Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's the WallBuilder Show taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective, Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton, and as we begin our week kind of picking up where we left off last week, of course, the Charlie Kirk effect continues and man ministries are seeing just tremendous growth people, churches are full. People are wanting to get involved and taking action. I mean, it's just a, a really exciting time and certainly no time to sit back. It's time to press the gas and move forward. But later in the program, we got Andrew Womack with us, one of our friends that has an amazing ministry and of course, Keras Bible college, and, uh, they do a great government program there that David and Tim, you guys basically designed. And I've met so many graduates from that around the country that became constitution coaches for us or, you know, are doing other things in the culture and they really got it from having that third year at Charisgoing through the practical school of government. So really good stuff out there. 

Speaker 2 [00:01:04] Yeah, Andrew has been a, a great Bible teacher for a lot of years. Someone who,  I think we probably resonated with in a lot of levels, uh he is a kind of cowboy at heart in a lot of ways. So dad, I know that, a lot of, some of our, our favorite pastors have at times tended to be more of the cowboy pastors because cowboy pastors were so often just so practical and, and the gospel wasn't theoretical, like, no, here's what the Bible says. Here's how it applies. Here's what you do with it. And Andrew Womack was one of those guys who helped the Bible be so practical and guys, the reason we wanted to have him on the program is from, from his ministry, they put out an email. It was a response to what happened with the Charlie Kirk Memorial. Rick, you know, we talked with you and Kara when y'all were literally driving away from the Memorial, talked about your experience. And we had a lot of friends. A lot of friends who were at the Memorial. Dad, you and I watched the Memorial, largely it was happening while we were on a plane on a flight back from Boston and so on the plane four nearly four hours, I was watching the Memorial coming back. We've seen so many clips of it since, but the, the email that was put out by the ministry and he did some videos on it as well. His assessment was so great. And even more so, one of the things that was really encouraging for me when we were up in Washington, DC, the day that Charlie Kirk was murdered, we were in the middle of a pastor's briefing and when we got word that he was shot, that it was a congressman to come in and said, guys, I just, one my staffers just called me, Charlie Kirk was just shot until we prayed for Charlie right then. We didn't know the details yet. The congressman finished speaking. He left the next congressman came in. And, and there was kind of mixed reports that Charlie had, had died, that maybe there were still a pulse. And during the, the next congressman's talk, to the pastors challenging, encouraging the pastors, we got word that Charlie had, in fact, had, have had passed. And ultimately for him, that was great. He was in heaven. All of us were, especially at that time, trying to process. What does this mean? How do we navigate it? I'd been on social media, trying to figure out details and on social media, there were so many videos of what happened and some of them very graphic, from cell phones, from people that were there. And as, as I was trying to process some of this, I saw a video from Andrew where they were in the middle of a conference. Actually, I think Charlie was supposed to be with them just a day or two after he was murdered. He was going to be at that conference, but 

Rick Green [00:03:51] he was going to be keynote in their dinner. That's exactly right. I think it was the, yeah, two days later. 

Tim Barton [00:03:56] Well, so Andrew, as, as word has just come out that Charlie is, is dead. Charlie had been murdered. He did this video and in the midst of this weird emotional place. So a lot of us felt those weird emotions for a while, but it was this weird, emotional roller coaster uncertainty. And, and I watched his video and he was so calm and composing guys. We know exactly like this isn't to catch God by surprise. And we know where Charlie is and it hadn't changed the calling that God has for us in our life. And it was just, it was almost like you would think for a military general that, you know, we're like on the front line and we just got shot at and we're in the foxhole and we were like, oh my gosh, what do we do? And the general comes by. He's like, guys, this is no big deal. You're in a battle. Get up, get your gun, start shooting back, you know, like in this spiritual sense, engage in what's going on. Don't let it distract you from your calling. And he was just. Such a good voice of reason. And then again, what he put out from their ministry, giving an assessment of what he saw, what do you thinks it means in the culture and even reminding people that for him, he felt God was, was saying way before this, that, that we were already in the midst of an awakening, that God was doing something, something significant happened. Already, but then after Charlie's assassination, he said, I think we're really there now. And so we said, you know what? Let's, let's get Andrew on. Let's talk to him about this and get him to add some insight to what he saw and maybe a few additional details to what their ministry put out his response from the Charlie Kirk Memorial. 

Rick Green [00:05:34] Andrew Wommack will make our special guest stay with us, folks. We'll be right back on the WallBuilder show. 

Tim Barton [00:06:35]  Welcome back to the WallBuilder show. This is Tim Barton and I am joined by one of our heroes and good friends. Andrew Wommack, brother Andrew. Thanks for being with us today. 

Andrew Wommack [00:06:52] Always a blessing to be with you, Tim. You, you are awesome. Appreciate everything you're doing. 

Tim Barton [00:06:58] Well, we were talking about it, my dad and Rick and I, you have been such a, a good voice of clarity for a lot of Christians for so long. And when you put out, uh, your, your response to the Charlie Kirk Memorial, and I know this was a couple of weeks ago now, uh. But people are still talking about. And what we saw. Even the outgrowth of what happened at the Memorial, there's just so much, but you were there in person. Your response to some of what you heard from, not just the people we might expect that the Rob McCoys and the Frank Turex, but no government leaders proclaiming the name of Jesus and the post you put out was incredible. And so we just wanted to ask what, what exactly did you see? What was your take from it? Uh, and, and kind of, what do you think we're going to see America going from here? 

Andrew Wommack [00:07:53] Well, Tim, it was, it was a once in a lifetime type of a meeting. And you know, there was a lot of people there that did not know the Lord. I mean, it was obvious they didn't know the Lord. There was a lot of people there that if they knew the Lord, they were just barely saved. They weren't mature at all. And yet, uh, I think it was Trump. It might've been JD Vance. I'm not sure, but one of those politicians got up and said that people were expecting and instead they came to a revival service. And it was one of the greatest, uh, church services I've ever been to. And people that watched on Fox, you know, they saw the five or six hour program that was scheduled, but, uh the people started to rise. And I got there at four 30 in the morning and it was already tens of thousands of people there. And so we got in by seven or seven 30 and actually at eight o'clock. They started a praise service and they had Brandon Lake, Carrie Jobe, and all of these others. And I mean, they were not just performing. They were worshiping God for three hours before the service started. We had a praise service and I mean they were on their knees. They had tears dripping off their chin. And I mean, it was one of the most anointed services I've ever been in. These people. Uh, I actually heard two, uh, news people that said, what is this? I've never felt anything like this in my life. And my wife, she was at home and she was watching on Fox TV. And one of the, I think it was Molly, one of the presenters on Fox says, I can tell them what it is. It's the Holy Spirit. And I tell you, Tim, it was awesome. I mean, every single person glorified the Lord. And, to hear Hegseth and Tulsi Gabbard and Marco Rubio and, Ted Cruz. I mean, they gave the gospel. You could get born again. And there were thousands and thousands of people who said that they were responding and asking the Lord into their hearts. So it was, is one of the best services I've ever been in, in my life. It was awesome. 

Tim Barton [00:10:06] It is amazing. It really was the largest church service we've ever seen in our lifetime. I mean just incredible. And of course, when you include, the estimates of, more than a hundred million live streams and Rick Green and his wife are there in person, my dad and I were on a plane, so we're watching on our phone. I'm crying on the plane. It was a little embarrassing at times, but I mean, even over the phone, it was so obvious that God was moving. And one of the things that struck me, as you mentioned, there were noted worship leaders, Phil Wickham, Chris Tomlin, Brandon Lake, Carrie Jobe, Cody Carnes. These are big names in the Christian music community. And the fact that they had the courage to be there and what a lot of people were arguing was a political event. And of course, with the very thing they were doing, they were making it the opposite of a political effect. This was a worship service. It was their courage and boldness then followed up. By the courage and boldness of the political leaders to profess Jesus. This is something that, that I really wonder, we, saw this a lot in Charlie's life. We've seen it from a lot of the, the Trump team, a lot of his cabinet, a of the people that were there and spoke. I think we're seeing a new surge of boldness in the Christian community that we've not seen before. Did you 

Andrew Wommack [00:11:29] get a sense of that when you were there? Absolutely. And I, JD Vance, vice president, when he got up to speak, he said that in the back room, he was talking to people right before he came out. And he said, even though he loved Jesus with all of his heart and that the Lord was the most important part of his life, he had been bashful about speaking openly about him because he was in the political realm. And he says, but that's gone. He says, I have spoken more about Jesus in the last two weeks since Charlie was murdered than he had in his whole political career. And he said, that's the way it's going to be from now on. So I think JD Vance was reflecting what many, many people did. And Tim, I know that you deal with people all the time and it hasn't been popular, you know, a year ago, or let's say two years ago, for sure. I guarantee you people would not have got up. And have said what they said at that thing, because there was this oppression and there was an anti-Christ spirit in this nation. And it's been broken. And I mean, I could name two people, I won't call their names, but there was two of the political speakers who spoke that you could tell by the way that they were talking, that it wasn't a personal relationship with Jesus, but they were in a situation where everybody there was glorifying Jesus. People had been on their knees worshiping God. And even these people that didn't know the Lord were still talking about the Jesus that Charlie knew and talking about him. And I tell you, it was, it was to me an indication that there is a great awakening. And Tim, I know that you know this, you and your dad were on my program right after the Lord told me that there was, we were already in a great awakening and you said the Lord has showed it to you over a year before that. And so, you know that this isn't what's causing the great awakening, but this is a byproduct of this great awakening. What happened with Charlie? What's happening with Trump? And it's just a new day. There is an oppression over this nation that was broken. And it, you know, there's still going to be resistance. Matter of fact, you probably don't know this, Tim, but in July at our summer family Bible conference, I'm a teacher primarily. And I just get up and teach the Word of God. But I got up and I said, I'm doing something that is totally out of character. I said this isn't a teaching. This is a prophecy. And I took the scriptures from second Timothy chapter three, where in the last days, there'll be perilous times. And I said look, who's riding this? This was the apostle Paul who was being beaten and shipwrecked and put in prison, and yet he said in the last days it's going to be worse. And then I compared that with we're in a third great awakening, but I took what you and your dad said. That the first great awakening caused a revolution, the second great awakening caused the civil war. And it's yet to be seen what's going to happen. But I said, even though we're going to see great things happen, there is going to be pushback. The ungodly who's gained this ground are not going to go quietly. And I even said that there's going be martyrdom and that people are going to pay with their lives. And that was in July. And I think that what happened to Charlie is not just an isolated event. That the ungodly are not going to give up this territory that they've been given in the last few years and there's going to be resistance, but great things are happening at the same time. 

Tim Barton [00:14:58] And I agree. And would echo everything you said. One of the things backing up, you talked about like spiritual breakthroughs happening, what you saw at the Memorial. It's interesting that we've seen people posting online when Erika Kirk chose to forgive her husband's murderer. And there were people posting on line about how that gave them a courage and boldness. Something happens spiritually there where people that have been carrying bitterness and unforgiveness. Even. Tim Allen, that the actor, the comedian posted about all that, right? Forgiving the man that had the drunk driver that had killed his dad. And so to your point, I think there is a spiritual breakthrough happening, but because there's something spiritual happening, we know that we don't wrestle just against flesh and blood, that there are demonic forces. And I think we've even seen over the last month or two, some of the attacks we could look at that, that that literal physical attacks where people murdered among other things. And we could go, that's clearly demonic what happened until again, to echo what you're saying, it's no doubt that God is on the move. We would totally agree with you. And I remember being on a program for a week, two weeks, whatever it was, and we were going through some of the, the historic evidence we think that support why we would say we are in a great awakening. And of course the fact that, you know, you were saying God just gave you these, these visions. And I feel like, and you can correct me on this, that was it three prophecies that you had? Cause I think you had a teaching on that as well, which if people want to hear that, where, where do they go to find that? 

Andrew Wommack [00:16:36] Well, they can go to our website, AWMI.net. And we have a video that's entitled hope for the future. And it's about three prophetic words. The first one was March the 5th, 2001. And I was in a service that the presence of God was just so manifest and it was my niece, my great niece actually, that was putting it on and I was just thanking God that God, these young people are rising up and we're leaving the gospel in good hands. And as I was worshiping the Lord, the Lord says. Someday the people in this auditorium will be telling the youth of their generation, what it was like to be a part of the third great awakening. And that's not a terminology that I would use. I might say move of God, revival, outpouring of the spirit. And so I just knew that this was the Lord speaking to me. And I said, are you saying that we're going to have a great awakening? And the Lord said very clearly says, no, it's not coming. It's already begun. So that was in 2001. And then in 2023, I had a word that someday this wokeness where, you know, they were just pushing homosexuality, transgenderism and all of the terrible stuff and it was, it was like dominant and people, if they spoke against it, felt this oppression and rejection and stuff. And the Lord spoke and said within two years, by the 250th anniversary, woke is going to be dead. And I've already seen headlines that they say that that wokeness is dead. And then the third word was that the people who've been pushing this stuff down our throat are going to be removed. And that was back in 2023. And of course that's already happened and we're seeing a turnover. So I really do believe that we are in a great awakening. And, you know, I've heard you and your dad say that the people that are in the wake awakening. Don't realize it. It's usually in retrospect, 20 and 30 years later, but because of these words and because of the things that we're seeing, I think that we are in the midst of a great awakening. And Tim, if the Lord was to Terry another 50 years, I think people are going to look back. And this is a turning point in this nation. And I think it's so appropriate that Charlie's organization is called turning point because he's a big part of it and people are. This is a turning point in this nation. 

Tim Barton [00:19:02] And as you said, God has been on the move for a while, but what happened at Charlie Kirk's Memorial made it visible for the nation. 

Andrew Wommack [00:19:12] Absolutely. 

Tim Barton [00:19:13] And invited so much of the world into this move of God, what is happening. And brother, Andrew, one of the things that we have talked about that makes the awakenings different than, than oftentimes revivals. There's been a lot of noted revivals in American history. They weren't all awakenings. Part of what made the awakennings different was there was a lot of biblical discipleship that happened. So when people took the fire, the passion, the love of God in them, they were taught how to live biblically and apply the Bible to what they did. And that biblical application is what changed the nation and culture. And I'm saying that because one of the things we are so grateful for you and your ministry is how you have helped create disciples, show people. What does the Bible say? It's one of reasons that we love when we come up and spend time at Charis and get a connect with you. And, and, and so much of what you have done and built has been on this idea of helping make disciples, like the great commission said, and you have been a leader in that. And we are so grateful for, for your voice, your leadership and your encouragement. I remember. When, when we first got word that Charlie had been shot, we were in the middle of a pastor's briefing and it, it turned into a very emotional prayer meeting. We found out, that he had in fact died and we were navigating. And I remember seeing a video was a six minute video that, that you, I think you were in a middle of the conference, but you came out and said, Hey Christians, here's the way you ought to take this. And you've always been a voice of calm, of reason, encouragement and biblical truth in the midst of situations. And we are so grateful for you and your ministry. 

Andrew Wommack [00:20:46] Well, Tim, you know, you mentioned Erika forgiving the man who killed her husband. And I think when that, when she said that, that place erupted, I mean, it was,  it's in chills up your spine, but I think what happened is many people had heard this, that you're supposed to turn the other cheek, that your supposed to forgive those who offend you, but very, very few people have ever seen it modeled. And when Erika did that, I was sitting right in front of this screen that was a led screen, three stories tall, and her face filled that whole thing. And you could see the slightest little change in her eyes. And when she first spoke about it, you could see the hurt in her. And then when she spoke about this guy, you could see that hate or the anger. And then, when she says, but I forgive you, it just changed. And, people saw the word of God come alive. They saw it in the flesh. And I think that that's one of the things that many people have heard people talk about stuff, but they saw it modeled and this is going to embolden a lot of people. And it's just a part, Charlie has slain more people in his death than he ever did in his life, just like Samson. And, you know, he was scheduled to be at our facility the night after he was murdered. And so, we had a great service, just glorifying the Lord and talking about things and the next week he was scheduled to be in Fort Collins and he was expected to draw 1500 people and they asked me to come and lead a prayer. And so I did, and I was a part of a number group, but he was expected to drop 1500 people, 10,000 people showed up. Yeah, that's the difference. I, one of the dumbest things the devil ever did was kill Charlie Kirk. 

Tim Barton [00:22:42] Yeah. God is on the move. So for anybody that wants to know more,  Andrew will make Charis Bible college so much. What is the best website for them to find out more? 

Andrew Wommack [00:22:53] AWMI.net and that will connect with all of our different ministries. 

Tim Barton [00:22:59] Andrew, we love you so much. Thank you for being with us today. 

Andrew Wommack [00:23:02] Thank you, Tim. You are a blessing. Tell your dad hi for me. 

Tim Barton [00:23:05] You bet. We'll be right back in a moment with David Barton and Rick Green. 

Rick Green [00:24:10]  Welcome back to the WallBuilder show,man, guys, Andrew, of course, always has great perspective on stuff. I love the email even where he says, he says yes, all these, members of the, of the cabinet were shared the gospel and even some politicians that probably don't believe it, but they were saying some of these things. That's still a good thing because they're talking about the Lord. I was like, yes, that's that good cowboy logic. 

David Barton [00:24:38] And that's, that's what's so cool about Andrew. Anyway, he has so common sense and he cuts right to the chase. He analyzes things really easily because things are apparent and he, he calls the apparent things, the apparent things, and so he's so good at that. But also, I think the, the perspective he's got looking much further down the road, looking way ahead on what does this mean and where are we headed? I think there's some really positive things he brings out there. And we've talked. Previously about are we in a great awakening kind of thing and a great awakening is, is no quick fix. It is something that, you know, the first great awakening lasted from 1730 to 1770, but it got the culture turned around and the second great awakening is kind of from 1790, maybe to 1720, 25. It again turned the culture. So it's not a fast moving thing, but it starts shifting the way people think, shifting what they believe and what they think, what they'll accept and then won't accept. And I think that's such a good word for us to think about is, Hey, we may be in that third grade awakenings he talked about. And I don't know, maybe this is the fourth of fifth grade awakening. Who knows how they number them nowadays, but nonetheless, I think this is historic time. And I thank Andrew really put his finger on it really well in describing where we are. 

Rick Green [00:25:54] All right. Such good stuff. And Hey, if you want to learn more, go to Andrew Womack ministries international, that website is AW real easy to get to awmi.net. And of course he's got the gospel truth TV network that he launched last year. And, and then of course, Charis Bible college. So, check out all of those things and get some great resources there as well. I was blown away guys. First time I went out there and saw the operation itself. And of, of course I love how Andrew does everything first class. Just a beautiful, beautiful place out there. Charis Bible college is gorgeous and Colorado. So, for any of our listeners out there that weren't familiar with Andrew before today, definitely go check out all of those different resources. And then of course, at our website, wallbuilders.com get some good materials and make sure that you're sharing them with your friends and family and share this program with your friends and family. Thank you so much for listening today. You've been listening to the WallBuilders Show.