Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. We call it the intersection of faith and culture. And our our faith applies to everything, including all of the cultural aspects around us, political, entertainment, all those things. So always be thinking about that. The Lord is the Lord over everything in our life. And so the Bible applies to each and every one of these areas. So we have a lot of different people on the program. But today we've actually got a congressman. Yesterday we had a a state senator. By the way I'm Rick Greene here with David and Tim Barton. And guys you know yesterday we had Senator King on and we mentioned the Pro-Family Legislators Conference. All of y'all remember this or not. But the whole reason we started that was because we kept hearing all these people all over the country say, I ran for state rep because I read David Barton's original intent, or I ran for the legislature because of this, or I ran for school board or Congress or whatever it might be. Well, another one of those guys with us today, Eric Burleson, he's a U.S. congressman from Missouri and one of the conservative guys really standing firm in Congress. And, you know, he actually spoke at the legislators conference last year, and you guys got to meet him, I guess, a couple years right before that. But, Tim, you were telling me off the air. He he really found us, you know, by listening to radio and reading David's books and listening to. Maybe it was cassette tapes. Is he old enough to. It was. No. Maybe he listened to seed. Maybe he listened to downloads, I don't know. Anyway, it's kind of cool to have him on today. 

Tim Barton [00:01:22] It is really cool. He's one of those guys who is a champion up in Washington, D.C. right now. He is a biblical minded worldview individual, and so it's God first. But certainly those conservative principles that the things that shaped the Founding Fathers and are framing the Constitution, a biblical foundation to understand the reason we need the separation of powers and the reason we need checks and balances. I mean, that's that's the kind of stuff that motivates him. And it was yeah, it was so cool when we got connected with him a couple of years ago, and he was telling us some of the background that, you know, dad he had heard you speak however many years ago, and that that was one of many things that had really encouraged and inspired him to get involved. And now he's in a place where God is using him. He's part of the Freedom Caucus. And he's one of the champions fighting for what we would consider some of those obvious biblical, constitutional things. But now he's he's one of those hero champions up there in DC that we're certainly cheering for. 

David Barton [00:02:17] Yeah, Eric is a guy who is really he is a nice guy, but he's super aggressive and very, very grounded. Tim, as you mentioned, he's and Freedom Caucus is actually one of the leading voices, the Freedom Caucus. And I've got to say... and we've been talking. We've had several good News Fridays about how much Trump is getting done. Trump's getting a lot of stuff done, but he's getting a lot of stuff done because he got a Congress helping him and Eric and these guys and Freedom Caucus have been out front for at least two years saying, here's what we need to do. Here's what we got to do. And Trump has taken much of that. And to their credit, having only a one vote majority in the House of Representatives, these guys have hung together. And when you get the Freedom Caucus guys hanging together with the New York Republicans, you've really done something. And so Eric and these guys have laid out a great path working with President Trump, getting so much done. It really is a positive time. And to have somebody we talk to people like Josh Berkman, who's another guy that's in the Freedom Caucus. It's a strong leader there, but they're very committed, very focused on what makes the nation sound. They've got the moral and religious aspects, and now they're bringing the political stuff to bear. And getting spending under control is one of the big things they have to do. We are we have saddled several generations to come with way too much money in debt. And so Eric and Josh Brecheen, these guys are doing a great job. It's going to be fun to catch up with Eric and see where they are right now. A great leader in the Freedom Caucus and in Congress itself, Eric Burleson. 

Rick Green [00:03:46] Quick break, folks. We'll be right back with Congressman Eric Burleson of Missouri. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:04:56] Welcome back to the Wallbuilders show. Thanks for staying with us. Congressman Eric Burleson with us. Congressman, thanks for taking the time, man. I know you guys are going 100 miles an hour right now, maybe faster than we've ever done D.C. since I've been around anyway. So we really appreciate you coming on and giving us an update. 

Josh Brecheen [00:05:10] It's great to be on Rick. I'm a big fan. 

Rick Green [00:05:12] So how I mean, you got to be excited. A lot of the things that guys like you and I have talked about for years hoping would happen. Matt, it's yeah, it's happening all around us. I mean, this is a good time to be there. 

Josh Brecheen [00:05:24] It is. It's exciting. We've been working our tails off like normally week when Congress I get the opportunity to go home on the weekends. I think I've been home for three days in the last two months. So it's we're just every weekend we're in strategy sessions either with the leadership or or I'm on Freedom Caucus. So we have a lot of strategy sessions as well with a lot is going into the these budget reconciliation, either, you know, two bills or one bill. And and what, what that's what it's going to be comprised in that because we have one shot at this and we recognize that our country is at a inflection point if we do not turn turn things around right here this year. Then, I mean, I hate to say, but I think that we may be seeing the end of the United States of America. There's been reports that we're we may enter a debt spiral in the next 8 to 15 years. We know Social Security goes bankrupt in eight years. We know that Medicare goes bankrupt in in in ten years. So look, we've got a lot of challenges ahead. And there's this is the last chance we have to fix it. 

Rick Green [00:06:33] Yeah. And and you know, it's it's it's almost like suddenly enough people not not that everybody got the message, but that enough people got the message that we're finally seeing serious discussions, not just about let's make this more efficient, but should we be doing this at all, like literally wiping out entire departments or, you know, agencies or programs? I mean, that's that's the kind of thing that, you know, we would talk we might talk about it, but you didn't have the people that ultimately that had the ability to push it all the way across the finish line talking about it now we do. We have hopefully a, you know, presidential administration that's going to see these things through. It looks like that's the focus. I know you guys are, you know, such a slim majority on the House side I guess hit that first. Is it possible to do some of these big things with such a slim majority? And how are you guys kind of walking that line? 

Josh Brecheen [00:07:20] Yeah. We need the public's help on this. And we need Trump to to back it because we need bold action that Congress is is the same people that have put us in this situation. We're at $36 trillion in debt because Congress has a spending problem. We're addicted to opium, other people's money. Yeah. And and whenever I I'm inspired by what Trump is doing and Elon Musk is doing. But look the for example, USAID there was an amendment last year, Eli Crane dropped that amendment. And we only got 80 votes to support reducing the the funding to USAID. It it took in the action of somebody like bold like Elon and Donald Trump to actually do the right thing. And so I say that say we need your help. We need your listeners help. Call your members Republicans and Democrats. I don't care. They all need to be on board and understand that we have one shot at this and they have to cut spending. Look, when we're spending $2 trillion a year more than we're bringing in, obviously we're adding to the debt and our interest payments are going up. But but the worst part is that overspending is taxing the American people in the form of inflation. So when you go and buy a value meal, a quote unquote value, that's not a value anymore. When you're paying $12 for, you know, things that used to just cost less than half that before, when you're spending that kind of money and you're mad, get mad at Congress and call your congressmen and tell them, stop spending and wasting money. 

Rick Green [00:08:52] I feel like I'm hearing you in one ear, and I'm feeling Milton Friedman from the grave in my other ear. Going inflation is always government spending, right now. It's like we're. And all of a sudden we're educating people like that. I remember when Elon Musk started sharing Milton Friedman videos a couple of months ago, and I when I saw that, I went, oh, wow, we actually have a chance to educate the American people and get this thing done. And, and I love, you know, of course, the tweets and I love the, the sunlight and all of these things being uncovered to walk us through. How do we go from that uncovering of some of these crazy things that you and Eli and others were talking about at USA? Now Elon's put this mag, you know, a magnifying glass on what's the word? I'm looking for a megaphone on it. How do we go from them talking about it, saying, here's what this is, we want to stop this to you guys being able to make sure that it gets done. You know, because obviously got the courts now trying to stop the, the, the administration. Just give us a civics 101 here of how you see us getting from point A to point B. 

Josh Brecheen [00:09:51] Yeah. So this requires a little bit of history. So when Richard Nixon in the middle of his, you know, Watergate scandal, The Congress was, you know, was going to town and they passed this Budget Control Act. And it or the thing is called the Impoundment Control Act basically limits the president's ability to to refrain from spending. So, in other words, it forces the executive branch to spend every dollar that's appropriated, which is crazy. Yeah, it's it's absolutely insane. 

Rick Green [00:10:22] No discretion at that point. Yeah. 

Josh Brecheen [00:10:24] No discretion if you if you find a way to make savings, it doesn't matter. You still have to spend the money on something. So that's so which is ridiculous. And honestly, I think it's unconstitutional. But it's what. 

Rick Green [00:10:36] I was going to say, Eric, that is, as you said, an act of Congress, not a constitutional amendment. Go ahead, go ahead. 

Josh Brecheen [00:10:42] Yeah. And so I think it's never been tested. And I think Trump is going to try to test that. I know that I Vietnamese with Roosevelt. And that's one of the things that they want to do. But that will take a long time. Right. So they've done what has happened is he's basically impounding. He's using impoundment to refrain from spending on USAID. And they'll go through other agencies as well. And they've been sued, and it's going to take a while to go all the way through the courts. In the meantime, Congress can act and should act. And we shouldn't be shy about it. We need to back up President Trump's, you know, discoveries. And we need to be passing bills left and right that that put, you know, put it into the law and eliminate these appropriations when we discover them then and not wait for court for Trump to have to go through the court system. 

Rick Green [00:11:30] Yeah, yeah, I was just I didn't even think about it till you said it just just a while ago. I guess even these, these judges stopping some of this might turn out to be good because it gets the clock, you know, ticking, right. Or getting that process of, of getting this question that you just raised is that Impoundment Act constitutional, getting that up to the Supreme Court, hopefully getting a decision on it, like you said, that that could be we could be looking at a year, a year and a half or whatever, dependent, depending on what ultimately ends or ends up happening there. When you talk to your colleagues, you know. And by the way, you mentioned Russ, I, I think I was excited, as excited about his appointment and nomination and going back in there. And as anybody that's been nominated, that's a critical piece to making this thing really work. When you talk to colleagues and how is the appetite there? I know out here on the street, the appetite is huge for big changes like I've never seen in my lifetime. I've never felt this on the ground, you know, with with my coaches out there across the country and, and just all of our audiences. How's the appetite in Congress for for the big changes? 

Josh Brecheen [00:12:30] I think that the members that have been here for a short amount of time, like myself, I've only been here for two years. And then my for the most part, my class in the freshman class that are coming in now have a tremendous appetite. But a lot of the people that have been here for a long, long time, you can tell they're dragging their feet. And they and I think that they're just they're they're they're set in their rut. Right. The way that they've done things before. And for a lot of them, they've been working their whole life to become the chairman or or, you know, responsible for a particular program. And, and now they don't want to see that program cut or, you know, anything happen to that.And that's really the. 

Rick Green [00:13:13]  That's the that's their little fiefdom. Now that they get to have some control and power over. 

Josh Brecheen [00:13:17] That's right. And, you know, the truth is the swamp is real.  It's real and it's bipartisan. They're Republicans and Democrats who just have no desire to cut spending and only want to grow this beast. And it's going to take it's going to take a massive pressure campaign by the American people on these members and and from the president in order to do the right thing. 

Rick Green [00:13:40] I think that that is the key, man, because we kind of saw it even with some of the nominations on the Senate side, some movement and approval for some of these nominees because of the just outpouring, the calls, the pressure, the just watching social media feeds, these, you know, everybody in office, they know that they can read. It's kind of like watching the Super Bowl commercials, right? It's like all these marketers. They know the market has changed. They know the tide has shifted and the attitude has shifted. And so they're changing their message. So we saw family messaging and and even babies and everything else was kind of nice to see in most of those ads. But it's the same for you guys, right? I mean, your colleagues know when that pressure is, is increasing to the point that I have to reconsider my position. And so when these outrageous expenditures get exposed and people start realizing that, like you just said, that's actually causing me to spend more at the grocery store on eggs and everything else. And just the disgust that we're not helping people in North Carolina, but we're paying for drag carrying shows around the world and all this other crazy stuff. Or $59 million on luxury hotels and in New York for illegal aliens. I mean, people are I think they're at a point where they are willing to pick up the phone and call and and so hopefully as each of these items come to you guys, we can do that. What's the best way to know when to press that trigger, like when to call and how on that to be. 

Josh Brecheen [00:14:55] Call them out now and and just demand that your member cut spending. That's I mean, that's really the answer is just say it. Tell them to put on their big boy pants and let's go. This is what we have. This is the last chance we have. Yeah. And look there. There's a lot of people, for example, that they're worried when it comes to men. So whenever I came up here, Rick and I was in. I was in a conference meeting. I'll never I'll never forget how many. How many people, especially the people have been here for a long time. The the swampy people, they go to the microphone and they, they, they say something like this or say, you know, and this is whatever we're discussing cutting the appropriations for the discretionary spending. Right. And they'll say, you know, we could cut all the discretionary spending down to nothing, but we still won't fix the deficit or solve the deficit because because most of the money is in mandatory spending. And and so they'll say we need to address mandatory spending. Well, then when we get to the time in which it's time to address mandatory spending, they're the ones freaking out. They don't want to cut mandatory spending. Right. So and when it comes to mandatory, there's big buckets here. You've got Social Security, you've got Medicare and you've got Medicaid or the three big buckets. Well, Trump has said he doesn't want to touch Social Security. He doesn't want to touch Medicare. So guess what that leaves Medicaid. And there's a lot that we can do to make Medicaid work better for the American people, and to save money without cutting a single individual off of Medicaid. That truly deserves to be on it. But, you know, things like making sure that people still qualify like that, they've got to, you know, ensure that they that they're they have, you know, gotten a job that pushes them out of the income levels or, or what have you. Yeah, you could. 

Rick Green [00:16:45] But even those changes that that shrinks the fiefdom, right. That shrinks the the pot and the and the and the, you know, little kiddy that they get to these, you know, politicians and, and bureaucrats obviously get, get control over. I do want to go back to what you said at the beginning about just the time frame that we have that this is not you know, the battle has not been won. We've won the coin toss. We're now on the field and it's time to fight the battle. And the amount of time on the clock is not even four years for a full presidential term. It is literally, you know, 15 to 20 months. I mean, you guys will be in full campaign mode in another year. So this is the time, like you said, this is the time to call. This is the time to press the gas everywhere. I'm going again on the street. I'm hearing that people are not checking out like they usually do after an election. They want to press the gas. So it is a limited amount of time, which also means I let you guys have to pick your priorities right and figure out what are the biggest battles to fight. It does seem like the budget has become the number one issue, which you know, like you said, if we go bankrupt, everything falls apart. So it probably should be the number one issue. $36 trillion in debt. And I'm hearing Ellen say he thinks it can be cut. What did he say? 2 trillion of the of the deficit part I think is what his goal is. Do you think that is the main focus is is is just reducing the deficit? 

Josh Brecheen [00:18:00] Absolutely. That's. I mean, I think that's what Trump's focus is and Elon Musk is, is carrying out very well. The question is can Congress codify it and can we actually put it into practice. So with what we're discussing, for example, what's being pushed, the the ideas that are being floated or when we met in Miami, the speaker of the House and the Republican conference, he had all the appropriation, all the committee chairmen come up and discuss how much they could cut out of each committee. So you've got, you know, certain amount from the Education Workforce Committee, a certain amount from the Energy and Commerce Committee and yada, yada, yada. It when you tally them all up, it amounted to $315 billion in cuts over. Now this is the worst part over a ten year period. 

Rick Green [00:18:50] So we're talking one year, not one year 300. So 30 billion a year out of a what, $6 trillion budget is nothing. 

Josh Brecheen [00:18:56] But that's around here. It was laughable. It was absolutely laughable. 

Rick Green [00:19:01] These are the Republicans. 

Josh Brecheen [00:19:02] Yes, yes, this is how bad it is, right? This is why I'm saying we need your help. And so then when and so now that's a Freedom Caucus myself. A lot of the fiscal hawks, you know, push back very hard on that. Good. And we've got them close to doing $2 trillion. But still that's 2 trillion over a ten year period. 

Rick Green [00:19:23] Not so trillion of the 6 trillion. Yeah. 

Josh Brecheen [00:19:25] Right. And that's where we're we're we're you know, look we're at a place where I would cut it all. I would cut as much as possible. I get it down to a truly balanced budget. I would pass a constitutional amendment to best to balance the budget. Yeah, but but if we're not going to get there, the position that we're at is we we know that if we push them too far, then they're going to because this is what they've done to us the last couple of years is leadership will break ranks with the conservatives and go strike a deal with the Democrats in order to get in. The Democrats will get a pound of flesh out of it and we'll be in the fiscal hawks will be left in the dust. They will roll. 

Rick Green [00:20:01] Us. So you guys have to make a strategic decision of of what's the most we can get and stay at the table. And you know what? I respect that so much, Eric. That is I tell people that all the time. Yeah. At some point you have to trust the guy in the room. You got to trust who's negotiating this deal that you fought for to get up there, that they did get the most that they could get. And I hate it when people call you. You say you guys cave if you don't get everything that we wanted. So just hearing you say that tells me we're in a new chapter for our our our hardcore fighters. Right. Like I, I can imagine that, you know, the negotiation of the middle of the road guys, our hard core fighters have to also know what's the most we can get to push this thing the right direction. 

Josh Brecheen [00:20:39] Yeah, a lot of a lot of people throw bombs or shade at Freedom Caucus. But the truth is, in order to be a member of the Freedom Caucus, you have to be you. You have to be willing to say no to leadership. Okay? Which this is a is a rare commodity in this town, right? Right. Everybody's a yes man and wants to climb the ladder. But we're here. Freedom caucus members are here to save the country. That's our goal. And so you have to be willing to say stand up to leadership, but you also have to be willing to find, you know, a way to get to. Yes. So yeah. And we need to if we're not going to be if we're going to be a no, we need to at least present the more conservative option that we that we would be a yes on. 

Rick Green [00:21:19] Yeah. 

Josh Brecheen [00:21:20] Yeah. On both issues almost everything in which you other than things like, like the pro-life issue or things like that. 

Rick Green [00:21:26] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, Congressman, I kept you longer than than I said it would. You probably get staff screaming at you in a million meetings to go to. But man, let's get you back in and we will. And we're going to we're going to send out the rallying cry, tell everybody to call in. The easiest thing I guess really to say right now is, is cut spending, cut spending, follow the DOJ's suggestions and, and get this thing done and just keep that pressure that generally speaking, that's the focus in the direction that we want to go. Man, I appreciate you. Thank you for sacrificing time from your family. I know guys like us. Some people think you go to DC because you want all the pomp and circumstance. I know you'd rather not be there. You'd rather be at home. And so thank you for being willing to be there in service. 

Josh Brecheen [00:22:02] Thank you for what you do. I'm big fan. 

Rick Green [00:22:04] Appreciate you man. Be right back, folks. Stay with us. We'll be right back with David and Tim bar. 

Rick Green [00:23:16] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to the congressman for joining us as well. David and Tim, it's always good to have these guys. And it's also important to know that we've got guys that are strong on principle. So a lot of these issues come up. And whether it's dealing with the debt like he was focused on in this in this particular interview or some of these other issues, having that principle based approach is critical because they deal with so many issues. And now we've got these big changes coming, and people are asking a lot of a lot of questions about what's the proper role of government. So it's just great to have some of these leaders that can drive the debate. 

David Barton [00:23:45] You know, Eric is one of those guys who can drive the debate. And as a sound is he is so biblically sound is he is you know, he had the emphasis here on cut spending, cut spending, cut spending, cut spending, cut spending, cut spending. And it's not because that's not a biblical issue. That is a biblical issue. I mean, all the things the Bible says about debt and about about budget and everything else, the scriptures are really clear. That's why people like Dave Ramsey and other Christians, Bearcat and others, have been able to teach Bible classes out of the Bible on economics at home. How do your economics. Well, we need that in Congress. And so Eric has put this out about cut spending. Call your congressman, tell them to cut spending. They need that echoing voice. Those 219 votes need to stay together. And I will tell you, as much as things change in D.C., I checked online. And there's one thing that has not changed in D.C., and I don't know, 35, 40 years. And that is a phone number to the Capitol switchboard. I've got that memorized from back in 1988. 202224312 1 or 202 2253121. Call your congressman and tell them cut spending. Whatever you do, cut spending. Because we can't pass on this huge debt we've got that has to be changed. You can get online, contact your congressman, but do it. Everybody needs to do this. 

Tim Barton [00:25:03] And even as Eric alluded to that this should not be a Partizan issue. This should be something that any grown adult should look at what's going on and go, this is crazy, and we shouldn't be trying to cut the budget over the next ten years. Like, well, you know, we're a big deal. No, like, let's do this right now for the future of our nation and for our kids and our grandkids. Again, that this this is not a Partizan issue. This is a grown up issue. You need some adults in the room who recognize what we are doing is not sustainable. We have to change this. And as I mean, you know, Rick, you alluded to in the interview, sunlight is the best disinfectant. But sometimes there's a different adage that they don't see the light until they feel the fire, until they get those phone calls right. They don't recognize which way the wind's blowing. And sometimes they need that encouragement. They need those phone calls. They need to feel the heat so they make the right decision. And as well as calling to the Capitol, it's also worth saying, hey, you can call the local office, talk to their staffers. Get on social media. Tag them in social media posts. Just communicate with them in whatever way you can to let them know. And make sure that you know your position and put some pressure on them to make the right decision. 

David Barton [00:26:10] And you may not remember the number. Just go and line for Capitol Hill switchboard. Call it. Ask to be connected to the senator or congressman from your state. Get that message. Cut spending. 

Rick Green [00:26:21] I'm just trying to do the math here. Would you say 88. So almost 40 years and you've got that number memorized for that long. I need a song like, you know, eight, six, seven, five, three. And that's the only way I've got to remember a number that long. That's impressive. All right, folks, get the job done. Let's get this debt cut. We're so thankful to have leaders that are pushing for this. Let's do our part back home. Thanks so much for listening to the Wallbuilders show.