Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and Culture, The WallBuilders Show. We're taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Rebuilding the Walls. If you're wondering about that name, WallBuilders comes from the scripture. Arise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be a reproach, just like in the days of Nehemiah. And we are. We're lay in the bricks, folks, and you are part of that helping to make it happen. It's not just what's happening in Washington, DC is what's happening at the local level and at the state level. Later in the program, we'll have Senator Bullard with us from the state of Oklahoma talking about how they're rebuilding there. I'm Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And guys, we do the pro-family legislators conference for that very purpose to to basically exchange ideas and be able to, you know, for these state reps and state senators to to talk about how they're rebuilding at the local level and then to help other legislators do the same thing. And Oklahoma's just done a fantastic job on so many of these issues. We've had tons of their legislators come into the conference really since the beginning. They've always been, I don't know, first, second or third largest delegations at the at the conference. And so we love seeing the fruit come out of there. And we've had many of our legislators on over the years. But we'll be talking about some of the things that they're doing in education, which is, of course, a key battleground to actually restore the culture and rebuild the walls. Yeah, education is everything the Bible says as a man thinks in his heart. So is it the way you think as a result of your education, whatever that may be, so whether you're educated as a progressive or as a conservative or as a Christian or as anything else, it affects the way you think, which affects the way you behave. And so that that process of education is one of the key areas Jesus tells us. And Luke 6:4 says every student when he's fully trained will be like his teacher. And I'll just point out, teachers have a lot more hours per week of training your kids than you do. So education is one of the big things happening right now. This is where so much of the culture shift has occurred. Even parents wondering, how do my kids start believing this? You know, 75, 80% of kids who go to college come back, not with any faith or religious faith, they lose it. And it's all about education. 

Tim Barton [00:02:07] Well, and that the only thing I would say maybe slightly different is my teacher. I think, spent as much time with me as my mom did. And so, you know, I think to some people, some people, parents do spend as much time with them as their teachers do. So just, you know, one little caveat there. 

Rick Green [00:02:26] There are two sides of the same coin. Your teacher is your parent. Yes, that's right. You get the same amount. 

Tim Barton [00:02:31] Yeah. But want you liked one more than the other. Yeah. Just that's just the way it went. But Dad. Yeah. To your point, as we are navigating, even hearing people talk about some of what President Trump has done with executive orders and Department of Education and even having states examine this, where we are even going throughout this year, we're going to be in several different states testifying in committee about the the history and tradition of the Ten Commandments being utilized in public school education. And it's so interesting to me to see the the public school lobbyists, public school teachers and even some quote unquote, Republican state legislators that argue against children seeing or reading the Ten Commandments, that the Ten Commandments shouldn't be posted, etc., etc., etc.. And this is, I think, where most parents don't don't really understand how much hostility there is against basic morals, basic values against America. And I think more people are beginning to recognize it. I think the more that even as those exposing some of the crazy things happening in government, I think it makes it more believable for parents as they're finding out more what's going on. But certainly there is a lot happening that it we are at a place where if we don't have the backbone and courage to stand up and began speaking out, if we don't start working to disciple those around us, even as we're seeing the exposure of some of this nonsense, if we won't get involved to help change it, we will not have the resolution we want and we won't solve the problems we want. But this is where. Dad, back to your point, we have to as especially as families, as parents, wake up and see what's going on and God's given us this amazing window, and especially with these executive orders and with what DOJ's doing, there's so much awareness coming to people. Now is the time to get involved and be part of the solution. Maybe, maybe now's a better opportunity than we've ever had before. This is a great moment to stand up and do something. 

Rick Green [00:04:35] And Oklahoma has been a real leader in this. Ron Walters, the superintendent of public education in Oklahoma, has really staked out that state to take it back to fundamentals, take it back to things that work, like take it back to things that worked for centuries literally, and tell progressive movement different direction. So he's had a lot of courage. Another is Senator David Bullard. David Bullard in the Senate is great guy. He just recently barely lost the race from majority leader, lost by one vote. So he is a spokesman for at least half of the Senate in Oklahoma and a lot of. These Republican states are having trouble with people who get elected because they know they can only get elected if they are Republican. They don't necessarily believe conservative things. They just know they have to be elected. I was in a state last week testifying in the legislature where the Education Committee had 15 members. 14 of them were Republicans, only one Democrat on the whole education committee in that state. But it's not necessarily considered a conservative state or a conservative education committee. They're just all Republicans. And that's kind of what's happening in Oklahoma. So David Bullard, really good guy, really courageous guy. He has been, as Rick mentioned, one of those guys who comes to legislators conference year by year and just a really good guy. And we want to catch up with what's happening in Oklahoma on education because they are really set at a benchmark for the nation right now. Senator David Bullard, our guest. Stay with us. We'll be right back on The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:07:00] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show Thanks for staying with us. Senator David Bullock with us from Oklahoma. Senator, good to have you, man. Thanks for coming. 

Senator David Bullard [00:07:06] On. Yeah, thanks for having me on. 

Rick Green [00:07:08] Well, you guys are already in the thick of it. Legislative sessions all over the country kicked off just a few weeks ago. And of course, Oklahoma has really led the way in a lot of great areas. Most people don't realize these red states like Oklahoma. Some people think Texas is red. I think we're purple. We need to get red. You know that you guys have struggles, too. And so you've got some really good bills coming up this session. But it's still a fight even within a Republican controlled legislature, to get a lot of these ground gaining, you know, getting ground back and restoring the culture, get those kind of things done right. 

Senator David Bullard [00:07:41] Yeah, it is. You know, and that's the shame of it. We have a super majority in the in of Republicans, both House and Senate and a Republican governor. You would you would think that giving things like tax cuts and things like that would not be all that difficult. But we've had to fight pretty hard on conservative bills to get them done. You know, last year, we kept track of them there. They killed without even giving them a hearing to kill over 90% of all conservative bills within the Oklahoma legislature, just in the Senate. And so we've had that fight as we go. You know, I like to tell people I was when I was in school, I was the king of turning a D into an A or a D into a B so my mom couldn't see my report card. A lot of people, I think, have learned how to turn a D into an R, and there's still the old tax and spend Democrats. They just run under that that false pretense of being a Republican. 

Rick Green [00:08:26] That is so good at it. I've never heard anybody put it that way, that that is exactly what is taking place. I will not admit here on the air that I did the exact same thing many times.  But that's exactly what it is, because they, you know, they campaign as if they're one of us and they and they know that the winds have changed. Right. They know the tide has turned towards conservatism and people want to get government out of their business and they want to dial this back. They certainly want to get rid of the c, r, t and the nonsense and the education system. And so big strides in the education area, absolutely essential. And yet they'll talk the game. And then you get to the brass tacks right there behind you know, a lot of it's behind the scenes where they'll kill these bills because they're really not with us. And I don't know if that's because teacher unions have have have given them money. I don't know if it's because their heart is just not with us. But for whatever reason, we're facing the same thing in Texas. And I'm hearing about it in Florida. I mean, all these states, it's a first rate thing. And I'm not saying that to get people to give up. I mean, in fact, that we need to educate them on that so that they can look closer at that that are and make sure it hasn't been a D that's been changed into an R, And what are these folks really doing behind the scenes? Well, you're in the thick of it. What would you say are some of the most critical things we can do while we have momentum with the people to turn the culture around? Some of these education bills are scary and maybe what would you put at the top of the list? 

Senator David Bullard [00:09:49] You know, I think I think people are tired of this school agenda of of trying to really, really push our kids to someplace they can't be, especially within higher ed. I've run a bill for years called a Student Bill of Rights that free students out from from that indoctrination. We see, you know, more than 80% of our kids are rejecting their faith after their first year in college. Those are real numbers. Yeah. And that's by design and we just haven't caught up to it. D I think people and they're. 

Rick Green [00:10:18] Coming out hating America, right? I mean, it's not just a rejecting their faith. They're rejecting patriotism. They're rejecting love of country, actually starting to think America is the enemy. 

Senator David Bullard [00:10:26] Well, and so many of them think now somehow socialism is the answer and we'll get it right the next time you just just wait. You know, we won't kill nearly as many hundreds of millions of people to put socialism in as other countries have done. You know, it's just a it's a very mistaken identity. And and I think that you're seeing a public or grassroots. Well, we've seen it in Oklahoma. I think you've seen it in Texas, too, that if you have those people who are showing you who they are. I had a friend of mine who tells me all the time, if you listen to people, they'll eventually tell you who they really are. And I read about a speech one time that Frederick Douglass listen to Andrew Johnson gear right after Abraham Lincoln had died. And he actually stopped and said, I think we just heard the true index of his heart. And if you'll listen to people, they'll tell you the true index of their heart long enough. I've good people as I've gone gone long. Stop asking people if you're pro-life, ask them instead. What are you going to do to save the life of the unborn? Stop asking if they're Second Amendment and if they tell you, Well, you know, I. I own a gun, so therefore, I'm Second Amendment. You need to start looking for somebody else immediately. That's good. If you'll start asking in-depth questions, not on the surface questions. You'll start seeing the true index of the heart because you'll see them squirm. You'll see that they won't want to give you an answer or they don't know. I interviewed a whole bunch of candidates the other day for a Senate position here in Oklahoma. None of them had read the Constitution and none of them had ever even read the Republican platform. Wow. And so it's very telling. If you'll start really digging in and asking them the questions. And then number two, look at who's donating to them. Robin Williams once said that, ladies. Platers politicians ought to have to put on a uniform with patches that are all their donors. And I agree with that. I mean that those are the ones that are going to own you. And if your money comes from the people, the people are going to be the ones that you listen to. And if it's the lobbyists, you're going to listen the lobbyists. So those are. And so those are probably three steps. I would look at. 

Rick Green [00:12:18] All of them. Good man. I love that index of the heart. I had not heard that quote from Frederick Douglass. He's one of our heroes around here. WallBuilders For sure. And yeah, you know, just just asking a question. Boy, you and I could do a whole show just on that. Yeah, we could of asking and, you know, controlling the conversation and taking it in the right direction just by asking the right questions. Critical. Critical to. To do for sure. I guess part of what we've seen a little bit outside of Oklahoma about Oklahoma has been some of the education reforms that your superintendent has done. And and I don't know how much of that is non-legislative. You know, it's just implementation of the education system. Do you think that some of those things will stick? Can you catch us up on what those things were and how it's tied to legislation that you're trying to get passed this session? 

Senator David Bullard [00:13:06] Yeah, there's some good things that he's done and some other things that we've looked at and said, you know, we've got some questions on how to do this. I've always been one that's opposed to executive orders. And, you know, the fourth branch of government where we we rule through rules. So I would much rather the legislature do their job. You know, we did it on CRT. We ran the legislation. We got it done. But for some reason, we can't stop pornography in schools. And he has really gone to bat against pornography in schools. We're going to continue to fight it because the next person in after him, all they have to do is change that rule. And it's a lot easier to change a rule than it is to just change legislation. So there are some fights there that we're working on. You know, since I have been here and I have fought to force our teachers to actually use primary sources to teach our Christian heritage and its impact on our founding documents. And he's been fighting that fight through through his implementation of the Bible in schools. And I think that there's a lot of benefit to looking at that. We need to be specific there. I don't want some pink haired person who doesn't believe in God to start trying to teach the Bible. So I want to make sure we're teaching it specifically. You know, I've run that bill this year, that Senate bill 850, and that one actually gives them I think it's 20 different quotes from the founding fathers on our Christian and constitutional heritage. And it we know that to be taught in every history class. So there are some things we as a legislature need to step up and implement and make sure that we're being specific about what it is that we expect of them to do. You know, the Ten Commandments is a fight. 

Rick Green [00:14:40] I think that was another one I was going to ask you, but you read my mind, brother. That was the next question I had for. Yeah, go ahead. 

Senator David Bullard [00:14:45] Yeah. I mean, the Ten Commandments are essential and we have court rulings. So there'll be. Perry There's tons of them. There's there's a lot of cases that have said the Ten Commandments are part of our heritage. And if I would encourage your listeners, if they haven't already, go read the 2020 to Coach Kennedy case and read how Gorsuch put it. We are not the government is never allowed to be in opposition to two to religion. They're not there to to be hostile is the word that he used. And if they're telling you you can't have the Ten Commandments in your schools in America, that is the principle foundation of our government in our country is based upon that. A matter of fact, there's a court ruling early on in our history that said our laws are based upon the teachings of Christ and and in the Old Testament, those are your Ten Commandments. And we wonder why our kids all of a sudden think that murder is okay and it's okay to kill a baby in the womb when we haven't taught them thou shalt not kill. And so it's important and vital that we get those fundamentals back into our schools. But all of it, the founding documents, every document we have is based on that. I would love them. You know, speaking of WallBuilders, I use your show in my class, a video that David Barton did on the Declaration of Independence. It's it's just vital that we get those things into the hands of our kids. And we don't have to make up history. We don't have to teach them our opinion on these things. We can go in and show them the words of the founders. That's right. And then start a discussion about what does that mean? And I think your kids will find out. We are an exceptional nation and our country is great, not because of human hands. It's it's great because we put it in the hands of God and use the Bible as our reference. 

Rick Green [00:16:35] And when we line up with the laws of nature and nature's God, there's there's blessings there. When we go against them, there's curses. And it's just so obvious. There's a formula that if you put that into the culture, you get you get good results. And the founders made that, made that very clear. And that's all you're talking about, is just teaching that history, teaching those those facts and those things that that do make a difference. I think the I think Louisiana maybe was the. One, the first one that did the Ten Commandments bill, and I know there's a lot of them that are filing them this time. Would love to see that happen. And as you said, the Koch Kennedy case, I mean, it just changed everything and really opened the door for us to be able to do these kind of things. And it's restoring that God consciousness. That's a that's a big part of it right there and there. I don't know. Senator, I when you when you talk to people, you probably hear the same thing. Sometimes they'll say, we just don't want religion here and religion there and all this. And I always say, you know, wouldn't you like to have neighbors like you just said that that have been taught that murder is wrong, that's dealings wrong, that that you ought to honor your father and mother. I mean, those are just some basic good cultural standards. 

Senator David Bullard [00:17:35] Yeah. And it's it's it's incumbent upon us to make sure that kids learn these things now are the parental right first. Right. We want our parents teaching this at home. The school should just be backing it up through. Yeah. Good factual firsthand knowledge we want them using primary sources. I don't want the opinionated history that I was given where they tried to reconstruct history into their own opinion. You know, the things that I was given, that somehow the founders were all secularist and atheist and deist, which is complete and utter nonsense. And so we want the foundation at home and we want to make sure that that's delivered there where the parents cannot become or the schools cannot become the parents. But the schools do need to be teaching relevant and and real history through the eyes of our founders and words of our founders. And that's that's vital. But, you know, it's hard to teach that at schools. We see our school or our school so many times failing us when they try and convince kids there's more than two genders, right? And so they try and compel speech and force them to do that. We're working on that issue this year and have been for quite some time. Say that you cannot force a student or a staff members to be compelled to say that which is unscientific, which means you can't compel them to go along with transgender nonsense that's out there and try to be pushed on our kids. We've got a bill this year that says if the federal government tries to come in and use gender ideology in any way, the state of Oklahoma would replace those funds and we shall not do that. So we've got lots of ways we can push push back on this overreach. And while we have Trump in office, we don't have four years to get this done. We've got a year or two. I ride this wave and get it done. So I do not want to sit back and wait. I want to take in and and do what grassroots is telling us to do, which is which is in the state of Oklahoma. That's what they're telling us to do. These are the things they want. 

Rick Green [00:19:26] Man, you are spot on. I think it's a prestigious moment, man. This is we've got a chance to to to to really gain some ground back. And it has to be done like you're doing at the state level and at the local level. President Trump can give us cover. You know, he can basically provide the air cover and get the federal government, you know, boot off our necks. But we've got to do this work at the at the local level. These are fantastic things that you're doing, Senator. I think the attitude is exactly right. And, you know, praying for for you to have great success this session and us restore this these basic formulas that that made America great in the first place and just appreciate all that you're doing, man. Can I ask our audience to be praying for you and your and your colleagues there in the Oklahoma legislature and hope to see some good things come out, hope to get you back with some good reports by the end of the session. 

Senator David Bullard [00:20:07] Yeah, I think we will. You know, it's not about me. There's a whole team of us working as conservatives to get it done. So yeah, I encourage just work with us, make the phone calls. But we're getting some good things down for Oklahoma. 

Rick Green [00:20:20] Fantastic. Senator David Bullard, our special guest today. Stay with us. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton

Rick Green [00:21:33] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks to Senator Bullard for joining us today and for, of course, all the good work there in the Oklahoma legislature. Hey, guys, good news all the way around. And I could remember as I was in the interview with him, Tim, where it was that you went, I think it was Louisiana, where you went testified on the Ten Commandments bill. We've got a lot of those. I think this session that that you'll probably be going to testify on. 

Tim Barton [00:21:53] Yeah. Louisiana is a state where it passed last year. And I was actually standing behind the governor while he signed it into law. Super cool. But this year, we've already been to multiple states. We are going to many, many more states. And it is something really good. I thought also, guys, it was interesting that that he identified some of their concerns with When you see executive orders doing some of this stuff, it gives a pause and maybe a cause for the pause in some scenario, like, are we supposed to do that? And this is where I think from our perspective, from the outside looking in, because just like we talked about with President Trump and his executive orders, and as long as the executive order is within the executive branch, you have some authority to do that. This is where from the outside looking in, we'd say, hey, if you are the secretary of Education, superintend of Education, you do have some authority inside the state. And depending on how you do it, as long as you are staying in your lane, you can do that. Now, I don't disagree with his assessment. That is really it's better and safer when the state legislature does it. We don't disagree with that. But this is also why Ryan Walters chose to use maybe federal funds and strategically, some of the way he did things to try to get the Bible back in schools and that and saying the Bible back in schools. The idea is not that you have a Bible teacher per se, but that they're going to read a chapter from the Bible to start the school day. And then you're doing it without commentary again. That's it. There's a longstanding history and tradition of that kind of stuff. And so this is not necessarily including pink air commentary and Bible reading as much as it is. We're going to read a chapter of the Bible. But anyway, all that to say is I understand where there is cause for concern in some areas, but we applaud Ryan Walters. We've had a man show many times for what he is doing in Oklahoma for his boldness and courage and leadership, because as an example, we've seen places like in South Dakota where the Ten Commandments bill, it made it through the committee of the House, the Senate passed through Senate and then goes to the House. I think it's voted down in the House because it which, by the way, South Dakota overwhelmingly Republican. But there are Republicans that don't support the idea of having the same commandments in front of school kids in a public school room setting. And this is also where when you have people like Ryan Walters with the courage and backbone to stand up and do something, it's very encouraging. But overall, looking at Oklahoma, they have done so much good stuff and they have some uphill battles as well. Unfortunately, they have. I loved I love this analogy of being able to take grades and, you know, kind of put new lines in them. So your parents think you did better than you did. And, you know, people taking a D and making it at R. That's totally true. We see it in Texas is good where there's a lot of people that that were elected as Republican that don't have conservative and Christian values. That's absolutely true. And I think there's going to be a lot of people paying a lot more attention to who some of these Republicans are, and they might get some challengers the next primary. Yeah. 

Rick Green [00:24:52] You know, Oklahoma is considered a rural conservative Bible belt state and is, as David was talking. You mean to tell me Oklahoma cannot stop genuine pornography from being used in the schools? Oklahoma, you know, All right. Maybe San Francisco, but Oklahoma certainly parents don't know that much about it. But as he pointed out, 90% of all conservative bills in Oklahoma are being killed by Republican legislators. So you've got a lot of people there who have a D with two lines added to it to call them R, And this is where folks do have to get involved. And by the way, I want to just remind people of a Bible verse. This is so anti progressive, the use this verse, but you take Proverbs 813, the Bible says the fear of the Lord is to hate evil. We are to hate pornography because of the effects of what it does. And no, Christians don't hate. We're not haters. No, no, no. Tell Jesus he's not a hater because he hated evil two. He hated bondage. He hated things that oppressed people. And if you ever get to the point where you start hating something, it will motivate your actions. That's a that's a strong emotion. It will cause you to do things if you ever get to where you start hating pornography in schools, you're not going to sit around, say, test, test disc. You're going to sit around, say, Hey, we got to stop this. And if that means having a new Republican legislator, that will do something, I'm going to help make sure that happens. So go back to it's a good verse to memorize Proverbs 813. It's a motivational verse and you really need to focus on the things that need to be removed from education. But Oklahoma is a great example of trying to do things right, and certainly Oklahoma can help more legislators move that direction, but other states can also model what they're doing. 

Rick Green [00:26:24] Yeah, I remember it stuck with me so much when Kirk Cameron was doing the teaching and biblical citizenship on the on the monument in that first week. And he said, you learn to love the things God loves and hate the things God hates. And that's so important to get that back into our mindset in our and our culture. Such great news today, folks. A lot to do at the local on the state level. Hope you're getting plugged in somewhere. Thanks so much for listening to The WallBuilders Show.