Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's WallBuilders and it's Christmas Day. Pray that you're having a wonderful day with your family today. And for those of you that are serving us around the world, protecting our nation and protecting so many others, thank you for missing Christmas with your family and serving our country. We've got a bill, federal program today that that is working. Pick up where we left off yesterday. But Bill was given us so many cool little tidbits from history. I had no idea so many of these different connections and things that though how we got the traditions and even some of the names and all these different things about Christmas. So it's just fun to learn these things. So we're going to jump right back in with Bill Federer. I'm Rick Green. America's Constitution coach David and Tim Barton will be with us when we come back. Later in the program, here's Bill Federer. 

Bill Federer [00:00:52] And in 988 A.D., Vladimir the great converts from Paganism to Greek Orthodox Christianity and adopt Nicholas as the patron saint of Russia. And then Islam comes in and destroys all seven churches that mentioned in the Book of Revelation in Asia Minor Ephesus, Smyrna, a Pergamon Theater or Sardis, Philadelphia, allow you to see it all wiped out. And when they would come in, they would destroy churches and graves. People forget in 846 A.D., 11,000 Muslim Saracen pirates come up the Tiber River and trash Rome and trash the Basilica of St Peter's in St Paul. Right. The churches of St Paul outside the walls. And they trashed the graves of St Peter and St Paul. After this Pope Leo, the fourth, built a 39 foot wall around the Basilica St Peter's. But the threat of these Muslim invaders destroying the grave of Saint Nicholas was real. So in 1087, they moved his grave to Italy, a little town called Bari Bari and the cathedral is still there. Cathedrale di Bari and it's dedicated by Pope Urban the second and you know him because he's the one that called for the first crusade at the Council of Claremont in 1095 ad saying, hey, we got to rescue these Greeks. But now that Nicholas's traditions are in Italy, Saint Francis of Assisi sort of in protest, comes up with the nativity scene 1223 A.D. saying gift giving is fine but we need to get back to the real reason for the season. Jesus, the Son of God, was born in the manger. So whenever you see a nativity scene that Saint Francis of Assisi came up with that and then reformation starts 1517, Martin Luther. And by this time there's a Saints Day. For every day of the year, churches are filled with side altars and relics of saints, little pieces of bone or air. And they and Martin Luther considered all this a distraction from Christ. So he ends all the Saints days. But the Germans like the gift giving. So he moves all the gift giving to December 25th and says all gifts come from the Christ child. And the German pronunciation of Christ child is Chris Kindle like kindergarten kindercare. Chris means Christ and Kindle means child. Christ shall over the centuries Chris Kindle God pronounced Kris Kringle. So Kris Kringle is really Kris Kendall, which means Christ child. And I go into the history of the tree. So Saint Patrick left Britain around 400 A.D. and evangelized Drew in Ireland and used a three leaf clover to teach the Trinity. Well, from Britain in the 700, Saint Boniface also called Winifred evangelized the Germans. Now the Germans were pagan and they worshiped Thor. And that's where you get Thor's Day or Thursday. And Thor lived in a big oak tree in Geismar, Germany. Matter of fact, the Quakers wouldn't say Thursday because it was Pagan God day, so they called it fifth day. Wow. Right. And but Saint Boniface chops down Thor's tree. And then he points to an evergreen tree and says, Let this be the tree of the Christ child. See how it points toward heaven. Your houses are built a fur. Its leaves are evergreen. And so the evergreen tree became symbolic of Germans converting to Christianity the same way the three leaf clover is symbolic of the Irish converting to Christianity. And but Martin Luther's the one credited with coming home one day, singing stars twinkling and puts the candles and said, This is like the sky above Bethlehem on the night of Christ birth. Now we go to England and Henry the Eighth. And he brings the Reformation not because he wanted to focus on the Christ child. He just wanted another wife. Went on to have six wives. And so he brings back an old Roman holiday Saturnalia. Rome had been a British. Britain had been a Roman colony since 55 B.C. Julius Caesar invaded. And so Saturn was their god of feasting and plenty and merriment. If you remember the Christmas Carol with Charles Dickens. Yeah, there's the ghost of Christmas present. And he's a big, fat guy with robes on a wreath in his air goblet of wine grapes. And. And you're looking at him saying, Who is this guy? He sort of looks like Santa, but he sort of looks like some Roman God. Well, that was Saturn. But they Christianized him called them Father Christmas. They couldn't call him Saint Nicholas because they Nicholas was outlawed because of the Reformation. And so Christmas in England under Henry the eighth was bawdy. He had these big banquets with 60 horses, and he'd fling sugar plums at people, and they would have court jesting and throwing dice and bear baiting where they put bears in a pit, sort of like dog fighting to the death. And and they would have cross-dressing and mock bishops. Boy bishop, they boys dressed up as the bishops. And it was just, you know, chasing women, carousing, drinking, dancing, jostling where they'd take a drink of spiced ale and throw the rest of it on an apple tree for a good harvest. You know, good. And so the the the Puritans come along and they decide that Christmas is world. It's like Mardi Gras. 

Rick Green [00:06:00] All because of how it's been perverted. Yeah. 

Bill Federer [00:06:03] Yeah. And so Henry even had a lord of Misrule. 

Speaker 3 [00:06:07] Exactly. 

Bill Federer [00:06:08] Like Mardi Gras. Right. And so matter of fact, Mardi Gras started as a religious day. It was the day before Lent when you would fast 40 days before you'd celebrate the resurrection of Christ. And now it's a lewd party in New Orleans. That's sort of what happened to Christmas in England. And Henry the 8th. So the Puritans come along and they outlaw Christmas. They even tear down Shakespeare's Globe Theater in 1644. And so the Puritans settled New England and they had a five shilling fine for anybody caught celebrating Christmas. You're kidding. And so the Pilgrims, Puritans and most Presbyterians did not celebrate Christmas, but other immigrants did. German, French, Welsh, Irish, Italian, but especially the Dutch. Now, this is where it gets interesting, the same way that that Catholics have a saying St Peter's at the gates of heaven. The Dutch do a take on the Book of Revelation where Jesus will return at the end of the world to judge the living in the dead riding a white horse. Saints will come back with him riding white horses, right? Jude Chapter 1:14, it says. And the Lord will return with 10,000 times ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment. And so the reasoning is that Saint Nicholas is a saint. So he will be one of those riding a white horse, coming back with Jesus at the final judgment. But since he's so special to the Dutch, they have him coming back once a year for a little mini judgment day, a little check up on the kid, see who's naughty. See those nice. 

Rick Green [00:07:35] Little naughty or nice? 

Bill Federer [00:07:37] Yeah. And the. And just like the real judgment day, the books are opened. 

Rick Green [00:07:42] That's good. 

Bill Federer [00:07:43] Write that. Lamb's book of Life. The book of works. And he's judge and he's a little kid. And then as time went on, the angels turn into elves. Saints come from heaven. That turned into the North Pole. Riding a horse up in Finland, in Lapland, that turned into riding a reindeer and then pulling his sleigh. And and you can see where it gets a little off track. Yeah. One thing the Dutch had was no Saint Nicholas in the Dutch pronunciation is Saint Nick Claus. Right. Sinterklaas. So Santa Claus is the Dutch pronunciation of Saint Nikolaus. And and so they have a helper named Czar de Pete Black Peter. And he's a more he's a muslim. And they would tell the children if you're good Saint Nicholas, we'll give you a present. If you're not, he's vaa de Pete. We'll put you in a gunny sack, take you back to Spain and sell you into Muslim slavery. Wow. People forget Muslims controlled Spain for 700 years and enslaved over a million Europeans. 

Rick Green [00:08:44] That's a little bit worse than a lump of coal. 

Bill Federer [00:08:47] Yeah. And I've loved to have tormented my little brothers with that one. I was doing a radio interview call in, and a guy calls in is this I was raised in Holland, and the night before Saint Nicholas visited, all the boys would go to sleep with pocket knives in their pockets. I said, Why is that? Because that's to cut ourselves out of the gunny sack, right? And anyway, so the Dutch, the the patron saint of Amsterdam is Saint Nicholas. Why, he's remember he calmed the sea back in the story. And so he's considered the patron saint of sailors. And so the Dutch settle New Amsterdam and they make Saint Nicholas the patron saint of New Amsterdam, which becomes New York. And the first church they built in New Amsterdam was the Saint Nicholas Dutch Reformed Church. And when the British took over in 1664, they moved it, the burnt it and then moved it again and again. Finally, they built a big cathedral at on Fifth Avenue in New York. Teddy Roosevelt attended there. But in the 1930s and 40s, it turned into a financial district. Church membership dwindled and they sold the church to Sinclair Oil Company that tore down and built a big oil building. The congregation had moved and merged with the Marble Collegiate Dutch Reformed Church. And so it's like the second oldest church in New York. And many are familiar with Norman. Vincent Peale was the pastor from 1933 till he died and who went to that church but the Trump family. 

Rick Green [00:10:17] No kidding. 

Bill Federer [00:10:18] Interestingly enough. And so in New York, we see another transition. Washington Irving, he is the father of American literature. He wrote Rip Van Winkle, Legend of Sleepy Hollow, invented the name Gotham to describe New York. And he talks about these traditions. There's an old book that we his notes no longer in print, but it tells how Saint Nicholas would visit once a year, His flying his wagon over the treetops, thrown up presents to this favorites. But then he describes him not dressed as a bishop but dressed in a Dutch outfit of Flemish trousers. Long, long trunk shows the baggy pants. He has a two stocking hat, boots and a leather belt. And. And so. But he's still called Saint Nicholas. 

Rick Green [00:11:03] So that imagery didn't. So that was what 40's 50's was when he did that. 

Bill Federer [00:11:07] It was 1809

Rick Green [00:11:10] So that imagery of him began 200 year. Okay, Got it. 

Bill Federer [00:11:12] Yeah. And so the book is called Dietrich Knickerbockers History of New York from the Beginning to the End of the Dutch Dynasty. And so basically it's the 1640s up through the 1660s. But so he changes the outfit. 

Rick Green [00:11:29] What do you think is the most important thing to hold on to out of all of those traditions and all those? Like you said, sometimes it went off the rails or sometimes it got a little bit crazy and and some of it's just fun. I mean, what what do you think is good for people to to to still hold on to and and use I mean obviously the birth of Christ, the story of Christ. But using some of what Saint Nick did and trying to tap into some of those traditions that people are used to. 

Bill Federer [00:11:55] So he is alive. He's in heaven. He believes in Jesus doesn't come back once a year. But but but he's a Christian and he loved Jesus so much he went into the ministry. Yeah. And he was willing to go in to Roman prison and not deny his faith. That's good. And he stood up for the Trinity. He defended the father, son, the Holy Ghost. He confronted corrupt politicians. He preached against the pagan Diana worship. He would have been preaching against all the woke sexual agenda today preached against exposure of unwanted infants. He would have been a pro-life preacher today. But what we remember him. 

Rick Green [00:12:34] For stood up against fellow theologians. Right. And was willing to. 

Bill Federer [00:12:37] Yeah, yeah. And we remember him most because he was generous and gave to the poor and he wanted God to get the credit and not him. That's good. So he's a great example there and it's so good. But in the book I go through all these different traditions and. 

Rick Green [00:12:55] Remind me the title of the book. 

Bill Federer [00:12:57] Is called There Really is a Santa Clause The History of Saint Nicholas and Christmas Holiday Traditions. I go all the through all the things for 2000 years it was the most kings would get crowned on Christmas Day like Clovis king of the Franks and for 96 A.D., 10,000 Anglo-Saxons got baptized on Christmas Day in 597 by Saint Augustine A. Canterbury and you had Charlemagne is crowned Holy Roman Emperor on Christmas Day in the year 800. And and so William the Conqueror got crowned in Westminster Abbey on Christmas Day in the year 1066. This was like the day. Yeah. And so so I go through all that, the history. But again, the most important thing is that we acknowledge that a matter of fact, here he is German lit the national Christmas tree and he says that, you know, we celebrate the birth of Christ. And he goes, shepherds keeping their watch by their flocks at night. And the angels appear, glory to God in the highest. And he says, and the star of faith will guide us into the place of peace, as it did the shepherds 2000 years ago when the prophecy of Isaiah was fulfilled. Right. Here's Truman, who's a Baptist, but he's talking about the prophecy was fulfilled. And yeah, and and then I go through other things that happened on Christmas. I mean, even Apollo eight circles the moon on Christmas Eve of 1968. And they read from the chapter first chapter of Genesis, and then they wish America Merry Christmas. And even the James Webb Telescope was launched on Christmas Day and 2021. And I actually met the guy that was in charge of the launch. He talked about how they were moving everything down to South America and they were going to launch it from there. And but he picked the date and he picked he wanted it to be on December 25th. So now it's it's what joins those things that happened on December 25th. 

Rick Green [00:14:47] So much man what it American Minute best place to get the book are you just send people to Amazon what do you prefer. 

Bill Federer [00:14:54] Either if they go to American minute.com they can see some of my other books. Yeah and then also sign up for my American minutes. A little history email. 

Rick Green [00:15:02] Yeah, absolutely. Well I noticed you were war Christmas green for our interview today Bill God bless you man. So much great information. So it's so good to put this stuff in perspective and hold on to the good, you know, get rid of some of that extra that that that's not. But appreciate you so much, man. Merry Christmas. 

Bill Federer [00:15:19] Well, I appreciate you, Rick. And you're doing a tremendous work with Biblical Citizenship and Patriot Academy. And I, I brag on you around the country and I say that every church needs to have your program there, Biblical citizenship, Patriot Academy. 

Rick Green [00:15:33] So I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. We'll look forward to having you back soon. 

Bill Federer [00:15:37] All right. God bless. 

Rick Green [00:15:38] That's Bill Federer. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:16:48] Welcome back to the WallBuilder Show. Christmas Day, having a great time today. Celebrating Christmas. Learned a lot about Christmas. David and Tim Barton with us now, guys. Really cool. It's just I never knew those names. Kris Kringle, all that came from, you know, mispronunciations and all those kind of things and even just some of the connections. And I love the fact that that Saint Nick was at the Nicene Council. That's just a really cool part of history. 

David Barton [00:17:14] I dare say there's way too much church history in this. I had no clue. I mean, we're talking Justinian and we're talking Augustine and Constantine. And like you said, the Nicene Council on Saint Francis of Assisi. And I had no idea that Saint Nick really was a genuine saint. And I know, at least from the Catholic standpoint, to be a saint requires a number of proven miracles. They have to be historically documented. And so, you know, I had no idea that there was an actual genuine saint there that was the patron saint of Russia, the Russian Orthodox Church. I thought I mean, this is just that that kind of blows me away. I kind of thought he was really much more of a made up figure. And then to find that Martin Luther there in the Reformation, he's the guy that says, okay, December 25th, that's the day. I had no idea. All this stuff has that much biblical background to it. Well, and let me let me back up because. 

Tim Barton [00:18:11] I, I took extensive notes on this. And actually, I mean, like really extensive. I went back and listened to yesterday's program to make sure I was recording this down. I'm writing as feverishly as possible on today's program, listening in to the details. And when he points out that, I mean, it's it's way before Martin Luther. It was going all the way back right after the the Gentiles are coming to Christianity. And they're the ones that cared about birthdays because Jews didn't really track that news to me. I didn't know that. Yeah, that was that was news to me too, that usually I was like, Yeah, I want to be like, Wait a second. I want to email Rabbi Lapid right now. Our buddy Omer Eshel. Like I want to email some of our Jewish friends say, Hey, is like, this seems crazy. Tell me about this. But it was actually by 181 A.D. Church I church father suggested December 25th as one that should be celebrated because backing up Zachariah and Elizabeth and March 25th, I was recognized. They have an association for marriage. And nine months later, December 25th, like all of this happened and this is before the 247 A.D. Roman Emperor, a instituted the Feast of Soul Invictus. And so the idea that Christians didn't pick up December 25th from a pagan holiday, maybe the Pagans were using this established Christian holiday. And I know that was yesterday's program. This is just my extensive notes from that program. But but all this to say I mean, this is this is absolutely remarkable. And Rick, you already kind of gave a plug for his book. I have his book. I have not read that in a while. And maybe I was go back and read some of this. And I also really appreciate that Bill was very careful to talk about like, you know, there are some thoughts and tradition here, and here's some things that we know and think that that are verifiable. Here's some things that are speculated. And so just like we might do on some of the stories surrounding some of the founding fathers, where, you know, there's people that claim this, here's what the evidence, the best available evidence, here's what we know from that. You can draw some conclusions by going back to the original source. Bill does a great job laying some of that out. And certainly as you go through Saint Nicholas being part of the Greek Orthodox Foundation and the fact that he's as important to the Greek Orthodox as Saint Peter is the Catholic Church, I, I knew Saint Peter, as, you know, St Nicholas, a real person. I knew some of the story and largely because of being friends with Bill. I've heard some of the story before, but I didn't recognize in Greek orthodoxy that he's as big of a deal. Maybe a Saint Peter is of the Catholic Church. Like foundationally, I didn't know he was that big of a deal. And then just knowing him as background. And of course, there's there's a lot of stories that have come out around him and. Right. Was it that the the father had three daughters and he didn't have the dowry form and Saint Nick, you know, throws money in or puts money in and then the first one gets married and then the the second one's crying because she doesn't have the father to have money to give her the dowry. And without a dowry they couldn't be married. And so Saint Nick hears it. So he's given money to this one. And then the third daughter's crying because, Dad, you know these my older sisters can get married and I'm not going get married. And so then the next night he comes by, he's going to throw money in and it lands in a stocking drying over the fireplace. And they this is part of where these stories came from that led to Saint Nick or Santa Claus coming and putting things in stockings. And and there's some reason to question some parts of some of these stories. Is it true that he actually did take his wealth and give. To those in need? Yes. There's some well-documented things about him. But but again, just tracking this history and there's nobody I know that can give you like world history detail. Big picture, right? Saint Nicholas to the present day, like Bill can and guy, some of the things that he's bringing out really are fascinating. Some of it we have have known some of those details. Like even when he got into talking about how when you look at the seven churches in Revelation, how the Muslims came and they destroyed some of those churches. But here's what was interesting to me is the Saint Nick connection. Like we knew that we knew. That's part of the response. Even with the Crusades, the fall of Jerusalem, we knew some of the Crusades were in response to some of these jihads coming from some of these these Muslim nations and these Muslim leaders. But in 1087 that Saint Nicholas, his body was moved to Italy so that his his grave wouldn't be destroyed. And desecrating where these Muslims had been destroying some of the Christian graves. Just some of these details. And for us not to know it, it doesn't mean this this was not like well-documented information. We just we haven't taken a lot of time to study the Saint Nicholas. Right. The study, the Santa Claus story. But for him to be able to go through and show that certainly there's been a lot of the evolution of Saint Nick along the way to the Santa Claus story of today, but recognizing that certainly there was a real person, there was some grounding for some of this. And then I really appreciated his kind of going away conclusion. We've heard some of it like with the Puritans and the Pilgrims and knowing some of their distaste because some what happened in New York. But before we go there, I appreciated the fact that the things that we have known and said about Saint Nick is, look, he really was a Christian guy. He did love Jesus. And Bill said, Right, he loved you so much. You were in the ministry. He he was imprisoned for his faith. He confronted corrupt politicians. And I appreciated the fact that he pointed out Saint Nick was talking about the issues of the day and if he was alive today, he would be. What we know in America is one of those black robed regiment pastors. Right? He's calling out the issues. He's going to be pro-marriage and pro-life, just based on some of the things you already saw of of what he did, the fact he defended the Trinity. And one of the fun stories, of course, is that he actually slaps somebody who doesn't believe Jesus, son of God, but didn't believe that maybe he's is equal. And so he steps up and slaps Arius for not believing fully in the Trinity. And there's a lot surrounding that story. And when that story came out was way after the the council in Nicaea met. So there's some question surrounding it nonetheless. Right? The fact he's the defender of the Trinity, he gives money to the poor. He wanted God to get the credit and not him. There's so many really outstanding things about Saint Nick that if we're going to tell our kids right some of the story, it's worth noting if you're like a Santa Claus family, Santa Claus love Jesus, right? The Santa Claus took what God gave him and used it to bless and serve other people. There's a lot of good things we can tell in this Santa Claus story. 

David Barton [00:25:08] Yeah, it is really good to know our history and our traditions and where the stuff came from. That's kind of what we do with American history anyway. What? You know, what you say, what's actually happened? It changes the way you think. What changes the way you act and behave. And for a lot of folks, I mean, I love Christmas. Guys around here know I do Christmas music all year long. That's that's a holiday worth celebrating. 365 for me. That's that's a top holiday. And you know, going back to John Quincy Adams he thought that Christmas and 4th of July were America's top two holidays. Christmas is when Jesus came to Earth. That's when everything starts. And the 4th of July is when the founding fathers took the principles of Jesus and built a nation on it. And so, JJohn Quincy Adams looked at, both of those are religious holidays. But men do not let Christmas get secular. All the stuff that's going that's great. Just remember, this was a Christ oriented individual that we acknowledge. And what do you want to say? That's myth or not? There's no question Saint Nick is real. He's a real person. There's a real purpose there. And we do celebrate something that is biblical, the birth of Jesus Christ and what that's done for change in the entire world. So on this Christmas Day, remember to keep it Christ centered as you enjoy all the time with the family and the gifts and all the food and everything else. Remember to keep Jesus in the center of this. 

Rick Green [00:26:27] Really enjoyed our two Christmas programs. Guys, thanks so much. Merry Christmas to our entire audience. Thanks to Bill Federer for joining us yesterday for Christmas Eve and today for Christmas Day. Have a fantastic rest of your Christmas week. It seems like it's not Christmas Day this year. It's Christmas week. Thanks so much for listening to the WallBuilders Show