Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's the WallBuilders Show taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical historical and constitutional perspective. Check out our websites today at wall builders.com and wall builders.show. I'm Rick Green here with Tim Barton and David Barton. We're going to get to some of the news of the day, but really encourage you to visit the website because you need to dig in right now. You need to press the gas. Don't be those. You know, those folks that are really excited about the election and then when the elections over, okay, great. I'm going to go back to life as normal. Nope. Now is the time to get more educated, get more equipped and get more involved in your community. Start some brush fires of Liberty right there in your community. All the tools are available to you right there at wallbuilders.com. wallbuilders.com for all the tools. And then wallbuilders.show. If you want to catch up on the radio programs we've been doing over the last few weeks and months, and then of course, share those with your friends and family. All right, Tim, I, I've loved getting to see your dad's gray hair in a huge, wonderful picture of all these guys praying for Donald Trump on my church's screen Sunday. Pastor Jimmy was talking about, Hey, there was all these guys praying for, you know, president Trump. And I'm like, wait a minute, that's David Barton's hair right there. I know it's him. And so our whole Patriot Academy section at the church was all pointing at the picture going, uh how cool was that David, you were, and of course you told us about it last week, David, but I hadn't seen the pictures of you there in the oval office. That, that must've been pretty cool. 

Tim Barton [00:01:30] And Rick, yesterday we had staff meeting at wall builders. Uh, my dad was there, uh, which he is not often there for our staff meeting after lunch and he brought the challenge coin. Uh, and so we handed around the challenge court. Everybody got to hold the Donald Trump challenge coin, which also, I mean, just some of this is almost a little surreal on some level. Like this is so cool that, you know, dad, you got to be a part of this. But also one of the things guys we've talked about it, how incredible it is what God is doing in the nation, and even like the history of WallBuilders. Dad, when you started WallBuilders addressing some of the obvious things, when prayer was taken out of school, what did that produce? You had a book called America to Pray or Not to Pray, and then you had the myth of separation, those two books around the same time, some of very first things you did, they kind of formed into original intent over time. But as you acknowledge, when we removed God from education, Education took a nosedive and a lot of very significant things, and this year we've now seen where states are actually working to restore the Bible and prayer back in schools. Obviously, we've been talking about the Ten Commandments going back in school, but even actual prayer times and opportunities for teachers and students to have moments when they can pray and express their own faith without fear of any kind of negative consequences, And all that to say is... It's just amazing that we are now in a place that, you know, dad, would you've been fighting and leading in so many ways for now many decades. Rick, you and I have been more recent newcomers. I mean, you've here in this maybe even a little longer than I have as far as working full-time in WallBuilders. 

Rick Green [00:03:10] I was going to see if you could count those decades or not. 

Tim Barton [00:03:14] Ha ha ha! 

Rick Green [00:03:15] Not as many decades as your dad. 

David Barton [00:03:18] Rick is gonna have to be really careful about talking about my gray hair. I'm gonna take a picture of him and let him see 

Rick Green [00:03:24] There's just no hair in my picture. At least you have, I was thinking like, you're like my dad, David, you and my dad both have like this silver mane. It's like just, you know, like, why didn't I get one of those? 

Tim Barton [00:03:36] You know, but guys, how, how cool it is that we are at a place that we're getting to see some of the actual fruit from some of the believers who've been working literally for decades. I was hearing, somebody over the weekend, we were talking about some of the, the things that have happened in some of the Christian and conservative movement. And they, this gentleman commented, man, if only Rush Limbaugh were alive to see, some of this.  Right? What I instantly thought of was a little bit like the John Quincy Adams story, that duty is ours, results are God's, had it not been for people like a Rush Limbaugh, like James Kennedy, James Dobson. 

Rick Green [00:04:16] Yeah, I was thinking him too. 

Tim Barton [00:04:18] Right, I mean, we can go down the list of some of these people. 

Rick Green [00:04:21] Jerry Falwell, Pat Roberts, and all those guys that, yeah. 

Tim Barton [00:04:25] Exactly. The ones who were engaging and encouraging Christians to engage and obviously, dad, as you've been working to tell the story of American history for so many years, the fact that we are in a place where there is an actual legitimate chance that some of this stuff might be restored to public school education or the fact that you got to be in the White House and actually we might get to have some level of say and encouragement in some of what happens with the 250th anniversary of America, that celebration, some of the stories that should be included. It's just, it's not only amazing what God is doing in the nation, which again, people have been praying for and working for for decades, but the fact that God has allowed us to be a part of it on some level is just absolutely incredible. 

Rick Green [00:05:13] And get to witness it, right? Like, I mean, we, we all did this for decades, knowing, okay, if it happens in our lifetime, great. If not, if we're planting trees that our kids will enjoy the shade of and not us, that's fine too, we would have been okay with being in John Quincy Adams shoes. But here we are guys, and we're getting to witness it and still be a part of it. And it's just incredible. I love that Tim really good take. 

David Barton [00:05:34] Yeah, it's a great turn for sure. But now, now the work starts too. I mean, this is not a time you get to coast. This is the time when you really get to work and JQA laid a lot of the groundwork, but it didn't get easier when he, when he passed. I mean it was, it got even more polarized, but at least the winning side won and, and that was a big deal. And so there's still a lot, of, of work to do, you know, even being in DC and I was talking with some of the, the cabinet,  offices today. There is still so much to be fought even around them as they're doing all this stuff and the degree of a fraud. And, you know, I was just, I just saw an article of Pam Bondi and she was pointing to the small business administration. They, they have just uncovered $300 million of fraud, not waste, but fraud there, and it was such that even a nine month old child had been approved for a hundred thousand dollar loan. And so when you're looking at that, she points out, that's fraud, that's not incompetence, that is fraud. 

Tim Barton [00:06:44] Now, wait a second. Maybe this baby was like, I'm going to start a diaper factory. Cause clearly the baby knew how much diapers were a necessity. I mean, like, Hey, we don't know what happened with that loan. Who are you to say it's fraud? Let's investigate a little bit more. 

Rick Green [00:07:00] I thought I was an optimist. 

David Barton [00:07:04] Well, you know, the, the way that Elon answered that, he said, well, it's just a precocious kid, you knows, it just, it, it was making, but the point she made, I thought was so good. She said, okay, announcement, this is so much fraud and we've uncovered in so many agencies, we are coming after you, this has not something we're just going to dismiss as wow, what a waste of money. She said we're going to find who you are. We're going the final, that money's coming and we're coming after. And by the way, something else she announced today that I think is a really good announcement. She said, and all this protesting and stuff that's going on, not just the protest, but a lot of it's turning violent. And it's destroyed, it's going after lives, injuring people, et cetera. She announced today that they will now start seeking the death penalty for violent crimes. And I think that is such an appropriate thing to do based on Ecclesiastes, where the scripture says that when you don't punish someone. you encourage more wickedness. And this is the kind of stuff that they haven't been doing anything to provide a deterrent and there's, you know, you get your hand slapped or whatever, but they're now making this into a deterent where that I think that will start driving down a lot of crime because nobody wants to lose their life over a stupid protest. Even if they're getting paid for the protest, it's not going to be worth it. So they have elevated the risk level to a degree that I think it sends a message on law and order. And we really need to be back to that place of law and order because it's just gotten out of hand in so many areas. And now they're just saying, well, you know, it's protest or what? No, it is not. Some of this stuff has gotten very, very violent. And so it is headed back, I think, in a very positive direction. But I was really pleased to hear what Pam said today. Not only in that death penalty aspect of we're not going to have this violent crime anymore. If you're going to destroy something, you're gonna be in trouble yourself. But also the fact that they're now going to prosecute for fraud, because that's another thing. Nobody wants to lose their freedom and spend the rest of their life for 20 years or 15 years in jail, uh, over trying to get $50,000 or whatever in a fraudulent manner. So it's going to be really good to get back to law and order. I think that's a very, very positive thing. And I appreciate what, what Pam has done. It's moving the right direction. 

Rick Green [00:09:26] Yeah, you know, David, I was thinking, you know, with not only her approach, you know, rebuilding the respect for law and order and rebuilding faith in the institutions to go after this kind of stuff. And, and I thought, you know, for a little while I was thinking what's happened over the last few years is so novel and never happened. But you know as you taught me a long time ago, I mean, there's nothing new under the sun and even this stuff they're doing to Tesla right now and, and, and the bombs in Austin, Texas and just all this crazy stuff. I hate to say it guys, but that's been the Democrat playbook since the KKK, right? I mean, you, you guys did a deep dive on this and the amount of terrorism that they did to prevent blacks from voting or from being able to participate in, in, in society and all of that. I mean it, it, It kind of smells like that to me. I know these aren't, these aren' t Democrat party officials, but they've been encouraged and TIFA, I mean all of these, all of these tactics. have been encouraged by Schumer and the things that he said and other Democrat leaders. Have y'all sensed that? It kind of feels like a lot of the books that y' all wrote about the KKK, that kind of stuff happening now. 

Tim Barton [00:10:31] I think there's no doubt, Rick, to your point that this is not a new strategy or tactic. In fact, not only, as you say, we can connect it to things that KKK did, things that Democrats encouraged and promoted through various points in American history, I think that there's also an interesting spiritual connection. Because in Ephesians, it tells us that we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, that there is something deeper than just people fighting people in many of these situations. And Jesus actually made a contrast. He said, I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly. The thief comes to steal, to kill, and to destroy. What God does is God produces life. God is a creative God and God is always growing, building, and developing. It's the devil that wants to kill and steal and destroy. That kind of death and destruction model comes from the devil. And the reason I point this out is because there's a very fleshly nature in all of us. At times all of us have probably given in a fleshly moments and we're like I'm gonna break something I'm going to destroy something and this is not to say that we can't enjoy like Shooting Tanner right with one of our guns and watching it blow up like this is a little different When you're talking about destroying someone's property when you're taking about physical attacks violent attacks on individuals because they're wearing a MAGA hat or something else and this not just a Marxist or communist tactic, although it is There's also something spiritual in the midst of this. And I think one of the things that unfortunately we've had some disconnects on in maybe the last several decades is the reality that a lot of the things we are battling are a spiritual battle as well as an evil ideology and philosophy, and we've been able to identify in some things, man, obviously communism, Marxism, those are evil ideologies that have led to the more death and destruction in the last hundred years in virtually anything else in the history of mankind, but that very evil ideology, its origins would come from the devil who his very objective is steal kill and destroy and the contrast is when you're looking, and there's great levels of irony in this, people that are often spiritually blinded, when we look and we're like, man, why don't these people have common sense? And I'm not saying that everybody that's dumb is spiritually blind, but certainly in some of these, when you have people that have been arguing for years, if not decades, that we need to save the planet, we need go green, and then Elon was like their God figure for many of them, because he had these Teslas, these green automobiles. But as soon as he supported someone they didn't like, now they're gonna take the very thing they've been promoting, encouraging, and praising, and they're going to destroy the number one electric vehicle maker, his vehicles, and by the way, this is not even an attack on Tesla because Tesla is a publicly traded entity. People own Tesla, not Elon, I mean, obviously Elon makes a benefit in whatever else, But yeah, it's like- that this is not just Elon's small business. This is actually a business that people own, that people run. You're impacting people's lives. You're destroying people's cars. And again, we can get into depths and levels of irony in this, but it's, it's where you see the deception in people's lives that they're not promoting an idea to the extent that they are, they have fallen captive to some very evil ideologies. And if you acknowledge like, hey, this is a pretty evil ideology, they would turn that venom on you because of the spiritual blinders they're wearing. And this is why in the midst of the great things of like Pam Bondi saying, hey, we're enforcing laws to like the full extent. We're not letting you get away with this. It's great that there are standards, it's great that there is going to be justice in the consequences for those actions. But in the mist of us promoting and saying we need to enforce the law as people of faith, we also need to say, we need to make sure that we are in prayer on this too, because there is a spiritual battle raging as well as a battle of ideologies with communism and Marxism versus the free market and inalienable rights. 

David Barton [00:14:51] Yeah, and Tim, I'm really glad you wrote back that spiritual perspective, because that's really important. You mentioned we don't wrestle flesh and blood. So it's not a Democrat-Republican contrast that's going here. It's those that don't have any kind of a fear of God or a God consciousness, they become their own God. And the scripture says at that point, they do that which is right in their own eyes. No longer is an objective moral standard. No longer, is there a standard outside themselves. They will determine their own rights and wrongs. their own penalties and judgment for whatever that they do. I mean, they start saying, I'm going to be the one to execute justice on these guys who don't believe like I do. And that's, that's wrong. It's just anarchy. So it really is a spiritual battle. And even as we're talking Rick earlier about the Democrats and where they are, you know, there's a bunch of goofy Republicans too. And it all, they're all based really around whether there is a God consciousness. If you I don't have any kind of a god conscious you know, that God consciousness is one of those things that help you say, hey, I wanna treat others the way I wanna be treated. And so many on the left are completely oblivious to the fact that you sow and reap. That's a law, the law of harvest. It's a long the country, whatever you plant, you're gonna reap. And if you plant hate, and if you plan evil, and if plant harshness, and you plant crime, that's what you're going to reap. And it's gonna come back to you. not just a little bit, it's like you plant a kernel of corn, you're gonna get a whole plant of corn or it's gonna be maybe a thousand kernels. It's gonna come back to you to a much bigger thing. That's just the laws of nature. And so remembering that this really is a spiritual struggle and that this is where we talk about it in 2 Thessalonians that the God of this world is blind in their eyes, but they believe in illusion. And when they believe it's illusion, they behave in such a way that it brings judgment on themselves, they do it to themselves. They live a lifestyle that ends in all sorts of disasters, health conditions, et cetera. So remembering that this is a spiritual struggle, not R versus D, and it's not conservatives versus liberals, it's being God conscious versus being really kind of antithetical and having an antipathy toward God quite frankly. And that's where so many of them are now. And because they hate God, they hate god's people, including Jews and Christians. Those are two groups that they're extremely intolerant of. So thanks to Tim for bringing that back to that spiritual contrast, because that is where it is. We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. It's not against Democrats. It's against spiritual principalities and powers, including in a bunch of Republicans as well. And they just, they need to be more God conscious and more golden rule oriented and more good Samaritan thoughtful. All those teachings that Jesus gave are so good for the whole culture. 

Rick Green [00:17:41] so many opportunities to do exactly those things in the culture. And of course, we've talked about them, Ten Commandments, the national motto, the chaplains and schools. I mean, you go down the list, and so many states considering that. So, you know, as you, you, we talked about, I mean we're getting to see some of the things that we've been fighting for, for a long time, and they're coming to fruition. Hey, quick break, guys. We're hot topics to cover from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective when we return. Stay with us. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show

Rick Green [00:19:13] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Covering those hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. What's another hot topic we need to hit today, guys? 

Tim Barton [00:19:21] All right, well guys, one of the things that I've seen in headlines a couple times recently,  and, and I think we probably will see more and more of is some of these tariffs and, uh certainly in the midst of conversations, Rick, you and I even talked about this some off air, um, is, is the strategy of tariffs, whether you're using it as leverage or as a, maybe an economic means, the benefit of it, what it looks like isn't free trade better, but if they're gonna. you know, if some other nation's gonna have a 25%, a 50%, a 200% tariff on our goods, then it's not free and fair trading. So then adding a tariff to match their tariff actually makes it more of a free trade scenario. So how does that work? But in the midst of this, I was talking to a pastor recently and the notion of tariffs, and we might have covered this a little bit, but I just saw a headline as we were on break. And so it was fresh in my about Trump's tariff agenda, as it reminded me, but one of the things in the Bible that when it gets into taxes and Jesus was questioned about paying the temple tax, and he tells Peter, hey, Peter, I want you to go down, catch a fish, first fish, coin out of the mouth, and you're gonna pay our tax. A lot of people, especially people of faith, we've probably at some point heard that story if not, I know it's a crazy story, you can find it in the Gospel of Matthew, Go look it up and check it out. Rick, one of the interesting things is, Jesus asks a question to Peter in this moment. And in the question he asked Peter, and I actually probably should look it up to make sure I'm quoting it correctly, not just paraphrasing it, but I'm gonna paraphrase it until I look it it up. But he says, "'Do the kings tax the sons or the foreigners?' And Peter says, "'Well, of course it's the foreigners.' And Jesus said, "'Well I agree, "'but since we don't want to offend them, Go and catch a fish, corn in the mouth, and we're gonna pay the taxes. But it's interesting because a tariff is a tax on foreign goods. And the idea that in America, when Jesus is asking like this semi-rhetorical question, what to them is an obvious answer, is like, well, the king doesn't tax their own sons, they don't tax own people, they tax the foreigners. We oftentimes read the Bible and don't connect. what the reality is of where that application is. So like, what is he really saying? He's making a connection that it's obvious that we should be taxing the people that are bringing goods in, not just taxing people that are making goods here because that benefits us and we're not there. We shouldn't be taking their resources away. But it definitely made me think of this idea of tariffs because if we think about taxes in the Bible, there are some taxes in Bible that we could certainly argue are biblical, like a flat tax, a capitation tax. what was originally under the constitution, that's a biblical tax. But once you hit on things like the progressive income tax, that doesn't follow a biblical model. The Bible says that to him who has, more should be given. Like the people that were the most productive, they got the biggest rewards for being the most productve. You don't punish the people that are your best producers. Not only is it illogical. It actually doesn't follow a Biblical model. And we can go through a lot of areas in tact code and look at scripture and get ideas and framing from scripture of maybe how we should be guided in our thoughts according to what are Biblical taxes and what are not. But when it comes to even the tariffs, it's just interesting that so often we can read scripture and, and, and see a story and miss sometimes direct application. And in my mind, this was direct application for tariffs. the idea that Jesus is asking this question of do King's tax sons or foreigners? And the answer was obvious. Well, the King taxes foreigners, not the sons, which is what a tariff is. And I'm only bringing this up. I know this is a weird topic to get into only for a few minutes. But while we were on break and we were looking at just some of breaking headlines and some of the articles, I have seen now a lot of articles. And again, I think we'll continue to see a lot of articles that are covering Trump putting different tariffs on different people and different nations. And I know economists want to argue the best strategies, tariff, no tariffs, free trade. How does that work? And I get it. I understand that conversation. I understand the topic and I have some opinion as well. I think Trump has actually done very well at using the tariff as a kind of a mechanism of lever and his negotiations. But again, it's just interesting. The Bible does actually speak and give guidance on some of these issues. maybe even to the extent we could argue that a tariff is not an unbiblical idea, as the example we find in Matthew, even when Peter is told to go catch a fish and coin in the mouth, just, if people want to go just read those couple verses, it's interesting to see how that directly can and should apply, maybe even the way we think about the tariff. 

David Barton [00:24:24] And so capital gains, I mean, Jesus made it really clear that if you're productive, you get rewarded. And if you are not productive, then those are the ones that you maybe tax higher in the sense that you take more away from you. If you're not producing, then we don't want to reward that, but we have a culture now that wants to punish those who are the most productive and wants to reward and give to those who were the least productive. And that's not how you create more productivity. And of course, productivity is what creates wealth for individuals, what creates well for nations, for communities, everything else. And so there's so much as Tim as you point out, so much good tax policy, economic policy, and it's a real problem. I think when people just read the Bible as nothing more than a spiritual guidebook, it is that at the least, but it's, it's a guidebook on everything related to life and living, including crime and criminal justice and economics. 

Tim Barton [00:25:17] Well, and it's recognizing, too, that obviously the Bible was written at a certain time and a certain place for certain people, but because it is the inspired Word of God, God is able to reveal such deeper truths that can have great application for us in our life where we are. It's one of the many reasons we encourage people to read the Bible. Not just so you can see what Paul wrote to some church, you know, thousands of years ago. No, it's because... Some of that guidance has direct application for how we live our life. Some of what Jesus said in the Gospels has direct application for how we live our life, and that as you mentioned, not just how we live our life spiritually, how we live our life practically, even dealing with economic policies, maybe even dealing with here. 

Rick Green [00:26:01] I love the way that Jesus taught, you know, he, he said, I'll make you fishers have been to a bunch of fishermen. And then he tells a fisherman to go get the fish to get the coin. Now, if he told Tim Barton, I'm going to have you, uh, go get this coin. He would have said, Hey, when you're skinning that deer, you're going to find a gold coin, right? If it had been me or Tim or maybe even any Texan, it would have been skinning a deer, maybe instead of fishing, I don't know. You know, my wife, Kara's going on a fishing tournament tomorrow with her dad. And so for her, it would be Kara go find that fish. So anyway, I love the way Jesus taught these things. I never caught that tariff thing, Tim. That is really good insight. We're going to talk more about that one. Thanks everybody for listening today. You've been listening to the WallBuilders Show