Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture is the WallBuilder show. Taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. You can learn more at our websites, wallbuilders.comChris wallbuilder.show .show for the radio program Chris for everything else. Wallbuilders.com and wallbuilders.show just imagine being able to equip and prepare the next generation to be like the Navy seals of civics, literally the tip of the spear. The ones that can go out there and lead in every area of the culture with a good, strong biblical foundation and the communication skills, the apologetics, everything they need to be an influencer in every one of those areas. Krish Dhanam is with us. He's the Dean of the Patriot Institute, been a great friend of WallBuilders and Patriot Academy for years and years and,  we teamed up last year to start this Patriot institute. Krish, thanks for coming on and sharing with us today. 

Krish Dhanam [00:00:58] A joy to be with you guys, can't wait to see what the good Lord unfolds. 

Rick Green [00:01:03] Well, we got to experience the first Institute graduation this summer and hear from those young people and how their lives have been changed. Not a dry eye in the room. That was really, really special. And, we're about to head into a new season of it. So we thought we'd talk a little bit about what we're doing at the Patriot Academy campus, what the Institute's all about. Um, of course we've been doing, you know, Patriot Academy for 25 years. David and Cheryl helped us start that all those years ago. And we always had them for one week at a time. And we kept saying, Oh, if we had them longer than a week. And now we finally get to do that a year at a time. And of course, Tim, you have been working with youth for a long time. And you've been a big part of, uh, Tim Brooks is leaders Academy and high point up in Arkansas. So, you know, how important it is to have that time with them where you can really go a little deeper than we've been able to do in the past with just one week, but actually get them grounded in worldview. 

Tim Barton [00:01:53] There's no doubt about it. It's one of the most impactful things for young people to have. I'm going to say it, I know that's like a triggering phrase because it's the way culture is done, but like a safe space. It used to be Christians thought, hey, if I send my kids to youth group, that's a safe place for them to go to not be indoctrinated. If I send my kids through a Christian university, there were things that used to be safe for parents. And unfortunately, what we've seen is that for so many parents, that are trying to help their kids navigate the next step of their life. When the thought was always, let's send them to college and college will prepare them for ultimately whatever God is calling and leading them to do. And we've seen that unfortunately, even at Christian universities, they've just gotten so off course of what the focus is, and of course, now there's people like Charlie Kirk that are pointing out that so much of college is a scam, which we completely agree with a lot of that sentiment, unless you're going uh, to, to study something that it makes sense. You get a degree for, if you're going to be an engineer, if you're gonna be a doctor, if you're to be a lawyer, some things that makes complete sense, go get a degree because you need to make sure if you are building a bridge, do the math correctly. Like let's, let's make sure that bridge holds. But there are certain things that a lot of degrees that don't make sense for students that make the universities a lot of money and universities have become a business and it doesn't always help prepare students for what God has called gifted or equip them to do in their own abilities and so parents have discovered that there's a lot of better options and opportunities out there and something that you guys have been doing for years that of course at WallBuilders as we've partnered with you very joyfully, gladly, gratefully over the years, as you mentioned the equipping for young people and first of all biblical foundation, biblical worldview, things that would be similar, obviously different because it's of the Patriot Academy kind of spin and flavor to it, but things like going to. Maybe a one-year internship with Summit, or focus on the family, or some of these really great organizations where they do a lot of basic biblical training and framework, but then for what happens on the Patriot Academy campus. And I, Krish, I don't want to take anything away from where you might go, but so many incredible opportunities to serve on a much larger level, as they get to go around and do things in various states, helping, with whether it's big events whether it's, different significance, ministries or callings. And then of course, on the Patriot Academy campus, getting to be mentored by somebody like Krish, by Rick where there'll be other speakers. My dad and I might come in periodically and,do things as well. This is a safe space for parents that are thinking, man, I'm not sure that my kids finishing school are ready for maybe their career, right? Kind of the big picture calling. But we'd still love them to go to a place where they can get some, some basic foundational training, whether that be in civics, whether that be an American history or kind of biblical foundation, biblical worldview, be around really good people that love God, that love America, that loves and serve people with the right kind of foundation that there's not many places that we would recommend for parents that are looking for kind of that gap year program, whether their kids are going to college or not with trade school or just jump into a career. This is a really good opportunity and program. And Krish, I know that you have, have worked in developing this program, you've told me many times, some of the things that you guys have been able to do that were new things, especially kind of from what had already been done at Patriot Academy. But even Krish, you had, had mentioned you've done some, some new series and new lectures to kind of train foundational things for them and so we're really excited, Rick, that you're doing this. And I think as we're doing, this program, I think there's still a couple of spots left. If parents have a young person that they would like maybe to have an opportunity to come be mentored and trained to spend a year in a really solid, again, like safe space safe. I know again, as a trigger word and as a little relative, because you come here, you're probably going to learn how to shoot a gun because you have constitutional offense, right? So it's, it's a different kind of safe space, um, then what, you know, some people might think, but as far as a biblical moral foundation, this is a different place than where. Most other opportunities that lie out there. And it's something, again, that we highly recommend. And Krish, I would love to toss to you, let you talk a little about this because you've really developed so much of this program and so many things from thought exercises and experiments where you're challenging students to grow, not just maybe in a biblical or moral foundation, although you certainly do that, but even learning to be critical thinkers. On a higher level which of course is going to help them whatever arena and field they get into learning to be thinkers. What all have you done in helping develop this program and curriculum and if if parents are sending students what can they expect their students their kids to receive if they come? 

Krish Dhanam [00:06:50] Well, Tim, you had mentioned something early on when you were opening and talked about the gap here, but I want to expand on that as to the kind of person that we're looking for that fills. Usually at the age of 18, 19, whatever these kids' ages are, they have one of three choices. Do I go to college? I don't want to go to College or do I put off going to college. My promise to the parents is send them to us for a period of time for that year and we'll give you back a better kid. So whatever they choose, you'll be proud of. So that's a guarantee. The second component is what we offer. The word university is where a lot of the derivative comes from, but university was meant to be unity and diversity. And you alluded to that, that it's become a scam now when people go there and even the secular and the sacred lines have been crossed and people don't have that so-called safe space. But what we want to do is, as Rick pointed out, if these are going to be the Navy SEALs of civics, I want to make sure these kids are so equipped and provide the master's level education. So if they decide to go back into the academy, they're not going to be indoctrinated. They will indoctrinate the professors. I want them to be smarter than the professors. So some of the worldview training that we gave or the early church history, I'm actually breaking it down into segments of saying, okay, 80, 50 to 80, 100. What happened? And who were the key influencers? Before the Council of Nicaea. So these kids have grown up in evangelical homes, but I dissect church history to the point where they are now overwhelmed by the fact of how much they did not know or how much more there is to know besides Jesus loves me, this I know for the Bible tells me. So we want them to be equipped and then the Socratic method of debating, making sure that they are able to unpack everything. One of the key tenets of the learning that we provided was I introduced them to they would always turn away from. This comes from Boram. F.W. Boram once said that if you want the world to be a wide and wonderful place, you need to shun the books you would do everything to read and read the books that you would shun. That's how you know what the other side is up to. So we take them to exercises and not more than 72 hours goes by between a lecture and them having to regurgitate in practice in class again. So if I'm doing the Reformation just as an example, I might introduce them to Martin Luther, but I might introduced them to Philip Melanchthon, who they've never heard of, and say, go study him and come and do an assignment on it. So it's baptism by fire. And to a T, all of them said they grew up very quickly because 95% of what they avoided, they now started to embrace, not for the sake that it would either convince them or convict them, but they needed to know what they were debating against. 

Rick Green [00:09:39] Yeah, so much of that, you know, I remember David, you telling me 20 years ago, trying to get me to send my kids to, to Brookhill and, and, to high point and, and how great Tim Brooks was and all the guys up there. I was like, I don't know if I want to send my kids off up there and anyway, you were like, man, all three of my kids grew up there, trust me, you need these good people to send them to. And we finally did at all four of our kids, of course grew up up there as well and went through high point. And then three of the four did leaders Academy for a whole year. And one of the things that stood out to me. Was that they would come home and say, Dad, did you know? And then they'd repeat something I'd said a hundred times. But they heard it from someone else that came in with authority and with the foundation. And so they came home more convicted, stronger, a better foundation. And it had such an impact on us. So we, I think Tim, you alluded to this earlier. There's Summit, there's Leaders Academy. There's all these one-year programs now developing. Leaders is 40 years old. It was really an originator of this and we've got, we've sent so many kids there and, and, and still sending kids there. I think this is the wave, David. I think, this is, this, is the new way for, parents to be able to, like Tim's saying, have a place they can trust is going to equip their kid. Um, and for the young people to be. To find like-minded folks, but in an environment where they're going to be challenged and sharpened. And, and so we're, I just think we're on the tip of the spear. We're at the tip. Of the best way to educate and equip leaders of tomorrow. What do you think? Okay, Rick, I'm gonna answer your question by asking the question. 

David Barton [00:11:06] And this is something I've been thinking about for the past year or two and trying to figure out exactly where we fit in what God's doing and what God is doing and trying to know exactly the times and where we need to be. Um, and so with that framework, I go back and say, okay, in American history, have we had, have, we had. Let's say revivals, start naming revivals. You can think of an American history. What do you got? Well, the 

Rick Green [00:11:33] Great awakenings, the first and second great awakenings. Azusa Street. Yeah, Azusa street. We're both thinking the same thing there. The Pizzicola. 

Tim Barton [00:11:43] The return of the century revivals yeah there's been a lot of movements because even like Billy Graham kind of era that that's after the tent revival kind of stuff but obviously there's there's big movements it would be I think and and I'm not trying to get the weeds in this dad but I think we probably could pick some very noted ministers since the beginning of America that God used their ministry in significant ways and sometimes you see it reflected on the broader culture and sometimes it's more regional, but I think there's probably far more of those revival type movements, and by revival not like weekend revival, more of cultural impact things, Certainly the most people recognize 

David Barton [00:12:26] So let me go through some, you hit some of them, but there's the first grade awakening, there's a second grade awakening and there's a third grade awakening. There's the Civil War revivals, there are the revivals like with Dwight Moody, all the urban renewal type of revivals. There were a lot of turn of the century revivals you had a great New York City revival, a great Chicago revival, big urban area revivals as you get into the early 1900s you have Azusa Street revival. You also have all the Billy Sunday revivals with millions who came to Christ in the Billy Sunday days. As you move forward, Tim, you mentioned that the Billy Graham revivals, there was the movie from a couple of years ago, the Jesus Revolution. That was a huge revival in that period of time. So we've had a whole lot of revivals and I think we can probably, and we've talked about it on the program several times, we think we're probably in one now. Most of the times people don't know they're in a revival until it's over and they look back historically and say, hey, that was a revival. But the stats indicating right now what's happening with young people, particularly engine Z. That are coming to Christ in big numbers. Bible reading is up among that group and Gen Y as well. So there are a number of indicators that maybe we're messing around the fringes of a revival right now with what's going on with young people. And there are cultural indications with some of their behavior that maybe things are changing over the last two or three years. So all that to say, okay, I mentioned three great awakenings and I mentioned maybe 10 or 12 revivals. So what's the difference between a revival and a great awakening? 

Rick Green [00:13:56] Hmm, man, I don't know. I really don't. No, I'm going to guess off the top of my head. A revival might be shorter. Let me, let me kind of positive to you this way. 

David Barton [00:14:06] Every Great Awakening changed the culture. The First Great Awakened changed the culture. Yeah, there's actual impact on the culture, not just- It impacted the culture and impacted even the way that non-Christians thought. It impacted way the whole culture operated. It impacted economics. It impacted business. It impacted government. It impacted church. It impacted education. It impacted everything. And that's the First, Second, and Third Great Awakenings. Now, if you go to the Urban Renewal, Dwight Moody led more than a million people to Christ, we see no- direct impact in society after those revivals. The matter of fact, progressivism was coming in at that time and progressivisim grew throughout that revival time. As you move into the Azusa Street revivals, you move in to the Billy Sunday revivals not only was progressivim growing, it took over the culture, it took the universities, it took all for government. This is where progressivm gets its roots. Now, I mean, you get even into, I was part of the Jesus revolution. I was there for all that stuff. Expo 76, et cetera. You cannot show any change in sexual behavior as a result of that big revolution. We were in the middle of the sexual revolution and it only got worse after that. At least in the sexual revolutions we weren't talking about how many genders there were. Now we've gone through complete, no limits on any kind. So you look at it and you say there's a whole lot of revivals and they did not change the culture. So how do you get a revival to change the cultural when you have one? Because otherwise you may have your fire insurance, but you haven't done anything to to go make disciples all man i think that's the answer is making disciples what happened in great awakenings was they would disciple the people and instead of talking about your relationship with jesus that also say and here's what the bible says about government here's with the bible said about racial issue and it it got into so many practical everyday issues that they took it back to live with us so instead of just saying the sinner's prayer and making converts of all men were actually making disciples of all man and I think that that's what's happened with what you guys are doing, is you're putting the time into discipleship to change the way that people think so that not only do they have fire insurance, they've got life insurance on how to live life throughout the rest of their life and the culture and make a difference. That's just me kind of throwing that out there. But that's where I think is, we're on the verge of an America. I think we've got a revival going and I hope it doesn't stay a revival. I hope turns into a discipleship movement, the kind of stuff you're talking about because that's makes a difference in the nation in my opinion. 

Tim Barton [00:16:28] I think one thing to add to that thought too is that even during the great awakenings The great awakennings even though it reached the majority of American people the majority of American People didn't fully Align with all of the values and vision of the great awakening But the great Awakening was so embedded in the hearts and minds of enough people even though It was a minority the population that incredibly impacted and dedicated minority did things like the founding fathers they went to the First Great Awakening, it was the unity of the First, or what unified them was what they learned in the First great awakening, and that allowed them to lay the foundation that led to America becoming a nation. Similarly, even in the Second Great Awakened, during the Second great awakening it's the middle of the abolition movement. It's right the 1820s and 1830s, 1840s, and the nation is being divided by this, but in the second great awakening there's enough people that their hearts and minds are so impacted, they're gonna stand strong, fighting for biblical truth, and not just the truth that God is real, that we are all broken sinners who need a savior, but also, like what Charles Finney really largely advocated, was there should be activity. There should be action behind your conversion, behind the gospel ministry. There should be fruits coming from it. And it encouraged a large swath, even though a minority, of people to stand up, and it's largely the abolitionists that help bring it into slavery. And the reason I say that is, even though the awakenings impacted the majority of Americans, it didn't cause the activity for majority of Americans, but the activity it calls for a dedicated minority impacted and changed the entire nation. And I think that to your point, that's what the discipleship foundation is doing. It's impacting a dedicated minority that will stand on principle and those that stand ultimately can impact and change the future course of the nation. 

Rick Green [00:18:11] When we come back from the break, let's talk about that discipleship. The curriculum covers apologetics, biblical citizenship, communications, moral philosophy, character development, worldview, American history, and so much more. And as Tim mentioned, we've got just a few slots left. Move-in date is just two weeks away though. So if you're interested in coming to the program, we have actually not just slots, but we have a few $15,000 scholarships available to give out. I somehow got the account numbers to Tim's bank account and just siphon that off and we're going to give it away. I'm kidding. Anyway, we do have some scholarships available. Thanks to some of our generous donors. And so if you'd like to take advantage of that, go to patriotacademy.com/institute patriotacademy.com/institute. We'll be right back. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:19:59] Welcome back to the WallBuilder show. Chris Dunham, our special guest today, the Dean of the Patriot Institute, a one-year program at the Patriots Academy campus begins September 15th and runs through May and we have a few slots left. If you're interested, check it out at Patriotacademy.com/institute and apply for those scholarships. Krish you know, look, you got them, for a year. What do you expect them to be able to walk away with in one year of, as David and Tim said, discipleship. 

Krish Dhanam [00:20:26] Well, as we put the curriculum this time, which is a little more expanded from the last time, because the numbers have obviously increased and the amount of time we're spending with them is going to increase as we get more established. The traditional fare of Patriot Academy that was authored by David and you in terms of biblical citizenship and all of that is already a given. But some of the disciplines we're adding are, we're going to talk about worldviews separately from apologetics. Which means in apologetics, we'll do the defense of the Christian faith. We'll go through moral apologetics. Classical apologetics scientific apologetics cultural apologetics all of that. But in worldviews, we're going to go in depth into studying all the other religions that make up the world or as Evie Hill used to say that all the isms that should be wasms will cover there. So from Hinduism and scientism and atheism to Islam will cover all that. Another thing we're going to uncover is we're gonna do moral philosophies and go back to the Aristotelian Academy and bring it down to the Italian and the Greek schools of thought, take them down through the Renaissance thinkers to contemporary to postmodernism to post truth. So what we're to do is actually teach them history, not in the chronological way they were used to, but in a vertical silo as to how the world was operating in different spheres at the same time. So they're going to understand philosophy and worldviews and religion going vertically across the globe and will understand why different people are different ways. And that's just my globalist perspective I'm bringing to them saying that we have a unique chance to tell them why America is unique in all of this great experiment. I've lived overseas. I came to America as a youngster. I mean, you know, nothing to my name, but what I share with them is as I travel around the world, the American story is exceptional, not because of what we know is exceptional. But if you look at it from a global perspective, America is the youngest of all civilizations out there now. I mean, most of our antiques are plastic, and yet it's made such a great impact on history. And why is this unique thing, and I attribute it to... A biblical identity that America had that somehow made her morally good in the declarations that she provided because every other worldview was convoluted when they tried to create geography and their own versions. India I grew up in is a republic but India is a very different republic than America is a Republic because India had a 5,000 history that they had to bring pieces together and America's uniqueness was just that biblical foundation. They didn't waver from that. As I have since learned in my journey with you guys through David and his teachings. 

Rick Green [00:23:15] You know, David, part of the effectiveness of a student has to be not just the intellectual knowledge, but the practical skills, the speaking skills, you know, the relationships skills, that the relationships that they'll build with others as well. And I talked to a guy the other day. I was asking him, he does coaching and mentorship and I said, you know, how do you, how, do you pick good mentors? How do you find people that can instill these things? And he said, well, the most important thing is to find a good mentee. You got to find students that are ready for the master to show up. David do you think this generation do you see the same hunger for righteousness and hunger to make a difference. I mean, you've been doing this a while. You've watched the culture crumble and now begin to be rebuilt. Do you see a generation or at least the leaders of the next generation that we're hoping to train that's ready for us to pass the torch tool. 

David Barton [00:24:04] I'll tell you, I think there's something unique there. And this came out maybe 10 years ago when we did the book, This Becarious Moment. Jim Garlo and I did that book and it was kind of here we are in America and this is really important time where we are. And one of the things that came out in polling and as you know, George Barn is really good friend. And so we keep up with polling, ask polls, how polls done, commission polls. And the thing that came out at that point 10 years with what was the rising generation and your Gen Y was much younger back then and your Gen Z was really young was in both Gen Y and Gen Z. That's the first time in polling history, about 120 years been doing polls since the 1900s. First time in polling history that we found a generation that was willing to be mentored by someone much older than them. Most generations want to hang with their own friends. They want to Hang out with people. And suddenly these guys said we don't care what age you are if you can get us the information to show the relationship if you have the genuine interest in us will listen to whoever you are and i thought that at that point time was the start of what could be a genuine revival and great awakening because what happened with the founding fathers these young guys had older guys mentoring them and we went through the sixties and seventies and eighties were ages everything you're the you're the wrong generation you can't tell me anything You don't know what I'm going through. I'm all different and You know, suddenly we're back now to a couple of generations in polling that don't care what your age is. They want to learn from someone who's got something to offer. And I think that what happens right now, this is the perfect time for what you guys have, what you're sitting up, because the experience that comes from people who've already been through the fight meant to the generations, the things that an old, uh, an old special forces guy can teach a young special forces. Guy. I mean, that's, that the kind of stuff you want and that's the kind of stuffs important. And I think that that's a difference with this generation and perhaps this revival we're going through now. I think we have the opportunity to turn it into a great awakening through that capability of teaching younger people from people who've already been there and already learned it. 

Rick Green [00:26:05] Patriotacademy.com forward slash Institute to learn more about it. Of course, for most people listening now, you know, fall of 2026 is probably the time to be thinking about this, but there's a handful of you out there that are spontaneous enough and ready to go, and you were looking for something exactly like this. You're the ones that need to get on the, on the website right now, because literally in the next 48 hours, you need to apply. If you want one of those scholarships, Patriotcademy.com/institute, Krish Dhanam. Thanks for joining us today, man. 

Krish Dhanam [00:26:31] My joy, thanks for having me and I look forward to what the year will bring. Excited about being there. 

Rick Green [00:26:38] Thanks to all who are listening. Be sure to visit our websites today, wallbuilders.com and wallbuilder.show. You've been listening to The WallBuilder Show.