Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's a WallBuilders show on Thanksgiving Day. Lots to be thankful for today. And we thank you for listening to the program. You can listen to more at WallBuilders Dot shows where you can get the archives of the program from the last few weeks and then be sure go to wallbuilders.com. That's our main website. Lots of great tools to get there. And also you can look up some of the articles on Thanksgiving, maybe even read some of those Thanksgiving proclamations at your gathering today when you're with your family. I'm Robert Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And guys, wow, where do you start right now? I just thank the Lord because the sun is shining brighter, the grass is greener. I'm not sure why, but it just seems like everything's a little better this year at Thanksgiving than last year. And I shouldn't be like that, right? I know we're supposed to just be even keeled, but. Whew! I got a lot to be thankful for. How about you guys? 

David Baton [00:00:54] There's a lot to be thankful for and I really see some good things for long term and short term. I mean, just not only with what's going on with our family and what's going on around us and WallBuilders and so many things. I mean, we have such great staff and just good stuff going on. But at the same time, I'm looking at the country and I'm looking at the world and I'm seeing some good trends headed, I think, in a right direction that that could be some good news for the long term depending on what we do in the meantime. But I'm saying the first steps towards something I haven't seen in a long time, and that is it's really a good overall perspective right now. Looking forward to a lot to be thankful for if it all happens the way we think it's going to. 

Tim Barton [00:01:36] Well, that I think no matter what happens, right. We're already thankful that it's better, at least from a election presidential standpoint, it's it's a better option than what the other one would have been. Right. So whether President Trump is able to follow through on a lot of what we hope he's able to do, a lot of what it looks like he's posturing to do, and even some things we're seeing on the international stage where there's already some of these nations that are having peace talks and at least coming to the table. There's already some cease fires happening. There's a lot of positives we already see. And so even if we don't get the fulfillment of maybe some of our hopes of what could be what we think are possibilities right now, it's so much better than what the other option is. And we've talked about this a lot, I think both on air, off air on some of our friends programs and podcasts. And actually, I think even today, many of us are all of us are having different interviews airing all over the place on podcasts. And we're on some TV station talking about the history of Thanksgiving and making some of those connections. But I think practically speaking, where we are, we have we have so recognized God's hand, very active in America up to this point where we are right now on this Thanksgiving, that it's something that is is so easy to go, man, look what God did, right? I mean, go back. President Trump turned his head that the boy next year could have could have taken his life had his life been taken. There could have been a civil war. And I'm not using hyperbole. I'm not trying to exaggerate. I think there literally could have been a civil war had President Trump been assassinated. The fact that he doesn't just win the Electoral College vote, he wins the popular vote. And so. Right. That puts a lot at at rest, an at ease where there could have been accusations. The other side saying that this whole thing is rigged. He won the Electoral College, but not the popular vote, because they don't understand how the Electoral College works and why it was a brilliant system when it was set up, seeing Republicans take the Senate and maintain the House again. Just there's so many things we can already be thinking God for. And then of course, with some of the appointments and we've covered this a lot at length over the last several weeks, post-election conversations. But even if we don't get a lot more than some of the ground we've already taken, there's still a reason to be great, very grateful and very thankful. But I'm also thankful that God has given us, in essence, what we would kind of consider at least what I would consider a respite that instead of America positioning yourself where judgment awaits, right, where we're rejecting God's standards and God's principles. And just like God told the Israelites, you do it my way, you're enjoying blessings everywhere you go, you'll be blessed. But if you reject my standards of principles, then you're going to suffer the consequences, which is the curses and. And that's going to chase you everywhere you go. And we we have been in a position where it would have made sense that we could have had more curses coming our way. But God, in his grace and mercy, has given us a respite. And I really do think we have an opportunity that to steward these next several years. And there could be some very incredible, cool, fun things that happen as a result. But I'm just so thankful for God's clear hand leading up to this point. I had the chance earlier this week, I was in Tennessee speaking to the the Tennessee legislatures that they're Republicans. They had a little bit of a caucus kind of retreat, leadership strategy session, things going on. And they invited me to come talk to him and I gave him some thoughts on history. But even being there, one of the things we recognized is that God is just like God did miracles throughout history, especially in America. We outline and talk about a lot of those. It's so clear that God has continued to do miracles, just like the Founding Fathers wrote about. God's providence was so clear. It was so obvious you couldn't deny it. I think we're at a place that what we have seen over the last several months for anybody who has eyes to see, it is so clear that God has been involved that God's providence has been at work and we are now at a much better place because of it. 

David Baton [00:05:46] And let me kind of add to that, too, because there's some things that I've been watching that I guess you could say they're election related, but they're not necessarily political. And part of that is that after the election you started seeing that when the progressive media doubled down, people just flat turn it off in a way they had not done before the election and their numbers just plummeted. And as a result, you've seen, you know, NBC start divesting itself of some of its some of its media arms out there because they're so far out of touch. And it's interesting that you're seeing people walk away from what we've had for the last 15 to 20 years in the way of progressive type things. Now I see that is really healthy. I mean, just you look at what's going on right now because people are walking. Away from it. I mean, even Disney has their rider coming out with some really new woke stuff. You know, transgender sports stuff. And Disney itself canned it. And the rider said, How dare you, Candace? And it's like there's a conflict going on internally between those that are doubling down, but they're losing. It's kind of like you're getting laryngitis. People aren't really hearing them. They listen to them right now. And so looking at all the companies that have moved away from D-I just since the election, I mean, Walmart and other big companies moving just since the election, and it's like this thing has had cultural ripples that really go much further than doing what ever expected and a lot quicker than I thought as well. 

Tim Barton [00:07:14] And that may be worth clarifying. I don't think Disney has moved away from the DIY stuff. I think they've toned it down a little bit. But but I want to be clear because I don't think their name belongs in the same lane as like a Wal-Mart or a tractor supply or some of these organizations that came out publicly saying, Hey, we're not going to do DIY anymore. We're getting away from from some of this woke ideology where they have very publicly acknowledged that. I think Disney is trying to tone down the woke rhetoric. But I don't see any indication they're going the same direction as, for example, a Walmart, which that's a more recent thing. I think earlier this week maybe. 

David Baton [00:07:49] Yeah, it was. 

Tim Barton [00:07:50] When that was really public kind of information. But to your point, it is really encouraging that we are seeing some of these companies recognize that what has been the loudest voice the last couple of years is not the majority voice. And the fact that they're now swinging back a little bit more toward the middle is very refreshing and encouraging for sure. 

David Baton [00:08:13] And the part that I found really interesting with Disney is they have not really put in leadership that is less woke. I guess maybe it's not as much out front, but they decided not to air some of these episodes over the really loud objection of the writers and the actors in it. And I thought, Well, that's good. You know, they're not being run around by their staff and by others. And so somebody's saying this is not a good idea. And that's that's what I saw even from Disney, which I didn't expect was some ground there. 

Tim Barton [00:08:43] Well, I think it was probably somebody who is looking at the viewership of those programs during that time. When they air, they're like, hey, why is nobody watching this? And so I think on some level, right, that they made a pragmatic decision that this this doesn't benefit us. Why would we keep doing this? But but to your point, if they were fully sold out, they could pursue that and ultimately lose all kinds of money. But I think they've lost enough in some of those areas to realize, you know, people are buying into some of this woke victimology, especially in what should be some of these iconic movie franchise spin offs. And you're making it less woke victimology. Nobody wants to watch a hero. That's a woke victim. That's ridiculous. And so I do think it's it's probably more pragmatic than ideological. Nonetheless, the fact that people are choosing to not watch that is still very encouraging in culture, that the majority of people are not buying in to the woke nonsense. 

David Baton [00:09:46] And you know, the other thing that I've seen is we're in the middle of football season right now, clearly, and college football and pro football, etc.. And as much as we've talked in the last two years of how many people are now coming out very openly with their Christian faith and coaches and others, it's like they've doubled down this year. I mean, just the quantity of athletes who are not just acknowledging God, but almost giving sermons and they're, you know, after game interviews, it's really remarkable to see the growth, the faith as well, openly. 

Tim Barton [00:10:17] Well, it's also interesting that one of the more popular celebrations now is the Trump dance. Right. On a weekend, you'll see different teams and collages put together and, you know, even silly when people were asking if the NFL would find someone for doing, you know, this political statement, which is just ridiculous considering, you know, the Colin Kaepernick scenario and so many other things. But the NFL's said, hey, they're allowed to, you know, have their celebrations. They can do this and that. So, so many NFL players have now come out very boldly. And really, it's so many athletes across the board. I think once you had Dana White from the UFC and you had so many UFC individuals courageously standing up, it made it a lot easier for other people where you had, you know, a Wayne Gretzky, right. Or some of these significant NFL stars and some golf stars and leaders and personalities. It is interesting that I think it very well could be because Trump was able to win the popular vote and the Electoral College by such a high degree that it let them know that they don't need to worry about the woke mob outrage because the majority of Americans are on their side. But that's your point. We are seeing a lot more courage on a lot of levels from a lot of athletes, especially about their faith, but even about maybe some of their political ideology. Which we've not seen much and say, Yeah, I know where we're approaching. Probably need to take a break pretty soon. But there really is a lot that we can and should be thankful for in culture, in the climate. Not that there's not issues. And I know right now as people are listening. Some are on their way to go see family. Some are driving back from family. Maybe some are going to see family because of the the nonsense drama, chaos of what their life might be. And so it's not that there's not challenges and problems, which maybe after the break I guys we get we can dive into some of the history of of Thanksgiving because whether it be like for the pilgrims when they have the first Thanksgiving in America, so to speak. Right. That's that's the one that we certainly remember in the narrative or when Abraham Lincoln, during the middle of the Civil War, declares Thanksgiving a federal holiday, for neither of those situations. Was it that the peaceful, abundant scenario that a lot of people associate with times of giving thanks? The pilgrims have their people just died, Abraham Lincoln in the middle of a civil war, and yet they still recognize we need to take time to thank God for who he is, for what he's done, that he's still on the throne, he's still on the move. And anyway, we can probably talk more about that after the break. But it's not to say that everything's good, but there are a lot of things we can look at and recognizing nowadays that God is on the move, that good things have been happening and there are reasons to give thanks. 

Rick Green [00:12:58] Yeah, I don't know if if I repeat something that both of you already said, does that mean I'm doubling down or tripling down at this point? But everything you're said, man, and I think the thing that surprises me the most that I'm super, super thankful for is the theme of what you both said, and that is that the culture itself is is seems to be turning. You know, it's not just a particular leader, it's that you're seeing it everywhere. And so when even pop culture is starting to once again, like William Wilberforce said, we're making being good, fashionable again, again, huge work to do, massive rot in the culture out there to turn around. But wow, what positive signs that it is moving in the right direction and that we do have the freedom to speak these things and that these athletes feel the freedom to speak freely about their faith or to express their, you know, political views. Just that that freedom, that the scent of freedom, the taste of freedom in the air right now as people are realizing that we beat back tyranny and we're shifting from defense to offense. What a wonderful thing to see happening right before us. Quick break. It's Thanksgiving Day. Hope you're having a great time with your family today. We'll be right back. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:15:13] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanksgiving Day. Today we've been talking about what we're thankful for, probably before the day's over. People expect us to definitely talk about a little bit of their Thanksgiving history. We debunk a lot of that stuff at the Web site. So go to wobblers.com. Read some of the articles. Man, I don't know how many videos are available there as well. On on the history of Thanksgiving. Tim I even replayed in the tavern this year for Thanksgiving my interview with you last year in the tavern because it was so good and you just went through so much of that of that history. So we won't relive a lot of that. But suffice it to say, we've got a lot to be thankful for just to be able to talk about that history and that foundation that made America so great all the way back in the beginning. 

Tim Barton [00:15:53] And Rick, for anybody listening as well, our book, The American Story, The Beginnings, we actually go through the Pilgrim story. It's footnoted, documented. You mentioned we try to debunk a lot of the false accusations that are out. There are people are saying it should be a day of mourning and not a day of Thanksgiving because look at what the mean bad white people did to the poor, innocent, peaceful natives. And there's a lot of misnomers. There's a lot of dishonesty in some of that. But the book, The American Story, The Beginnings, we go through a lot of that. And then there's, as you mentioned, Rick, all kinds of videos out there. So definitely some good resources where we'd encourage you, please don't just take our word telling you the story. We've footnote and documents. You can go back and read from the original source to know so much of what that story is. 

David Baton [00:16:38] And, you know, from a biblical perspective, just going back to what Tim was talking about just before the break, first Thessalonians 517 says in everything give thanks. And that's whether it's gone good or bad. It's not that you're giving thanks for everything, but in everything you give thanks. And you know, as Tim mentioned, the Pilgrims and Lincoln, it wasn't that everything was going good. Let's have a day of Thanksgiving. It was this is the right thing to do. And, you know, just doubling down on that, even with athletes. I mean, it's it's kind of cool to faith to be coming back in again. But at the same time, remember the Jesus said Matthew 12, If you confess me before, man, I'll confess you before my father. And that doesn't mean when everything is going good, that's it. Just be bold and have that boldness. And so that's one of the things I think that I hope comes through as a result of this changing culture is that that becomes an attitude of life and lifestyle, not based on circumstances, but that's just the right thing to do. 

Tim Barton [00:17:34] And yet along those lines, I mean, certainly we have the example of the Pilgrims and Lincoln, which are two very significant examples when it comes to the history of Thanksgiving in America. But the reasons, even when you read the Psalms, when David is is calling out and encouraging, praising God, it's for who God is and what God has done. It's not because of how we feel in the moment, because there are so many psalms word. David does not feel good and he lets God know. Like I'm not happy right now. And you know, whether or not that's the best biblical position to take. The Bible clearly tells us in many occasions what happened and doesn't encourage us to to duplicate and replicate. Right. That attitude or behavior. Sometimes it's like, hey, this is what they said, this is what they did. But the reality is, when we see the example from the Psalms, it's never it's never praising God in the good times and not the bad times. I mean, the story of job, right, where job loses everything and there was actually a war over his worship. Where is Satan? Right? Comes before God and God's like, if you consider my servant job and things like, well, it's only because you're giving him so many good things and God's like, That's not why he praises me, right? That's that's not why he gives things to me. And you have this whole test of the whole book of job. It's so it's a spiritual war over jobs worship. And the reason I bring it up is because that's your point. The clear biblical encouragement and admonition for us is that we're supposed to praise God for who he is and what he's done. Be thankful to God for who he is and what He's done in spite of our circumstances. And not just praise when it's good, but praise all the time. And going back to the Pilgrims, this is certainly the example we see from them. For those that don't remember, the Pilgrims started off as a church in England and in England. Some of the background history. England was Anglican at the time they were there. Prior to that, most of Europe had been Catholic. Actually, much of the area, many parts of the world had been Catholic. But I, King Henry the eighth was on the throne in England, and he really wanted a son. And his wife kept giving him a daughter. And he was really upset with her about that. He he didn't understand biology, that that that's actually a dad and you know, that that's kind of the determining factor when it comes to gender of the child. But he wanted a divorce. He went to the pope. The pope said, we don't just arbitrarily give these divorces. It's not something we do. And he was angry. And so he said, well, I don't want to be Catholic anymore. He formed his own denomination. The Anglican did was they considered it a different religion, although it was still Christian. But he determined as the head of the Anglican Church, he would grant himself a divorce. And he did. But then he determined that everybody. In his kingdom would be Anglican. And this set a little of a precedent that there were many other kings that would follow some of the same thought. For example, in Germany you had to be Lutheran. In Spain, you were Catholic, but in England you were Anglican. Different kings would kind of choose their own thoughts when it came to religion and in force the people. The Pilgrims grew up having a different thoughts than what was imposed on them by the Anglican Church leaders because they were reading the Bible and going, Man, we're seeing the Bible say this, but the King and the England leader saying something else. So they were trying to be able to worship God according to their own understanding, the Bible. They had to undergo persecution in England, ended up that drove them to Holland while were in Holland. They had more freedom. But how long was secular? And they did want their kids to grow up being secular. And so they wanted a place where they could grow their family and really build their own community, their own faith community, and they determine the good in the new world. They had to get a charter, a grant permission from the king, and they did. And they could go settle in Jamestown colony. And I mean kind of argue the Jamestown colony. That could have been most of North America at that time. They really didn't have specific boundaries and the king thought it was all his anyway. But when they left England, their idea was to go to an established location where there was already people that there's already homes or shelter. There's food and there's fuel. We're going to be okay. Well, as they get ready to leave that summer, they have two boats, the Mayflower and the Speedwell. It's argue that the crew on the Speedwell was intentionally sabotaging the expedition because the Speedwell kept getting holes in it. They'd get a little out to the ocean and they had holes out to go back. And it took them a couple of times of going through this before they they kind of thought, you know, something fishy is going on right now. 

David Baton [00:21:56] Well, it was kind of strange that all the holes were the same shape as the drills and that the same size diameters of drills. And it was just really weird how these these fish kept eating holes through the through the hole of the ship, the same sizes. Okay, Tim, back to you. 

Tim Barton [00:22:12] Well, right, So so some speculation like, hey, I think something fishy is going on. No pun intended on that one. But when they get back to England, they realize we weren't not we'll take two boats and make it over this year. So there's going take the Mayflower. Well, it was a church congregation and now they can't get all their church congregation onto one boat. And so their pastor tells them, Hey, you guys go on when you get there. Don't don't let that the culture influence you. Read your Bible. Do what it says. Give them that kind of talk. When they leave England in September and it's a couple month journey. They don't get over to America until November in North America, but also when they arrive, winter storms are going on and the winter storms were blowing their sails so hard they were not able to sail to Jamestown. It blew them north. And so they end up having to go to a place that is undeveloped. There's no homes, there's no food, there's no fuel. And they arrive wintertime snows on the ground and they have to navigate. And this is what leads to that first winter, nearly half of their people died. It was a terrible first winter. But providentially, when when spring is approaching, the first native they encounter was Somerset and Somerset spoke a little English and was friendly. And this took them back because they'd always heard from Jamestown how mean the natives were. And it's really because the people of Jamestown worked really great people in many regards when it came to the interaction with so many of the early native tribes. But the Pilgrims had been influenced by that thinking, and so they thought they were had these terrible encounters with the natives. But Somerset was friendly and he spoke English and it totally took them back. And Somerset said, Well, I don't speak English that well, but somebody else in our group, he he knows a lot of English. So Somerset goes back and ends up coming back later with a delegation. Among the delegation was a chief of the Wampanoag Indian chief Massasoit. Quanto was also in that delegation and quanto spoke fluent English. And I don't have time to get his backstory right now, but it's totally worth looking in this Quantas back story. It's amazing. I mean, providentially, God had positioned him as exactly what the Pilgrims needed to keep them alive. Squadrons up living with him for two years shows them how to hunt, how to fish, how to grow crops and survive in the new world. When it came to the first Thanksgiving that fall, when they harvest some of their crops, they're going to they're going to take time to thank God, because the first winter they were there, they had no food, they were out of food, and they were didn't have any clean water. There's no homes, there's no firewood cut. And this time they actually have some food and then they have water and they have homes and firewood. And they didn't have the abundance that sometimes we associate in America with like this incredible Thanksgiving, so much provision that they didn't have so much provision, but they had enough. They thought we might actually survive and not like all die this winter. And when they decided to celebrate, they invited their friends, the natives. The Wampanoag needed to come join them. Chief Massasoit came with 90 Indian Braves for three days. They fellowship, they feasted. They had athletic competitions. The natives. Provided so much of the food because the pilgrims had had the harvested food, but it wasn't abundance yet. And so it's this incredible narrative that you have this this great friendship that is forged between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Indians. In fact, the longest lasting peace tree between any white people and any natives was between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Indians. And it really is this beautiful picture of so much of the foundation the pilgrims laid for us that the Pilgrims had so much. It influences who we are as Americans to this very day by traditions and things they started, not the least of which being Thanksgiving. And for anybody who wants to know more, definitely go to the WallBuilders website. We have lots of stuff there. But the book, The American Story, The Beginnings, we document and go into detail on this story. It is such a rich heritage and an incredible tradition that we still should be celebrating as Americans and as Christians today. 

Rick Green [00:26:08] The American Story is available at the website wallbuilders.com today. We're out of time for today. But hey, guess what? Tomorrow, good news Friday. So we're going to have lots more to be thankful for tomorrow. We'll get into some more of of the things that are happening nationally, but also just for us in our family lives right now. Great time to be thankful. So tomorrow, look for some more good news. Check it out at WallBuilders Dot show. And then, of course, visit our main website wallbuilders.com. Make that one time or monthly contribution. Great way to say thank you by the way, Abraham Lincoln said have an increased devotion to the cause. That's one of the great ways to be thankful. Thanks so much for listening to The WallBuilders Show.