Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture and yes, I'm chewing and the reason I'm chewing is because for those of you that listen all the time, you will know that David and Tim got a bunch of popcorn a couple weeks ago and they talked about it and they bragged about it, and they rubbed it in and they didn't share any with me. So if you were watching on video, I would be showing you the popcorn that some of our constitution coaches showed up with for Patriot Academy because they all listen to WallBuilders and they were like, Rick, we feel sorry for you and we love you. And we know you're gonna have a long week with all the Patriot Academy kids, and so we brought you popcorn since David and Tim wouldn't share it with you. No, if anybody's bothered by me chewing into the radio today, too bad, because now I have popcorn and David and Tim don't. 

Tim Barton [00:00:48] Okay tomorrow when I'm down at Patriot Academy for the the national I'm not sure 

Tim Barton [00:00:54] I'm not sharing with you. 

Tim Barton [00:00:55] Hang on a second. I encouraged people to bring you popcorn

Rick Green [00:01:00] You did, you did. You're right. Okay. I'll share, I'll sure. And, and, um, okay. So I don't think it's near as much as y'all got though. So anyway, yes, I'm sure you can't wait for you to get here, bro. We got, you know, all these kids coming in from all over the country. They just got here already getting them started. They had a good time, doing water war and a fun, and a fun time outside last night. So they did all their outside stuff and they're going to be all, you know, dressed up and ready to go this afternoon, getting sworn in and, and starting their legislative session. So excited about, what we're going get to do with them throughout the and, you know, I mentioned this the other night on, on flashpoint, cause I know we have friends that doom and gloom a lot, right? They're like, it's all over. And so I love talking to them about the young people and the remnant that's being raised up because it sort of shows them, listen, God's not done with us. And he's even preparing the next generation, not only doing things for us with this administration that we've got, but actually preparing the next generation. So I love this week. We're going to have a good time, bro. 

Tim Barton [00:01:54]  It is an incredible week. As you mentioned, we have the privilege, the benefit, the blessing of not just traveling and seeing God opening people's eyes all over the nation, but then getting to do things like this and see the rising generation that is fired, that is passionate, that God is actively stirring in them. And it is very encouraging for us. Now, Rick, I was going to say though, I have been to your campus many times. Your campus is continuing to grow. It's super exciting, but actually the fact that now you're going to be able to grow in very unique ways under your own governorship and leadership, because it'll be the first time you coming down to a new town. I know there's some details, some votes have to happen. However, the judge approved it. And so what town am I coming to now? It's not just, it's not, just Patriot Academy's campus anymore. I'm coming to an actual town. 

Rick Green [00:02:48] Well, I love the way you said that, by the way, that there's some votes that still need to happen. But what I heard in your voice was, but it's already rigged. Like we've already, you know, we know who's voting. The only people at the campus are constitution city people. So you're, you're coming to constitution city and everybody here wants to create constitution city. So I'm hoping that the vote is a hundred percent. We'll see. But, uh, yeah, it's kind of cool. I mean, I, I was asking somebody else the other day from outside of Texas, you know, about coming to town. I was like, can you imagine studying the constitution in Constitution City, Texas. It's gonna be pretty cool, man. It is. It's so awesome. 

Rick Green [00:03:20] Later in the program, we have Jack Hibbs and covering some of this IRS decision from the court or from the ruling, whatever the IRS, kind of the disclaimer, they said, hey, you know, pastors can endorse from the pulpit, only to their congregation, they can't endorse for anybody else. And we'll talk about that. But I am curious now in your city, you know, how are you going to enforce some of these things or are you gonna monitor, make sure you don't have these crazy far right wing. Christian nationalist people or is it like, no, we believe in the first amendment and freedom of speech. And so I just have a feeling that even though your town is going to be a very safe space, it's not going to a safe space for the reason the left calls it a safe space. It's more because of the embracing of the constitutional principles of second amendment other things. And bro, I'm so excited to be with you guys tomorrow. I think actually Um, we were talking about even maybe having some of the students on, to do radio with, with, hear from them a little bit, cause as, as we get so encouraged with hearing from the rising generation, maybe, maybe share some of that with our listeners tomorrow. So I'm pumped for tomorrow. Obviously we have Jack Hibbs coming up shortly, but I am very excited to be with you guys tomorrow and then through much of the week. 

Rick Green [00:04:38] Well, just so you know, you know how subtle we are, how I'm such a quiet, shy. 

Tim Barton [00:04:42] Yeah! 

Tim Barton [00:04:43] Reserved sort of guy 

Tim Barton [00:04:44] You never know what you're thinking. 

Rick Green [00:04:46] Yeah, I don't wear my religion on my sleeve or anything. So we, yesterday we raised the American flag for the first time. This huge 50 foot pole, you know, it's amazing. You know, big flag and had this awesome ceremony with the military out there. And it was all, it was, it, it cool. And, and we got a Texas flag on the way. We haven't raised that one yet, but we have a Christian flag that's even bigger, so it's going to be like an appeal to heaven. You know the whole appeal to have a thing in the book Dutch Sheets road. And I just love that flag because, you don't think about it guys. Part of the reason we did the city is because of government telling us what to do. And that appeal to heaven flag is that pine tree in Massachusetts where the King was taking all the best trees to make masks for his ships. And they're like, those aren't your trees, those are our trees. And the King's like, no, those are my trees. So I like that argument over who's trees are they? I'm going to hang we're going to do that flag just so that people can have that conversation. Then once in a while, we'll do a, you know, Constitution city flag or don't tread on me or. 

Tim Barton [00:05:37] Come and take it. 

Rick Green [00:05:38] Or one of the other. Yeah, there it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be fun. It's going to be fun, all right. So Jack Hibbs will be with us here in a few minutes and of course guys like you said it was a I forget how you said it Tim but not not necessarily a ruling from the courts but an agreed an agreed judgment basically so irs basically agreed in a lawsuit with nrb national religious broadcasters that like you say a pastor could actually endorse from the pulpit to their congregation 

David Barton [00:06:04] And by the way, to the congregation, that's kind of a wink and a nod kind of stuff. How big is your congregation? Who do you know it's in it since you do everything now on broadcast, social media, everything else that you have so many platforms, are you saying that only to the 187 people that are inside the building? Of course not. So it's a wink in a nod saying, yeah, the judges are right. We'll do it only to our congregation. Wink, wink, which is the whole United States. Now there's, there's just really no wave limit in who's in your congregation because what we have now. 

Tim Barton [00:06:35] Oh, and this is exactly guys why we wanted to talk to Jack about this,  because he has an incredible reach, actually has his own, network, but also his own now, platform, his own app, so much good stuff. And if there's somebody who was, willing to kind of put the finger in the eye of the IRS the whole time, someone who's had the courage and boldness, uh to lead in this respect, it's certainly been Jack. And so. We thought he is the perfect person to get on. Let's talk about this from a pastor's perspective. All of us have been very involved in the ministry, ordained ministers, all kinds of stuff, but obviously Pastor Jack Hibbs is someone who is, teaching and preaching from the word of God every single week and someone who definitely can speak to this issue from a pastoral perspective. 

Tim Barton [00:07:25] Pastor Jack Hibbs, one of the main guys in our Biblical Citizenship in Modern America course that you can get at wallbuilders.com today. Jack Hiebs, when we come back, you're listening to The WallBuilder Show. 

Rick Green [00:08:40] Welcome back, thanks for staying with us. Jack Hibbs back with us from Calvary Chapel in Chino Hills, California. Jack, great to have you brother. Good to see you again. 

Pastor Jack Hibbs [00:08:48] Thank you so much, brother. 

Rick Green [00:08:49] Hey man, this is a, this little IRS, I say little, it's huge. It's monumental, but to us it's little. Cause we've been saying this for years, right? That pastor should have their freedom of speech, freedom of religion, their voice in the pulpit. Of course you've never been held back by the IRS is paper tiger, but, how nice is that they finally admit it? 

Pastor Jack Hibbs [00:09:08] Well, you know what's great about this is that, Rick, for you, for myself, for a handful of others, we've been standing at the victory line for a very long time. What is nice about what's going on is that you and I had no special insight, right? We didn't have a crystal ball, so to speak. We had the Word of God and we've got it still. And so now for the government to catch up to not only our constitutional freedoms, but what even Trumps the constitutional freedoms is our biblical mandate. To preach the word and to educate our flocks regarding all things life. So it's great. 

Rick Green [00:09:45] You know, Jack, you always strike me as one of these guys that is maybe not 100% fearless, but man, you sure act like you're fearless, and that have not I commanded you, be strong and have a good courage, be not afraid either be that is made. You live that out, and a lot of pastors are afraid to speak up or afraid to talk to certain issues, I think maybe because they were lied to in seminary or wherever, but also just, oh, people might not come back next week. God has blessed you at your I mean your church is huge. It's massive and people come from all over and watch from all Over the world. Yeah, because you're preaching the word of God. They're attracted to an you know, just not watered down at all guy true gospel. Speak to that for a second and why you know this ruling is important, but we should want to do this anyway, even without this, not ruling, this agreed decision. 

Pastor Jack Hibbs [00:10:36] Yeah, absolutely. I think, Rick, the bottom line is this, for you and I, we understand and believe that the Word of God is exactly that. The Bible doesn't contain the Word God. It is the Word Of God. And so, that's where we derive our boldness. You rightly quoted a moment ago, Joshua, this is exactly what we are to do. And it's not that we're standing on our degrees, we're not standing on experiences. We're not standing on some some pat on the back by God's wonderful grace, He has provided us the everlasting, enduring gospel. And I stress enduring. I believe that the Christian has been Teflon coated, so to speak. And yet there's a qualifier. If we show up to the battle or the party, so to speak, with our biblical armor on, I believe he's going to do the rest. And so I've lived my life that way. I didn't have a church background upbringing. I thought I stumbled into a church one day and got saved. God knew what he was doing, but the word of God is all that I have, Rick. It's all that I have it's everything that I need. And so I don't need the government to tell me to do this, that, or the other. I take my marching orders from the word and look, Rick, we saw this very vividly exposed during the times of COVID, the redefinition of marriage, abortion, BLM the gender issue, and now it's Israel, and where do we get our answers from? You've got to get your answers from the Bible, or frankly, you don't really have any answers. And so I think this is a tremendous time, and it's an infusion from the Lord of encouragement, and that is stand in the Word. So yeah, absolutely, be standing on the Word, we can be fearless as long as we're on biblical doctrine. 

Rick Green [00:12:27] Amen. Amen. I, it's funny you mentioned the COVID thing. Cause bro, I remember, I mean, like it was yesterday, I remember having you on right at the beginning of all the nonsense. And you said, all the prayer, you said Rick, this is gonna separate the wheat from the shaft. You watch, we're gonna find out which pastors are actually getting their instructions and their guidance from God and from his word. And which ones are taking their cues from government. And man, that played out big time. And, and it was, again, it was you know, about a year later after that. We were, you and I were sitting at that hotel in Dallas filming for Biblical Citizenship, filming that interview with you, and you talked about how much, because y'all didn't listen to the government and stay closed and all of that, people were coming from all over because of the churches that had closed because of government and stay close, and let Gavin Newsom tell them they couldn't meet. You know, I'm hoping this, though, will get a lot of those pastors and churches off the fence that we're using this as an excuse, you know, and saying, well, because of this. Do you think that'll help? Because there are pastors out there, and you train a lot pastors, you speak at a lot pastor's conferences. I mean, there are a lot them that are just misinformed and can be infused with some boldness. And if they get better information, we'll speak to that part. Because there's a lot of Frederick Augustus Meulenbergs out there that. Are the brothers saying, hey, don't get involved, don't be involved, and then he got so involved, he was first speaker of the House and of the Constitution. Let's find those pastors. What do we do to get them involved more? 

Pastor Jack Hibbs [00:13:58] Yes, so well said. Number one, for you and I to just stay on the straight and narrow. In other words, lay it down and inform brothers and sisters regarding this opportunity that's been provided to us here that's being discussed. Having said that, there are going to be those, Rick, that you know. Nothing's going to budge them out of the area of them being fearful and cowardice. They may have bought their position, they may have followed in the footsteps of some maybe dad or grandpa that was a preacher. And I want to do that too. Listen, as nice as that sounds, that can't be it. You've got to be called to it and know you're calling. And if you know you are calling, these are the men that you and I want to reach who are misinformed, they've been beaten up. And when you tell them, listen, not only does the Bible command us to preach the word in season and out, but now we've got this opportunity. Will you seize it? Join us. We'll show you how we will pray you through, let's do this. And there's gonna be those, Rick, who now have to find a new excuse, but there's going to be those who are going to say, wow, I didn't know that. And they're gonna come out of the darkness, as it were, that you can, they'll see the fog lift from their heart and they'll be, I hope, I'm praying you are too, that their pulpits will catch fire with the zeal and passion of that freedom. And, you know, I don't need to instruct you on this. You instruct everybody else on it. It was the pulpit of early America that was the, so to speak, internet of the day. It was a newspaper of the day. It was The epicenter of the day. The pulpit, the church of from Philadelphia to Boston. It was at the place of keeping the body of Christ informed of current events through a biblical worldview lens. It doesn't get better than that. 

Rick Green [00:15:50] Amen. Amen. And that's, that's coming back. I truly believe that there's so many that have awakened and the pulpits are once again, becoming a flame with righteousness. Hey, before I let you go, Jack, catch us up on real life network and what's going on over there. You've got so many things going on. I know you, you're like David and Tim and me. I mean, we're all running so many different directions. I don't know how you had time to put this together, but you've got a lot of great programming there. How can people be a part of that? 

Pastor Jack Hibbs [00:16:13] Yeah, number one, it's go to your app provider on your device, either your smart TV or on your device and download the app. Here's the reason why it's absolutely free, absolutely free. And here's the best part. God provided so much during COVID that what happened was born out of COVID was this desire of ours to create a network that's cancel proof because we were getting canceled all over the world during COVID. So we created the real life network. And Rick, here's what's fun. It's free for those who download it to their device, and it's free for all broadcasters, God provided for us an engine that funds it. And even the broadcaster is paying nothing. And so it is truly a faith-based operation, bringing you biblically based material, Bible teaching, and character building programming 24-7-365. And we've just celebrated our two-year birthday, Rick, and we're the fastest growing downloadable network. So we're competing. I mean, we're on a small scale right now, but just like Hulu or just like Netflix, it's the same platform and God has blessed it. It is just taken off and we cannot be more happy about it. So please everybody get it for free. The price is right and the information I've had done information personally, I'd literally vet every program because I want it to be something that is no baloney, biblically based, good for your soul. 

Rick Green [00:17:41] Oh, that's good. Good stuff. The gospel will not be censored. As you say right there on the, on the website and it's good entertainment. So it's a good teaching and good entertainment as well. And,  just a lot of good options on their reallifenetwork.com is a website to go see that and you can download it for Apple or on your Android device as well, Jack Hibbs love you, brother. Always good to catch up with you, man. Wanted to celebrate this decision and we'll get a lot of pastor speaking out now. 

Pastor Jack Hibbs [00:18:07] Let's do it! God bless you, Rick.

Rick Green [00:18:08]  Stay with us folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:19:18] Welcome back to The Wallbuilders show. Thanks for staying with us. Appreciate Jack Hibbs joining us. And, uh, just like you said a couple of weeks ago, Tim, he said, he almost said the same thing you said, a couple weeks ago when we first talked about this, that, you know, okay, great, this is good, but if a pastor was being wimpy before, I know I shouldn't be that disparaging, if a pastor was unwilling to speak out on those things before, then this is probably not going to push them over the edge, but maybe for the congregation, not the congregationalist, what's the right word, the congregation for the parishion or maybe they are the ones that go, wait a minute, pastor, you can't use that excuse anymore. And maybe they are the ones that take a different action and go find a new pastor that will. 

Tim Barton [00:19:55] Well, and one of the things he talked about too is that he does believe that people's eyes are going to be opened, that there is going to be a shift, but I do think that shift again, kind of like we've already acknowledged, I think the shift happens because God is working on the hearts and minds of people. And as, as their eyes are open, and Rick, I love, you know, the, the Frederick Augustus, Muhlenberg analogy in parallel, cause I think it's, it's very accurate and for those that don't know, you need to go back and review the history, you can go to wallbuilders.com, and probably there's things on Patriot Academy as well, telling the story of John Peter Gabriel Muhlenburg. He was a pastor, but he got involved very early in the revolution, 1776, uh January, uh he's the one that goes back to his home church. He gets up and delivers a sermon from Ecclesiastes where he talks where there's nothing new under the sun. He gets to verse eight, chapter three, there's a time for war and a time of peace. He tells them the British have just come into Virginia, that they have attacked in Williamsburg, taken all the guns and gunpowder away, and Washington is calling for troops, for militias to come together, and he tells his church that I'm gonna lead this thing. He takes off his robe. He is wearing the uniform of Continental Army officer. As he walks to the back of the church, he tells them that, brethren, we came. To this land to enjoy freedom but if we don't get involved in fight to defend freedom or lose everything we came here to enjoy i am going to fight is gonna go with me they became the eighth virginian brigade i frederick his brother up in new york heard what john peter in virginia and done and it was. Kind of incense by you shouldn't be doing that it's not so what pastor should be doing and. John and Frederick have a couple of letters, exchanges back and forth, but they just disagree. And ultimately, uh, Frederick says, you guys are a bunch of hotheads. It's not what you should be doing, but in the next year, the next summer, the British come into New York city, which is where Frederick was. And when they come to New York City, they, there were 19 churches in town. They burned 10 to the ground. They destroy and desecrate the other nine. Frederick watched as they set fire to his church. And it was at that point, he had the epiphany, he gets involved. He moved back to Pennsylvania, becomes the Speaker of the House of Pennsylvania. Then when you have the first Congress that he's elected to be a member of the first Congress with his brother, John Peter and Frederick, they're both members of the first congress, but Frederick Augustus Mulemberg was chosen to be the very first ever speaker of the house. He is one of only two signatures that appear on the actual bill of rights. And so he gets very, very involved in kind of back at this point. We do think there's going to be pastors whose eyes are open, maybe like a Frederick who early on was like, guys, don't do that. That's wrong. But maybe that there's a heart change of mind change. And I think if there is a heart and mind change that there very well could be some people that, look at this ruling and go, hey, well, the IRS even says we can do this, but I don't think this ruling is what's going to change the heart and mind. I think only God will change the heart and my mind, but if their heart and mind has changed, I think this rolling might help further and bolden them once their mind is already changed. 

David Barton [00:22:53] You know one thing that stands out to me is looking back at this debate that's gone on since 1954 to some degree. This should not be any kind of a problem for Christians who know the Bible. The scripture says in Proverbs 28:1 that the righteous are bold as a lion. So what do we know about righteous? They're bold. How bold? Bold as a Lion. So if you've got a pastor who is not bold and not willing to speak out, particularly after what we've seen the last ten years. Government on so many things that the Bible is clear about, I kind of question how righteous they are. Maybe they think they are, but you judge a tree by its fruits, and Bible is really clear that boldness goes with righteousness, and your boldness aligns. So I don't know if this is going to make much difference. I just don't expect it to make much difference. We'll see. 

Tim Barton [00:23:39] And dad, I know you have more verses. I do want to add to your thought as, as you're explaining this, that when you're saying that they should be bold in these biblical issues, we're not even talking about endorsing a political candidate right now. You should be bald on issues of life. You should bold on issues of gender. You should be bold on these sex change operations on minors, things that should be incredibly clear as believers. So we're not even talk about endorses candidates, which is what the IRS decision, their position they released was. And I'm saying that to give a caveat for people to understand, you're not even at this point calling on pastors to talk about political leaders, even at this point by name, which they can and maybe they should. But this is literally on the issues where the Bible is incredibly clear and pastors have not had the boldness to speak out on those issues. 

David Barton [00:24:26] And if you take that one step further, I should be able to say, hey, candidate A and B, look at them on the issue of life, on the issues of sexuality, on the issued of gender. Candidate A over here thinks that you should have gender mutilation for young children. And candidate B thinks you should not have. There's no way you can stand behind candidate A and expect to be right before God in supporting someone who does everything the Bible says not to do. And that's just, that's an easy step to make. And it's not like I'm endorsing a candidate, I'm in Dorsen positions. And you know, I don't say I'm endorsing this guy because I like his name better or because he's a Republican or Democrat. You do this on biblical positions. But the other thing I find interesting is I cannot find a single example in the Bible of where you look at something like this and a true believer refrain from speaking out on anything because of civil leaders. Now even go to Acts 3 where John and Peter called for civil leaders and said, don't save that anymore. And they said, Hey, that's the only thing we can do is keep saying it. And so they got beat and they were released and it's just, it's never been acceptable in Christianity to let the government tell you what you can and can't talk about from the Christian perspective. And so I think this is a really good deal because now we'll see if the emperor's got any clothes or not. It's all over and done. There's no legal reason not to do this. If you don't do it now, it is because that's your own personal convictions and you lack the boldness to speak out on these things. 

Tim Barton [00:25:49] And, dad, I would again reiterate that what you're explaining and calling and challenging pastors to do is teach what the Bible says. This is not about endorsing a candidate. This is about promoting biblical issues. And if there are candidates, in this case, that maybe directly oppose biblical issues or don't support any of what the bible says, it should be a no-brainer. But ultimately, pastors should have the courage and boldness to teach what the word of God says, to stand up for what the word of God says. What Jesus told the disciples is you will know the truth and the truth will set you free or make you free. And if we're not standing up teaching and promoting defending the truth people won't be set free and that's what pastor should be helping do 

Rick Green [00:26:29] All right folks, we're out of time for today. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks to Jack Hibbs for joining us. Thank you to constitution coach, super coach, Colleen Woodward for bringing me popcorn, which I may or may not share with Tim when he gets here tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the WallBuilder show.