Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the WallBuilders show. We're taking on the hot topics of the day for my biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. You can learn more about us at our website, wallbuilders .com. While you're there, check out the resources. We kind of missed it last month. We usually in February, we do several shows on black history and man, we just got so busy. There was so much good news coming from DC. I don't think we did one. And so there's some really good materials on the website though. There's the American history in black and white. Setting the record straight there's all kinds of articles so be sure and check that out and then we've got a guest today it's gonna talk about that as well and Tim you're gonna have to remind me man I'm I'm getting old bro so is it still DVD or CD or how do you get American history black and white is it a download what's the deal. 

Tim Barton [00:00:53] Well, primarily we would say, go for the book. And the book you can find. 

Rick Green [00:00:58] Wait, wait, wait, we still have paper? We still do a book with actual paper? You can turn the page. 

Tim Barton [00:01:04] Yes, that would be the most reliable thing you can get from us when it comes to acquiring that content because we are working to redigitize some of the things. It's been on DVD and CD, as you mentioned, and those were originally filmed in lower resolution, so trying to put those in a place to stream them was not great because of the resolution quality. So one of our projects this year is to refilm, and maybe even updates several of those, um, different talks and presentations and, and covering some of that history. So hopefully that will be available at some point in the near future. We've got an entire catalog we are going to have to go back and, , redo to kind of modernize and digitize, make them available so people can stream them, on their various platforms and to hopefully make it a way to reach more people and get that out there. But Rick, as you mentioned, we've been literally since the inauguration, we, every week we've been talking about what president Trump's been doing and it's not a lot different. I mean, even over the weekend, we're, we're seeing stories break. There's stuff happening, uh, that sums up behind the scenes. And now even stuff happening around the world, stuff that's happening over in Syria, there's just been so much going on and not to downplay the reality of black history month. One of the things that was really fun to do, that I think, Rick, you'll have to remind me, I think it's the third week of biblical citizenship, when we get into the black history, I think that's when it is, but we talk about in the bib cit class, that to understand America, if you try to tell the story of American history and even like the American revolution, and you're excluding some significant contributors, because maybe like Woodrow Wilson, who's a racist, and he says we're only going to tell the stories of white people. Well, if that's the model you're taking, then you have to ignore the fact that John Adams writing to Thomas Jefferson said the most pivotal moment, like the spark that led to this whole revolution. He said, it wasn't, it wasn't the battles of Lexington or Concord where you have the shot around the world and the battle at Concord bridge. He said it wasn't the victory at Saratoga. It wasn't even the capture of Cornwallis, the victory at Yorktown. John Adams writing to Jefferson says the most pivotal moment, the spark that caused this whole thing was the first blood that was shed on King Street. Well, King Street's where the Boston massacre happened. That is where Crispus Attucks, one of those noted patriots was opposing the British. He was considered the first one to have been killed in the cause of liberty. Well, Crispus Attucks was a black man. that literally the American revolution started with the death of a black man. As you go through the revolution, some major noted contributors, uh, actually some of the heroes in many cases of some of these battles were some of the black Patriots, but even the end of the revolution, the last major battle was the battle of Yorktown. It's where Washington captured Cornwallis. Well, the only reason Washington is able to capture Cornwallis is because he had intelligence that let him know Cornwallis was going to be there. Where did that intelligence come from? It's largely credited to a guy named James Armistead Lafayette. Really, his name is James.He had been a slave under the Armistead family. That's where the name James Armistead came from. That was a connection, uh, to who the slave masters had been. But then when he finally, at the end of the war, he finally does get his freedom. There's kind of drama and ordeal there. When he finally gets his freedom, he's friends with Lafayette and Lafayette actually encourages him. If you're looking for a last name, you know, let me, let me offer mine if you need a last name. And so he became known as James Lafayette, but he was a black man who literally was a spy. The first double spy in American history, who got George Washington, the information that let him know that Cornwall's was a Yorktown. The American revolution began with the death of a black patriot. The American revolution was one in large part, thanks to the intelligence work of a black patriot. You can't tell the story of American history and not include the black Patriots and yet somehow... In a lot of the modern woke academia, we have ignored so many of the noted patriots. And dad, I know that you going through and setting a reconstruction and even the birth of the Republican party, you've done a lot to recover some of the history of, of really the Republican party, but also the history of some of these black American patriots. And I'm just curious, dad, what, what was some of the initial fines for you that, That's led you to go wait a second there's more to this story because I remember the first time that I found out that there were there were black patriots and the Massachusetts Minutemen. The Minutemen I knew about growing up. I'd write these guys that are ready to go and they're drilling and doing. I thought, wait a second, black, the first I learned was one black patriot, Lemuel Haynes had been part of that. And he's an incredible man. Lots of stories there by itself. But when I found out he was a, one of the Massachusetts Minutemen, I thought, well, who else was there? Come to find out. There were many other black patriots there. And it really opened my eyes to recognize how much had been left out of so much of the modern narrative. So dad, for you. What was maybe some of the beginning stories for you that led you to realize there is so much more here than we know? 

David Barton [00:06:20] Well, it actually goes back to the time when Rick was thinking about getting into the legislature. So that goes back a few years at that point in time. I was one of the, the leaders, one of the two leaders in Texas for the state Republican party. You have a male leader and a female leader. I was the male leader. And so as a team, I was, I was working with, uh, this, the state chairman, great lady Susan Wheddington, and I was over the Capitol one day and I was just, it's kind of, I didn't really want to go to the sessions and and see what was going on. I was over at the Capitol talking to some folks, and I just started wandering around the Capitol, kind of exploring. And as I got back over on the, I think it was a Senate side, there's a stairway there on the Senate side that goes upstairs, and I just wondered behind the stairway. I got under it and behind it, was looking around, and I found all these class photo pictures from the 1870s. Now, class photo, what I mean to say is, you know, the legislative class of 1993, they've got all their pictures up playing another one. legislative class of 1995 and et cetera. Well, these were back in the 18, really in the 1870s. And I was looking at these pictures and they were all hidden and you could not see any of them. You had to find a way under the stairs, get back in the stairs and it was almost like a closet. And as I started looking, I saw all these black faces looking at me and they were all Republican senators or Republican representatives. I go, wait a minute, I'm in the Republican party, leading the state party? I've never seen this stuff before. And so I started looking up some of the guys and found Shocking information for me at that time. Since then we've documented so much and have so many original documents from those guys, but literally found out that every single Republican party in the Southern states were started by black individuals, not white individuals. In the case of Texas, we found out it was Houston and Houston was started July the 4th of 1868 by 150 blacks and 20 whites, but it was blacks who took the leadership and that was every Southern Republican party. 

Tim Barton [00:08:17] Dad, just to clarify, when you're saying that the blacks were the ones that took the leadership, these black Americans fighting for equality, and that was kind of the idea from the Republican party, there definitely were white people involved. And I do want to highlight this because there are some who would say on maybe the anti -American side of the aisle, that it was black people that fought for their freedom and black people that fought for their equality. And there were no white people involved, which of course is rather silly. Many of the leading abolitionists leading up into the Civil War, the most noted names and faces were white Americans. Now, just because a lot of people can talk about that doesn't mean that they weren't there. And so even those early state legislatures, even though in many cases it was black individuals who were the head of the party, there definitely were white faces and white voices there that were part of the process and encouraging it along the way. So again, I'm saying that because if you, for example, or Washington, D .C. If you go to the Smithsonian Museum of African -American history, they have this part where they say essentially there wasn't a white person against slavery until the 1820s, which is ludicrous on so many levels because we can take from the time of the pilgrims forward and highlight some of the white abolitionists fighting in slavery, fighting for freedom, not to take away from the fact that in the South The majority of the Republican parties were black because so much of the white population in the South, they were pro -slavery in many cases, and therefore they were very pro -democrat in many cases, and it was the minority of whites that were in the South at that time, in most places, that were really strongly anti -slavery, really strongly pro -equality. However, the majority of black people in the Southern States, that's the exact position they had. They were very anti -slavery. Again, largely speaking. And they were very pro -equality. And that's why you find the majority of the makeup of those early Republican parties, there were so many black individuals outnumbering the whites that were there, but dad, to your point, the Republican party in many of these Southern States was really kind of founded and ran by a lot of these really incredible black leaders. 

David Barton [00:10:26] Yeah, and there's so much cool documentation. I mean, if you go over to South Carolina, Robert Smalls, who was an early black congressman of Reconstruction, he started the Republican Party in South Carolina. And South Carolina, 1868, there's actually a card out done by the Ku Klux Klan. There were 63 faces shown, Republicans that needed to be taken out. And 50 of them were black and 13 of them were white. And they were all state legislators. And so by the time you get to 1876, you'll find. that there's been at least a thousand black elected officials in America by 1876. Now try to find that in most textbooks today is very hard to do. Even as you look at black history posters that were there in February, most black history posters today are full of 20th century people. They don't even know who was there before that. So you're going to have MLK, you're going to have Rosa Parks, you're going to have WB Du Bois, you're going to have Barack Obama and good for them. That's part of black history. But what happened to all the 300 years before that, where you had 1641, the first black elected to office, Mathias de Souza in Maryland, elected by a white community. What happened to him? We just don't know those people today. So it's fun to see. And one of the things that I've noticed that's really starting to happen in the last few years is people are starting to rediscover black history and not just us. Guy we're gonna have on today, Patrick Poole, has got a new book out on black heroes. And there are people finally rediscovering what's in our history and not just believing what they saw in their own textbooks, there's a lot more to history than what we've been teaching for the last 50 to 70 years. And Patrick Poole's got a great perspective on some heroes that we just don't hear much about. 

Rick Green [00:11:57] Yeah. And I'll say, guys, I knew nothing about any of this, David, till you started studying it. And then I saw that, that, uh, that hit card that, that was in your, in your museum of those, I think it was South Carolina legislators where the KKK was, you know, wanted to kill all the Republicans there. And of course all the blacks were, were Republicans. And it's so piqued my interest. And then we talked earlier about that, the materials that are available, wallbuilders .com, even the reenactments of that, that, that Congress was the first blacks in Congress and so many of the stories. It's just powerful, man. And I think honestly, wall builders brought this to the attention of more people than had ever happened. I mean, I mean, it had literally been lost in history and I was so glad y 'all did that. I'm glad to see these other ones come out as well as well. So we'll talk to Patrick about his book and encourage people to continue studying this area. Quick break. We'll be right back. You're listening to The Wall Builder Show. 

Rick Green [00:14:45] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Patrick Poole is with us. Great new book out on the black Patriots course here at WallBuilders. We've been talking about those guys for a while. These are the stories that need to be told. Patrick, thank you for writing the book and thanks for coming on wall builders. No, thanks, Rick. Hey, so this is, uh, this is an area I bet you 99% of Americans have no idea that there were great black Patriots in America's history. These kids are told, you know, it was all a bunch of rich white guys that did everything and so you should hate white people and you know, if you, if these, if little black kids knew these stories, they'd have an ownership in the American dream. If little white kids knew these stories, they wouldn't have this false white guilt. Anyway, I'm just thrilled that you're doing what you're doing. And I hope the book does incredibly well. Tell us what got you into this. 

Patrick Poole [00:15:26] Well, uh, I started researching, uh, actually the patriots who fought at Bunker Hill and, and as I got into it, I, you know, I kept running into these. Uh, some were free men, some were slaves. Um, but, um, and finally dozens of them. And I'm like, you know, there's gotta be more to this because, you know, I think I'm a pretty astute student of the American Revolution and this was all new to me. And, um, you know, I've, I've been digging for the past four years and I still haven't, uh, reached bottom, you know, and, and I think it's just an incredible story for Americans to hear. 

Rick Green [00:16:07] Yeah, I think, you know, Tim, Tim Barton teaches in our biblical citizenship class. He talks about, you know, the American Revolution essentially starts with the death of a black patriot and ends with the espionage of a black patriot. And, uh, and if it's just be so cool if everybody knew that, um, speaking of Bucker Hill, I was just reading about this and essentially we've got you today because I was just reading about this, I didn't realize there was some controversy about whether it was Peter Salem or this other, uh,Salem Poor. Like who was who was the hero at Bunker Hill? And I guess question, I don't know if that if you got into that when you were doing your research or not, but either way, there's a great story there to be had. I know, I know I've always thought it was Peter Salem, but then, but then I began to hear about the Salem Poor. Anyway, I didn't know if that was one of the guys that you covered for the book. 

Patrick Poole [00:16:53] In fact, I covered both of them. Peter Salem had the attributions early on in the local histories. But what's particular about Salem Poor is that in December 75, as there were these discussions about whether Black patriots are going to be allowed to enlist and be in the Continental Army, the commanders at Battle Hill sent a letter to the Massachusetts provincial. uh, Congress and said, hey, there's this guy, Salem Poor,  we commanded him at Bunker Hill and he's a brave and gallant soldier and he deserves recognition, for his heroism. And,  it's a document that's in the Massachusetts state archives and I put a copy of it in the book. But Peter Salem also played a pretty important role in an event that's, we're coming up on the term 50th anniversary is Lexington and Concord. And, uh, he was there at the old North bridge with, the Framingham militia, firing the shot that heard around the world. And, when I began researching this topic, I ran into another black patriot by the name of Prince Estabrook who literally was that the first shots of, of the American Revolution at Lexington Green, he was part of John Parker's Lexington militia. He was a slave at the time and he was wounded, by the British fire there and, he ended up serving multiple terms basically until 1783 when the British evacuated, New York. 

Rick Green [00:18:39] So he essentially was there from the first shot all the way through. 

Patrick Poole [00:18:43] Yes, absolutely. And there were others, guys like Jude Hall from New Hampshire. He escaped slavery, joined John Stark's regiment, New Hampshire regiment, fought at Bunker Hill, and he ended up being one of the last soldiers discharged at the end of the war. 

Rick Green [00:19:05] Yeah, I noticed in your in your book you talk about that there were I think you said dozens of black patriots at Bunker Hill I didn't realize that either. I've always thought of it, you know It was just Peter Salem or Salem Poor or one or two, but so there were quite a few of them there 

Patrick Poole [00:19:18] Yes. And, I kind of go over some of those individuals in the book, the national park service actually commissioned a study, about 20 years ago by a research friend named George Quintal and, the study's freely available, you can find it online. And he went back and went into the, the muster rolls and identified about more than a hundred, black Patriots and, Native Americans who fought at Bunker Hill. 

Rick Green [00:19:50] and and and all the way through i think you know even i didn't realize another one you mentioned was at you know the crossing of the delaware that there were black patriots fighting there as well 

Patrick Poole [00:19:59] Yeah. And, and in fact, Peter Jennings, black Patriot from New Jersey, he ended up giving a very detailed account of the crossing of the Delaware, the Patriot victories at Trenton and Princeton, in his pensions, affidavit, which he filed decades later. And, it's one of the best accounts of what actually happened. And, you know, he, he too ended up being in a lot of these major battles, after, after the crisis and the 10 crucial days. And, you know, he was at, Valley forge, et cetera. 

Rick Green [00:20:39] What would you say, Patrick, what would be your goal for the takeaway? People that read the book, what do you hope they really walk away with? 

Patrick Poole [00:20:48] I think this is an important part of the American story. I think for the black community, I think I would hope that they would see that, you know, they're not strangers here. I mean, this is something that their ancestors fought and in many cases died for. You know, one of the things I have in the book was I identified more than 50 black Patriots who died at Valley Forge, which is when You know, Georgia Washington was having a hard time keeping any semblance of an army together at that point. And, by, by the time they leave Valley Forge and, start pursuing the British, you know, through New Jersey and the battle of Monmouth, there were more than 700 black Patriots who fought at the battle of Monmouth. So, you know, I think this is an important story, uh, not just for black Americans, but for all Americans to see that, Hey, you know, There's - This is something we need to recognize, something we need to honor. 

Rick Green [00:21:47] Yeah I think it definitely destroys the narrative that has been kind of the woke narrative of the last few years of tearing down America and all of those things. We tell the good, the bad, the ugly here, so we don't run away from any of the bad, we know that's there as well. But to shy away from this part that's so good and that, like I said earlier, gives ownership to the American dream. Um, is, uh, is really a disservice, uh, not, not only to the black community, but, but, but to all Americans. So I, I, I love this. I mean, I was the first time David Barton told one of these stories. I was shocked, I mean, because I, you know, of course didn't learn any of that in school. Nobody ever talked about that. And I'm just, you know, thankful that you're putting it out there and, and getting more people educated on this best place you, Amazon to get the book?

Patrick Poole [00:22:33]  yeah, it's available in paperback, hardback and Kindle. 

Rick Green [00:22:37] Black Patriots, Recovering a Lost History of the American Revolution by Patrick Poole. Patrick, God bless you, man. Thanks for doing the book. 

Patrick Poole [00:22:45] Thanks for having me, Rick. 

Rick Green [00:22:46] We'll be right back folks, stay with us. Back with Dave Barton and Tim Barton in just a moment. 

Rick Green [00:23:56] Welcome back to the WallBuidlers Show thanks for staying with us, and thanks to Patrick Poole for joining us to talk about his book, and of course, get that book, get the materials at Wobbler, share these stories, go through the Biblical Citizenship class, get to, I think, Tim, honestly, that week that you're talking about, that week three where you teach on this, I've probably heard more comments about that than anything else in the class. It shocks people when they learn that, and your summary at the end is so good where you say, you know, the Revolution literally began with the death of a Black Patriot, ends with the work of a double agent blck patriot - And to leave that out is just I mean it's it's terrible to leave that out for not just little black boys and girls but every kid in America should know that story. 

Tim Barton [00:24:33] Well, one thing I really appreciate about Patrick's book is that at the end of every chapter, he actually has pictures and images, some of them handwritten documents, some of them of some of the monuments and statues that are there. And so, you know, sometimes people talk about bringing the receipts. When somebody says something, right? I mean, DOGE has been going through and showing the waste and they're bringing the receipts. Like here it is, here's what they spent. Patrick has done a really good job. And this is something obviously we care about at WallBuilders, people documenting. going back to original sources, showing footnotes in this, not only does he footnote it, he shows the actual images and pictures and even tells you where these things are. So if you ever want to go on a trip over up and down the East coast, you literally can go and see where some of these statues are, where some of these battlefields took place, where some of these monuments are laid out. It's absolutely incredible to see people going back and recapturing this and he does a great job laying this out. 

David Barton [00:25:28] You know, and the cool thing too, is as people find out that there were heroes, black heroes, they didn't know about back there, they start looking for more. And I remember when we would go to Lexington and Concord back 15, 20 years ago, they said, oh yeah, there was more than a dozen black Patriots at Lexington. Well, now I was there last year and they said, we have now found several dozen more black Patriots at Lexington we didn't know about. And then over at Bunker Hill, they now have several hundred black Patriots that were part of the battle of Bunker Hill that just wouldn't even talked about a decade ago, two decades ago. So they're starting to find great black heroes because now that we know they're back there and you start looking for them, you find that there's a lot more black history than anybody was even thinking about in the last hundred years. Tim, as you said earlier, that was largely the effect of Woodrow Wilson, a racist president, but good news is that stuff is coming back. 

Rick Green [00:26:14] Yeah, and everybody listening right now can be part of bringing that back in. Force multipliers, get this information, share this program from today with your friends and family. Get that biblical citizenship class, get American history in black and white. Lots of great tools there. And I know we have a lot of families that listen, a lot of homeschool parents, a lot of private school administrators and teachers, legislators. All of you have an opportunity to take these materials and get them in the hands of students. Make it part of your curriculum this year. Again, apologize that we missed last month doing it during Black History, but it's never too late to bring these things in and teach folks about it. Thanks for listening today to The WallBuilders Show.