Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome the intersection of faith and culture. It's The WallBuilders Show and it's the Week of Christmas. We got a lot of great shows coming at you this week during Christmas week while you're celebrating with your family. Today we're going to bring back Rudy Atallah. We had him on last week, but he's going to be with us again today. After the break, guys, we just ran out of time last week when we had him on. There were so many topics to cover to just catch up on things that have been happening around the world. And one of the things we wanted to cover more with him was what the Nazarene Fund is doing rescuing persecuted Christians all over the world. And we wanted to talk a little bit more about what that might look like in 2025. 

David Barton [00:00:39] Yeah, when we talked to Rudy last week, we really were kind of looking at global stuff. He was really busy in Washington DC, like other members of the incoming administration. They're all meeting DC, getting their stuff together, figuring out what they're going to do first had to hit the ground running. They're really doing a great job of being prepared to really move things in a good direction. And that's what kept him really busy last week as the world seemed to be coming apart in so many areas. 

Tim Barton [00:01:03] Well, and guys, I mean, I'm still thinking about when Andrew, he was giving me in my mind, the big question is, are we should we be concerned about World War three or not? And that was very interesting. As he said, it's what you're seeing right now is a lot of nations posturing, like Russia and Ukraine, for example. They're posturing over what they think they might have to do, because once Trump gets there, he's going to really work to put an end to this. And so Putin will have more ground in Ukraine, might say, well, you can keep it, but we're going to NATO nation that there could be some major chess moves that are happening that as as we look from the outside and see so much of the conflict and think man, it looks like the Biden administration is pushing us in the World war three. It might it might not actually be a World War three coming, although there's still a lot of question marks. And unfortunately, we still have roughly another month before there's a transition. And some of this policy might change. However, just kind of looking at acknowledging of the challenges that Trump's going to have when he steps in. He's already working behind the scenes. We've talked about on the show, I think last week, even where there's a lot of national leaders already looking at President Trump and and recognizing he's really the person they're going to deal with. They're going to start making moves now. So it kind of getting that that overall assessment and input from Rudy was very interesting and fascinating. But soon as we were done, as we were talking to him about other details and asking him, hey, what's what's going on with some of the Christians around the world, we know there's persecution still at very high levels in a lot of nations. What what is what is a challenge for Christians in some of these nations? And there is a lot of stuff happening right now. He was telling us about some of the stuff going on in Syria where they're already with the Nazarene Fund. They're already doing some operations in Syria. And of course, he's giving us only some vague details and areas and we're probably not going to have him giving us really specific details because if there's an ongoing operation, obviously don't want to compromise people that are in the midst of operations. And if there's really strong Christian contingents in the midst of some pretty hostile places, you don't want to bring attention of the hostile people to those Christian villages and communities that then ultimately could bring death and destruction on them. So he's very strategic in what will tell us and how he tells us. But really, as he was telling us off air, some of the additional details we that we really need to get him back on to talk us through some of these sayings that that we didn't get a cover in the last time with him. 

David Barton [00:03:44] Yeah, there's been a lot going on. And quite frankly, just, you know, Tim and I on the board of the Nazarene Fund. And so we we get to work regularly with Rudy and across the world right now there are so many hot spots, persecution, Christians really high, particularly in what has happened in Syria in the fall. They're killing Christians, killing other religious minorities. So for those who are interested in that and a lot of folks weren't. And of course, Rudy was right in the center. What happened with Afghanistan three years ago when it was fall and we got about 70,000 folks out of there. But if you want to help with the Nazarene Fund, you can go to the Nazarene Fund and give there. And that money does get used to help rescue persecuted Christians. And nobody knows that world better than Rudy. And he's done a remarkable job. But we thought it would be good to really get him on and kind of say, hey, what does it look like for Christians right now in the Middle East with everything that's happened? 

Rick Green [00:04:35] The Nazarenefund.org. By the way, folks, if you want to go make a contribution, it's a great way to help people around the world. And David and Tim have been a part of this from the beginning, ten years now, and so many great missions and so many rescues. You just don't hear about them in the news. But great place to donate. Check that out today at the Nazarene fund.org. We'll be right back with Rudy Atallah

Rick Green [00:06:00] Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on The WallBuilders Show. We got Rudy Atallah back with us, had him on recently just to get caught up on everything that's going on around the world. But we wanted to get him back specifically. We missed a topic and we've actually had him on before about this topic, but we need an update on this one as well. And that is persecuted Christians around the world. And Rudy, thank you for coming back on, man. And of course, with the Nazarene Fund, y'all have been rescuing Christians all over the world for years and doing an amazing job. And we forgot to ask you about this the other day when we had you. So we wanted to get caught up on that as well. 

Rudy Atallah [00:06:31] Yeah, Well, thank you for having me. Let me I'll just give you a quick rundown. So in Syria, where the dynamics are changing radically in the in the difficult areas like Idlib, in the western Syria, where the radicals, when I say radicals, there are more Al Qaida type ISIS types that are part of a group called HTS those guys, those areas were difficult, very difficult for Christians were if Christians lived there, they were essentially subjugated, they were tortured, killed or basically used as second class citizens. The Christians that were in Damascus under the Assad regime, they were also essentially considered lesser. But the Assad regime allowed Christians to practice Christianity. So they didn't they didn't treat them the same way the radicals did, the Sunni radicals in in the northern part of the country. Now that the HTS have moved down and kicked out Assad regime and kicked out and took over Damascus, took out that region. Now what they're doing is they pushed the Christians out of that area and many of them are flocking in, racing to northeast Syria. They're pouring into Lebanon and other places, and many of them are on the run and afraid for their life because they know that this HTS group, this Sunni radical group, has no problems decapitating people or crucifying people or whatnot. So the Christians again, once again are anytime something happens in the region, like the Yazidis, the Christians are the first ones to to to get beat and to get her and to whatnot. And now they've run. 

Rick Green [00:08:22] Really, any time there's a regime change or anything like that, there's increased chaos. I guess it's a it's increased likelihood of persecution. 

Rudy Atallah [00:08:30] Correct? Exactly. And so so what we're trying to do is essentially help those Christians. Right now, we've we've got, you know, thousands of them pouring in. We're trying to help the ones that are stuck in certain areas and the ones that are coming to us bring them into Iraq and to to feed them, help them and whatnot. But you also have to remember, under now when they come into northeast Syria, that region itself also is controlled by the Kurds. And we support those Kurds, the SDF. And in those areas, you have you have prisoners, you have ISIS's prisoners somewhere to the tune of, you know, 55 to 75,000 ISIS prisoners that we had captured from many years back. Those are all in there now. Remember, they have connections to this group that took over into Damascus from the north with the help of the Turks. They've they've conquered that western side of Syria. So eventually, once they establish themselves, you know, they're going to come back to try to push into eastern Syria to go and try to rescue their families or do something if they get very, very strong. And who's caught in the middle? Of course, always the Christians are caught in the middle. And so this is a very difficult time for Christians, especially even this time of year. They're all fighting for their life. And this is something that we just need to really keep an eye out and try to help out. Thank God Israelis have really bombed a lot of and the U.S. as well. But primarily Israelis have hit a lot of bunker targets where the Syrian regime has kept a lot of weapons. In fact, they hit some pretty big depots of weapons closer to the Mediterranean front, Tartus and so on, so forth. And the reason why that's important is because now it diminishes the ability of these radical Sunnis that are Al Qaida affiliated, ISIS affiliated to get their hands on bigger weapons. So Israel is really dismantling those capabilities. 

David Barton [00:10:37] They're just talking about Lebanon. I didn't know all that much about Lebanon. You're from Lebanon. You went the Lebanese civil war. But you're telling me that that because the border on Israel got really fluid there and got overrun, they were attacking that. That grows for many more Muslims and that it threatened the Christian population there. And I wasn't aware. But you told me that the constitution for Lebanon requires that there be a. Christian, president of Lebanon. And so with all these these terrorists flocking in to attack Israel, it makes it harder on the Christians there. So is this situation changing what's happening with Christians in Lebanon? You mentioned a lot of Christians are leaving Syria to go to Lebanon. So what happens when they get there with that? Would that, I guess, conflict that's going internally? 

Rudy Atallah [00:11:21] Yeah. So this is where it's it's very fluid and it's very complex. But let me break it down. So let's look at Lebanon first. Right? So when Israel came in, it was hitting a lot of targets inside southern Lebanon all the way up to Beirut, north of a river called the Litani River. And those are the targets that Israel was hitting as primarily all Hezbollah targets in and around Christian towns are small enclaves of Christian areas like, you know, little towns like, you know, Ramesh and Anibal. And these are all little towns of, you know, several thousand Christians. A lot of these Christians can't afford to leave. So some of them pushed north, you know, because what happens is normally Hezbollah used to come in and it would set up their their their rocket launchers near, you know, Christian churches or Christian schools. And then Israel would have to be very careful when it tried to take those rocket launchers out. And then when you destroy them, sometimes there would be some spill over into a church or a school or a building or whatever. So it was very difficult. So a lot of the Christians would try to leave. Israelis are extremely surgical with what they did. But at the same time, when when the when Israel hit, a lot of the Shia that are part of Hezbollah moved also into Syria and also poured into Beirut. So it created this very mixed dynamic of a lot of refugees. Now, the Christians are trying to come back and now also with the Sunnis in Syria getting moving south to take over Damascus, it's cutting off the the roads for Iran. And a lot of the Shia and the Shias that escaped from Lebanon that were pro Hezbollah are now pouring back into Lebanon. So now it's creating another dynamic with the Christians where they're having these frictions, with the Christians saying we're coming back to our territory. But guess what? We don't want you Shia are coming back because you guys were pro Hezbollah and we got bombed because you are the ones that supported Hezbollah. So this is the dynamic that's going on right now. And you're correct, David, by saying that the constitution in Lebanon, the it's called a de stood in Arabic states that the the the president must be Christian. Maronite Christian, the head of the military must be Christian as well. Members of the parliament are basically partitioned based on the the percentages of Muslim like Catholic, Christian, Orthodox, Christian, Druze, Sunni, Shia. So it goes by sects and everybody gets a certain portion in the parliament. And then the prime minister must be Sunni. So it's very divided along those sectarian lines right now that those are those are parts of the discussion and the reestablishment of a government in Lebanon. The Christians are trying to get a stronger upper leg. So, A, there's no more money coming in from Iran to support the remnants of Hezbollah, which are Shia, and they're getting support. The Christians are getting some support by the Sunni Muslims and the Druze Muslims, essentially to kind of push Hezbollah, because Hezbollah was way too strong and it literally controlled almost everything inside Lebanon. So how does that play into Syria? Well, that plays into Syria in a couple of parts. Normally, Lebanon is 30% Christian, 30 to 35% Christian. It's the most populous Christian country in all of the Middle East. It used to be close to 70% Christian in the 1940s. Well, you can see how much it's diminished over time. And now the Christians are trying to get the upper hand essentially to bring back business, to bring back control and to bring back peace by saying, look, if you're a Shia muslim and you're not pro-Hezbollah, you, you know, we're fine with you. We want you because you're our neighbor. If you're Sunni, Muslim, you're our neighbor. If you're a Druze, you're our neighbor. As long as you do not want the destruction of the country and you treat everybody fairly. So this is where that conversation having in Syria, it's a lot more complicated because you have a Sunni radical group with all these offshoots of other groups that supported it. The came all the way into Damascus with support from Turkey. And some of these radicals are really radicals. They're the ones that have the beards down to their, you know. They're their belt and they're the ones that don't mind beheading somebody if the remotely looked Christian. And so this is where now it's like, okay, what's going to go on in Syria? Are we going to be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together in a way where all the. All the different groups can come back and make a cohesive Syria or is it going to be completely radicalized to where now everybody's going to be killed? We're going to have spillover to Lebanon and other neighboring countries with these radical al Qaeda ISIS types that are running around. So that's why it's so complicated. 

David Barton [00:16:36] So what does that do for Christians in the meantime? And what are you doing with the Christians there? All the work you do to help persecuted Christians. 

Rudy Atallah [00:16:44] So we're trying to help the Christians in southern Lebanon as much as we can get themselves go back to their villages, bring back their family members, reestablish themselves. And then as long as Israel has control in that buffer zone in southern Lebanon, the Christians will be able to breathe easy. In Syria, it's a very different story. They're being persecuted. They're getting killed. They're being targeted. So what we're trying to do is trying to rescue the ones that need rescuing, stabilize, the ones that need stability, give them a place to to to survive, bring them into these oasis where they're protected and then watch the situation very carefully just to see what happens. And who replaces a Syrian regime next? And that's going to be a big question for the big powers to be the United States, Europe, whatever, of how do you build Humpty Dumpty and you push the radicals out of the picture? Because a lot of these radical Sunnis in Syria right now are saying, no, we're moderates. We care about everybody stroking a white cat, you know, with a very evil thoughts in their heads. And we don't want that to take root at all. And that's what so we're working very closely and we're monitoring the situation, but we're helping thousands of Christians right now. 

Rick Green [00:18:00] Rudy, what's the way people can help with Nazarene Fund? I mean, I'm assuming we can donate, right? 

Rudy Atallah [00:18:06] Yeah, Donations are so helpful, especially consistent monthly donations, because it gives us a a consistent budget in which we can just go, here's what's coming in every month we can allocate to these this group and that group. And we've really like, we have some amazing examples of villages where I remember when ISIS devastated Iraq and, you know, 2015, 2016 timeframe, you know, we've got we've gone like villages where there were no Christians, there were all wiped out. And then we went and found these families that were pushed away. We brought the ones that were missing. We put them all together in like one particular village, al-Kuwaiti, for example, we brought back 200 Christian families that were pushed out of there. It's a thriving little village back again. We've we've we've done everything. We've done it with several different villages where we've done this. We brought priests, churches, rebuilt congregations. So we're doing a lot of that. 

Tim Barton [00:19:05] Hey, Rudy, this is a little bit of a different direction in the same topic. I know we've talked before about this, but one of the things that that we've heard over the last year or two is about how God has been on the move and so many places, Middle East, Africa, people are having visions and Muslims having these radical conversions. And and I want to go that direction just for a minute. I know we got to wrap up this interview, but obviously, as we look at America, it's very apparent for us at WallBuilders as we study history and we recognize some of the first and second great awakening and you kind of see some of the patterns and you recognize me and God is on the move. And it doesn't mean that things are going to necessarily be easy. It doesn't mean there's not going to be conflict or problems or that people don't need to rise up and kind of roll up their sleeves and get involved and make a difference. But it's it's evident for us that God is on the move. But as we look internationally, we're hearing stories about God being on the move as well and kind of following the same lines. It doesn't mean there's not conflict, there's not problems and there's not a need for help. But do you see some of the same things that we're seeing in these reports about these radical conversions, people coming to Christianity? Can can you address that for just a moment? But again, I know we're kind of trying to wrap this up a little bit, but can you speak to that? Sure. 

Rudy Atallah [00:20:31] I mean, look, we always have conversions. A lot of times when you see this extreme evil coming in from these very radical groups that are out there and the killings and everything, you have Muslims that just literally say, I don't want to be part of that anymore. That's not who I am. I don't believe in the, you know, beheadings and the torturing and the killings. And so I need to I need to find something else. And oftentimes they're less vulnerable and so they'll turn around and you end up having conversions. I mean, we baptize people and in tubs and and in people's people's homes. These conversions are happening all over the place. They take they, you know, but when they happen, oftentimes the person can go, hey, I was a muslim, I'm a Christian. Now look at me. Because the next thing they do is they get whacked. And so they quietly have to maintain what, you know, their conversion and they go practice quietly. And yes, we see this in. And also what what happens whenever you see these movements sometimes, for example, in Lebanon, Christians, despite the bombings and the killings and the shellings, they open up their homes and they say, we don't care who you are, we don't care if you're Sunni or your Shia. If you're hungry, come in. We will feed you because this is what Jesus would do. And oftentimes these families that are hurting come in to a Christian home. They break bread and then they find this time of peace and saying, wow, these people are have very little, but they're giving us what little they have. We love them. And then it turns their hearts over. Right. So it's something within our faith as Christians that, you know, we're able to turn the other cheek in the middle of chaos, in the middle of us being what little we have, we give in. And you see a lot of conversions and a lot of heart changes in the middle of all this. So so, yes, very much so. We see quite a bit of that. But, you know, it's difficult sometimes to talk about these things because you can't say, I'm I'm seeing conversions in this town because all of a sudden the wrong groups will converge on that town and say, who converted or who this or who did this or who did that. And and so we just keep it quiet and we just load the Lord do his work. And and trust me, he's working, He's working. And I think, honestly, between all of us, this is a time this is an age of grace that we're entering in, even in this own country. I truly, from the bottom of my heart, believe we're going to see revival in this country. We're going to see hearts changing in this country. And that's going to spill over all over the place. And we're going to see it across the Middle East. But evil is going to be evil, and evil is going to turn as dark as it can in the middle of all of this. But we're we know what the last chapter of the Bible looks like. We know the whole Bible looks like. So we win. 

Rick Green [00:23:40] I had I had heard my pastor just a few weeks ago, had mentioned from the pulpit something about a just revival in Iran, that there were just a ton of conversions in Iran, that the church was. Yes, in Iran like crazy. And then Tim and I are friends with a with a UFC fighter, Beneil Dariush, who's an Assyrian Christian from Iran. I've been meaning to text on Tim and ask him about that. But Rudy, you've probably heard some of that as well, I would think. 

Rudy Atallah [00:24:05] I met us a couple of years ago. What's his name, The Heavenly Man. He wrote the book The Heavenly Man. It's the man. It's the Chinese man who was in prison in that. And the doors opened up for him after being tortured for for Christ for many, many years after converting. 

Tim Barton [00:24:28] It says Brother Yoon. 

Rudy Atallah [00:24:29] Brother? Brother Yoon? Yes. I met Brother Yoon. I send you the photo. I spent some time talking to him and we spent some good time talking to. I spent good time talking and fellowshipping and I said, What do you see? What do you see happening in this world? And Christianity was the biggest growth. And he said, the fastest growing church in the world is in Iran. Wow. I said, How is it that it's Iran? He goes, Well, because because a lot of the underground church in China is 150 million plus. And when we say like 150 million plus, you know, by Chinese standards, it's not it's not that that big, but it's fairly big. What they do in the underground church is they take Chinese workers and they sneak them into they they sneak them into a lot of the construction companies that are going to Iran to build the roads and whatnot. And a lot of these pastors go into Iran. They go to other places like Saudi Arabia, whatnot. And then they quietly preach the word. And they're showing so many youth. The fastest growing church right now in the world is in Iran, the underground church. A lot of the youth are giving their life to Christ. And so that's why I think regime change. You can you I, I will say this. I'll just between all of us, I'll say there's a some point when the regime collapses and Iran turns around and becomes this prosperous nation again, I would not be surprised if you see many churches pop up across the entire country and you see and you start seeing conversions so much that they start radicalizing and basically bringing believers to Christ from Iran into other parts of the world. Remember this evil that was now pushing evil around the world can be the turning point where now God's preaching his word from that from that country. 

Rick Green [00:26:21] Amen. Such a good report. Such a good report. Rudy Atallah, God bless you, man. Thanks for joining us today. 

Rudy Atallah [00:26:27] I love you guys. 

Rick Green [00:26:28] That was Rudy Atala. Thanks for joining us today, folks. Be sure. Go to our Web sites. Wallbuilders.com for all those great tools for yourself and your family and then WallBuilders dot show. If you've missed some programs in the last few weeks you can pick them there up there at WallBuilders.show. We sure appreciate you listening to The WallBuilders Show.