Rick Green [00:00:07] This is the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us today on the WallBuilder show. Taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And today we're talking about citizenship and Vanessa Four is going to be with us a little bit later in the program, but guys, of course, the two 50th coming up, this is the topic we should be talking about. So other people know what it means to even be a citizen in America. And we increase civics knowledge of those citizens that are already here, but then also having a high bar for those that want to come here and become citizens. 

Tim Barton [00:00:37] Well guys, it's always a good time to- I remember about civics and help civic education, but this week, actually right now, Dad, you and I are in Washington, D.C. Later today. You have some meetings, some with some government officials, one potentially pretty noted person in government politics. We might can talk more about that tomorrow once we see how the meetings unfold and what happens. I'm going to be this morning leading some pastors, some of our WallBuilders donors around. We're gonna go to Mount Vernon Arlington National Cemetery. We'll go tour some of the monuments and reconnect with some of that history, but the reason even some of this history matters is because when it comes to civics, one of the basic ideas of civics goes back to what the founding fathers identified as self-evident truths in the Declaration of Independence that that our rights come from God. And I feel like it's important to point this out because guys, last week, Democrat Senator Tim Kaine and one of his dumber moments. And that's saying a lot. All right, I can't say it's a dumbest thing he's ever said, and certainly I can say it a dumb thing that a congressman or senator has ever said because there are some really dumb things congressmen and senators have said over the years. One of my favorite moments, and this might be an entire different segment in and of itself, if we said, hey, what's your favorite dumb thing that a Congressman or Senator has said? I think,  Congressman Hank Johnson from Georgia, worrying about Guam tipping over because of a Marine, installation on the side of the island. I mean, there, there's been some really dumb things that congressmen and senators have said. But Tim Kaine in a Senate committee, when he was challenging somebody, that was there to testify, he said, you know, you referencing Marco Rubio, but you are acknowledging that our rights come from God. They don't come from government laws. And I think that's really dangerous. I don't think that that's a good place to be. And he goes on to give an explanation for a couple of minutes about why it's wrong. That this is why the history is so important in connecting to the civics. Because if we don't remember our history, remember why the founding fathers or even the early American settlers did what they did when they did the good things. If we lose sight of the idea that we separated to be in a place where we could enjoy our God-given rights, where we had a government that their primary purpose was to protect those God-giving rights. If we lose sight of that, if we lose the history, it's easy to lose some of that basic foundation for civics as well. And so this week we'll be doing a lot of that. We'll be recording radio from up here in Washington, DC for us. Rick, I know you're on the road as well too, which is just kind of standard for us, we record wherever we are. But this week It's certainly fun up in Washington DC, helping connect the dots between history and civics. 

Rick Green [00:03:28] Hey, David, I know, but before you get in there, I got to ask you guys now, is this the same Tim Kaine that said on the floor of the Senate that America invented slavery wasn't he the guy that said that as well? Like, what's the deal? Virginia is supposed to have all this great history. How do you get a U S senator that can be that ignorant about so many things? 

David Barton [00:03:45] Hey Rick, I'll stop you right there because it's not that Virginia is supposed to have all this great history. Virginia does have all of this great history. That's right. It's just that he doesn't know it. Yeah. And that goes to a point I think is really, really important. Uh, we have a discussion over the weekend on the two fifties and some things coming up and, and the national motto and what was the national motto for the founding fathers and what an E pluribus unum because that's what appears in the national seal. It doesn't say in God we trust. And so E plurbus unem. Eisenhower, after he got in the office, he did a whole bunch of religious liberty bills and one of them included making in God, we trust the national motto and also added it to the coins and, put under God in the pledge. And so he did several measures that, that helped us focus on what we knew was already the truth. And that was that God's the center of the nation. So it was just reaffirming the self-evident, but when you go back, how come the founding fathers didn't say in God we trust, how come they said something like eat pluribus unum out of many, you come what? By the way, how can many become one? And if you go to the Bible, Bible says two can't walk unless they're agreed. Many become one because they have things in common, they have common knowledge particularly. And if don't have common knowledges, you won't have have common beliefs. What is the thing that separates so many Christians by denominations? It's what they believe differently within the same set of scriptures. Everybody's got the same Bible, but we have different beliefs about that. And what is it that separates Democrats from Republicans? It's their beliefs. We've all got the same constitution. We interpret it differently based on how we're taught. And so what we really have, the thing that divides America right now is a bad education system versus a good education system. Some people actually study the founding documents and some people like Tim Kaine may have never been exposed to them. He took an oath as governor and a Senator to uphold the constitution of the United States. He may not have read it because He went through school at a time. When I went through a school, we were all told it's a living constitution. It is whatever the judges say that it is. It's not a fixed document. You don't have fixed documents. And so if you believe in an evolving constitution, evolving culture, that your elect leaders to guide the direction of the evolution of culture, you'll never have any kind of unity. And so this is where America is today. We got 350 million people thereabouts and we essentially have. 45,000 different worldviews. I mean, we're no longer unified around the same common things that we had, because even back at the beginning with the founding fathers, they at least unified on common basic ideas. They didn't agree with each other on everything, slavery being one of those things, but they did agree that there was a God, and that God is who made man, and that man has certain rights given him by God, the government's role is to protect those rights and etc. So we're really fighting the problem. The problem we find now is a lack of common knowledge. And that goes a lot back to our education systems. 

Tim Barton [00:06:41] I think you really hit it too, that common knowledge is something that's definitely been lost when the founding fathers said, we owe these truths to be self-evident. They found common ground to work together. We live in a culture today that I think largely based on worldview, we have a harder time finding the common ground. And I think part of that goes back to the founding father's acknowledge that without religion and morality, this nation would not succeed. The political foundation of the nation, it would not work because there has to be common ground and that common ground was found in religion and reality by and large historically, but again, I think kind of circling back, ultimately where we have missed so much is having a bad worldview. And our worldview certainly is shaped by the information we have, is shaped by the education we have. But you have people with a philosophical difference and part of how you have to learn to unite people is find the common ground again. And part of that is what that I think has to be a religious and moral foundation or that faith foundation. But certainly, even even going back, we all, regardless of where you stand on some theological or doctrinal position, if you were Christian, we all should agree, you know what, there should be some checks and balances. We we shouldn't have one person doing all these things. And even as we're looking at some of the stuff that President Trump is doing right now, it seems like this would be a really good time. When a lot of people are frustrated with President Trump and say, hey, let's review civics for a minute. Let's go back and see, is he allowed to do this? Is he not allowed to this? One of the things that is pretty purgant right now for a lot states and a lot the news is covering this is there's a lot state that are doing redistricting and we've talked about it. Texas has done redistricting and actually it's traditionally been on a 10 year basis but there's nothing in law that says it has to be 10 years in Texas. It says that the way redistricting is done is done through a legal legislative process. And it doesn't say how often or how frequent or how long you have to wait. So Texas actually followed the law to do redistricting. But you look at somewhere like California and California is trying to suspend their laws to do a redistricting, literally violating their laws, violating their commission to do this. And again, part of why even the civic education matters is this to me is where it should be something that we can go back and try to maybe find some common ground and say, look, we might not like or disagree with something somebody does, but we ought to be able to say that certain things are right, certain things you're wrong. And part of even how that happens is the process. There should be checks and balances. We don't want one person to be able to at their own whim suspend laws and do things. Now, I think a lot of Democrats would say, that's right, that's what we're against President Trump for. And we might point and say, that's Gavin Newsom is doing right now, but there should be common ground that just cause you're the president, just cause your the governor, you shouldn't be able suspend laws. And part that goes back to knowing, civics education, how constitutions work, how government works, how checks and balances work, how elections work. And frankly, most Americans just don't have very much understanding of most of that process.

David Barton [00:09:52] And so, you know, so many of us have been raised here and, and we have opportunities for knowledge, but there's so many people that are immigrating to America, we have tens, 20, 30, 40, 50 million in the last several decades. And they too, if there's going to be any sense of opportunity for unity, they have to know what America is about and what America stands for. And so it's really important that a focus is placed on those that are coming in as, you now, hopefully going to to be citizens, a lot came here A lot are coming here legally. But you have no hope of unity if there's not some common base of knowledge. And the good news is that there are some folks out there who are actually focused on making sure that immigrants do know the Constitution, do know our history, and do know all the things that's needed to be a good citizen. And that's a really healthy thing for America. 

Rick Green [00:10:40] Yeah, Vanessa for is going to be with us when we come back from the break. She's from the foundation for the restoration of America. And this is just a really good direction to go and teaching these really good civics lessons and, and, uh, we'll be talking to her for a few minutes and we'll back with David and Tim Barton. So stay with us folks. You're listening to the WallBuilder show. 

Rick Green [00:12:01] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us from the Foundation for the Restoration of America. Vanessa Faura is with us. Thank you for coming on, Vanessa. 

Vanessa Faura [00:12:10] You're welcome, Rick. Happy to be here. 

Rick Green [00:12:13] Well, I love the fact that you guys are working on citizenship tests and getting people to understand what made America great in the first place. We love constitutional education and especially for those that are coming here. We want them to know what they're coming here for. So anyway, thanks for what y'all do. 

Vanessa Faura [00:12:28] I'm excited, I'm exited that we're going to talk about this very important topic. 

Rick Green [00:12:34] Yeah, so what, tell me who, so you guys, do you do the citizenship test for people that are already citizens here in the United States or only for helping people that are getting their citizenship? Tell me a little bit more about what you guys do. 

Vanessa Faura [00:12:47] Yeah, so we have a national citizenship education program that's designed for lawful permanent residents. These are legal immigrants in the country, law-abiding residents that are on their way to citizenship. So this program prepares them for the naturalization civics test. And what's important here to note is that throughout the program, the curriculum pretty much emphasizes the founding principles. So we discuss anything from, you know, we start off with the U.S. Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and basically the core values of responsible citizenship. 

Rick Green [00:13:30] That's great so so that how do you reach people like how do you find people to get them to go through the courses and get them to study. 

Vanessa Faura [00:13:37] Sure, so across the country, we have lawful permanent residence, legal immigrants already. And I know this is a growing population and also a population that has gotten unnoticed. For far too long, we've been so much embedded in, especially with mainstream media focused on illegal immigration. And every time the word immigration or immigrant comes up, we automatically assume we're, referring to illegal immigrants and this is not the case. We have lawful permanent residents, again people that came into the country legally, they went through the legal process just like my family and I did and actually it was a very daunting process that took seven years for us to be able to come into the county legally. Well like we did come to the country legally as a permanent lawful resident, we have millions across the country that are ready to naturalize and obviously eligible. So we are going into those states to recruit these folks so that we can better prepare them for the civics test. One of the things also here to highlight is that the majority of the lawful permanent residents in the country eligible for naturalization finds the civic's portion of the test to be the most daunting out of the entire process. So this is where we come in with this citizenship education program to help them. You know, get comfortable with the test, but mainly our goal is to instill in them a sense of identity, belonging, by educating them on our founding principles, which is key to all of this. 

Rick Green [00:15:20] Oh, that's fantastic. Now that, you know, I remember having a conversation with a friend of mine that runs one of our programs in the, in the Northeast just a few years ago, talking about the importance of making sure that we're not just teaching the principles of the declaration of the constitution to, you know, people that were born here, grew up here in five generations here. But all of the new people that come here, that they really get a foundation in, in what makes America so great in the first place so that they can be good citizens. And of course, if they're taking the citizenship test, you know, they're gonna get some dose of that, but it looks to me like you guys are going a lot deeper than that and really getting them prepared to be good citizens. 

Vanessa Faura [00:15:58] Absolutely. It's so important, especially because we have over 13 million lawful permanent residents in the country, which majority of them are qualified for naturalization right now. And they go in thinking, you know, there's a questions bank. It is like 100 questions that they have to memorize and also memorize the answers to those questions when they go through the interview process, they have to answer. They get asked ten questions and they have to have six correct in order to pass the civics portion of the test and You know, this is not about memorization. We're trying to make sure that they're understanding You know not just the US Constitution But basically everything that made America the greatest nation on earth and our theme It's basically from the very beginning of the curriculum. It's it brings up the question of what makes us Americans And once they start digging into their own stories and understanding and kind of speaking to what made them coming to the United States to begin with, right? Cause they're coming because they want freedom, they want opportunity, they want prosperity, but no one ever tells them how do we have those privileges, those, you know, those things to begin with? So the focus of the program is for them to have a good understanding of what our founding principles are and how we became the greatest nation on earth to begin with so that they can start feeling a sense of belonging and become engaged citizens. 

Rick Green [00:17:42] Yeah, amen. That's that is the key for sure. Well, good. It's a great program. We want to encourage people to check it out. And I guess the scholarship program is that year round. You do that at a particular time of the year because you guys have given away a ton of scholarships as well for people that they take the courses and study these things. 

Vanessa Faura [00:18:01] Yeah, so the scholarships program, it's the constitutional scholarship. It's mainly for students in the country, for all Americans, and basically we also provide a, we have a partnership with Hillsdale College that, where these students have to take a 12-hour course so that they can later, you know, report on what their experience was now that they have a better understanding of those very same founding principles that we're teaching immigrants in the country legally. So once they do that, we'll, you know, depending on their reporting, we are providing those scholarships. So we don't really look at GPAs or extracurricular activities. We just want to make sure that they have a good understanding of our Constitution and those founding principles. 

Rick Green [00:18:51] Good very good well thank you for what you're doing and of course the website that you guys have a lot of different projects going but specifically foundation for the restoration of America on the citizenship and the constitution scholarship people can go to it ffroa.com ffroa.com that the best website to give out?

Vanessa Faura [00:19:13] Yes, it is. 

Rick Green [00:19:14] All right, Vanessa, God bless you. Y'all keep up the great work. Thanks for coming on WallBuilders. 

Vanessa Faura [00:19:18] Thank you for inviting me. 

Rick Green [00:19:20] Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:20:29] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Vanessa and all the good work they're doing at Foundation for the Restoration of America. David and Tim, we're headed the right direction. 

David Barton [00:20:38] I think so. Now here's, here's what I'm going to go through. Cause you heard what she said. We, we want people to know the constitution. We want them to understand the law and how the law works. We want him to understand that the country and man, I want that for all of our kids in school. I want there for all our us senators like Tim Cain, who don't apparently have a clue about how, what, what the constitution and declaration says. And what she pointed out is so important. They, they start with a hundred questions. If you come in as an immigrant and you say, I want to be a legal citizen. It's going to take you by the constitution, a minimum of five years. You can't do it in less than five years, but there is an immigration test and the immigration test is a hundred questions. They will choose 10 questions out of the hundred. So you got to know all hundred and you got a pass at least six. And so when you look at that and that, that whole test can be done in three to six months, there's courses offered to do that, but it's still going to make you five years for everything the constitution requires. You have to be here for a while. You have get acclimated to the country, understand how it works. Sure. You learn and you pass the test, but you got to see how it works in reality. And so all of that is really, really healthy for them to have. But here's the deal right now, currently. And by the way, I will point out to that, uh, president Trump just a few months ago said, Hey, we're going to make the immigration test a lot harder. It's not hard enough. And so they're looking at changing the way that's done and probably more than 10 questions may have to pass more than the six, but nonetheless, they're, they're doing some things in the immigration tests, but currently right now. 91% of immigrants pass the immigration test on their first attempt, which means they've gone through the hundred questions that were 10 randomly pulled and they got six out of the 10, but they had to know the hundred. So that's 91%. Well, let's back up because starting back probably 12 or 13 years ago when Joe Foss is still alive, he's a world war two ACE, uh, he was the governor of South Dakota, but he started a civics project that said, Hey, the kids who graduate from our public schools after 12 years. Uh, they ought to know as much as an immigrant coming in. And so he got Arizona. I think Arizona is the first state to say, we're going to use the immigration test for our high school exit exam. And so I think now it's either 12 or 13 states have gone to the immigration test for the high school exit exam and so when you look at that right now, only between three and 4% of high school students can pass the immigration test. So think about that. You've been in school for 12 years in America. Three to 4% can pass what immigrants can pass after a three month course when they've been here, 91% of them pass it. So this is where we need a whole lot more common knowledge, but at this point it looks like our citizens like Tim Kaine and others that Tim pointed out don't have the common knowledge that we're at least teaching to, or at least that they're teaching with this group that's coming in and good for them for trying to teach the basics and having passed the immigration test, but everybody needs to know those basics. You know, maybe that's a challenge for all of us to go online and you can read the immigration test that they have the questions from previous years. Maybe all of this ought to be able to know that and pass that. And that's, a good thing for all us, but that's one way to get unity in the nation is to have a common base of knowledge that immigration test is a great starting place. Well, guys, one of the things that we have seen 

Tim Barton [00:23:56] uh, to be true in some of our own experience. Now this is anecdotal, but I think it's probably correct. Statistically, we've seen some, some data on this, uh, but certainly those that we've encountered, the legal immigrants, it's interesting. Not only do they have a better understanding of America having gone through this immigration process and most high school students do, but it's also interesting to have a greater love for America. And so dad, you know, as we're talking about or wanting to help. Get a better educational base because then we have some common ground we can unite around. It's also interesting that in the midst of the legal immigrants that have gone through the process of wanting to be here, they have a deeper appreciation for America too, and maybe that's because they have their lived experience wherever they're leaving and whether it's a communist, socialist nation, whatever that might look like. But I think it's certainly something that we have to recover as you're porting out. For what we do in America, we have to regain some of the civic education. We have to do it for our students, not just for the immigration process, because there's a lot we could have in a conversation about maybe immigration reform and what that should look like. And there's a lot of conservatives now saying, we need to slow down how many immigrants are coming. There's Democrats saying, if we don't allow illegal immigration, you know, who's going to work to harvest our fruit and work our fields and our farms? And it just... It actually sounds kind of racist coming from Democrats saying that, but not that I grassed down that road. It's in whatever conversation we have about immigration, I would say that if we don't help fix the educational system for our rising generation, if they don't learn the process and then learn to love this nation, then we definitely have a lot of challenges ahead of us. But this is such a great opportunity with a 250th coming up. I really think in the midst of You know, there are being some crazy people that might be anti-America. I think the majority of Americans are ready to celebrate America with their imperfections. Not to ignore those, but to celebrate America. I think it's not dissimilar, Rick, you'll appreciate this. The crazy lady of the Phillies game, who went and took the home run ball away from that poor kid, right? And I think that's the crazy liberal people, like we're tired of those kinds of people, right. We wanna be able to enjoy each other, their fellowship to have fun and find some common ground. And certainly that's part of what the civic education can help do. Yeah, man. 

Rick Green [00:26:15] Really exciting guys have a great time in DC so looking forward to all the things that are going to come out of those meetings and and all the other effort towards the 250th civics is back guys for American citizens that have been here for five six seven generations and for those people that have be here you know that are first generation or that are coming now it's just so exciting to see this love of patriotism and America coming back and getting people to actually study the constitution and the declaration. Thanks so much for listening today folks you've been listening to The WallBuilders Show.