Rick Green [00:00:12] Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and the Culture, it's WallBuilders Live and we're talking about today's hottest topics on policy, faith and the culture, always from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Today we are going to find the conclusion of a three-part series on Independence Day. It's a television special, actually, that David and Tim Barton did for TBN, and you can actually watch it online. We'll have links today at wallbuilderslive.com, or you can listen. We're bringing it to our Wallbuilders listeners as a special this week. But if you're just tuning in and haven't listened all week then you can go to wallbalderslive.com right now and in the archive section, yesterday's program and the day before it's a three-part series on this Independence Day special, it's David and Tim Barton. You don't want to miss it. A lot of great information. It's going to equip and inspire you excited about being free and sharing with your friends and family. Some of these great stories from our history to remind them the price of freedom and encourage them to do their part to help continue that freedom. And it's been a fantastic week. We're going to jump right back in where we left off yesterday. Here's David and Tim Barton about Independence Day. 

David Barton [00:01:14] Well, the other founding fathers said that Sam Adams was the most openly Christian of all the founding fathers. I mean, he wore it on his sleeve, literally. He was what today we would call an evangelical, and people know that he was the beer guy, but they don't know about his faith. 

Tim Barton [00:01:28] Although it's very evident when you see their writings. 

David Barton [00:01:31] Yeah, another guy that's really key among the founding father's is this one. This is Charles Carroll of Carrollton. Now, interesting, he signs the declaration, Charles Carroll, of Carrollton. And that's because there were nine Charles Carrolls living at the time in his area. So he's the one from Carrollton, and that's the town and area and that is his place. And this is one of the documents from him. Mr. Charles Carroll of Carrollton to the trustees of the Catholic Cathedral Church. He's the only Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independence. Now, this actually is, he's renting his pew. One of the ways you helped fund the church back then was not only in tithes, And today we have customs, if you go to church much, you know where people generally sit. Well, back then you actually kind of bought the seat where you sat. 

Tim Barton [00:02:17] Literally that is my eat, I paid for that seat, leave.

David Barton [00:02:21] So that's one of the ways they fund it. So this is for three months, pew rental for a particular pew. But back then, we often again hear the narrative today that, there was so much bigotry back then and they were anti-Catholic. The anti-catholic sentiment was really because these guys will be against what we're trying to do by giving people the freedom to choose their leaders. Well, he certainly wasn't. He's a guy who signed the Declaration of Independence, who stood up against the king. And so he kind of broke the barriers and they said, oh, look, there is a Catholic that is a pro-Republican Catholic. They want elect a government. And so by the time we get to the Constitution, we have more Catholics actually signing the Constitution. So he kind of breaks through some things and he lives to be really old. He died at the age of 95. Now, age of 95 is not that impressive today, but you need to know that the average lifespan back when they signed the declaration was 33 years old. So he lives be 95. And it's interesting that, you know, he kind of outlives his kids and grandkids and late in life, they're kind of talking to him and said, Charles, you're gonna die someday. And when you do die, are you ready to meet God? Which is a good question. This is his answer. This is a letter, Charles Carroll. This is 1825, which makes him 89 years old at the time. And am I ready to met God? And he says, of course I am. He says, on the mercy of my Redeemer, I rely for salvation. And on his merits, not on any works I've done in obedience to his precepts. That's Ephesians 2, 8, 9, by grace are you saved through faith. And it's interesting, he was the wealthiest guy in America. I mean, he, hands down, wealthier than John Hancock. Interesting to see what he did with his wealth. He lived in a rural part of Maryland where they didn't have a lot of people. So you didn't enough ties to be able to have preachers all the time at the churches. So he took his wealth and he endowed a church there, permanently endowed the church and permanently endow a preacher so that you would have a preacher to preach the gospel even when there's not enough people to be be able afford to get a preacher in. So he put his money into the gospel stuff as well. Again, great guy, great founding father.

Tim Barton [00:04:33]  And certainly another one of those guys who kind of breaks that religious narrative that the Founding Fathers weren't people of faith. And one of the guys who certainly was a man of faith at the time of the Foundings Fathers, he was probably one of the most significant Founding fathers, at least according to John Adams. John Adams said that this Founding father was one of three most notable. He said the three most notable were George Washington. Benjamin Franklin and this guy right here, Dr. Benjamin Rush. Now today, Dr. Benjaman Rush is not a name that probably any American can tell you very much about, unless they've specifically studied the signers of the declaration and then they know his name. But he actually served on three different presidential administrations. He was director of the US mint. He started five universities. Three of them still go today. He actually was known as the father of public schools under the constitution. He was the father of American medicine. He came up with medical cures over 200 years ago that are still in use today. He was a very significant founding father, but today we just know so little about him

David Barton [00:05:32] He is a strong Christian founding father. In every sense of the word, he would be evangelical. Benjamin Rush is from Pennsylvania. Now, Pennsylvania is largely a Quaker state. And so in 1774, they passed a law that said, we're anti-slavery. Well, the king vetoed that law as well. And so when the king, vetoed the law, he said, look, guys, you're part of the British Empire. You can't end slavery. That's when Benjamin Rush and Benjamin Franklin said, let's not be part of the British empire anymore. We want to end slavery. This actually is really an act of civil disobedience. This is the constitution for the first abolition society ever founded in America. Goes back to 1774. We're still British colony, but these guys are saying. We're not doing this. Now, Benjamin Rush not only helps found the society with Ben Franklin, he goes on to become the leader of the national abolition movement. They started abolition societies all over the United States, states everywhere, they want slavery ended. So Benjamin Rush is a huge anti-slavery guy. He's also a guy who, like many founding fathers back then, would read through the Bible once every year, go through from cover to cover. And this happens to be his notes that he kept as he would read to the Bible and the Lord would show him things out of the scriptures. He would make these notes and write down verses, and it's on various topics. So he's got verses that deal with animals, and he's verses that deals with salvation and the efficacy of prayer and forgiveness. And so he's, I mean, he just is in the Word all the time. And because he's in the Word all the time, he wants everybody else to have the Word, so he's the founder of the Sunday School Movement. This is a newspaper from 1791, and it talks about the new Sunday School movement, and Benjamin Rush is one of the guys running the Sunday school movement, but he still wants that Word of God out there for everybody, so another way to do it is, like John Witherspoon wanted the Bible in the hands of everybody in New Jersey. Benjamin Rush said, let's just create a society that can give Bibles to everybody. And that's the constitution for the very first Bible society ever started in America. And it's Benjamin Rush who has written the address there for all the people. And then in looking for a way to make sure that they could get Bibles, he came up with a new way to print Bibles called stereotype printing, kind of mass production. That's the first mass-produced Bible done in the United States. It's done, again, with Benjamin Rush's Bible Society. So really cool stuff he did in trying to propagate faith throughout the United states. 

Tim Barton [00:08:06] Well, one of the essays he wrote is this essay right here, it's called A Defense of the Use of the Bible in Schools. And you can guess from the title exactly what he's talking about. It was why we need the Bible and schools. Actually in this essay, he gave a dozen or so reasons why the Bible was a necessity for the next generation. In fact, he warned that if we remove the Bible, we would spend time and money punishing crimes that we could have prevented had we instructed young people in morals. In fact he goes on to write several essays and a lot of them deal with education. And this is a book of his essays. So in this, he talks a lot about the Bible and in various other topics. But when he talks about the bible, one of the things he says is that in America, he says the only useful education has to be laid in religion, specifically the Bible. Because without religion, there can be no virtue. Without virtue, there be no liberty. And liberty is the object of our government. The point he makes is that we want to be free as Americans, but freedom only works if we have virtue or morality. But you only have virtue and morality if you go back to the Bible. And so he says, without the Bible... America will never be a free nation, but if we will teach the Bible, we can always enjoy freedom. And this is one of the things that's fun looking back on these guys, when you start to see their stories and get beyond just the generalization of, well, those were those old guys or, you know, whatever the generalizations are. When you actually start studying their stories, you see not only were these real people who actually dealt with real things in their life, the vast majority of them were so pro-God, so pro faith, knew we need the Bible in America and knew that ultimately the Bible is the basis of freedom. 

Tim Barton [00:10:57] Do you know anything about their faith? 

Speaker [00:11:00] No. 

Tim Barton [00:11:01] No? Do you know anything about their faith? Oh, um... Like, did they believe in God? Because we hear a lot today there are atheists, agnostics and deists. So what do you... Do you anything about their faith. 

Speaker [00:11:15] I would, no I don't, but I would guess, I would guess Presbyterian or Episcopalian is what I would know. 

Tim Barton [00:11:21] There were a lot of them wereOkay. So that and actually that probably we could say even the majority of them were. What do you know about their faith? 

Speaker [00:11:28] Well the Quakers, Quakers are pretty big and involved, right? 

Tim Barton [00:11:30] There were some Quakers. So Stephen Hopkinson was a Quaker, he was a governor actually. 

Speaker [00:11:33] And the Puritans, obviously, right? 

Tim Barton [00:11:35] The Puritans were, yep, they're ancestors. 

Speaker [00:11:37]  were in Maryland, but, uh... 

Tim Barton [00:11:40] So do you think some of the Founding Fathers were people of faith? Would you then, would we make that deduction? 

Speaker [00:11:46] Uh, one nation Under God, so yeah, right? 

Tim Barton [00:11:59] Okay, we're talking about the Declaration of Independence, specifically the 4th of July, the signing of the Declaration, things associated as we celebrate. And as we look at Independence, a lot of people don't know a lot of the Founding Fathers. In fact, when I have the chance to speak in schools or colleges, I'll show a picture of the signers of the declaration and we'll say, okay, who can you name? And generally there's two names that stand out above all the others, and that's Benjamin Franklin and it's Thomas Jefferson. And generally we recognize them because they're known as kind of the least religious founding fathers. It's the way they're painted. But even for being the least religious founding father, they really weren't ants. 

David Barton [00:12:35] It's anti-religious. No, take Jefferson, for example. It's Jefferson, undeniably, I don't dispute, he's one of the least religious founding fathers, but least is a comparative term. Least is compared to what? I mean, if you have a room of preachers together, one of them is the least-religious, that doesn't mean he's anti religious. And so Jefferson, if take Jefferson and say, okay, let's just look at public actions that he did. For example, while he's in office, in federal office, under George Washington's a great example. When he's under George Washington and they're building the Capitol, Jefferson, a secretary of the state, starts church services at the building of the Capitol so that on Sunday, you're actually, government folks are going to church where they're build the Capitol. Well, he then gets elected to be vice president under John Adams, and when he becomes president, he does an interesting practice if he goes to church for eight years to the church at the Capitol that he helped start when he was vice president. So as vice president, they take every Sunday and they take the hall of the House of Representatives in Congress and turn it into a church building. And that's where Jefferson went to church for eight years. And so Jefferson helped start church there. Well, when he becomes president, he also starts Sunday church services at the War Department, at the Navy Yard, at the Treasury. Now imagine this, you wanna go to church in Washington, D.C., do I wanna go the Capitol, do I want to go to the War department, do I, Jefferson's the one who starts churches in the government buildings? 

Tim Barton [00:13:58] Isn't he the guy that wrote a letter about the separation of church and states? 

David Barton [00:14:03] Yeah, but nobody reads that letter anymore. 

Tim Barton [00:14:05] I think we've misunderstood what he meant. 

David Barton [00:14:07] If we read the letter, we would see that separation church and state means the government can't stop a religious activity. 

Tim Barton [00:14:14] Or can't compel you to a certain denomination, right? It can't compare you and say, you have to be Catholic, you have be Anglican, you to be Baptist or Episcopal, but it also can't stop you from your religious activity is how the First Amendment reads. When you look at the declaration, the declaration was written by a 33-year-old man, which, so if you're younger, that might not seem impressive. If you're older, that's more impressive, right. A 33- year-old is where Jefferson is when he goes into Congress. He's the one on the Committee of Five largely responsible for drafting the Declaration of Independence. And in it, he put a lot of unique thoughts and ideas that were not common practice of the time where he says that all men are created equal. Well, under the king, under a monarch, that's not a common belief. But he said these are self-evident truths. Well, they're only self-event truths if you know what the Bible teaches, right? That we are all God's kids and therefore we've all been created equal in God's sight. Even though the world and culture Jefferson lived in largely didn't recognize that. I mean, Jefferson is just not the guy we often hear and think about. 

David Barton [00:16:30] Faith was a part of so many of these guys. I find it interesting. There is a set of books here. This is from 1825, and it's the writings of Richard Henry Lee. Now, Richard Henry Leigh is this guy right here that on the 7th of June, he's the guy who said, Let's separate from Great Britain. Let's not be British calling anymore. He makes the official congressional motion, we're separated from Great British. And so, and it's interesting because at that time, several things happen. One is Congress calls for a time of prayer. And by the way, Congress often called us to times of prayer, these happen to be national calls to prayer from the Continental Congress. So the Congress is calling the people to prayer. This is one, here is another, with Congress calling people. Congress called the nation to prayer 15 different times in the American Revolution. We have all these guys together working, and their faith is very evident. And then Richard Henry Lee says, let's just go ahead and separate and be a separate nation. And at that point, Congress says, okay, let us back away from this a little bit. If we're going to write a declaration, let's get together what we're gonna say to the world so they get that prepared. And it's interesting that we voted to separate eventually and declaration came out. But years later, the letters of Richard Henry Lee were collected by the grandson. And the grandson has all of granddad's letters and he brings it out in this two-volume set. This is from 1825. And in reading the letters of Richard Henry Lee, he's reading letters from Richard Henry Lee to Washington, to Jefferson, to Benjamin Rush, to John Adams, to Francis Hopkinson. And after he's gone through so many of the letters of the founding fathers, I want you to hear what the grandson concludes in having gone through all these letters. He says, the wise and great men of those days, all these founding fathers. The wise and men of great those days were not ashamed to confess the name of our blessed Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, in behalf of the people, as their representatives and rulers, they acknowledge the sublime doctrine of His mediation. When I read all the writings of the founding fathers, man, are these guys Jesus guys. They, on behalf of the entire nation, they talked about Jesus. So on 4th of July, which where we are now, we celebrate Independence Day. We celebrate the principles and the declaration. And how do you do that? How's the best way to celebrate and really to take responsibility for preserving those principles, it's interesting. That was the discussion that happened 200 years ago. When they approved the Declaration of Independence, John Adams wrote his wife Abigail two letters. Here are letters from John Adams to Abigail. And what happened on the day they did this, he was thinking ahead, how will future generations see what we just did today? And he starts predicting that, I think they're gonna wanna celebrate what we did today. Now here we are 200 and something years later, we celebrate what they did. But back then on the date they did it, He's saying. I think future generations will want to celebrate this, and so listen to what he told his wife Abigail about how to celebrate his Independence Day. He says, I'm apt to believe that this day will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. He was right. He was a prophet. That's what we do now. He said this day ought to be commemorated. He said it ought to solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows and games and sports and guns and bells and bonfires and illuminations from one end of this continent to the other from this time forward forevermore. Make a big deal out of this. Fireworks, everything. Listen to this. He said, this day ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. The way you ought to celebrate the 4th of July is as a religious holiday, a day of devotion God Almighty,. 

Tim Barton [00:20:27] Well, still, right? We celebrate, we have... At the barbecue, maybe we go to the lake, we do fireworks, we celebrate. But ultimately, not only do we celebrate freedom, the way to appreciate and enjoy freedom, he says, make sure we thank God for the fact that we have freedom. Living in arguably the freest nation on earth, certainly one of the freiest nations in the history of the world, that ought to be something every 4th of July, not only to we shoot off fireworks, we go, Lord, thank you, that you've allowed me to be in a place where I have freedom. 

David Barton [00:20:55] Now that was 1776. Here's a 4th of July oration given in 1837. So now we're 61 years later. And this is given by John Quincy Adams, the son of John Adams. So now 61 years, how do we celebrate the 4th July? And what's the big deal about the 4th of July. 

David Barton [00:23:29] This is what John Quincy Adams says. Is it not that in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation, Fourth of July, is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? Fourth of the July and Christmas go together? He says it forms a leading event in the progress of the gospel dispensation. Is it that the declaration of independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission on earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government on the first precepts of Christianity. He says the 4th of July took what Jesus did on his birth and we've now brought it to America. So the principles that Jesus brought in the world is what the 4 of July brought to America, they saw the 4 July is one of our top two religious holidays in America. That's a good thing to remember on the 4 th of July. In the midst of everything else we do on the, 

Tim Barton [00:24:22] of July. One thing we ought to remember is what the founding fathers pointed to. John Adams says that we ought to be celebrating this as a day of deliverance, almost like when Moses leads the Israelites out, right? What do we do? We're gonna stop and thank God that we now get to enjoy something not everybody in history has enjoyed. We're enjoying freedom. And so we on 4th of July say, God, thank you for freedom. As we celebrate Independence Day. Just like John Adams at the end of his life, he was able to raise a glass and offer a toast, I would suggest that as we celebrate Independence day, that maybe it would be appropriate for us to raise the glass and toast independence forever. 

David Barton [00:25:11] Today, we've uncovered the individual and very personal stories of several signers of the Declaration of Independence. We discovered they were honorable men who sacrificed their fortunes, their families, their homes, and even their lives to secure for every one of us the freedoms we now enjoy and so often take for granted. But what we've seen and heard only scratches the surface. For more information about any of today's topics, or to get resources you can personally study for yourself, go to our website, wallbuilders.com. Or go to the App Store and download the WallBuilders app. You can also like us on Facebook, or go our YouTube channel and other social media. And be sure to stay tuned to TBN for more exciting chapters in America's Hidden History. 

Rick Green [00:26:02] All right, friends, we are out of time today. Thankfully, we got the conclusion. We got to do some great programming this week. So what you just heard, what we were just listening to was David and Tim Barton and their Independence Day special that they did for TBN. We've got that available on our website today at wallbuilderslive.com so that you can listen to the entire program if you happen to miss yesterday or the day before, maybe you tuned in in the middle of the program today. So that entire special is available right now at wallbuilderslive.com and be sure and visit our website today at wallboulderslive.com. God bless you and thanks for listening to WallBuilders Live