two, number three ISIS leaders. We are working on Al Qaeda. So, it's been it's been pretty busy, but we're getting work done. 

Rick Green [00:09:03] I have to ask you what it was, you know, the difference you see all the good work you were doing during the Biden administration outside of the administration, just, you, know, through the nonprofits and the missions and everything that you were doing. And I remember us talking about just the difficulty sometimes you couldn't exactly say it on the air, but sometimes it felt like the administration was working against you rather than with you and for you for the good guys around the world. How different is it over the last year to have a guy in office and a team that better, I guess the way to put it, has better moral clarity, that's the only way I know to explain it. 

Rudy Atallah [00:09:38] Oh yeah, I mean it's, it's literally night and day. It's amazing. I mean, when we got into the administration, the previous administration was sitting on the number three ISIS guy for a year and a half, just observing him. And just to walk into the oval and ask the President, what do you want it to do? And he said, why are you guys talking to me? Why don't you go out and take care of business? So, we just go out to take care business. So, I mean, it's literally a night and day difference. And our President is very focused on the American people, national security interests, and doing what's right for America, putting America first, what he says, he means. And it's like a breath of fresh air. We can at least roll up our sleeves and get work done. The previous administration, they handcuffed to anywhere you went, you're not allowed to say this, you're now allowed to do that. And, in fact, a lot of the money that US taxpayers were pumping through USAID was going into the wrong hands to include, in some cases, terrorist groups in the Sahel region of West Africa. 

Rick Green [00:10:49] Wow, man, wait, I got to back up. You said something that I think people are probably not surprised by, but might need to just make even more context. The fact that the president would say, hey, just go do what needs to be done. That comes from having a clear mission statement and mindset as an administration. Like, you know what he wants done. It's not like you're out there rogue. You're literally implementing the President's foreign policy. Is that a fair way to describe that? 

Rudy Atallah [00:11:20] Yeah, it's, yes, exactly. It's not only the President's policy, but it's been U.S. Policy in some cases for a long time. I mean, you know, when you have terrorist leaders around the world targeting Americans, targeting the United States, and we just sit there and observe them versus this President is go out and get them so they don't attack us anymore is a radical difference. 

Rick Green [00:11:46] Yeah, yeah, No, no doubt. No doubt. 

Rudy Atallah [00:11:48] So I know you wanted to, the recent strikes on Nigeria. I know everybody's curious about that. And so, I can kind of, you know, for the sake of time, I can dive into that a little bit. 

Rick Green [00:11:59] Yeah, please do. 

Rudy Atallah [00:12:00] So Nigeria is a little bit of a complicated animal. Most people don't understand it. Basically, you have a country of 237 million people approximately, one of the more densely populated countries in Africa. It's split 50-50. From the middle belt south is Christian predominantly and then from the middle-belt north is predominantly Muslim. The previous president of Nigeria, Buhari, was trying to win re-elections. And during that time period, he did something that we've seen the extreme left do to us, is he opened up the flood gates and brought in a lot of Muslims, specifically Fulani ethnic group from neighboring countries to flood his country in order to get those votes. And although he didn't get all the votes he needed and lost. Those guys came in and stayed and what happened is they turned to the violence that we've seen against Christians in the middle belt because primarily Fulani, I think Fulanis are herders and they always need grazing land to take over so what they did is they pushed in through the middle of Nigeria into the areas where you have primarily Christian farmers and they began to systematically attack them and kill them and so, that's where you had the clashes and the bulk of the killing was happening by this thuggery. Now a lot of these thugs are also, some of them are tangentially associated with ISIS in West Africa and some of the loosely affiliated with an offshoot of Al Qaeda but primarily ISIS and the famous Boko Haram that you probably once heard about. In the recent strike, what we did is, well, prior to the strike, the President put out a tweet saying, you know, he's sick and tired of seeing Christians slaughtered and it has to end. And his tweet, he said, over 16,000 Christians have been slaughtered to date and we need to stop it. So immediately the government of Nigeria sent their senior delegation, a senior delegation to include the National Security Advisor of Nigeria, whom I was able to meet. A guy named Ribidu. And so, the discussions you know, around that was focused on, hey, you guys need to own this problem. You've done absolutely nothing to protect the Christians. They said, well, Muslims are being attacked as well. We said, we understand that, but Christians, we need to stop to slaughter against Christians. So, they came back and they said, we own it, but we need, we need your help. And the help package, what we did is the recent strike, we launched from the sea. We sent an NQ-9, a drone, and with it we had guided munitions on it and we targeted a couple areas in the northwest area of Nigeria called a place called Boni Forest. It's in the Sokoto state. And we targeted a group of people that are Fulani thugs that kind of fall between thuggery and terrorism. They work with ISIS. And these guys, the leader of that is a guy named Bello who is really, really bad. This guy is a nasty individual. And so far, the battle damage assessment is, at least from what I'm hearing, is he was eliminated along with very senior members of his party. Haven't confirmed that yet, but at least the news media from that side of the world is saying that. His name is Bello Turgi. So, this has struck fear amongst the people, especially ISIS and some of these thugs. And it's allowed now the Nigerian government to go in and do mop up operations. And today they were in the middle of doing that. So at least it's putting people on notice that President Trump is not messing around. 

Rick Green [00:16:19] Yeah, it seems like, you know, for so long, we just almost feckless just used to be, you know, hey, if the Americans say they're going to do something, they do it. And in this case, you know coming to the aid of these Christians was huge. How long ago did you say the slaughter started? Like, how long has this been going on? 

Rudy Atallah [00:16:39] Oh, it's been going on for many, many years. You know, there's a, there is a, an organization online. People can look it up. It's called ACLED. They keep track of, uh, attacks and killings in, in Nigeria and the Sahel region as well. You can pull up data from it. Anybody can go online and look it up, um, and you can go back probably to 2019 and even before that. Where Christians have been attacked and slaughtered, but we've seen more of an uptick over the last three years. President Trump said enough is enough. It's happening in other parts of Africa. We have a group called ADF, which is another offshoot of ISIS in northern Congo in a DRC that's been attacking Christians. As they go up and They go into churches and they just basically massacre everybody that's in there praying or, you know, they go to Christian villages and massacre people. You have offshoots of ISIS in northern Mozambique and parts of Tanzania and Somalia. So, I mean, they're scattered everywhere and they've been emboldened over the last four years. They didn't think the United States was going to do anything and that's what happens. But now we're just kind of laying down the law and it's putting everybody on notice. 

Rick Green [00:18:04] Is the, and the guy that you said, we, we think was probably taken out. It would, would we think, is that like a warlord? Is that, I mean, he's just like a truck, you know, he has got his own. He's not, he, he is not with the government. He's just basically a, thug? 

Rudy Atallah [00:18:19] He's not with the government, yeah, he's basically, I would say, just kind of think of him as an evil John Gotti mixed with ISIS, like he basically bridges the two worlds. 

Rick Green [00:18:37] Okay, so I got while we got you and I know we only got a couple of minutes here Just zooming out internationally like what would what would you say? We need to be watching for in the next few weeks or months or even into 2026 as places to really keep our eye on 

Rudy Atallah [00:18:52] I'll keep an eye out on Iran, you know, the, that fight is not over yet. The regime has taken a licking, but you know it's, it keeps, it's still ticking there. So, Israel, Israel's watching it carefully. Also, Lebanon, Israel is doing, a, I would say maybe a phase three on Hezbollah. Hezbollah has to be weakened even more for the Lebanese armed forces to be able to breathe a little bit more and kind of diminish them. So, Israel is going to probably step up its efforts here in the new year. Keep an eye out on that. Syria, the new leader of Syria was in the Oval. Everybody saw that a couple months ago. There's a fight in there and we've been slowly removing ISIS leaders inside that country. And also, Iran is trying to make inroads back into Syria and then trying to push to help Hezbollah in Lebanon. So that area is gonna stay fairly volatile until things change. But we're very close to Israel and we're gonna help them every step of the way. So, I would watch that region carefully. East Africa, Sudan is festering still. A lot of problems there. If we don't resolve the problem between two leaders, a guy named Burhan and a guy name Hamati, it's a personality clash between those two. We're gonna see a lot more problems there because you have millions of people displaced, a lot of killings and you have bad actors like Iran and they're playing Hamas. They all take advantage of that type of space plus a whole bunch of other Gulf actors. Yemen is also a place, so remember Sudan and Yemen kind of straddle both sides of the Red Sea. That's a global choke point in an area called Bab al-Mandeb where 80% of the world's goods go by sea and they transition that choke point all the way up to the Suez Canal. So, it's really important to keep the safety and security in that region. Of course, you have Somalia in there with Shabab, another terror group that's another offshoot of Al-Qaeda. So, we're gonna stay focused in that area in order to make sure that that global choke point remains open and we don't start pushing insurance prices up and losing ships and stuff like that. 

Rick Green [00:21:30] And I, it's amazing to me how many pieces of the puzzle you have to keep an eye on and juggle. And so just thank God that you're there and glad we got a president that can handle that as well. There's just so much going on around the world and it's, you know, comforting to know we've got good people in place. So, Rudy, we appreciate you, brother. We're praying for you and your whole team and man, just look forward to getting you back for another update soon. Yes, sir. Amen. God bless. Thank you, brother. That's Rudy Atala. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton 

Rick Green [00:23:09] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show, back with David and Tim now. And of course, guys, great to catch up with Rudy. Look forward to getting him back more often. Of course, it's been a crazy, crazy year. We're so thankful he's in that position. And like you said, going into the interview, David, just, you know, one, one of the guys, maybe the most knowledgeable guy, especially about that region and what we're dealing with over there. So great to get his perspective and what he was able to share with us. 

Tim Barton [00:23:34] Guys, it was interesting to me and maybe y'all knew this. I had not heard that their government had actually been asking us for help in this because when the strikes happened, all I saw were news reports about how President Trump has targeted people in these nations and there's this outcry for what he's done. Well, I didn't know the outcry wasn't from their government officials. I made that connection from the news reports I saw until it was really was saying that I looked it up and sure enough, that literally their government was asking for help in the midst of this, and they wanted to take some credit too. They said, we provided some very important intel for the Americas to do this, but they were applauding and celebrating and appreciating America for these strikes. And you know, guys, maybe the algorithms on my X and my other social medias is influenced too much by tracking some of the CNN kind of accounts. To see what they're saying. Maybe that's infiltrated too much because literally what I was seeing was not anybody thinking President Trump, but rather the audacity that President Trump would do this because I had no idea. They were literally asking for help. And so, we were helping a nation deal with a terrorist problem. 

David Barton [00:24:46] And you know, there's something significant that Trump did legally before these attacks. And that was, at the request of Congress, at the requests of our own government leaders, he designated Nigeria an area of particular concern. And that is a level of designation that puts you right up against the possibility of military action. So, by legal authority, through request of congress, he was asked to, hey, let's do something here. If we need to get involved, we will. And so, he had done that, which was significant. I think the thing that stood out to me the most that surprised me was I did not realize that the previous president of Nigeria had opened the borders up and asked all these people to come in so he could get their votes and brought all these in with no plan for them, didn't care a whit about what they were gonna do to help the country. It was just to help him get elected. Wait, wait, David, David. We're talking about Nigeria, not the United States under the Biden administration. 

David Barton [00:25:42] Oh, you're right. I'm sorry. I thought we were ever thought we were back to the most recent election with my bad. Wow. No, but I thought the same thing, Rick, it is exactly the same as what we're seeing now, where the borders have been thrown open, come in, vote Democrat, help our people get elected. And then we're finding all the stuff that's going now with Somalians and, and, Minnesota elsewhere. And I thought this is so deja vu to what we've seen with America. And I had not heard that before. Rudy had so many good insights, and Tim, as you point out, we had a lot of questions, and I think it helped answer a lot of our questions on what was going on and what should be going on. 

Rick Green [00:26:22] Great having Rudy Atallah back with us. Tomorrow we're gonna get Michelle Bachman back we just had her like a week ago talking about some of those things in Minnesota gonna get her back on tomorrow we'll get it update on some of the things about Israel and there's some other great programs for you the rest of the week so folks don't miss a program and be sure and share it with your friends and family WallBuilders.show you can get those links and share with your friends and family. Thanks for listening to the WallBuilders show.