Rick Green [00:00:07] This is the intersection of faith and culture, The WallBuilder Show. Thanks for joining us today. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. We're taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Going to zero in on that biblical perspective specifically today, talking about applying God's Word to everything in life and really adopting a kingdom agenda in our lives. David and Tim, of course, our approach has always been the Bible applies to everything. There's nothing off limits with the Bible. And when we saturate our thinking in that way and we line up with the laws of nature and nature's God. Things tend to produce good results, just like Deuteronomy says. Doesn't mean it's always going to be perfect, doesn't mean we just name it and claim it, but it means when you line up with those walls of the way God created us, you get a better result than when you just continue to go against them like we've been doing in the culture lately. 

David Barton [00:00:49] Well, that's certainly the way America's founded. I mean, you look back to the Pilgrims, had it not been for them applying the Bible to every aspect of life, Jamestown, I think, applied the Bible to their faith, and they didn't even do a real good job of that. But Pilgrims said, no, no no, it's faith in living. It's faith and how you look at government. It's the faith in how you at education. It's a faith in you look in business. And they applied it to so many areas that so many of the good aspects that America has came really through that tradition of the pilgrims and Puritans and their belief that the Bible applied to every single aspect of life. And we believe that too. The scripture's talking, Peter, about how the Bible gives us everything needed for life and godliness, not just spiritual stuff, but all the other stuff as well. And so we're told even in Second Timothy that his word is inspired and it gives us everything for life. So we've always kind of believed that, but America's gone through a period of about 60 years where we were taught, no, no no no. Faith doesn't apply in public. Go to church for that, have that at home, but you don't do that in public. And we've gone through this kind of secularization of America mentality. Instead of separation church and state, what they wanted was secularization, of both church and State. And so church is really not the power that it used to be. And certainly as Christians, we've really not done a good job of taking God's principles into every aspect of our lives, and therefore every aspect, of the culture. But that's something that I think is starting and turn around and come back. 

Rick Green [00:02:11] Yeah, in fact, Tim, I remember David talking about this about a year ago when he did the difference between Jamestown and the Pilgrims. And then when you project that out over time, you get a very different outcome as well. And so what we do today and how we apply God's Word, actually, we're going to see the impact of that next generation, generation after that, even 100 years from now. 

Tim Barton [00:02:30] Yeah, it's a great point. There's a 1888 map that is a contrast of Plymouth and Jamestown. And it does track over centuries what those ideologies produced. Where in Jamestown, there was Bible professing or Christian professing individuals. But in Plymouth, they're the ones that were spending hours a day in God's Word. And actually it's similar to maybe even in James, where it talks about being doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving yourself. There's definitely people that have heard God's word, but if we don't put it into practice, James says you could deceive yourself but when you put it in to practice, you actually can get incredible results and that's part of following God's standard and certainly that's what happened in early America. We can track the pilgrims, the founding fathers, so many examples of people that took some of those biblical principles and applied them and we have enjoyed the benefits of what they started. 

Rick Green [00:03:24] Well, our guest today, Charlie Lewis, we're going to be talking specifically about that, how to live out a kingdom mindset in all of these different areas. Stay with us. Charlie Lewis our special guest today talking about the kingdom system. We'll be right back on the Wallbuilders show. 

Rick Green [00:04:40] We're back here on The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Charlie Lewis with us, very successful businessman, but also a kingdom man. And I think back to the, oh, the amazing book, Kingdom agenda that, Tony Evans came and taught us freshmen legislators all those years ago, 25 years ago when we did that. And that's the mindset here. This kingdom system actually applying the Bible to everything in our life. My good friend, Charlie Lewis, with us welcome. You know, this is one of those really good strategies and tactics discussions, just like the founding fathers had. We're going to be talking about the kingdom system. This is just the first of three books that Charlie's got coming out. Charlie, I've been using your declaration stuff for a couple of years since I found you. You also back up each of those with scripture. So it's not just some flesh desire. This is what God told me I am. It's God's identity for us. Anyway, welcome in. 

Charlie Lewis [00:05:27] Thank you. Glad to be here. Well, I'm honored to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. 

Rick Green [00:05:32] I guess part of what I want to really get into with you is people don't think about biblical worldview as having the science behind it, but the whole idea of not just laws of nature and nature's God, but the dynamics, I love that word, the dynamics that God put in place that When we plug into that and we do it his way. 

Charlie Lewis [00:05:54] I agree. 

Rick Green [00:05:54] The results are remarkable. 

Charlie Lewis [00:05:56] I was being drawn by the Holy Spirit to study, and I wasn't really sure where I was going. I just felt I needed to study it, and the Spirit told me to read everything in Scripture that Jesus said. Well, you have to realize that I was in the middle of a major development. I was working 18 hours a day plus, and was a bit annoyed when I was told to read everything that Jesus says when He was on the air. In my comment. 

Rick Green [00:06:22] Beause you were already busy with all these other, I'm doing your work, Lord. Why am I? 

Charlie Lewis [00:06:27] And I was so annoyed. I said, this stuff in the red, Lord, I get it. Okay. Then I could now on this side of it, I could just see the Lord smiling and laughing at my impetus to say, yeah, the stuff in red, the Lord. I read it. I said to the Lord, I said I've read it and he said, no, Charlie. He said, you read it with your religious mind. You didn't read it with an open spirit to hear what my spirit wants to say to your spirit. And I wept. I mean, it just crushed me because I repented. I asked for forgiveness. I went back and I said, I'll read it again. It's remarkable. You didn't teach all of these things that have become silos and so important doctrines. He said, no. What did I teach? I said you taught the kingdom of God. That's all you taught. And he said. 

Rick Green [00:07:17] Now you've been paying attention is what he's here. 

Charlie Lewis [00:07:20] And I said, okay, okay. I get it. The most important thing was that that was the central theme and the primary message of all that Jesus taught. It was the center, but yet we don't, we haven't made it the center for us. You know, and I said well, if that's important to you, it ought to be important to me. And so then I'm reading in Matthew where he said, make it first, seek first, the kingdom, seek the kingdom of God and is right. The whole of scripture is about governance. 

Rick Green [00:07:52] When you would go back in and you would be seeking the depth of, okay, how does this kingdom system work? What did you ask God to do in terms of your understanding? How did you approach the study, I guess is what I'm saying. 

Charlie Lewis [00:08:03] The first thing that came to me when the Lord, when I read that, I said, are you telling me that the kingdom of God is the government of heaven and you brought it to the earth for us to engage and to employ in the living of our life? It's not just some religious thing or some spiritual thing. It is the nuts and bolts of how we are to live our I said, why didn't I know that? I said, I didn't just get here, Lord, I've been in, but I understood what he was saying. I said to him, I said so you, this is what you want me to know. This is what I need to understand. He said, Charlie, you've had a measure of success. People will look at you and say, you are successful, but you have not touched the success that I have planned for you. But Jesus said, seek my governor, my rule, my way of doing. And being right my paradigm and then all these things will be added to you beside as an entrepreneur i said. 

Rick Green [00:09:04] Bring it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's next, Lord? Give it to me. 

Charlie Lewis [00:09:08] The church has done an amazing job on redemption, but restoration's not. 

Rick Green [00:09:12] Yeah, I remember that in your book when you said that I was like, oh that's gold right there 

Charlie Lewis [00:09:16] for a while I was a pretty religious person, so I used that religious paradigm. And I made everything religious, and work and all God didn't care about. That's not what scripture says. He cares about everything that we care about, He designed us that desire in there for us to engage Him in everything in our life. And some people go to the church paradigm. Jesus, when He was on the earth, He taught and he modeled perfectly the Kingdom Paradigm. 

Rick Green [00:09:48] What would be the first step you would encourage people to do if they want to walk in the kingdom system? 

Charlie Lewis [00:09:54] How did he say it in Romans? He said, be not conformed, but be transformed, which is metamorphized. You change by the washing of the water of the Word of God. You have to love the Word of God because the Word God is God. There have been times in my life that God just put an unquenchable thirst to know Him and to know His Word. And you have to meditate on it day and night. Don't let it depart from you, and that's some of the declarations he talked about, the Word of God. The Word of God is important. He said, if your motivation is just earthbound and for earthly people to see, he said, you got your reward. I don't have a reward for you. He says that in there about three or four times. The world system teaches us that it's all asset-based, time-driven, and the pursuit of money. That's success. Jesus said, no. It's purpose-based, eternity-driven, and in the pursuit of outcome. And that changes your whole dynamic of your relationship. God, you learn how to engage heaven and bring heaven to earth. You know, religion and church sometimes teaches that escape theology, we're just waiting to get out here. God didn't say that. He said, bring heaven to the earth and allow me to impact society. God loves humanity. And he has such a, you know, I've just been basking because it's so close to the resurrection, and the resurrection is so powerful for us when we get it. First of all, it codifies who Jesus was and is. That resurrection proved, and then it proves, you know, who He was to us. Because He did that for us, but not only that, then it codifies who we are to Him that He would do. You see all those different dynamics working there? The resurrection has a lot, and that's what the Kingdom is about. It's about engaging Heaven, understanding His way of doing and being right. And the second chapter in the 44th verse, Daniel, where Daniel was talking about the Kingdom, he was explaining Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Here's the guy who has a dream and he's not going to tell you what it is, but he wants you to tell him what it was. Yeah. It means. I mean that. 

Rick Green [00:12:11] You're not doing that without God. 

Charlie Lewis [00:12:13] But Daniel described it so perfectly. He said, here are these successive kingdoms. Rick, all of those were governments on the earth. It was the Babylon, Medes, the Persians, the Greeks, and then the Romans. And he said, the Lord wants you to know never, because that's what's going to happen. This was thousands of years of history. You know this guy? And he says, God of heaven himself will establish his kingdom. You can really change that kingdom to government. This kingdom is going to shatter all those other kingdoms into nothingness." Now, that's prophetic. God said it, and it's certain it's going to happen. It's for sure. And so, when God showed me that, I said, you're talking about government. Lord, and he said, immediately I remembered Isaiah 9 and 7, where he said when Messiah comes, the government will be on his shoulders. And he said this, he said it would bring immeasurable peace and prosperity. Promote justice and righteousness, it would be forever, and it would cause everything to come under its influence. And he says here, the will of God, the passionate will of the host of heaven, of God of the angel armies of God will make this happen. When you read Hebrews 12, where he talks about Mount Zion, and he talks about, as he said, the God of heaven will establish his government here on the earth. When you really stop and think about it, wouldn't it be ridiculous for us to believe that the God of heaven and earth, who made such an amazing place for us to live, that He wouldn't have a plan for us that walk in victory while we're here? 

Rick Green [00:13:52] While we're here, yeah. 

Charlie Lewis [00:13:53] We're just going to be beat up by the devil every time he turns around. 

Rick Green [00:13:56] Right, right. 

Charlie Lewis [00:13:57] No, but that's not the plan of God. He's coming back for a glorious church without a powerful church that has gained. But you know the challenge here when we don't embrace that kingdom paradigm, you know, churches talked about how people are going away and how they're losing their crowds. The people are looking for a kingdom church. Yeah, they're not looking for a church. 

Rick Green [00:14:22] Uh, that's good, yeah. 

Charlie Lewis [00:14:24] And, and my business is not supposed to be a business kingdom. It's supposed to be a kingdom. 

Rick Green [00:14:30] Yeah, yeah 

Charlie Lewis [00:14:32] Everything, all of the mountains, God has a plan for government, for economy, for media, for family, for education, arts and entertainment, everyone. There's a government plan, and all we have to learn to do is engage it. When we believe it, we can call it to the earth. 

Rick Green [00:14:48] Do you think the American system is the closest we've gotten to that? In other words, like they were so saturated in God's word and then, you know, one historian said it was, Christianity was the atmosphere they were breathing. So there was a lot of the kingdom principles, the biblical justice, not social justice, that kind of stuff that they put into our founding documents and into the way. So not that it was perfect at all, but at least they had some of that. Do you that's why we had more success? Cause we got a little piece of the key system. 

Charlie Lewis [00:15:15] And when you really understand how God works in his way of doing and being right, his paradigm, God chose us. Yeah, he didn't have to, you know, the teaching and when, when Paul was talking to the Athenian, he said he doesn't like anything that we mortals can supply for him because he has all things and everything that he needs. Hmm. But God chose us. We have that relationship, that covenant relationship with him and we choose, and that's what God, America did when they own in Virginia and those places and George Washington, they made the covenant with God and he accepted it. And that's why we are where we are, but it's not enough. 

Speaker 7 [00:15:59] Right, right. 

Charlie Lewis [00:15:59] We've got to understand his plan. The government of heaven that we have to bring to the earth. I've been to Wales, went to Evan Roberts Church and to the place he started. Wales had an amazing revival. You wouldn't know it today. You can go to Azusa Street and it's just another street. 

Rick Green [00:16:18] Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, in fact, Andrew Olmec was talking about how, you know, you had the big, you know the the Jesus revolution in California, lots of revival, lots of souls saved. How did you say it earlier? You got the redemption, we got the redemption part. Yeah, but then they didn't put the kingdom system in place and there wasn't restoration. That's one of the reasons we don't. 

Charlie Lewis [00:16:38] Because we don't accept and adopt and let that kingdom paradigm become who we are. You know, I was a Ziegler fan too, and he talked about internalizing. You know you don't just memorize scripture. That won't work. That's your head knowledge, and that knowledge comes from the earth. Wisdom comes from God, from Adam's realm. We've got to internalize it so it becomes not just what we know There's more knowledge about God and about 

Rick Green [00:17:09] What's the what's the practical way is that where the declarations become really important there literally getting it from us Just having it in our head. You're reprogramming your brain and your heart to get in line literally lining it up with the kingdom 

Charlie Lewis [00:17:22] I have that kingdom activating decorations on my treadmill and I'd say them out loud, I don't have to read them anymore because I've done it for years. 

Rick Green [00:17:30] Same, I got like 50 of them and I just, every morning I just as I'm driving or whatever, I can go through them and yeah. 

Charlie Lewis [00:17:36] I, because I want to build up my spirit first, then my mind and my body, because we're an eternal spirit, we live in a body that's our earth suit, and then we're managed by our mind. 

Rick Green [00:17:48] Hey, any of y'all out there that are thinking, oh, that's hokey pokey stuff or whatever. Listen, I'm telling you, you got to get this kingdom system and get the declarations. You can go on Charlie's website and get those and do the ebook for those. In my book, Living Your Purpose, we talk about why this is so important. And I'm just telling you it's the Joel, it's that verse in Joel, I think three, let the weak say I am strong. You're proclaiming those things. If you're literally programming yourself to walk in that, yeah, yeah. 

Charlie Lewis [00:18:14] That's how we're designed, you know? It's all about design. 

Rick Green [00:18:19] This is good stuff, brother. So, okay, but you got two more books coming out. Are they done? Are they coming over the next year? What's your plan with those? 

Charlie Lewis [00:18:25] We describe the system, we describe in there and expose in scripture that that is what God's plan is for our success. Not just redemption, but restoration. 

Rick Green [00:18:37] And real life stuff, because your next one's economics, right? 

Charlie Lewis [00:18:40] The next one is Kingdom Nami. 

Rick Green [00:18:42] Kingonomics. Yeah, I gotta get this terminology out. 

Charlie Lewis [00:18:44] And that is conduct and behavior. And that tells how we, uh, how we enter it. It's not religious. We don't follow that religious paradigm where it becomes regulation and compliance and enforcement, you know, and it is in fact, a product of our design. And when we understand what our design is, we make choices, conduct and behavior that impact our outcomes. We can know before we make a decision. Right there. 

Rick Green [00:19:11] So that's gonna apply not just to our personal economics, but corporately as a as a community 

Charlie Lewis [00:19:16] Everything about you, the two most conversational, uh, passages in scripture are the woman at the well and Nicodemus that's where those are. 

Rick Green [00:19:25] Where he had the longest. Yeah. One-on-one personal conversation. 

Charlie Lewis [00:19:30] If you look at those, and really read them, not with your religious mind, but with an open spirit, those people were desperate, and they were asking Jesus questions based on time. Why this mountain, that mountain? What's on my door? Jesus never once answered them in time. He always took them to eternity and to their eternalness. And what we are supposed to learn how to do is to see things that aren't seen, to see with the eyes of our spirit. Ecclesiastes 3 and 11 says, God made everything beautiful in its time. He also planted eternity in our spirits and our mind as an implanted sense of purpose working through the ages, which nothing under the sun and the time will satisfy, but God alone. See, we are eternal beings. And when we try to engage the earthly paradigm, we're frustrated. It doesn't work. God does just so he's so spiritual with and religious with the stuff. I'm in the shower one more night and I'm taking a shower and then the spirit spoke to me and he said, if it's not about eternity, it's not about the kingdom. And I said, wait a minute. What, what do you say? Eternity is the foundation. God is eternal. His word is eternal His spirit is eternal, His kingdom is eternal and we are eternal. The scriptures from cover to cover is a book about two kingdoms, one king, one who wants to be king, and the epic battle for humanity. So the book from cover-to-cover is about kingdoms and how they operate and how we engage them. And one quick thing, Rick, the Lord said to me, the scriptures are not religious. He said they are about government and in fact, they are the values. The principles and the established precedents that we agree to use to govern ourselves. You know what that describes, right? 

Rick Green [00:21:33] It does. I was about to say this is the opposite of this whole separation church and state thing that makes us think the Bible doesn't have anything to do with government. It's all about how we're going to govern ourselves, how we are going to govern our neighborhoods, how are we going to do it. 

Charlie Lewis [00:21:45] It all is, and they present for us. And they're not religious in any way. Scripture won't support that God wasn't or is religious. They are relational, and teach us how to engage heaven and bring heaven to the earth, live a victorious life here and bring other people with you. 

Rick Green [00:22:03] Man and he tells us exactly how to do it Can you imagine living in a neighborhood where everybody actually thinks murder is wrong and stealing is wrong? And there's no no no nine hundred dollar exception in the eighth commandment by the way just in case you Californians need to know that But yeah, I mean that it is it's literally about government all the way through and man But and when we do it his way, we're blessed and you have prosperity and liberty and everything in that community 

Charlie Lewis [00:22:24] You know, we call that the new covenant, right? And the old covenant, do you know that that covenant word covenant translated on out becomes constitution? 

Rick Green [00:22:32] I did not know that 

Charlie Lewis [00:22:33] It is our governing agreement with the government of heaven that God Himself as Jesus Christ brought to the earth. 

Rick Green [00:22:42] You had mentioned three things that we normally set as our goals, you know, in terms of time and money and that sort of thing, but if our mindset becomes eternal, then even the things we're doing here, business, ministry, all of those things, it's all for the eternal purpose. That's it. It changes our motive. It changes how we set our goals. It changes what those things are going to be. It does! The Kingdom System best website to send people to. 

Charlie Lewis [00:23:05] God's plan book. 

Rick Green [00:23:08] Godsplanbooks.com, godsplanbook.com. Stay with us folks, we'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:24:22] Welcome back to the WallBuilders show thanks for staying with us special thanks to Charlie Lewis for joining us as well the kingdom system guys when We apply a kingdom system in our personal lives we get results It's great to get people thinking about applying it in our corporate lives meaning our community or our societal lives as well 

Tim Barton [00:24:36] Well, one of the things that he pointed out is that so often people are familiar with concepts or ideas and don't always put them into practice. And for him, it was kind of like this, this revelation of, hey, maybe I should try these in every area. Maybe I should try this in my business and see what happens. And he's an example of somebody that took biblical principles, biblical ideas and work to apply them in every area, including in business. And it's seen a lot of blessings. In fact, he's been a supporter of WallBuilders and Patriot Academy. And we have been able to be blessed and enjoy some of the fruit of his labor. But the reason there was so much fruit in his labor is because in his mind, and I would agree with him, is because he worked to do it God's way, following God's standards, and even then being a good steward with the increase that God brought him. And this is certainly something that is true, not just in business and economics, but it's true in government. It's true for nations. It's truth for families. It's through for marriages. God's ways just work. 

David Barton [00:25:34] He said the word of God is God. And we're told in the scriptures that Jesus is called the word. He is the word incarnate. Says the word has become flesh and dwelt among you. And Jesus is the Word. And he is the epitome of the word, and I think that's such a profound statement that if you don't have a hunger for the Word, the written Word, you really don't want to have a hungry for God because the two things really are the same. And if you say I love God, I love, God, I love god, but you're not spending time in his Word. Then we've got to kind of maybe re-examine whether we look a little closer at that because you can't separate one from the other. The two are the same. And I think that's a great point that he made. And that is a great way for us to know whether we really are thinking biblically kingdom-minded is whether we're in the word. And that's what made the difference between the pilgrims in Jamestown. 

Rick Green [00:26:18] Well, it certainly made a difference for them. We feel that difference even today, the difference in the cultures, depending on if they were more impacted by Jamestown or by the Pilgrims. And so knowing that, what we do today, literally should the Lord Terry, will be still having an effect 400 years from now, vitally important for us to build on the rock, build on that solid foundation, and being saturated in God's Word is the best way to make that happen. Thanks so much for listening today. Thanks to Charlie Lewis for joining us. You've been listening to The WallBuilder Show.