Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to The WallBuilders Show, time to kick off the week. Our Monday program here, where we take on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Our websites, wallbuilders.com and wallbuilders.show .show for the radio program, if you want to catch up on some of the programs you might have missed. And then wallbuilds.com for all of our programming in terms of conferences that we do, we've got the teachers' conferences coming up this summer, the youth conferences coming this summer. Our legislators' conference in the fall, pastors' conferences. In DC, lots of great stuff there. So check all of that out at wallbuilders.com. David and Tim Barton are here. I'm Rick Green, and we're gonna have a special guest later in the program talking about his new book on basically the scientific approach to studying creation. And guys, we talk a lot about just being able to articulate truth and being able to win people over. And essentially, as we're told in the New Testament, be ready to answer. So today's program is going to be that but specifically with regard to the creation and with regard 

David Barton [00:01:09] science. Yeah it's a really interesting topic and and I think about this the creation topic from a much broader standpoint of even apologetics because the things that we try to promote a biblical constitutional historical perspective if you go back to that Romans 1:20 says there is absolutely nothing that can't be seen through what he's created so that everybody's without excuse if you never had anybody talk to you about the Lord you still got no excuse. Everything that can be done about God is revealed through what he's created. And I think about that in terms of how secular science has become today, particularly at the university level, man, you try to do anything, religious science, and we've seen all these lawsuits going,  you know, whether it be a COVID or anything else, when you try to bring religion into it, people just go ballistic. And I was just thinking, and, and I kind of wrote down a list of some pretty famous science people and every one of these guys based. Their scientific work and their writings on what they discovered through creation and the scriptures. And so I was thinking, what would science be like if we took these guys and their work out? Because all these secular folks were allowing science, but where would they be without the work of the creation guys who actually write on the Bible? So just a couple of, there's, I don't know, I wrote down several, but if you take Copernicus, so that's the. Solar system concept where it doesn't revolve around the earth, it revolves around the sun. And then Francis Bacon is the father of modern science. He came up with a scientific method that we still use today. Johannes Kepler with light and force and planetary motion. And Robert Boyle, Boyle's laws of gasses. Isaac Newton, father of physics, the laws of motion, gravity. I mean, just go down these guys. Every one of these guys, every one of those old scientists did his work based on biblical teachings and beliefs and what they read in the scriptures and what the saw in creation didn't ever contradict the scriptures but it helped explain the scriptures or gave illustrations of it. And so I've just been really taken recently with, even in Texas, as we were in some committees testifying, I was listening to some education bills that were testifying on. And the huge emphasis that we have today on what they call STEM, and that's science and technology and engineering and mathematics and all of that, but it's such a secular viewpoint. And this really is a new era in America. The last three or four generations to have secular science is just, that would never have happened in previous generations. And so I've just been thinking about that and how much we actually miss by having science. And then what really got me going was thinking about Canada. And Europe and what they're doing with science over there. And just this weekend, I was with the treasurer of Utah and some of their legislators, Marla Oaks. And they were the first that did ESG, the first law that came through with ESG and then Florida. And ESG is based on absolute secular science that's pure nonsense. And because they have a secular view, they want to take freedoms away from individuals. Because they have a secular viewpoint. We're talking about lands out in the West. They want to take lands away from people so that the government can protect you because they this secular viewpoint that all of our resources are perishable and there's only a limited quantity instead of unlimited resources, which is what the Bible teaches and so many people believe. So I'm just thinking, how different would our culture be today if we still had a kind of a Christian worldview, a biblical worldview, a even traditional American worldview towards science? And how that it is the revelation of God rather than something secular that we add on. So it's gonna be a fun interview. 

Rick Green [00:05:03] You pick such insignificant, unknown guys, you know, like Isaac Newton and, and, I mean, all of the biggest names in science. How did, how did we actually go from that to being so secular? Like that should, those were still the, the laws of science and the, and the processes and the names that, that people study and that the scientists study and the schools have to teach. So did they just sort of like what the founding fathers, they just left out the faith element, they'd just stop teaching anything about that person's history or the things they actually said. About how they discovered this in creation. 

David Barton [00:05:35] Well, I mean, go back to why is it the people in China don't just rise up against their leaders and overthrow them because they've never experienced freedom. They only know what they've grown up in. Why is it that people under Sharia law don't just rebel against their leadership and say, this is oppression. This is tyranny because they have never lived under anything else. What we've done is we've gone through, and if you recall back into the 1925 era, where that the scopes monkey trial. Uh... We'd we reach the point at that point in time where they're laughing at people who believe that the world is created and that we did not evolve from monkeys so that goes to a a legal and most people they think that that was a trial and we lost the trial we actually won the trial the court said no no no we're keeping creation this is what the laws is what our history is this is where our documents are based on the creator But what happened is people today think that that was a lost trial, that God lost in that trial because the way the media and textbooks have portrayed it. And so all they've known is that, all the really smart people going back to Scopes and going back the Darwin, all the real intelligent people, man, they never bought this God stuff. And that is such a mis-portrayal of history for literally for millennia, for the 6,000 years we've been around and there's records of some type. I mean, it's been God-centered. And to arrive at where we are today where that even Christians today don't really know the basis of why they believe what they believe about science. And that's where I go back to Romans 1. Every single thing you can know about God, He has revealed through what He's created. So if you study His creation, you know, I don't want to say that's like studying the Bible because you need to study the Bible. But if you studied creation, that is a way to help explain what you see in the Bible very often. 

Tim Barton [00:07:20] Well, I think it's a reflection too, that we not only are very poorly educated as Americans, but we are very well indoctrinated as Americans. I was thinking about it as you were saying, you know, the things that we don't know that we should know. And I thought, man, we're just not well educated. And I though, well, no, we really are well educated, but what we've been educated in is not a deep understanding of content, materials, subjects, individuals. It's in the propaganda, the indoctrination. To the extent, that if you look, we've mentioned Newton several times, I think it was earlier this year, we got a book from Isaac Newton where he was covering the prophecies of Daniel and of the Apostle John. It's this massive book where he goes through saying, well, here's the things we should be thinking about from what we see in the book of Daniel, what we in Revelation, the end of the Bible. This is Isaac Newton covering this. You know, that would be something we might hear from a pastor today. And then there'd be those in the church and the faith that would say, ah, it's just a crazy person talking about these prophecies and, you know, end times and whatever else. No, this was Isaac Newton. And I think because we've been so poorly educated in knowing who they were, we don't know the depth of their thinking that so informed what they were doing. And I don't think it's this similar when we look at the founding fathers. A guy like, for example, George Washington, people call him a deist, but Benjamin Rush, who virtually nobody talks about, there's no way anybody, anybody could look at Benjamin Rush and say, you know what? I'm pretty sure he was a deists. He didn't believe in God. Why? Because he was so explicit in his writings. But if you don't talk about his writings, if you study him, then you'll never know. And so the fact that, and by the way, George, Washington, we would not argue all was a deist. We think he absolutely was a Christian. Based on some of his own writings, but certainly everybody that knew him that talked about his activity, his behavior, he was a Christian. But when you only know the tertiary levels and when the only people we study or highlight are people that might not be as explicitly faith centered, when you look, for example, like George Washington Carver, if you go to, dad, what is the museum? Is it in Missouri? Where is that museum? 

David Barton [00:09:33] Yeah, his his home and Carver's home in Missouri. Yes 

Tim Barton [00:09:36] So if you go to that home, just as an example, the park rangers there will talk about how he clearly was a Christian open on his faith because you can't read a single one of his writings and not have him talking about his It was so obvious and evident, but the problem is, even though he's the guy that transforms agriculture in the South, he's, he is the guy that comes up with all these inventions for the peanut and the sweet potato and just incredible things. We don't study and know his story. It's similar with science. That we study and learn far more from Darwin than we do from these other individuals who certainly were grounded in faith. But fortunately, there are people even from the medical arena who are coming back to try to recover some of this untold history or really untold and very different and contrary to the modern telling of science. 

Rick Green [00:10:30] Well, and, and you know, God's raising up some incredible people to articulate these things and sometimes they come, you know unexpected, our guests today did not plan to get into something like this, but just realized the need to be able to answer some of these questions about science and to take an approach to creation and, uh, that was scientific. So William West is our special guest. He's actually a medical doctor, Harvard educated, John Hopkins school of medicine, you, you just an incredible career and he's going to tell us story about how he This just became something that was so important to him that he wrote this book and it's called Sacred Science, Understanding Divine Creation, Dr. William West. Our special guest will return right here on WallBuilders. 

Rick Green [00:12:17] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Dr. William West is with us, new book, Sacred Science, Understanding Divine Creation. Dr. West, thanks for coming on, sir. 

Dr. William West [00:12:26] Thank you for invite me. 

Rick Green [00:12:27] You know most people today even in the Christian community... They think that science conflicts with the Bible or they think they're afraid to have this discussion right there they're worried that Christians will look silly ... Because we haven't served God with all our mind thank you thank you for serving God with your mind and .. For bringing out this great book and for addressing these issues 

Dr. William West [00:12:48] It was a real opportunity for me to learn quite a bit myself. 

Rick Green [00:12:53] Well that's the way I like to go into it. In fact, I tell people when we get into debates, like if I'm wrong, I want to know, so I'm always looking to learn more. What was the, you know, for you, what was the instigation? What made you go down this path? 

Dr. William West [00:13:06] I think it was about four or five years ago when I read that the most rapidly increasing faith community described themselves as nones, N-O-N-E-S. And if you look a little further into that group, they were choosing science over religion and that made me then wonder, well, what science are they looking at, which then gave me the opportunity. I never really, I'm an oncologist. I've been in science all my life. Never really asked the question what do we know and we know a lot today about the origin of the universe etc etc and so I went over and I looked at what I finally decided were eight I call them blueprints they're all equations but space time for instance takes 10 equations to describe so I decided to call them bluepprints looking at the eight fundamental bluepints that created this universe. Each one is a product of superintelligence. A wonderful revelation of God. So the irony was, as their young people were leaving the scriptural revelation, they're encountering another beautiful revelation. And that's why I wrote this book. I want them to understand that that science they're looking at is a reflection of a divine creator. 

Rick Green [00:14:26] It's interesting right now, there's a desire to learn more and to dig in. I saw on social media the other day, even Joe Rogan saying something to the effect of, I'm going to stick with Jesus instead of the Big Bang Theory, because the Big Bang theory takes more faith to believe than that there was somebody that actually created this thing. And I think that reflects, I mean, even as an agnostic, or I don't know if he's agnostics or atheists, but you know, he is beginning to realize there's got to be more to this. Then then just some accident that that happened and I think that reflects a big chunk of the the the generations out there right now That haven't ever really looked into the science of it I think one of the most important things you point out is that you know The greatest minds the greatest the people that we quote and we think while they're the most brilliant people of the last couple Of centuries that they were coming at it from a God consciousness perspective. They weren't atheist They didn't believe that there was no intelligent design 

Dr. William West [00:15:19] Right, the greatest scientists, until one guy came along named Charles Darwin. But before Darwin, they considered that they were reading the thoughts of God, that science was studying the work of their creator, which is correct, by the way. 

Rick Green [00:15:35] I like that, we see that. I like that. Say that again. That's reading the thoughts of God. That is good. Yes. 

Dr. William West [00:15:40] And I believe that was correct. And then Darwin came up with a little funky theory of evolution that was frankly wrong, but it disturbed the whole world and it kind of threw this dialog between science and faith off kilter. So I think we're finally recovering from that. 

Rick Green [00:16:02] What would you say to a student, and I don't mean necessarily a young person. I mean, it could be a 50 year old that's for the first time looking into this kind of thing. Well, how do you encourage them to be curious and where do you send them? I mean obviously your book is going to be the first place, but if they're listening right now and going, you know, I've been wondering this. I want to not just take what my high school biology teacher said. I want I want dig into this a little bit. 

Dr. William West [00:16:32] Frankly, it's why I wrote the book, because I thought there was no clear summary. And so, the book has three sections, the first of which is the universe, the second of which are the codes of life, and the third of which has to do with this amazing thing called consciousness. I think it's poorly taught. And I think that's part of the problem is there's no good source for getting this information in an understandable fashion. So, uh, that was my mission was to try to put a bit, put it in a book that would be a, and I think the biggest compliment I've had for the book is it would make a great homeschooling book, which, uh which I love. 

Rick Green [00:17:15] You may be the, you may be to science and creation, what the Bartons and me are to the Constitution and the Declaration. You actually find, you know, cause most people tune out, right? When you start talking about any of these types of subjects, you know people are busy and so they whatever, they tune out and you have to find a way to teach it in a way that's applicable to them and that's interesting to them and entertaining to them. And you know we've done that with history and the Constitution, and the declaration. And I think you're spot on, it's needed so much in, in this arena and the timing's right. As there is a curiosity right now, people are looking for answers. And so that's why we wanted to promote your book and, and get it out there. And of course we have a lot of young people that come through Patri Academy and wall builders and, um, and, uh, and a lot of people, like I said, they're 50, 60, 70s that are curious about this for the first time. And so we want to encourage them to get, by the way, sacred.science is the website. I don't know how you got that. That's a pretty cool website. Sacred.science. 

Dr. William West [00:18:15] Science is like dot com dot org. And so I realized all I had to do is say sacred dot science and I had had a website. 

Rick Green [00:18:24] Excellent that's sacred.science understanding divine creation. What would be in our you know we do in a few minutes we got together I know you can't teach the whole book on the air what we could take home lesson for people today what's one of the discoveries I guess for you? 

Dr. William West [00:18:37] My favorite part of this whole journey was understanding what's called the Higgs field. That may sound strange to folks, but it wasn't an absolute surety that we were going to have a physical universe, you know, particles were created, did they, were they going to build something physical? And to do that, they had to have something called mass. Now mass, we, we probably think more of our weight because gravity acts on our mass to give us our weight. But something had to make the universe physical. This mechanism was discovered because a guy named Peter Higgs looks at an equation and he said you know if this equation existed out there it would explain the origin of mass and he proposed the Higgs boson, proposed that the universe was filled with Higgs Bosons and that those parts of us that want to become an atom have to swim through and negotiate with those Higgs and as they negotiate with them they are given mass, they are encoded with mass. And that was confirmed in 2012. The Higgs boson was created in CERN with a big collider. So I just asked the question, where does the equation for the Higgs field spend eternity? Which then takes us to the concept way back of a higher dimension of ideal forms. And I've become a big believer in that. I think there's a library of mathematical equations. All the great mathematicians believe that. Penrose, for instance, knighted in England for his work on the black hole. Believes that his mind has the ability to visit this mathematical landscape and retrieve the equations. And if there's a landscape for math, then there's also a landscape for genes and proteins. And now you have a new approach to understanding how God might plan the unfolding of the species. 

Rick Green [00:20:51] Do you think that's that that means that he does give us then the ability to discover those formulas? 

Dr. William West [00:21:00] Yes. I absolutely do believe so. I think he wants us to. I think he want us to celebrate. I mean, this creation is unimaginable. And, you know, when I talk about the eight blueprints of the universe, I view each one of them as a work of art. Genius in their own right and then you see them interact and you realize what a wonderful plan there is to this universe. And then on to life. I mean we all take DNA for granted. Nobody knows where DNA came from. You know Francis Crick of Watson and Crick fame who broke down the structure of your DNA. Just before he died he decided DNA must have outer space. A mystery, and we can all take it for granted, DNA is kind of a common part of our life now, but nobody knows where it came from. 

Rick Green [00:21:50] Well, you know, I mean, somehow the Lord threw it in there. Maybe that's like it's flying in from outer space. Maybe God just, you don't. 

Dr. William West [00:21:58] Hey, that's as good an explanation as we've got. 

Rick Green [00:22:00] That's right. How important is it to, to study the Bible while studying science? Like how many, how many times, I know there's been a lot of scientists in history that discovered something because somehow something got illuminated in a scripture in a verse and all of a sudden, like the paths in the sea or that types of that type of thing. Did you find much of a correlation there in terms of. 

Dr. William West [00:22:23] I make it a weekly habit to read Genesis one. Yeah, you know look at the first sentence of the Bible in the beginning Einstein didn't believe in the beginning. So here we have probably 700 years before Jesus, someone inspired to recognize there was a beginning, and even to go on and say, let there be light. And I think that's just phenomenal. We're talking about what almost 3000 years ago, there were no physics academies around at that time. And here we have this beautiful piece of literature. In the beginning, God said, let there relied. That's about the only little bit of the Bible I need to show somebody to say, you know, God is real and the Bible is real. Yeah. That's to me, just a phenomenal thing. 

Rick Green [00:23:15] Well, man, I encourage people to check it out, sacred.science, easy website, that's so good, sacred dot science, understanding divine creation, Dr. William West. We sure appreciate you coming on Wobbler today. 

Dr. William West [00:23:27] Thank you so much, lot of fun. 

Rick Green [00:23:29] You bet! Stay with us folks, we'll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Rick Green [00:24:40] Welcome back to the WallBuilders show. Thanks to Dr. William West for joining us today. Again, that website love this that he was able to get this sacred.science. Sacred.sciences. Hey guys, great approach. And, and it sounds like a great tool that we can get into the hands, especially, you know, Tim, when you're, you're doing the, the Institute this summer and when I'm doing the Patriot Academy events, I mean, this sounds like great tool for us to get into, into the, into these young people that are hungry for truth. 

Tim Barton [00:25:05] I literally went online during the interview, and I already have ordered his book, Sacred Science. I even got it on an audible so I can listen to it while I'm driving. I am very excited to get into this because there is a lot of things now that there is far better evidence on our side, even as you mentioned in the interview. I mean, when Joe Rogan is explaining that it seems like you have to believe in far more miracles to believe in a Big Bang than you do the resurrection of Jesus, because that's one miracle. The Big Bang, there's all these things had to come together at one time. And when you have people who are not even Christian acknowledging that there's a crazy amount of faith that takes to believe in some of these evolutionary theories and where there is a logic or maybe a less of a kind of illogical leap of faith to some extent for some of this Christian thought and tradition, it makes a lot of sense. I'm excited to have this book. I definitely am getting into it and probably will be highlighting some of things and thoughts throughout the summer. Working with our high school and college students, helping to train and equip them and give them a foundation. And probably they're gonna see that Isaac Newton book as well, where he gets into the revelation from Daniel and from the apostle John. 

Rick Green [00:26:18] Well, Lord willing, we'll get more and more like this, you know, just like what wall builders became for history, bringing back the truth of history and doing it in an entertaining way and doing in a way where people could actually use it. Maybe we'll get more of this on the science side of things as well. So folks, the website once again is sacred.science, sacred.Science, check it out there. And then of course, visit our websites today as well, wallbuilders.show and wallbuilders.com. Thanks so much for listening to the wallbuilders show.