Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for joining us today. This is the place where we talk about the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution coach with David Barton and Tim Barton, Tim's national speaker and pastor and president WallBuilders. David is, of course, America's premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. You can learn more about all three of us at our website. Wallbuilders.com. Wallbuilders.com. Lots of great resources for you there and then if you've missed any of the radio programs and there were some good ones the last few weeks you got to go get them you can go to WallBuilders Dot show. WallBuilders Dot show specifically last Friday if you missed that one, we had Rebecca Lavrenz the praying grandma with us pardon now by President Trump and then she was with us last Saturday for a constitution conference in Florida and we had just a great time. Patriots and coaches from all over the state of Florida came in and got some good training on how to host constitution classes, how to build up teams in their community to take back ground. I mean, we've got just a wonderful window of opportunity right now, not just for President Trump and all of these reformers in Washington, DC, getting our jurisdictions back in line and shrinking the federal government and all the good things that we expect from them, all the good things that have already happened in just the first couple of weeks, but also at the local level and at the state level. We've got a lot of work to do and we need coaches, we need constitution coaches that can educate people on how to do that. So we've got 30,000 of them across the country. We need 100,000. We put about a million a little over a million people through our biblical citizenship classes, constitution classes. We need that to be 5 million. So if you want to be a part of that, check it out at Patriotacademy.com Patriotacademy.com. You can sign up as a coach. You can attend one of our other Constitution conferences across the country. In fact, if you're a listener in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, we're going to be doing 1st February 15th at Mercy Culture Church. So come here, Tim Barton and myself and Nate Schatz, line of representative in Austin right now, state representative there, and just a great warrior. His his doing a phenomenal job getting churches involved and getting them engaged in the culture. So we're going be talking about how to do more of that. That's February 15th in Fort Worth, Texas, at Mercy Culture that you can sign up for at constitutioncoach.com constitutioncoach.com. All right so Friday again you can get that program at WallBuilders.show that was with Rebecca Lavrenz praying grandma and now pardoned and just an incredible story just a you know it shows I think Rebecca story shows just how far the left was willing to go, how corrupt these prosecutors were. I've talked about a lot on the program, But, you know, I went out there to testify for her and I watched firsthand these. I just have to say it. Evil prosecutors manipulate the system, destroy justice. I mean, this was not the Department of Justice. This was the Department of Injustice. And the things that they did, the lies that they told, the manipulation of the legal process, the manipulation of the jury, the inability for defendants to be able to do all of the things you're supposed to do under our Constitution, confront witnesses against them, to call witnesses in their favor, to present evidence they were prevented from doing so many of those things. The same thing happened to Donald Trump in his trials. They did the exact same thing, that warfare that removed any sense of justice. It became not blind justice, not equal justice, not not a any kind of a system where you're trying to get to the truth. But it became instead social justice, which means we want the outcome. And it's all based on race and religion and and political affiliation. And of course, we saw it with Trump, but we also saw it with attorneys like John Eastman, who simply gave Donald Trump advice on how the 12th Amendment were, how the counting of electors worked, what the options would be, and they still went after him with this criminal law, fair and civil law fair. And so Rebecca was a victim of that as well. And I witnessed it firsthand and in fact, couldn't even testify for more than a couple of minutes. They were objecting as soon as the first words came out of my mouth because I talked about the Constitution and the First Amendment and all of those things. And and as I said, I watched these prosecutors and you could just tell me that they were, I really believe, actually overcome with evil. I think these people were so absolutely focused on destroying anyone that supported Donald Trump that it just it just ate them up. I mean, it just it caused their judgment to be lost. It caused any sense of fairness to be lost, any sense of honor in any any any respect for the law and respect for the process and the courtrooms. And all of that was gone in the judges, in the prosecutors, in these FBI counterterrorist people that were there. And it was like an army. I mean, you got this little 72 year old great grandmother up against, you know, 4 or 5 Department of Justice attorneys, FBI, counterterrorism guys. I mean, it was insane and seen that firsthand. It I came home from that trip grieving over the loss of justice in in our country. And so if you didn't hear that program Friday, make sure you go back, wobble or dot show and listen to Rebecca today. We're going to have another one of the J6 defendants that has been pardoned. This one far worse than what happened to Rebecca, the praying grandma. This one, a police officer that actually was charged with assaulting police officers, charged with all of these ridiculous things that they trumped up clown intended to do to get a lot of these j Sixers that did nothing wrong. So this guy, Colton Maccabee, he's a police officer himself. He's there. Everything goes crazy. He gives first aid, tries to tries to save one of the victims that was actually killed by a Capitol Police officer, beat over the head with a stick and and just horrible things. And so he tried to give CPR. He was trying to save her. Then he was trying to protect a police officer that got pushed up to the ground. And they you know, some other people were trying to drag him down the steps. And Colton steps in and and keeps that from happening. And then he helps the guy get up. The guy, actually. Thanks. Colton actually thanks him. And, you know, another officer even thanked him and and all of that was on video. But evidence that we couldn't get to the jury and that that we couldn't get the whole story to. And they just they lied about Colton and and, you know, did everything they could to destroy his life. And then you'll hear it firsthand. We're going have Colton and his wife Sarah on. You'll hear the story. I mean, just how horrific they were treated. And so he was in fact, this interview I did this in my program, the tavern last week, right after he was pardoned, actually a week before last. And so this is this was fresh. He's only out of out of out of prison for a day. And he and Sarah both came on and we're so thankful for them. Sarah is actually one of our Constitution coaches, as is Rebecca. I forgot to mention that that's how we got her involved, was going through our constitutional live class. But Sarah is one of our Constitution coaches and just a fantastic leader, and she's been so strong through all of this. And she came to our our leadership Congress last summer and told her story. She she did a great job debating on the floor at our new House chamber at the Patriot Academy campus. And and then she spoke to everybody and and told the story of Colton and told the story of how she's been, you know, trying to help other j six defendants across the country. So they're both Colton a Sarah just a fantastic couple amazing story and and I wanted to share it with you our WallBuilders audience even though the folks who watch the tavern have have already seen it. But you're going to enjoy this. We're going to do this today and tomorrow. The interviews are going to take both days in order to get the whole thing in. But I think you're going to be impressed. And I'm going to ask you to be praying for Colton or Sarah and what's next for them and and be praying for all of these J. Six defendants and look for ways to help us help them. All right. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Colton and Sarah Maccabee in the Tavern.

Rick Green [00:08:48] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us for the jump right into my tavern interview with Colton and Sarah Maccabee. Thanks for staying with us. Colton and Sarah Maccabee are with us. What a treat, man. Colton, Welcome home, man. Just an honor to have you here in the tavern and to see you out of the Gulag. man, welcome. 

Colton Maccabee [00:09:08] Thanks you. Glad to be here. 

Rick Green [00:09:10] Well, you. I know you are, but you ought to be so proud of your wife. She's been such a warrior. I know this has had to be near to impossible for you. All the things you've been through. I don't know why God took you through this. I kind of do. I guess I have a guess of how he's going to use both of you in the future to help save our country. But. But, man, I'm just thankful that you're here. And I really appreciate you all giving us some time. And you hadn't been out 48 hours and you all are willing to take the time to come on. So really, really appreciate it. First question is really light. What was your first meal out? Where did you go? What did I do? 

Colton Maccabee [00:09:45] Well, my first official meal was. Goodness gracious. Well, what did we go to stake in? Yeah. Let's take a trip at the hotel, actually. 

Rick Green [00:09:57] That's great. Stay. Good trip. I love it. I love it. Well, let's start. You know, we, of course, have told your story a lot, not only here on the tavern, but on every program. I get a chance to talk about this. But Sarah came on while you were in and told a lot of the story. So many lies about about you. I was really glad The Blaze article came out this week to help set some of that record straight. But I guess just just backing up, you know, tell a little bit of of of what it was like while you were in because we've kind of told the story of what happened that day and how much they twisted this stuff. The fact that you're law enforcement officer yourself, that you you know, we're helping law enforcement officers. We had a good visit on Flash Point. You read you talk about the fact that you just could not help that day. 

Colton Maccabee [00:10:40] Right? Yeah. Or being in on that side. It's I mean, call it ironic if you want to. I mean, I wore a badge for seven years. Now I'm wearing a prisoner uniform. And like, I would sit there sometimes I would just sit there and think, this isn't real life. I this is a dream. I can, you know, I'll wake up sometime today or something. By now I got real and. I mean, it was rough in the beginning. You know, people didn't like us, called the stairs. They are you know, we went through all the the stuff through D.C. and the the hatred there from my for well, let's see, my my judge, my jury, the prosecution, D.C. officials, the inmates. I mean, it was. It was rough at that very start. 

Rick Green [00:11:34] How? How much? How often for you? You know, I keep thinking about the fact your own government is doing this to you. Right. This is you've sworn an oath to defend and you know all of those things. And I know you had to have nights like that where you're thinking, man, this is this is my government that's doing this to me. I mean, how do you how did you deal with that? And you said something, a flash point that I thought was really important. You you had your bouts with God, right? Angry with God. That's okay. You know, Jacob did do and and probably all of us at some point in history. But but for you especially, you know, what was what kind of got you through that part to not give up hope on your own nation. 

Colton Maccabee [00:12:11] This was really, really hard not to be negative about it. But, you know, I couldn't fathom four more years of Biden. I mean, I figured America would wake up at least once or something, you know? But I couldn't let them beat me. You know, I couldn't let them win. And yeah, I mean, the war's just begun now. I'm out. That's right. We are. We are going to make some changes. I'm glad Trump's in. I'm glad. You know, he's he's getting his cabinet members in. But I got some work to do as well. 

Rick Green [00:12:46] I got to interrupt, folks just for a second. You've been listening to Colton and Sarah Maccabee. They joined me in the tavern right after he was released from prison. And we wanted to share with you our WallBuilders audience. We'll be right back on The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:14:05] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show, jumping right back in with Colton and Sarah Maccabee in the interview we had a chance to do in the tavern. 

Colton Maccabee [00:14:11] When you have a when you have a corrupt government, they go after their political enemies. And I never thought in my life I'd be a political prisoner in America. 

Rick Green [00:14:19] Yeah. Yeah, I think that was probably well, I even said on the opening for the for the program, I talked about the fact that had it not been for how far they went and how much they demonize their political opponents. You know, Joe Biden standing in front of the Independence Hall and with the red lights and the military guys and calling all of us, you know, half the country, his enemy and, you know, threats to democracy, which we are, because, you know, we're a republic. So we're certainly a threat to democracy. The founders called it mob ocracy. But the fact that he. Brought it to that point and that are that our government, with our dollars, with our money, with our department of Injustice, was used to go after guys like you in the in the fashion that they did. I guess one thing and sir and I talked about this on the program before. It's one thing to have actual justice. Okay. Break down every video, every second and go after the ones that actually, you know, did things that were wrong and exonerate the ones that did. And that's not what they did, man. It was a pox on all houses. They had to lie about you in order to convict you. They had to rig the system in Washington, D.C. It was just a complete travesty of justice. And so it would be easy to lose faith in your country at that point and say, you know, forget it, man. I'm moving to Costa Rica and and and we're going to live on the beach for the next 50 years. I wouldn't I wouldn't blame both of you for doing that. But yet I hear in your voice a resolve like Donald Trump's that we're going to right the ship. We're going to we're going to we're going to right the wrongs. We're going to bring back actual blind justice and equal justice. That's not going to be easy, man. That's going to take us a while. That doesn't happen overnight with an executive order. 

Colton Maccabee [00:15:52] Yeah, you're right. And you know, if the if it was easy, everybody would be doing it. But I feel like God has called me for this moment. I mean, he's trained me. He's. He's led me down this path for a reason. Growing up, you know, with my career and now with prison, I've seen both sides. I've seen how it is two tiered and how, you know, we can sit there and change it from the inside or we can change it from the hours of either way is getting changed, you know, and I feel like January, January 6th was our Boston Tea Party. 

Rick Green [00:16:24] Amen. Yeah, they tried to make it the Rostock fire, the 1933 Rostock firing Germany. That was the whole point of everything they did was try to demonize you guys and demonize all patriots. They tried to make it like, you know. Well, that's why they had to call it insurrection and all the things that they did because they wanted to use it to completely silence and destroy the opposition. And they came close. I mean, they came very close. I think the fact that we survived it, the fact that we now have the chance to to go on offense and take ground back is a testament to the Constitution itself and that it wasn't completely wiped out while so much of it was being ignored. I mean, I know your due process rights were completely trampled. The 1500 J six was completely trampled, but it wasn't completely destroyed. We have the chance to to to to hold on to the tatters. Like you look at them a McNaughton beaten on this side of me and is literally pulling the constitution out of the fire. You look at them are not in pain on this side. I mean it's you you know it's you. J Six years in solitary confinement. They almost did it, man. But they didn't. And we now have the chance to take it back. We we restored patriotism, but now we've got to actually rebuild liberty. And so I knew Sarah had it. I mean, last summer when you were here and the things that you said here at the Patriot Academy campus and the the fire that came out of you, I knew you had it. Now I see in Colton the same thing in the same resolve. So I think you're going to be a power couple for restoring the Constitution is what I see. 

Colton Maccabee [00:17:44] Yeah, it's a you know, they have attacked us. So what do they think? We're gonna sit back and be quiet? Right. I mean, you'd be a fool to think that. 

Rick Green [00:17:57] Well, had they had they had. They had their way. And look, there's probably some that said, you know what, The easiest thing for me to do is to be quiet, Right? To fall into silence. That's what happens with most people. You're not a summer soldier, though. You're not a sunshine patriot. You're a winter soldier. I've been joking about the fact I wasn't there to, you know, cheer on the president because I went to the inauguration 20 years ago and froze my buns off and said, I'm never going back. But but I realize that makes me a sunshine patriot, you know? I would have probably bailed on Washington if the propane ran out of the out of the heaters, which of course, they didn't have. But anyway, I can't imagine what it was like for you in the Gulag. And you had you said today on On Flashpoint, you ended up in Rochester. So I didn't even realize that. So how different was it from prison to prison? It sounded like it was it was a lot better once you got to Rochester. 

Colton Maccabee [00:18:46] Yeah, I think I've been to 11 or 12 different facilities. 

Rick Green [00:18:50] Are you kidding me? 

Colton Maccabee [00:18:51] I wish I wasn't. I was in D.C. twice. So but the comparison between Rochester and D.C. is night and day. I got there, looked like a college campus. I was confused. I thought I was going to college for real. I mean, green grass, trees. You had animals like geese, squirrels just running around on campus. You see people moving around. I'm like, holy cow. Like, is this is this real? 

Rick Green [00:19:17] You know? Were you allowed to go see him? Sarah, At that point? I mean, how often were y'all able to actually see each other during this? 

Sarah Maccabee [00:19:23] Yeah. So? Well, for the first time, it was 597 days from the time that they took him, August 17th of 2021 until it was April 1st of 2023, the first time that we were able to have visitation. 

Rick Green [00:19:36] And wait a minute. You got to say that again. Yeah. 500. How many days? 

Sarah Maccabee [00:19:41] 597 days. 

Rick Green [00:19:43] 597 days before you got to see each other? I can't even. Wait a minute. Let me do that. That's a year. That's almost two years. That's a year and three quarters. Yeah. 

Sarah Maccabee [00:19:55] Yeah. And even then, the first time that I saw him, I had to travel from Tennessee to Washington, D.C. to see him a ten hour trip. And I got to see him behind glass for 30 minutes. 

Rick Green [00:20:09] Well, first of all, the fact that your marriage survived is a miracle. I know there were a lot of guys that got the Dear John letters and a lot of which, hey, it's hard, man. That is. You know, I mentioned this only to my staff so far and our coaches, but I, I experienced a 10th, a 10th of 1% of what I like. Nothing compared to what you went through. But you know, when I was ten, my my dad was in prison for about six months, all a political thing. And so even going to visiting him, I, I remember that as a kid. And then I had a corrupt D.A. come after me when I was in politics, you know, 25 years ago. And we had a little bit of that black cloud following us around. Nothing like what you've been through. But the idea that and so I only say say that to say just experience and a little bit of it, I can I can kind of relate to the pain of the government coming after you and your hopelessness that there's no way I can fight this. And that's why a lot of times the families do give up and say, I just can't. We're never going to win. We're never going to get him out. And they. And they leave. You didn't. Sorry. I mean, you you know, maybe you came close. I don't know. But, you know, however, the Lord got you all through it. I am praying for your marriage and just I hope it blossoms and thrives and that the Lord just blesses y'all with about 47 children. And is that too many? 

Colton Maccabee [00:21:23] Okay, maybe for me. 

Rick Green [00:21:24] For 45, 40, you know, whatever it's going to be, I just man, I'm so thrilled that y'all y'all did hold on to Sarah. You had, you know, even when you were here last summer, I could see this fire in you and you said, you know, I'm angry. And and I remember care of my wife saying to you, you you should be angry. We feel that with you, you had every right to be angry and even called. And when you said today, with your anger with the Lord, it's so it's totally fine. I think that's God expects that whenever these kind of things go on, that struggle. Me That's not what, you know, Jacob means to struggle with the Lord's or Israel. So anyway, I just mean I applaud y'all for, for being able to get through that. I'm talking too much. I want to hear from you also. So you you got to see them in Rochester. I mean, you got to see them in DC. That was after a year and three quarters. How often then did you get to go see him once he got moved? 

Sarah Maccabee [00:22:11] Rochester Once he got moved to Rochester, I went up about once a month to go see him. We were at that point, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong, it's federal prison and there's nothing good about federal prison. 

Rick Green [00:22:24] I've got one more break today. We'll be right back. Stay with us. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:24:33] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show and back in with Colton and Sarah Maccabee in the tavern. 

Sarah Maccabee [00:24:38] He was in D.C. for probably about 25 months total. And from the time that he was incarcerated to the time that he was sentenced and moved. And so that was the worst of the worst. Everything you hear about the D.C. gulag, you know, amplify it by ten. And he's a living testament of what went down there. All the different things just they tried to destroy them mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially. And they didn't for the majority of it. You know, to see these individuals walk out on January 20th and see them reunited with their families, it's definitely going to be a healing journey along the way. But just the mere fact that the Lord protected them and I've always said I believe it's by the grace of God that these individuals are going to be okay, you know, and in their different paths, just like you said, we can't sit back and judge the people that took the plea deals or the divorces or whatever happened in the families, because everybody has had a unique walk when it has come to January 6th. But I think that it just shows because of their unique walk, they can connect with different people in society. And that when Colton's talking about like his next steps and stuff, the thing we have always talked about is to never let these sacrifices go in vain. 

Rick Green [00:25:47] Alright folks. We're out of time for today. We'll get the conclusion of the interview with Colton and Sarah Maccabee tomorrow here on The WallBuilders Show. By the way, if you want to see the whole interview and the whole show, you can go to Warrior Poets Society Network, or you can go to PatriotU.com. The Tavern is a show that I do for Warrior Poets Society Network. That's a setting in a tavern because it's like the revolutionary period. And if you're wondering about taverns, that was where so much happened in the revolution. That's where the Constitution was actually ratified at the first state in Delaware. That's how they got the nickname the first state, because they were the first ones to ratify the Constitution. They did it in a tavern. It was taverns where so many of the Sons of Liberty and the Patriots met and discussed the revolutionary strategies and tactics to secure freedom. And so we're doing the same thing in our show, The Tavern. We're discussing the revolutionary strategies and tactics that it takes to save liberty now and restore liberty in our country. So check that up at Patriot you.com thanks for listening today conclusion with Colton and Sarah Maccabee tomorrow right here on the WallBuilders Show.