Rick Green [00:00:07] You found your way to the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us today on the WallBuilder Show. Visit our websites, wallbuilders.com and wallbuilders.show a little bit later, actually in just a few minutes, David's going to have a chance to teach us about a country that I couldn't even tell you anything about, but he just got back from there. So David, you went off to Armenia. What in the world took you to, of all places, Armenia? 

David Barton [00:00:31] Well it is a it is an ally nation to America it is the first Christian nation in the world I knew nothing about it before I got ready to go and until I got there and found out man it is there are so many reasons for Christians know about it and for America to be connected with it and then right after we got back is when Trump announced the ceasefire between in Armenia and Azerbaijan, so that made national news and even global news. And because of that, it really does become something that Americans need to know about because it's a new ally coming up. But from a Christian standpoint, we've got a lot of brothers and sisters over there that need a lot help spiritually. They are persecuted people, persecuted country. And they're just one of our allies and it's just good to know them. 

Rick Green [00:01:17] One of those like, you know, I didn't realize, I didn't know what an Assyrian Christian was until we got to know Banel Dariush and the UFC fighter that came here from Iran and is an Asyrian Christian, his whole family. Is this kind of like that where you've got these pockets of Christianity in these countries that we typically think of as being all Muslim? 

David Barton [00:01:38] Well, this is a Christian country surrounded by Muslim countries. So it's not a pocket of Christianity in a country. It is a Christian country in a pocket of radical Islam in that part of the region. So it is its own independent country, has been since, you know, the country is six times older than the United States is as far as a country kind of goes. They go back 1700, 1800 years. Actually their early maps go back 2600 years ago. So they've been around for a good while. 

Tim Barton [00:02:07] Yeah, I think that to clarify, they've been around much longer, but as a Christian nation, it was I think 300 something approximately, they became a Christian Nation. So at that point, they're one of the oldest, if not maybe the oldest Christian Nation in the history of the world. And it's one of things that, not only at WallBuilders, we have some connections because there's somebody who works for WallBuilder, who is an Armenian Christian, Who is a legal U.S. Citizen, lots of cool things and stories surrounding that, but also we have several people on our staff that have been tracking very closely some of the Christian persecution in Armenia and even some of our connections with Mercury One. Our friends over there, Suzanne Grishman, JP Decker, they have done a lot of stuff over the years and we won't get into some of those details and some of it for intentional reasons, but in some of we've done to help rescue Christians and persecuted religious minorities through Mercury One and the Nazarene Fund on that side, there's been some connections with Armenian Christians. So we kind of had some familiarity, but Dad, when you were about to go on this trip, I mean, literally not to be like overly dramatic, but it was like, hey, let's make sure your will's up to date. Let's make that we have some of these details in place because we didn't really know what it was going to look like when you went. Obviously you're going with a group that, you know, there's a thought of safety, but we also knew when, when you were signing up for this trip, that there was war going on and you actually went before President Trump was able to help navigate a peace deal. So there was a lot of uncertainty to you going, but man, when you came back, you had so many great stories, so many great pictures, and we probably can talk about that. Depending on what happens in this interview, we, we might bring up some that on the back side after the interview, but. It's certainly interesting finding out much more about Armenia and the Christian that the deep Christian connection there and as a person of faith here in America understanding some of that the foundation from Armenia that even impacts America today. 

David Barton [00:04:17] So we've got an interview coming up with Dan Harry, he's the executive director for Save Armenia and he's a Christian in America but very cognizant of how important Armenia is in the global perspective and so helps educate Americans and helps take American leaders to Armenia to help make that connection. A great guy, really did a great job on the trip and so we've gotten Dan Harry executive director of Save Armenia and wouldn't come back. 

Rick Green [00:04:45] Stay with us folks, we'll be right back on The WallBuilders Show. 

David Barton [00:05:55] We're back now with Dan Harry. Dan and I actually met just a few weeks ago on a trip to Armenia. And as I mentioned, Armenia, I couldn't have found that on a world map if I tried, but that was a significant trip. So Dan, you're with Save Armenia. Tell folks about Save Armenia, what you guys do, what you're up to. 

Dan Harry [00:06:14] Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me David and thank you for coming to Armenia I I don't think most Americans have heard of the country or if they've heard the name they don't know much about it. But our organization was founded about three years ago when actually the significant Armenian population population of Armenian Christians was being blockaded They were being starved to death by Azerbaijan and so our organization was founded in response to rally American Christian support for our Armenian Christian brothers and sisters. And so we primarily do this by bringing American Faith leaders civil society leaders to Armenia to see the country to see land to see the monasteries in the world's oldest and first Christian nation 301 AD so they can connect with the land and the people And you know that that history there as the first Christian Nation is also our history as American Christians, so we bring American Christian leaders over there to see it and then bring them home to advocate for our brothers and sisters there.

David Barton [00:07:23]  So given you know there's 193, 195 nations of the world you in any given year Armenia is one of them and it doesn't get a whole lot of coverage in America until President Trump did announce the peace treaty you know he kind of turned the spotlight on it as soon as we get back from the trip he does the the peace treaty announcement.  What's special about Armenia for Americans? I mean, you mentioned the fact that it's the first Christian nation. And by the way, let's expand on that a little bit even. The first Christian Nation, how did it become a Christian Nation? How far back were we going here? 

Dan Harry [00:07:57] Yes, absolutely. So, it became formally Christian in 301 AD when the Armenian king made it the official state religion. The way that came about is the king had actually been sick, and while he was sick, his daughter came to him and said, hey, there is this Christian, because at the time the Armenians were pagans, she said, there's this Christian that you had thrown in jail, I think it was 13 years ago, and, you know, this man... He knows God, he performs miracles. You should get him out of the pit and see if he can heal you. We now know this man as Saint Gregory the Illuminator, but the Armenian king called Saint Gregory out of this pit today, known as Hor Virap, which we visited over during our trip recently, and Saint Gregory healed the king. And at that point, he knew that the Christian God was the one true God, and it became the official state religion, even before Rome. 

David Barton [00:08:56] So backing up, how'd Christianity come to Armenia? 

Dan Harry [00:08:59] Yes, absolutely. So it was originally brought there to the region by Jude Thaddeus and Bartholomew. So they went there on separate mission trips, if you will. 

David Barton [00:09:10] Now wait, time out. Those three, so three of Jesus' apostles came into that area and preached the gospel. 

Dan Harry [00:09:17] Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. And so Jude, he's also sometimes known as Thaddeus, and then Bartholomew, and we think Thomas was there, too. So this was a pretty well-known kingdom at the time. I mean, Armenia used to be quite large. It took up much of what we know today as Turkey, Iran, Georgia. It was a really large kingdom, and so they brought the gospel there. I believe Juthadius and Bartholomew are still, they're buried in historical Armenia. I think today their graves might be in what is now Iran and Turkey, but Jesus' very own disciples went to the kingdom. It's also, even before the coming of Christ, people may know that the symbol of Armenian faith, Mount Ararat, which is this huge mountain that towers over the Armenian capital of Yerevan, That's where Genesis tells us that Noah's Ark landed. 

David Barton [00:10:21] Yeah, so we're talking, I mean, a literal biblical land here, Old Testament, New Testament, both of it. And I've got to say, you know, I'm just a nice dumb American who knew nothing about Armenia. I was awed. I'd never even questioned where did Jesus apostles ever go? Because, you, know, once Jesus dies, he resurrects. Now we're in the book of Acts. Now we are in the Paul, the Pauline epistles. Were in the red, but I never wondered about where the other 11 went and what they did. And the three of them went into Armenia is just absolutely awesome. And I'd never thought about that until we stood at that place where there is that Memorial erected where that three apostles visited that site and I had never thought of that. And then we turned around and right behind us was Mount Ararat. So looking at where Noah's Ark lands and I'm looking at where three apostles from Jesus stood. It was really quite remarkable. And having said that this, this nations have been a Christian nations since 301 A.D. And I would say what I learned is you can't think of it like Christian nations under the Roman empire, where the King says, you're going to be Christians or I'm going to kill you all. It's not that kind of, it's not coercive. It was a voluntary Christian nation, which is a positive way, but in seeing where it was, I mean, it is, it has really surrounded by everything. There's not a Christian anywhere close to that country, except for that little reservoir of Christians right in the middle of a super hostile part of the world, tell, tell us the geography around there, what's going on. 

Dan Harry [00:11:47] Absolutely. Well, you're right. It is an extremely difficult neighborhood. To their west, they have Turkey. Turkey responsible for the Armenian genocide just about 100 years ago, where 1.5 million Armenian Christians refused to convert to Islam and were slaughtered. To their east, they have Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan and Turkey consider themselves, I think the phrase is, one nation, two states. They are the closest of allies and historically share that animosity towards Armenia. To the south is Iran. Armenia actually has decent relations with Iran. They've had good relations dating back thousands of years, you know, back when Iran was still Zoroastrian. But of course, there's still plenty of complications in the relationship. And then to the north, you have Georgia, which at this point is largely controlled by Russia so it is it is a brutal neighborhood and most of its borders are actually currently closed or blockaded and have been for decades by Turkey and Azerbaijan 

David Barton [00:12:56] When your nicest neighbor is Iran, that's a tough neighborhood. That's right. When you're talking, Iran is the best neighbor you got. That's that's crazy. 

Dan Harry [00:13:06] Well said. 

David Barton [00:13:07] So I think you're the one that telling me that the next closest Western ally kind of neighbor, you have to go all the way to South Korea. I mean, you're you're crossing a couple of continents, essentially to get to the next most friendly country there. And it's like with Armenia, it really is a lighthouse in the middle of a turbulent tumultuous sea. It's crazy what's there. 

Dan Harry [00:13:30] It's an absolute outpost both for you know Western values, but but also for the faith for Christian does for Eastern Christianity and these these people these brothers and sisters have endured so much I mentioned the genocide and Armenians the Armenian Church has given more martyrs to to Christianity than any other tradition or denomination, so they've they've paid for it, but they've held the line 

David Barton [00:13:56] Okay, so from the American standpoint, Trump has now brought this on the, if you will, on the screen of American thinking and, you know, most Americans may be like me, probably smarter, so they might know where Armenia is. But what do American Christians do now to help Armenia and why? 

Dan Harry [00:14:13] Absolutely, you know, I think for most members of the government whether it's Congress or the executive branch they just don't know about Armenia. And so I know it's cliche but to call your representative in and tell them You know just a couple few of these important facts Armenia the world's first Christian nation Armenia evangelized by Jesus own Apostles and you know Armenia land of of Noah's Ark this is a country we need to pay attention to, a country we need pray for and one that we want to develop deeper ties with. And I think when, when members of Congress, when we've met with them and we share this information, it automatically, you know, cuts right through to their heart, so it's, it's really an education game right now. 

David Barton [00:15:03] I mean, with all the persecution going on, by the way, we didn't talk about the, the 44 day war and all the stuff that went on. So let's back up now to what has recently happened, why, I mean Trump reached a treaty, why was the treaty needed? What kind of war was going on? What happened in the war?

Dan Harry [00:15:19] Yes, absolutely. So, Armenia and Azerbaijan have been fighting for decades, specifically about this territory known as Artsakh. Artsakh has been populated by Armenians for thousands of years, even before Christianity arrived when it was still pagan. So, this is ancient Christian land. Joseph Stalin, when he was cobbling together the Soviet Union, took this area of Armenians called Artsakh or Nagorno-Karabakh, he sort of plucked it out of Armenia and put it in Azerbaijan to make these nations divided and easier to rule. When the Soviet Union fell, Artsakh declared itself an autonomous republic, and it actually was an autonomous Republic within Azerbaijan, but when the USSR fell, it declared its independence from Azerbaijan and of course Armenia came to its aid and defense. Azerbaijan did not like this and so basically for several decades there was fighting over whether this region could be autonomous or possibly part of Armenia or whether Azerbaijan would maintain control. Beginning in the 2020s Azerbaijan had built up military superiority. It had spent the last several decades selling gas and oil bringing in enormous amounts of wealth and investing it into their military. They started chipping away at Nagorno-Karabakh, reconquering it. And in 2022 and 23, they had staged a 9 or 10 month blockade of the region, starving its residents, and then followed that up with a lightning offensive, ethnically cleansing 120,000 Armenians from the region. And when we say cleansed, there was... I think between five and 13 people left in this region that has been populated by Armenians for thousands of years. Today that number is one or two people who are extremely mentally infirm or that type the thing and so. 

David Barton [00:17:31] So you went from 120,000 down to literally you can count on one hand, the number, and it was a complete ethnic cleansing, probably one of the greatest ethnic cleansings in the last century, I would say. Absolutely. As far as size goes. And it was all about faith. It was, it was Azerbaijan, radical Islam.  You got Christians in Artsakh and they're not going to put up with the Christians. And so out it goes. And so Trump, you know, it's kind of at least brought a truce to that. But at that point, Azerbaijan had stopped fighting because they had the land they wanted anyway, essentially. They've still holding some hostages, are the hostages still being held there?   

Dan Harry [00:18:11] Yes, so they still have 23 hostages and today they still hold a chunk of Armenia proper so not just that disputed Artsakh but still some land in Armenia proper. The reason the Trump administration had to come in and broker peace and the reason we're so thankful is that Azerbaijan had even been putting out statements after the ethnic cleansing that all of Armenia is actually what they call Western Azerbaijan. It's revisionist history. Trump came in and said I know you've been talking about attacking Armenia again, that's not gonna happen, and he brought him to the table. 

David Barton [00:18:47] So what you've got now is Armenia is becoming, it's an independent nation, maybe fairly stable in the sense that Trump is at least told the other guys to back off and leave the borders alone. So what is America now doing with Armenia? Are we given military aid, military help? Cause Armenia doesn't have a military to speak of, does it?

Dan Harry [00:19:10]  They do, but it's, it' very Soviet if you will you know their weapons are dated they the relationship with France and the United States is blossoming and growing but they haven't really cycled in new western equipment. So the United State's partnership with Armenia is primarily economic and we're not we're giving them any money we're now putting boots on the ground what we're talking about is investing in the country. You know, the United States or Nvidia recently invested 500 million into Armenian AI. They have a thriving tech sector like Israel and the cornerstone of the peace deal that Trump brokered is actually called TRIP, the Trump route for international peace and prosperity. The idea is that you're going to have this road going through Armenia that's going to help create what's referred to as the mill corridor, basically this economic corridor that goes around or subverts both Iran and Russia. And this has the potential to yield huge economic benefits for the U.S. And Armenia. So at this point, it's really investing in infrastructure and we're gonna see returns on that. 

David Barton [00:20:17] Yeah, it's really cool that, uh, I mean, for me, having been there, I now have a connection to that country. I now understand it really is strategic, that's one of the few outposts of Western thinking and they're former Soviet and they are in the middle of a bunch of bad guys and they are trying to be a good ally and do the right things and now we had American businesses coming in and AI and other stuff there. And we're talking about a Christian culture, Christian population, that really does do the thing, even with really hostile neighbors around them. They've just done a really remarkably good job. Now I'm pointing out, I think there's about 12 million Armenians in the world, about less than three million, I think in Armenia, about nine million outside. And as a matter of fact, there's more Armenians in America than there are in Armenia right now between California and Jersey and other places. So it's a really good, really sweet set of people, you know, in general terms. And so hopefully folks will hear this thing about praying for Armenia, praying for their brothers there. You got brothers and sisters all over the world. You need to remember those that are being persecuted scripture tells us remember those in bonds so they're still folks like that so, Dan, going forward what can average person do to help help you help armenia what should the average person what should they be praying for what kind of things practically can people do that will help. 

Dan Harry [00:21:32] Yeah, thanks for asking David one of the things you can do if you're on social media is follow our accounts to stay informed. The situation moves rapidly this this peace deal, you know, from start to finish. I think took about three months it moved quickly and I think the Trump administration is going to keep advancing the ball quickly so stay informed so that you can tell people in your network and your elected officials what's going on. If you have the resources to donate, we're always thankful for donations and that helps pay for things like the delegations we bring over there and continuing to raise awareness. And in terms of praying for them, pray for God's continued blessing and use of the American government and the Trump administration to... I want to say shield. I'm hesitant to say that because the Armenians are really courageous and strong. They're not victims, but for lack of a better word, shield that country against hostile forces. 

David Barton [00:22:27] Dan, appreciate what you do, man. So website, savearmenia.org. 

Dan Harry [00:22:32] Close.us. 

David Barton [00:22:34] .Us,. 

David Barton [00:22:34] SaveArmenia.us, so guys go there, get all the stuff, look at the stuff sign up, connect with them. Dan, I appreciate all you do brother. Keep us informed. 

Dan Harry [00:22:43] Thank you, David. You as well. 

Rick Green [00:23:53] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Thanks for staying with us, David. What an interview, man. I mean, that was an education right there. And to think that a people could be so massacred from those numbers down to a dozen or two and that they still have hostages and we know nothing about it. Like this has been, I haven't seen it covered at all. I mean maybe there's some news outlets covering it, but and the timing of God having you go over there before Trump even negotiated the peace deal, just amazing. 

David Barton [00:24:22] Yeah, it is amazing and I'm still amazed at the fact that their best neighbor is Iran. When Iran is your best neighbor that you got, you got a situation going on there. And then when the next closest Christian Western nation you have to that country is South Korea. Are you kidding me? You have to go that many thousands of miles to find another friendly country. Quite a remarkable island of sanity over there. 

Tim Barton [00:24:48] Well, and I think you know this better than I do, dad, from having been there in connections. I think what they were saying is more of like the Western value idea. In the sense of, I don't know that South Korea, we would necessarily define South Korea as a Christian nation, but certainly some of those Western values that have been developed because of Christianity, the influence of Christianity and certainly with America's influence in South Korea after the Korean War, there's a lot of connection. But to your point. I thought it was so interesting as, as y'all were going through some of the nations that are not friendly and hostile. And it surprised me that when you have Turkey, that's not friendly. And Iran somehow there's a, a historical connection that for some reason they're friendly, it really is very telling. And then Azerbaijan, with what's been going on and to find out about the military that's there. It's so many important details. And then dad is as y'all talked about the fact that this is one of the places that the Jesus disciples, the apostles actually went that they're spreading Christianity there. It's part of why Christianity was there and Christianity really wasn't that big of a deal until there was a supernatural miracle and it kind of birthed Christianity on a large scale in Armenia. It really is a fun story and one that probably I'm going to go dig a little bit more into and find out more about what's there. Maybe one day go with you on a trip to Armenia. And get to see some of those places for myself, but really really interesting stuff 

Rick Green [00:26:19] Yeah, definitely different from our normal programming. Usually we're talking about domestic things happening here, but David, as you said in the interview, very important for us as Christians to know about our brothers and sisters around the world, these things happening. So great time to go visit MercuryOne.org, a great place to give and just to stay informed on these types of things around the word and how we're able to help in some of those situations. Thanks so much for listening today, folks. You've been listening to The WallBuilders Show.