Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us today on The WallBuilders Show. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. You can learn more about us at our websites, wallbuilders.com and wallbuilder.show if you wanna go straight to the radio programs from the last few weeks. Today we're gonna actually have two guests at once and they're working on Simon's Law all over the country but for very personal reasons, as well as for other parents to have parental rights as well. So guys, of course we talk about parental rights typically in the uh, in the subject of education or maybe even vaccine choice. In this case, it's a parental rights for end of life issues. So really interesting topic today. 

David Barton [00:00:46] Yeah, it was a tragic story. I mean, as it developed, it didn't have all the aspects that it now has. But Sheryl Crosier, back a number of years ago, lived in Kansas, still lives in Kansas. But in Kansas she had a son, and that son, as they were in the hospital, he started having some difficulty with breathing as an infant. He was having difficulty with food, holding food, and so medication, et cetera, and after a day or two, it looked real clear that he was on his way down and he ended up dying in the hospital. And so it was a tragic story. But then after that happened, she found out from one of the nurses who just kind of slipped her a message that, hey, you need to look at his chart. And it turned out that her son, Simon, she named him Simon, had Down syndrome. And she didn't know that. And the medical people decided that he did not need to live. So they started withholding the food. They started withhold the medication. They started giving him, drugs that made it hard for him to breathe. And so he ended up passing and she only found out about after the fact. She was never consulted. They took the life of her son. Medical experts decided she didn't need that boy that she, he shouldn't have to grow up with that kind of thing. So it's just a tragic story, but it got her fired up and she is now, she got a law passed in Kansas that parental rights. You gotta consult the parents on the condition of the child. You gotta tell them, and that's what's now kind of moving across the nation. Whoever thought would have to do that. 

Tim Barton [00:02:19] Yeah, I think that's one of the crazy things in my mind about this is the fact that we have, we have seen, and I guess since COVID, there's a lot of things that have come to light. And actually now, uh, with president Trump, with Doge, we're seeing so many more things coming to light, things that we never thought we would have to argue or debate. You know, we never though we would to argue and debate what is a woman or that boys shouldn't play in girl sports or be in girls' locker rooms and in their showers. And I mean, we can go down this list. things we never thought we'd have to debate and, and some of the basic parental autonomy that parents are the ones tasked with raising their kids. It's not the government is not the educational institution. Again, we can go down that list. And the fact that now we're having to navigate being able to pass the laws to reaffirm what should have been the obvious authority. But, but we've seen over the years and really, again, we saw it so much during COVID, we were told we need to trust the experts. and whatever the experts say, that's what we're gonna do. And there's been a really big shift in some of the power structures in favor of, at times, the quote unquote experts, but the experts don't always have the same ideas, intent, or direction. And when it comes to medical things, guys, thinking about the topic today, and Simon's Law, I was trying to remember what is the first maybe major medical things where there was debate surrounding. And for me, I remember as a kid, the Terry Shivo case, where I don't remember all the details, but what I remember about it was that she was very sick and the husband was like, hey, let's pull the feeding tube. And the parents were like, no, right? We don't want our daughter to die. And there was this big debate about what was ethical and what was legal. But now we are to the place that the doctors are saying, we don't even care what the parents think. We're the experts. we're going to make decisions. And of course, not every doctor, we know there's doctors that listen to us that have very different views, but we're seeing this in some of the medical arena. We've seen it in some of the pharmaceutical area where there are areas of corruption, there are areas where there is now a significant need to do things on the legislative front. 

Rick Green [00:04:34] Yeah, and guys, just like any other legislative bill, it comes down to that question, who decides? And my goodness, the idea that a parent would not even be informed, let alone get to make the decision, just terrible. And so, yeah, legislation needs to happen. And so we're going to talk with a couple of champs about how they have already gotten legislation passed and now it's moving across the country. So stay with us, folks. We'll be right back. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:06:03] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us today. Sandy Enzminger and Sheryl Crosier with us. Ladies, thank you for joining us today 

Sheryl Crosier [00:06:10] Thank you. 

Sandi Enzminger [00:06:11] Thank you for having us, Rick. 

Rick Green [00:06:12] All right. So let's talk about, and I need to ask first how many states this law has actually been passed in Simon's law. And, uh, and then of course we'll get the background, Sheryl, your story about Simon and then,  Sandi, what people can do to get this passed in more states, so we've got a lot to cover in a short period of time. Sheryl, let's start with you. You know, Simon's story, this is, I've heard this too many times when this has happened, even back when I was a state rep and in Texas had some families that faced a similar situation to what you did. And in fact, in some ways worse, I don't know if it can get any worse because they found out it was being done and tried to fight it and still were unable to save what was being to their child. So tell us, tell us a summary of Simon's story. 

Sheryl Crosier [00:06:58] So Simon was born in 2010 and He was euthanized right before our eyes. As soon as they found out that he had the diagnosis of trisomy 18, that is when we noticed that care was starting to be withheld. So once he was diagnosed, we started hearing not for Simon. So what does that mean? It just meant he was not worthy of the same life-sustaining treatment as someone without an intellectual disability. So it doesn't have to be a syndrome like Simon. Care can be with held without that syndrome. But we were pleading with 

Rick Green [00:07:35] Because the physician or whoever is making the decision that this life is less worthy of care than another life. 

Sheryl Crosier [00:07:43] Exactly. So we did not have a prenatal diagnosis. There were markers on the ultrasound, but we did not go down that path because I had endured six miscarriages before Simon. And we knew that we were blessed with our son and we wanted to do everything for him. But it was at three months of age that we noticed his oxygen level started to plummet and the NICU personnel, not one member lifted a finger. It was after that, a compassionate nurse suggested, encouraged us to examine Simon's medical records. And that's where we found there was a do not resuscitate order. And they were only giving him comfort feeds, which is the least amount of nutrition. Basically, they're starving your child. And they also gave him a medication that was contraindicated for the apnea that he was experiencing. 

Rick Green [00:08:37] And that DNR was not something you requested or parent requested. Didn't even know that it was happening. Somebody else put that on the chart. 

Sheryl Crosier [00:08:43] Yes, absolutely. So we found that in the records, like I said, after one of his, we call him his special nurses, one of them had, you know, encouraged us to look and that's where we found this gut-wrenching truth. So it was really after Simon had died and I had gathered all the medical records, it was three weeks after he had died, and I was looking through the medical records that I wrote his book, I'm Not a Syndrome, My Name is Simon. And also, Hello, My Name is Simon, which is a children's grief book. But really, I wanted to, at that point, it was see the specialness in my son, even though he has a disability, he is our child. And we, as parents, need to make those decisions. So I was out speaking, a lot of different kinds of speaking engagements, and met representative Kidd, which he wasn't a representative at the time he was running for office and I was the keynote speaker. It was a God incidence. We were both at a back table. We were supposed to be at the front table. And we started talking, and that's when he wanted to learn a little bit more about futility policies. So we were in a documentary labeled. They traveled the country. This assignment's not an isolated situation. There are many families that experience what we have experienced. And a lot of times you don't find that out until you're reviewing their charts and finding out what exactly went into their chart. 

Rick Green [00:10:12] What state are you in? Where was, where did your incident? 

Sheryl Crosier [00:10:15] I'm in Missouri. 

Rick Green [00:10:17] Missouri and then representative Kidd was also he was also in Missouri He was also in Missouri. 

Sheryl Crosier [00:10:20] He is the originator of Simon's law. And, uh, the first day another God incidents, the first day he filed,  Simon's Law and,  he had called me and it was on December 3rd and which was the anniversary of Simon's death. And I said, Bill, what time did you file Simon's law? And he said, 10 45 a.m., which is the exact time that Simon had died. Bill was not connecting the dots. He didn't even know it was Simon's so-called angel day. You know, the day that he went to his eternal home, but it was, it was meant to be so we, you know, kept on going and it took Missouri five years, which is still my home state. And I'll tell you, I mean, once we got that signed, I was like, Oh, you know, you could, you, you can rest in the fact that parental rights were protected and our children are protected, especially if you have a minor child. but it was Kansas that first passed and right now, we have about 12 Simon safe states, and we continue to go state by state. And it's also been introduced at a federal level. So it's not called Simon's Law on a federal level, it's called the Simon Crosier Act so we continue to work on that as well. 

Rick Green [00:11:38] Sandy, let me bring you in here. The fundamental question here is who decides and is this a parental decision or a medical, in my opinion, a sterile, uninterested individual or board or the state even deciding instead of the parent? And how do legislators respond to that when you basically put it in front of them as a parental right question? 

Sandi Enzminger [00:12:08] Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we live in a culture right now that absolutely idolizes choice, everything from your way, right away, fast food to a culture of, you know, reproductive rights. And you would think that, you now, whatever people choose, especially in the medical arena, that it would be respected and honored. But, you know, like Cheryl's story shows that if the quote-unquote evidence-based scientific consensus has decided your child is incompatible with life, then we do not honor any of your choices that are run contrary to what we want to do. My daughter is almost six and a half. She also has trisomy 18, and in Idaho here, the very same hospital that kidnaps children and to force care on them, has tried to withhold care from her in hopes that she would fulfill her statistics and die. And so it was quite a blessing to be able to take her down to the Capitol and present her to legislators while the medical community is sitting there going, no, we know best. We're saving these children from suffering, blah, blah, and I would sit there with my daughter and go look at her. Look at her, is she suffering? 

Rick Green [00:13:30] Good for you. 

Sandi Enzminger [00:13:32] Do you, you know, you either pass this law or you look her and her whole row of siblings in the eye and say, no, the doctors are right. She should be dead. 

Rick Green [00:13:42] That's powerful. Oh, I love that. Good for you. That's brilliant. That's some of the best lobbying I've ever heard of in my life. Good for you. 

Sandi Enzminger [00:13:49] Yeah. So we, we take her to, to commit, you know, we'd take her wherever we can. We took her to the,  the conference last winter and, and, you know, it's cause the doctor, I mean, it was so funny. I mean the medical community literally twitched. You know, they would be testifying about how horrible trisomy 18 is. And they turn around and look at her and go, yeah, but she's an exception. It's like, how many exceptions are you not allowing to live? 

Rick Green [00:14:16] What's her name again? 

Sandi Enzminger [00:14:17] Tabatha

Rick Green [00:14:18] Tabatha, all right. Well, you tell Tabatha the WallBuilder's audience is cheering for her. What a champ, what an absolute champ. And I don't want to gloss over your statement,  about, you know, the same hospital that kidnaps kids, to force care on them is refusing care to these kids and you know I have firsthand knowledge of that with, you know, baby Cyrus there in Idaho. Maybe one of the ones that you're referring to a good friends of ours, had their grandson literally kidnapped by the medical establishment and thankfully they had the political wherewithal and experience to fight that and finally get their kid back who's doing fantastic right now in a different another state but had to literally move away to prevent the persecution that they were receiving so, you know, we sometimes think of the medical I call them the medical industrial complex But we think of them medical establishment or medical quote-unquote professionals as being these altruistic. They're always going to do the right thing and while I hate to cast aspersions on the whole community, there are those who don't do the right thing. And that's why the fundamental principle and the right of the parent to make the decision is so important so that they can get their kid to someone that will make the right decision, that they have the power, the parent has the power to make that final decision. And so anyway, I didn't mean to digress or go down that rabbit hole, but I thought your statement was so well said. That is unfortunately just the truth of what we're facing with the current situation. So these laws put the decision-making power into the right hands, which is the parents. 

Sandi Enzminger [00:15:49] Right. Absolutely. I mean, you know, no, the parents are the ones who are dealing with the 24 seven care. The parents are. The one who have the child's future in mind, whatever that future may be. The parents, are the one's who have made the personal and financial and physical sacrifices to bring this child into law, into this world, you know, and a doctor comes in. I mean in the few times that Tabatha has been in the hospital. You know, they just come in, they look at the diagnosis and blah, blah, blah, you know, and they make their, again, their evidence-based determination that the book tells them to make. And it's like, no, no. This is an individual. I am paying you for your opinion and your services. No, thank you. And this is what we're going to do. 

Rick Green [00:16:35] Now this is, this is the broader, like you said, this is a culture that champions choice and wants choice in all of these other areas. I mean, my goodness, life itself is what we're talking about here. And the, and the decisions of how to deal with difficult, you already have a parent that said, you know, dealing with this, these massive decisions and, and difficult, difficult decisions and to take that off the table from them and think that you know better and you just nailed it. I mean you're the ones that are that are dealing with the financial, the emotional, I mean, all of the decisions, all of them, the weight of these things. So, man, I just love, I love the fight in both of you. And I love that fact that you're doing this not just in your own home states, but you're out there fighting for the rest of us to be able to make those decisions as well in our states. The website, so that people can follow this, give us the website and tell me what to tell people. Like, how do we tell them? to join this fight? How do we get them engaged in their particular state on this? 

Sandi Enzminger [00:17:34] So the website is simonslaw.org. And on there, they can find the different states that are Simon Safe states. And they can email myself, Sheryl at Simon's Law, or Sandy, S-A-N-D-I at Simon Law. And one of us will get back in touch with them and see what we can do in their states. You know, you brought up a good point. I mean, we're out there. This is. This is a ministry. This has been a grassroots operation. We just, we do what we can recently my husband and I flew to Maine to testify and we're like, okay, we're in the middle of the country. This is not a hop, skip and a jump to get to you. We can't bring our son back, but we want to make sure that this doesn't happen to your children. And so we, that's why we have to go state to state and make sure that all children are protected because they're all at risk if they're not protected. And I think Rick, one of the other things too, it doesn't just have to be a child with a disability. So when I'm out there testifying, I am looking them in the eye, those legislators, and I'm like, okay, this could be your child, your grandchild. What if your six-year-old falls off a bicycle, sustains head injuries? Do you, or do you want a stranger, which is going to be the ICU doctor making that life or death decision? Okay. Think about your 16 year old, you know, they get into a car wreck and you get the call and you're up there at the hospital. Again, it goes back to do you wanna have a stranger making the decision or you? So Simon's law puts the decision-making back into the parents which have never been taken away in the first place. It's all about informed consent. These are our children. We were blessed by God with our children to care for our children 

Rick Green [00:19:15] Informed consent, man, that's exactly what it is. And I love your language, Simon Safe States. Y'all are so good at this. I mean, I know this is a tough issue, but we have to have joy in everything that we do, right? And y'all just, you're good at the persuasion that it takes to get this stuff done. I say this as a former legislator. I mean you have to the ability to go in there and not only articulate the pain that you've been through, but articulate the solutions. And yall are masters at it. God's gifted you with this, so just. I praise God for you and I'm thankful for what you're doing. This is a great, great cause. I want to encourage people to be involved and be a part of this. simonslaw.org simonslaw.org. That's where you can, can learn more. And the timing is fantastic ladies, because there's a, there's an increase in the movement and the recognition of parental rights on health decisions. And of course the vaccine issue plays into this because more and more people are realizing I want have informed consent on every one of those. doses that could potentially go into my child's body. So this whole facade of turning our kids over to the state or to the physician or whoever and letting them make the decisions of just trusting they're going to do the best thing that has been blown apart. And so this is a perfect time to pursue exactly what y'all are doing. I would think the market is ripe, meaning the legislators are more open to hearing these stories and the momentum, man, we could build some real momentum to get this done in so many states so quickly. Final thoughts from y' all. 

Sandi Enzminger [00:20:39] Well, like you said, this is an opportune time. So we need financial partners. You go on our website and you can sign up and donate. Sign up to get on our mailing list. You can stay informed of what we're doing, what states we have action in and be able to write those legislators and stuff and hear stories as we gather them from other families and stuff. Most importantly, I mean, we found like taking Tabitha and- and presenting her to people and letting them see her. This is what we're fighting for. And that stuff takes money. So yeah, we absolutely just covet and people's generous contributions to help us be able to make those trips and be able talk to legislators and go to those committee hearings when it is, or even to grassroots people who are just trying to get organized. You know, we need the financial support Thank you for watching. and end the prayer, absolutely. 

Rick Green [00:21:38] Amen, amen. Sheryl, final word, go ahead. 

Sandi Enzminger [00:21:41] Yeah, and also too, when it comes down to it, when we're out there testifying at the hearings, and we will get unanimous votes, because, end of the story, nobody wants to be left in the dark. Nobody wants to find out that this happened to their child after the fact. We don't want Simon's story repeated. So this could be happening while they're in the hospital and they may not even know. So it's just one of those things too. If somebody wants to get involved, if they want to testify and support a Simon's law, we would love to have their story. We're always looking for volunteers because, you know, Sandy and I can't do it all. And, uh, we do have a great group of people who are already helping us. But like she said, I mean, it takes time, it takes money, and this has been a grassroots from, from the start. And we just need to get the word out there and anyone who's willing to help, and especially those legislators, I love talking to them. So if there's a legislator out there and you are not a Simon Safe State, please reach out to us because we would be honored if you would carry my son Simon's bill. 

Rick Green [00:22:51] simonslaw.org. And Sheryl, we have a ton of legislators that listen to this program. So we will get the word out. So thank you for that. God bless you, ladies. Thanks for coming on. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:24:08] Welcome back to the Wallbuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us today. Tough topic today, guys, but man, I'm so encouraged by the end. And you can hear the joy. They got joy in the fight and I love the strategy. How about that? You know, they tell you that kid shouldn't even be alive. You just take the kid in there and have them testify right there in front of the, in front of that legislative body and just give that evidence. And David, you were talking about the down syndrome on the, on the kid that they did let die, you know, we all have friends or family and many of our listener have a kid in their family with Down syndrome and we've seen the joy that they bring to families and churches and the community and the idea that these doctors or whoever would make that decision is just awful. I'm so glad to see the victories legislatively. 

David Barton [00:24:51] Yeah, and you know, I was thinking about this too because this is bad for a lot of reasons. I mean, parental rights are there. That's God given. That's constitution protected. The courts have protected that since way back at the time the pilgrims landed. I mean that's been one of our inherent rights is the right of the parents to direct the education upbringing of children. The court said that a number of times. And now we have these experts that are telling us how to educate our kids, what to do with the medicine, et cetera. And I remember what Jesus said. He said, look, whatever you've done to the least of one of these, you've to me. And the way we treat the least, and that would be kids with Down syndrome or other syndromes or problems, whatever they may be. I mean, treating them. And I just saw an article that just caught my attention where that in Canada now, they have euthanized or done assisted suicide on several dozens of people who have dementia. Assisted suicide means you're assisting in a suicide the person wishes that if you have dementia, how do you make that choice? How do you the choice that I want to go ahead and die somebody else is making that medical decision for you And that is absolutely wrong. There is an inalienable right to life. We believe that with the unborn We believe also with with children and with the adults and others It's not up to us to take life. God God will do that in his time. It's pointing at a man and wants to die but in the meantime, we need to be protecting life and that should be the position we have. So if your state doesn't have a Simons law, start talking to your legislators and try to get one that's a really good law, really helpful. 

Rick Green [00:26:21] Yeah, David. So there are legislative solutions here. Most states haven't done this yet. So, you know, if you're listening to this program and you're curious, what a great way to get involved and make a difference. And we just want to thank Sheryl and Sandi for being so courageous and so effective for fighting well and winning the day. Really a really neat story to hear from them, but let's make it real all the way across the country. Thanks so much for listening today. You've been listening to The WallBuilders Show.