Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us today on the WallBuilders show. Be sure to visit our websites. We've got two of those wallbuilders.show that's our radio site. So that's where you catch up with all the radio programs. You might've missed over the last few weeks and months. And then wallbuilder.com. That's our main website. That's a great place to just go stay up to date on some of the headlines out there to get some of their new resources that we've got available to you. There's everything from swag including shirts and hats to incredible courses that you can go through and things you can share with your friends and family to get them educated as well. And then of course, that's the place where you make the one-time or monthly contribution as well, so check that out today at wallbuilders.com. And if you're a first-time listener and you're just curious, want to learn more about us, I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach, David Barton, America premier historian, and Tim Barton are president of WallBuilders and a pastor. Guys, I'm a little bit embarrassed to say that Texans are being cowards. I know that's a weird way to start the program. But the fact that we have cowards in Texas running off to hide in other states, what's going on with the Texas legislature? 

Tim Barton [00:01:09] I think it's more fair to say that there's Democrats that are being cowards than Texans. 

Rick Green [00:01:14] Much more accurate. Yes. 

Tim Barton [00:01:16] You know, just clarifying word there, um, and, you know, guys, this is something too, that there were times up in Oregon, as an example, when Oregon several years ago was going to vote on, I don't remember if it was, like gender transition of kids and not telling parents, it was something along those lines. And, and we have some, some people that we've been connected with for years and been part of our, our pro family legislative network for years. And there was a group of Republican senators and they said look that this is important enough for the kids and in Oregon I think the law was you can only miss so many days And if you miss more and I don't remember what it was 10, 20 so many days if you missed more than that, you're not eligible for reelection and so they knew it would cost them their seat if they missed it but they were able to hold out and prevent that piece of legislation from going through and we applauded them because it was the greater moral good When you're talking about why Democrats ran away and left from the Texas House is because President Trump, by and large said, you guys need to look at redistricting because the way Texas is, is more conservative than some of the congressmen that we are sending up to DC. Now you're sending out more Democrats and really you should, based on your state, you need to redistricting. And there was some strategic thought from the president knowing that because it's such a narrow majority right now in the house and also historically, very consistently, presidents that win the election do not win in the midterm and usually that Congress switches in the mid-term, well, if Congress switches the mid term, he's already having a hard time getting stuff done with the Congress that he has, and if he loses any seats and Democrats take power, it could change so much. So he's looking for ways that they can sure up. That the number of seats they have for Republican congressmen. And he said, Texas, that you guys need to work on this redistrict. And that's one of the things that governor Abbott in the special sessions, not the only thing, but it's one of the thing he said all Texas state legislators. This is one of the tasks you have. And when Democrats left that this was the number one thing they pointed to the reason they are leaving, the reason they are going to Illinois is because we don't want to stay here and watch this political nonsense, blah, blah, as they give their explanation. So giving now kind of a fair assessment, there are times that we would actually applaud people for doing what they can to fight for a moral good. But when we look at what is the moral good that Democrats are fighting for, is to not let Republicans have any seats in the house. And that's the quote unquote moral good that doesn't make a lot of sense in the same way that we might look at what happened in Oregon and go, you know what, we applaud those Republican state leaders who were working to save children from having doctors come in and do procedures. And, you know, maybe at times, and again, I don't remember the exact legislation, it was a couple years ago. So this might not be totally correct. But I feel like there were some of this involved doing things without parental consent. And so then it was even a bigger deal because it's kids, it's parental rights. There are certain things we would applaud people for taking a moral stand on, but right now it seems like Democrats, just because they're not going to get their way, they're going to take their ball and go home. They're going cry and whine and go in different direction. That seems far more of what is happening and not that they can't politically do this. And of course, Governor Abbott has identified that, you know, maybe there needs to be arrest warrants. Maybe they need to lose their positions and Governor Abbitt would appoint new people. There's a lot of conversation surrounding this. I don't know there's a lot that can necessarily happen. I think even if you had a favorable judge to some extent, I think it would be challenged and it would held up long enough in court that it doesn't actually solve practically anything happening for this special session. But I do think it is rather cowardly that because they're not gonna get their way and it's not, again, in my mind, it's some great moral high ground. They're leaving to maintain a moral high-ground. No, they're leaving because they know they don't have the votes to stop redistricting. And that's a totally different level of cowardice or again, like taking my ball and going home. Very different. 

David Barton [00:05:39] But Tim, you may remember that in Oregon, it cost those legislators like 20 of them, 21 of them their seats, because they were out for such a length of time that they actually had to give up their seats. But they were not gonna back off on that moral issue. I don't think Democrats are willing to give their seats on this. And by the way, I think I disagree with that. I think this is a moral issue for Democrats. It's just that they have a different set of morals than what we have. Their moral says, unless they're in charge, it's not good. And their moral is right and wrong is on who's in charge and it's gotta be them. 

Tim Barton [00:06:08] Well, and that was my point, right? Is what is their moral high ground they're taking on this? And the only moral high-ground they can have is that we're not getting our way. Therefore we're taking our ball and going home. So it's not a question of, are they going to argue it's a moral thought? It's what moral thought is it? And where does that moral thought fall in hierarchy? And really, you know, dad, kind of to your point, it's, if we're not in control, that's the worst morals there could be. But that is a very silly position. And to your points, probably these Democrats that are leaving, going up to Illinois or wherever else they're going to be hiding. They certainly would not be willing to give up their seat because they don't think it's that significant. They're really politically posturing and doing other things. They wanna slow down any progress that might be made. And ultimately, they're probably not gonna be effective, but this is certainly a game they've played before and it looks like they're happy to play again. 

David Barton [00:06:54] Yeah, it looks like they are happy to play again and it is for them about power. I mean, that's just one of the things Republicans can be out of power if they do the right thing. I don't know that Democrats can be outer power for any reason and it'd be the right thing for them. So it's a real different thing. And you know, this is not a new deal for Democrats in Texas. You guys, this, we're having history time tonight, but go back about 25 years. Pete Laney was speaker of the house in Texas, it came redistricting time in Texas and they all took off and disappeared and went somewhere. Nobody could find them. And strange thing is we were driving from Tulsa through Oklahoma back to Texas. We stopped at a state park and found them all the Democrats at that state park. And so we called the governor and called the others said, hey, the Democrats you've been looking for. We just stumbled onto them here and they'd taken a couple of private jets and flown up to Oklahoma in a state park and we're hiding out. So this is not a new thing for Democrats to turn and run when they think they're going to lose power. This is something Texas Democrats have done for quite a while, unfortunately. 

Rick Green [00:07:53] In fact, David, I'll take you back even further they did it in 1991. They did it 1981. They did in 1870 and this time it was because the state was trying to fight the KKK and trying to create the police force to fight the KKK with. So the Democrats, of course, always the racist, they went and hid in the Senator's office and the sent and the Sergeant at arms had to dive through the window, roll into the room and say, let's go boys. And he arrested, I think 10 of the 12 and took only two of them to the floor, put the other 10 in jail. And the two that they needed for quorum, he let them go to the senate floor and they kept them in jail for, I think it was three weeks I forget. So, yep, this has been the way of the Democrats for a very, very long time.

David Barton [00:08:33]  I remember that one from 1870 because the Speaker of the House, I mean, the head of the Republican Party at that time was a black man here in Texas, and wait a minute, no, that's a different part of black history, but yeah, that's great point, Rick. That's a great point. 

Rick Green [00:08:47] Oh man, it's crazy. All right, well, listen, we've got Ken Ham. He's gonna take us even further back to creation. So we started, you know, just a few years ago. We went back to 1870. Now we're gonna go all the way back to Creation. Ken's gonna be with us, talk about a little bit of an update about what's going on with the Ark encounter and with the Creation Museum. Such a great opportunity to go out there this summer. We encourage everyone to visit. It's an amazing place. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back. Ken Ham, our special guest today on The WallBuilder Show. 

Rick Green [00:10:18] Welcome back to The Wallbuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Ken Ham back with us, always good to have you, sir. And excited to tell people before the summer's over to get out there to see the Ark and the Creation Museum. Appreciate you coming on, Ken. 

Ken Ham [00:10:29] Hey, thanks Rick. Yeah, I mean the Ark and the Creation Museum are the two leading Christian themed attractions in the world. And by the way, the Ark is the biggest themed attraction in the state of Kentucky. So people come from all over to see the Ark, and the creation museum. 

Rick Green [00:10:42] Well, we tell everybody to go. We absolutely love it. There's nothing like it. I mean, there's no, I tell everybody, Ken Ham does it first class. He does it right. When you go in there, you're gonna learn. And it's amazing. It's just, I never expected, the first time I went, I don't know, five, six, seven years ago, I did not expect the, just how it comes to life. I thought, okay, we're gonna go through and it's gonna be static or whatever. I mean all the animatronics or whatever you call it. It just feels like you step back and you actually walked onto the ark. It's unlike anything that there is no there's no attraction like it certainly not a No one with the biblical truth to go along with it. So 

Ken Ham [00:11:21] Well, no, there's not and, you know, the Ark is the biggest freestanding timber frame structure in the world. It's actually an architectural marvel and some people say, you know, it should be classed in the Seven Wonders of the Modern World, but it is a life-size Noah's Ark, you know, one-half times the length of a football field, half the width of a football field and it's built 15 feet off the ground, stands 10 stories high at the bow end, has three decks with 130 different exhibits answering all sorts of questions that people have and people come from all over the world. We get about a million people a year. Actually, since the Creation Museum opened in 2007 and the Ark opened in 2016, we've had upwards of 15 million people come and visit now. And people tell us, they just rave over it because it's every bit the quality you'd expect from Disney or Universal Studios. After all, Rick, if we're on about the truth of God's word and we're on about the gospel. Shouldn't we have the best quality possible? Because we're on about the most important message in the entire universe. 

Rick Green [00:12:21] Yeah, and he said, you know, in Colossians, everything you do, you do the best that you can, as unto God, not unto men, and that's what you've done. I mean, you've made it incredible. And I remember you telling me years ago, I forget the numbers, but a significant number of those people that have come to see it were not Christians. These are people that are just curious. 

Ken Ham [00:12:38] Yeah, in fact our research, we've done research over and over again, thousands and thousands of responses, so it's very valid research, shows us that about 30% of those who come are not Christian. I mean I've been here and I've seen Sikhs and Buddhists and Orthodox Muslims, you know, Orthodox Jews, Amish, Mennonite, there's even Baptists, you know, Presbyterians, Catholic nuns, priests. I mean it's a whole range of people and when you come here, people from different ethnic backgrounds, different skin shades, eye shapes. It's a mix you would never see in church and I'll tell you what too. We have done consistent research year after year, which indicates, very strongly, that about 7% of those who come to the arc say they have become Christians as a result. Do you realize that would be about 70,000 people a year and about 25,000 people at the Creation Museum in other words close to a hundred thousand people a year become Christians because of the attractions. I mean that is absolutely significant, and that's just the attractions alone, let alone everything else we do as an industry. 

Rick Green [00:13:40] Yeah, let alone the curriculum and how many millions you reach through media appearances and all the different things that you guys are doing. And I think, Ken, too, part of what I wanted to talk to you about is why that happens because it answers that fundamental question that keeps so many from coming to faith. They've been lied to about the origin, and if you don't get the origin right, everything else falls apart downstream, and so you're attacking that first question mark and that first lie that they've been given. And you're doing it in an entertaining, effective way. And I think that's why you see so many conversions, but what do you think? 

Ken Ham [00:14:16] Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, when you look at Scripture in Genesis 3, the first attack was on the authority of the Word of God when the devil came to Eve and said, did God really say? Did God actually say? And that was to create doubt, to lead to unbelief. And in the New Testament, the Apostle Paul tells us that, in fact, it's a warning in 2 Corinthians 11.3, the devil's going to use the same method on you as he did on Eve to get you to a position of unbelief, and what is that method he uses to get to doubt and not believe the word of God. You know, we've had generations come through a secular, which means anti-God, education system devoid of the knowledge of God. They've been taught naturalistic evolution, which is really atheism, as fact. And they think that the Bible can't be trusted and the Bible is not true. And 80-85% of kids from church homes go to the anti-God secular education system, and many of them end up leaving the church because they think the Bible canot be trusted. And the emphasis that we bring is one of apologetics and biblical worldview. By apologetics, 1 Peter 3.15, always be prepared to give an answer for what you believe. In other words, you have to give answers to the attacks on God's Word, be able to defend the Christian faith, like it says in Jude, you know, contend for the faith. And so, the questions that people have, and you know what the atheists have said, oh Noah's Ark can't be true. He couldn't fit all the animals on board. He couldn't t look after them anyway. Evolution is true, and the fossils were laid down over millions of years. So we have answers to all of those to point people to the truth of God's Word. And I've had non-Christians tell me, we never heard the information we saw in the exhibits at the Ark and Counter or the Creation Museum, and this has really challenged us. And as I said, many do become Christians as a result, and that's what it's all about. And if people ask me, you know, sometimes I've had the second media say, how would you sum up the message of the ark and the creation museum. And I say it's very simply put this way, the history in the Bible is true, beginning in Genesis. That's why the gospel based in that history is true. And it's true because, you know, Genesis, the very first verse, in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. If that verse alone is not true, the rest of the Bible was not true. And then Genesis 1 to 11 gives us an account of the biological, geological, astronomical, anthropological history that's foundational to everything. It's foundational toward our doctrine. It's foundation to the gospel. It's foundational to our Christian worldview. If you want to deal with any issue, you want deal with gay marriage or abortion or euthanasia or racism, you have to start from Genesis 1 to 11 and have the right foundational history concerning the creation of man, the entrance of sin, and the promise of the Savior and so on. When God made man, he made male and female, two genders only. And that's the first marriage, a man and a woman, and we're made in the image of God. And right from fertilization, we're made in image of god, so abortion is killing a human being made in a image of a god. I mean, Genesis 1 to 11 is the foundation for everything. We go back to one man and one woman, so we're all one race. There are no different races. So it's a foundation to deal with everything. 

Rick Green [00:17:23] Everybody eats it because it's not just the non-believer that's getting this incredible experience and often finding this truth and then coming to the Lord, but most of the church today, I would argue, can't answer these questions and is ill-prepared, not just for the kids, but every generation. And so it gives them confidence in their faith and that solid ability to respond. And you think of the 18, 19, 20-year-old that's gonna go into a college classroom and have to defend the faith. And if they don't have this foundation, it falls apart. And it's why they, what is it, 80% walk away from the faith when they go to these universities. But also just all of us in our 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s sitting around chatting and talking, and somebody asks a challenging question, and we aren't ready to answer. That's why this is so important, what you're doing. 

Ken Ham [00:18:11] Rick, you know, I have found, look, Biblical illiteracy permeates the church. And so many churches have not taught apologetics, they've not taught people how to defend the faith. And one of the reasons many people don't want to go out and really share their faith or challenge people is because they feel intimidated, because as soon as they do, they bring up questions or make attacks on the Bible and they don't know how to answer them. But what a difference it makes when they're equipped with those answers. It does give them, just like you said, it gives them that confidence, and they become more bold in their faith. It makes a big difference. And I've had people tell me that as they go through the Ark and the Creation Museum. They've said, I've learned more here than I have in my whole life in church or even at Bible college or seminary, because most Bible colleges and seminaries don't teach the importance of the foundational book of Genesis. Now, there are some that do, but they are a minority. And so for many of them, they say, we learned more at the Ark and the Creation Museum than we have done in our whole lives. And wow, it's given me a new confidence to go out and share the truth with people. 

Rick Green [00:19:13] It's, it's phenomenal. It's one of those things when you do it, you never forget it. It's like seminal, like this is a spike moment where, you know, you have these epiphanies as you're, as you are walking through there. And, uh, I'm telling you, anybody listening right now, if you have not been, you have got to go, can, arcencounter.com best place to, to kind of plan your trip. And is, is there a season, like when do you guys stop doing, or is it year round? 

Ken Ham [00:19:37] Well Rick, Arkencounter.com is certainly the best website to go to and they can find out about the Creation Museum there. People often ask us how long they should spend at the Ark encounter or the Creation Museum. You know, we have a three-day bouncer ticket to enable them to bounce back and forward between both attractions over a period of three days and I encourage people, if you're going to come to both, you need at least three days. Many people find they'd like to spend a couple of days at each attraction. Now it's year round, certainly the lowest months are January and February, it gets pretty cold. But we have some different things throughout the year. The busiest time, of course, is from Memorial Day weekend through to Labor Day weekend. That's the busiest, time. The busiest days are Saturday, so if people come, you know, mid-week or Mondays, Tuesdays, it's usually a lower time. Right now we're getting, even during the week, you now, 5,000 people a day and on Saturdays we can get anywhere from 8, 9, 10, 11,000. It depends on the day and that's just at the Ark encounter alone. So people do pour in here. So if people wanted a lower time to come, something like September, October. But then we have Christmas programs. And so from Thanksgiving through to early January, we have spectacular lights and all sorts of Christmas programs, and then we offer other programs like Logos Theater Productions doing The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe at our big theater here. That will happen late December, early January. So people can find out all the different things we do throughout the year from ark encounter.com, including our 40 days of Christian music festival, biggest Christian music Festival in the world from the end of July through to early September. So lots of fun things happening every day at the Ark and Counter and Creation Museum. 

Rick Green [00:21:20] And I cannot gloss over, the theater is state of the art, amazing, when we did Comedy Constitution there, I could not believe the light system, the programming you could do, it's a massive stage, it's absolutely incredible, and so you have a lot of big conferences there as well. And I loved, Kirk Cameron and I did an event there a couple years ago, and you lit up the, had the arc lit up red, white, and blue, because it was on July 4th, it was awesome. Anyway, I love you, brother, I appreciate so much, all that you guys are doing, we just, we appreciate the impact you are having. Not just on the American culture, but the entire world. So folks, go check it out, arkencounter.com. Plan your trip, get out there and see this. If you have not taken your family there, you've got to make this a bucket list item, but don't put it off. Go as soon as you can, because it will submit your faith and your child's faith. So do it as soon you possibly can. Ken Ham, bless you, brother. Thanks for coming on, man. Thanks, Rick. Anytime. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton.  Welcome back to the WallBuilders show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Ken Ham for joining us and for doing such an amazing job at creating such an amazing attraction. Anybody out there that hasn't been, you got to go. I mean, there is no substitute for actually visiting the Ark life size. I mean this thing's as big as it was actually in actually was in Noah's day, guys. 

Tim Barton [00:23:40] It is something that is really fun. You can see it from miles away and as you get closer, it is, you feel dwarfed being up close to it. There's a few things that when you stand by, you're like, this is way bigger than I thought. That is one of those things. You know, objects in mirror may be larger than they appear. Yes. That is Noah's Ark. When you get up close it, it's so fun. As he mentioned, right? I mean, there's people that will come and they'll get a multi-day pass and they go back and forth, bounce between the Creation Museum and the Ark. It definitely is something worth taking time to do. One of the great also benefits, if you are a homeschool family, is that you don't have to try to squeeze this in the next couple of weeks before school starts back. You actually can take time and do it going forward if you're connected with a Christian school. That's right. Man, make this a field trip for your Christian school, if your kids go to public school, we'll just find a gap, right? Find the time when you can. It is definitely worth the trip. And it's, it's so wonderful too, and helping answer questions that our kids are being inundated with in school and generally from a very unbiblical perspective, so to see things that show and confirm what the Bible says, the reality of it, it really is an incredible place to go visit. 

David Barton [00:24:54] And I think this is really big for another reason as well. This is the first doctrine of the Bible. You start in Genesis with creation and it's actually really the earliest doctrine set forth on the New Testament because John, when John wrote his gospel, he goes back to the beginning. He talks about creation word was in the beginning and so both old and new Testament, the earliest starting point is with this. So if you reject the creation, if you, if you say, I don't believe in that stuff, man, you just, you've rejected the starting place of the Bible. And it's interesting, if you reject creation, you've also rejected the starting place of American government, and the Declaration of Independence talks about the creator, and very clear that the creator has given us certain rights and enableable rights, and it all comes from the creator. And if there's no creation, there's not creator. I mean, if this evolved, then we don't have the creator so everything, from a government standpoint to a Bible standpoint, hinges on this doctrine, and to be secure in that doctrine, and go and actually see that arch, and by the way, guys, Just got back from Armenia. I stood right there at the base of Mount Ararat and looked up the mountain where Noah's Ark supposedly landed. It's an awesome thing to see. But nonetheless, that creation doctrine I think is the fundamental thing that you have to get right. If you get off track on that, you get of track on everything else from religion to government to whatever else. 

Rick Green [00:26:12] Arkencounter.com to learn more and to set up your trip. Speaking of field trips, we're going to take it. We're going hit your ride on a time machine tomorrow and take a field trip back to that 1870 thing we were talking about before Ken Hamdavid. Cause I am very, I didn't even think about the fact that there were black leaders in the legislature at the time being after the civil war. So we got to talk about that tomorrow and, uh, and get caught up on some of that history. Very, very interesting. All right, folks, we are out of time for today though. So be sure and visit our websites, wallbuilders.com. And Wallbuilders.Show. We appreciate you listening to the Wallbuilders Show.