Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's The Wall Builder Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I'm Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. You can learn about all three of us at wallbuilders.com it's wallbuilders.com as our main website. Lots of great information available for you there as well. Lots of good tools and different things that you can educate yourself. Get inspired to be a part of saving our nation. There's a lot of great opportunities right now. The window is cracked open. We got to shove it open this window of opportunity and dive through it. David and Tim, so many different areas of the culture that we need to be talking about. One of those is obviously entertainment because a lot of people get their values from that and sometimes it helps us to learn stories of heroes in history that we didn't know. I was actually given a tour out at the Patrick Academy campus today and had somebody that didn't know anything about Dietrich Bonhoeffer story. And so we've got this movie that's coming out this coming weekend where folks can learn about a theologian that was also involved in shock of all shocks, the politics of the day. So anyway, we'll talk a little bit more about the movie in a few minutes. But guys, we're at a really neat juncture in history and an opportunity to get people more involved. I think people are starting to realize they need to pay attention to what's going. On in the culture. 

Tim Barton [00:01:21] Yeah, Rick, it's something that I'm very excited to have this come out. We talked about it a little bit ago when we saw when the release date was going to be and thought, you know, this might be a month or two too late. It might have been really nice to show some pastors the example of someone who was so courageous, who defied a dictator, a tyrant, and ultimately similar to the founding fathers, when they pledged their lives, fortunes, sacred honors. He did. And it cost him everything he had. But he courageously, boldly stood up. And to your point about movies being so impactful, my instant thought of growing up was, you know, when I was in high school and college, there were some things, whether it be Gladiator or The Patriot or even a Braveheart, you know, there were some movies that when you saw as a young man, were just core and you're like, I want to be William Wallace, right? I, I want to be Maximus Decimus. Moretti Is that the herd? You you just saw all these guys who were like, Yes. And so to see a well-told story that gives you the example of what courage and sacrifice looks like. I think something that we have seen, unfortunately, for for now a couple of decades from so much of the the Hollywood production, but maybe even more if we start to Disney in some of the the animated shows that they highlight women as being the heroes in so many situations because the men don't lead and and therefore the woman is going to be the one to step up and do. And it's it's kind of reversed things in our culture where unfortunately we see at least we have seen in so many situations that the promoting of a more feminist man and a a more diva like woman and not that, you know, we don't want some never women we need Deborah's investors out there. But ultimately it's emasculated a lot of what God has called men to do and who's called this to be. And so, again, having an example like a bond offer, when you can see what does it look like to be a man and to be a man of faith and stand up with courage and conviction? I am very excited about this movie and I say that as already having a a prerelease screener. We got to watch. It was a very well-done movie and I'm very excited to talk about this today. 

David Barton [00:03:43] You know, the other thing interesting about stories like this is that there's often surprises that go with the heroes. And in the case of Bonhoeffer and I guess this is kind of a spoiler alert, but first part of the year, probably first quarter next year, we'll have a new book out and it deals with World War Two and dealing with World War Two. I mean, obviously Hitler is the central figure in that, particularly in the European theater. And it's interesting that Bonhoeffer Hitler came in at a time of huge, huge turmoil. Inflation was over 30%. It was just everything was through the roof. And he offered a path to stability. You know, that was this campaign. That was his talking point. He was a populist guy. And his interest in that Bonhoeffer early on was a big supporter of Hitler and was a big supporter of getting him into that position in the nation and and really wanted him to say, bring the nation back to stability. And as time goes on and Hitler turns out to have other agendas going on, Bonhoeffer has the courage to stand up and confront that. By the way, Bonhoeffer was also a veteran. He was he was a military hero. And that's one of the reasons he liked Hitler, because Hitler was a military hero in World War One, got decorated a lot. So it's a cool story to see the whole Bonhoeffer story come in. Well, one of the things I think is worth noting is, you know, you're saying that. Bonhoeffer supported Hitler, and there's no doubt he supported that campaign. And Hitler coming to power early on before Hitler changed and was somebody else. But but why it matters is he was supporting the policies that Hitler was promoting. He wasn't supporting the personality of Hitler because then when Hitler went a different direction, because he was driven by policy and by principle. When Hitler when a different direction and it violated the biblical principle, then he was courageous enough to stand up and say, I'm standing on principle. I'm standing for the right policy, not just for somebody's personality. And I think we see a little bit of that in the movie as well. Yeah, and that's a great distinction because he was not a supporter of Hitler, per se. He was a supporter of the candidate Hitler when Hitler was out campaigning and doing stuff. And then when those policies started coming in, he definitely was no longer a supporter and became a leader against that. He stood for righteousness. And that's what's really cool about him is there's a lot of backbone is willing to correct himself if he needs to, but he's just a very, very strong character, a great hero to look at. 

Rick Green [00:06:11] Yeah. And just the courage to to being willing and able to to stand when it was extremely dangerous and, you know, literally ends up dying for taking a stand. But incredible movie. Can't wait for it to come out. It's going to be out this this coming weekend. And one of the producers, John Scanlon, is going to be with us to talk about it when we come back from the break. So stay with us, folks. You're listening to The WallBuilders. 

Rick Green [00:07:39] Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders. I don't I can't exaggerate this too much. I'm telling you, best movie trailer I think I've ever seen in my life because of the song it uses and the images that are played. Vin Angel does it. Once again, John Scanlon's with us when we talk about the new movie coming out, Bahnhof for John. Thanks for coming on, man. Appreciate your time today. 

John Scanlon [00:07:57] Thank you, Rick. I'm so excited to be on. And by the way, if you loved the trailer, which is exceptional, wait till you see the movie because the movie is going to blow you away. 

Rick Green [00:08:06] I mean it, man. I haven't been this excited about a movie in a long time. I've always loved the Bonhoeffer story. I've always loved, you know, back probably 15 years ago reading Metaxas book on it and then just studying him a little bit. Yeah, even the theology side of it. But man, the spy part, the whole, you know, and then the movie Valkyrie came out and I just I don't know, maybe I'm obsessed. I don't know. But I feel like he is just such a good example for right now in this generation that we've got to stand against lies. We've got to stand against the deception, the corruption, all the things that lead to a Nazi type regime. And he just he's a great story. So so back up, man. How did you get involved with this particular project? I know you've been involved in a lot of movie projects and everything. You're actually a tech guy, investor guy. You do all these things and yet you dabble in movies. So I think you got you lead a cool life. 

John Scanlon [00:08:55] Thank you. Well, I work in about 50 movie and television projects, so yeah, I dabble hard. I dabble hard. What I wanted to say was. Yeah. So going back to when this project originally kicked off, which was 12 years ago, believe it or not. We started looking into doing a film about Bonhoeffer, and he is such an amazing example of a man who rises to the challenges of his times because of his deep faith and his unwavering commitment to his principles, but whose message is also timeless and really resonates with audiences in every generation. You know, and especially, I think, in this current moment, as you say, there's there's there's a real draw to his message and a real draw to his example that that you can't miss reading today's headlines. Yeah, I was involved from the very beginning and we went on this amazing journey of exploring different ways of telling his story with different storytellers. And we're blessed enough in the end to wind up with Todd Komarnicki, who's an incredibly gifted storyteller. If you've seen Sulley or else, yeah, you've seen some of his work. He's just a truly gifted dramatist. 

Rick Green [00:10:09] And half the gifts I send to my family are from Elf, of course. Yes. Yeah. 

John Scanlon [00:10:13] Yeah, exactly. Wow. So Todd's does incredibly gifted writer and an amazingly gifted director. And we have. I wish I could. I wish I had time to tell you every. Creative genius that's involved in this film, because with this film is next level. This film is Oscar worthy. It is a it is an incredible artistic achievement. We have Todd Carney directing. We have John Matheson, who was the cinematographer on Gladiator and on Gladiator two. In fact, he left our set to go to work on Gladiator two. Just wow, Honor said in the morning when we wrapped and and on the gladiator set, you know, later that day so and I could go on and on. John Beard is our set designer. Everything from the costuming and of course the blazing performance by John as Dassler is as superstar German actor, very young, 27 years old, but just unbelievably good at portraying sort of all the different facets of who Bonhoeffer was, his vulnerability, but also his strength, his joy, his grief. You will you'll be mesmerized. We have unbelievable supporting cast of August Diehl, who's in it. You know, a very well-known German actors acted in many films called Quentin Tarantino films. You have Flula Borg, who's a comic genius and also turns out to be a and a very gifted, dramatic actor. And on and on and on. All these amazing actors bringing their, you know, the at the top of their game in this incredible film. And there there's so many moments that will give you goosebumps or move you and inspire you. 

Rick Green [00:11:51] You mentioned he's he's only 27 years old. You know, I think part of what I didn't realize about Bonhoeffer until just a year or so ago was that he was only 26 when he gives that famous speech in 33, I guess it was 1933. And. Right. You know, people think you've got to be older to have courage or you got to be older to to speak truth are to stand up. So that's another part of the story I love because I work with you so much, is being able to show it to them and inspire them to know, hey, you know, you could be in your teens, you can be in your 20s and the voice, you know, that that speaks to the culture or speaks to your neighborhood or, you know, whatever it is, God's given us all a voice. And too often we're silenced by thinking, you know, I don't have everything it takes to stand up or I don't have the experience or whatever. So I love that part of this story. Now, speaking of silence, wasn't I, I, I don't know if I should admit this on air admitted to did you write before we went on air but disturbed and the sound of silence. I have it on my favorites list so when that music this trailer. Okay listen everybody listening right now you have to go watch the trailer. So we're going to have links. Make it easy for you to get there. Watch the trailer. I really think, John, you guys put together the best trailer for any movie I've seen. I haven't watched the movie yet, so I can't tell you yet how great the movie is, but that trailer is unbelievable. And the music, it just pulls you in. Well, I love the Way Disturb did the song years ago, and so I think it captures the essence of what you're trying to do with the entire movie. So even if somebody only watches the trailer, I think they're going to be inspired and they're going to want to learn more and they're going to want to study. Bonhoeffer. Tell us when the movie's coming out and and is it will we get to see it in theaters as well? 

John Scanlon [00:13:28] Absolutely. Yeah. It's opening wide nationwide and Friday, November 22nd, the weekend before Thanksgiving. That's your official opening day. But in some markets, it's showing early on Thursday, November 21st. And if you're if you're a fan, if you have any interest at all in seeing this movie, please see it that weekend. Yeah. See that Thursday or Friday or Saturday. Those that's the critical window for our film to be a success. So we need you to turn out for that. And if you want to buy tickets at a discount, there's a preorder campaign going on on the Angel website. Let's go to angel.com, look for the Bonhoeffer film and look for an opportunity to buy tickets at a discount at your local theater. You can buy, you know, the time slot of your preference, matinee, evening, whatever you want on the Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday of that opening weekend. And you'll find you know. 

Rick Green [00:14:15] That's that's the year like you said I mean because that'll determine how many theaters have it the next week in the week after, you know and it creates that momentum. And this one needs the momentum, especially going into the into the Christmas season, Thanksgiving, Christmas, all of that. So this is, you know, of course, financial does everything first class. I love those guys. I love how they have just turned the industry upside down in a good way. Yeah, complete market disruptors. And I just in a great, great way. John, what what do you hope people walk away when they're leaving the theater? What are you hoping they're going to leave with? Because I think people tend to go to a movie and they walk away with a value or whatever, you know? Yes, that emotion, the music. What do you hope they leave with? 

John Scanlon [00:14:56] Yes. So I know they're going to leave entertained. And I mean that in the best way. Moved, inspired, you know emotional at the closing even sitting through the end credits is a moving experience. But I think what you're going to walk away with is a desire to be the best version of yourself, to really live up to your ideal spot offers this this unwavering, you know, long direction in the same obedience from youth in his stand. For the oppressed and against evil. And I think that is something that they will all carry out of the theater as a as a lingering message from the film. We have a campaign associated with a film called Bonhoeffer Brave. And we want people to be bonafide brave in their own lives, doesn't it? You don't have to take on a Nazi regime or stand up against a dictator. But there are there are countless ways that we're called on to be brave in our daily life and and and over the long term. And Bonhoeffer, I think this movie will give you the courage and inspire you to do that and maybe even suggest some ways you can do that. I love. 

Rick Green [00:16:01] That man. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's one of the diseases of the culture, right, is that we don't have courage and Yes. Are, you know, so maybe this will infuse some courage and infuse people and give them ideas on how to be brave. That's beautiful. 

John Scanlon [00:16:15] Yeah. Yeah, I would love that. And you know, another aspect, this film that I think is is is really important is that, you know, we're trying to market marketed to a as diverse an audience as possible because we have people on especially now you know we're all sort of hyper aware of the partizan divides in our country and the way divisions are created and sort of artificially maintained in order to stoke turnout and engagement. And this movie, Urban offers is for all people. And we want people from every part of the political spectrum, every, you know, cultural and social persuasion to see this film. Because I think a little bit like the gospel, which is presented very clearly in this film, it has the ability to really change people just through experiencing it, just hearing the message. So I'm hoping for turnout from everybody. I want people from the left, the right, the center, not affiliated. You know, we want everybody to come and make Bonhoeffer their own in that way. 

Rick Green [00:17:15] Yeah. You know, one of the beauties of doing a story like this is that you, you know, you kind of get in the time machine and you get out of this current, you know, like you said, divide that we're in with all the labels that we have today. And by getting in the time machine and going back to 30s, Germany, you've got different labels, different machines, so people can be a little bit more objective in seeing good versus evil and seeing right versus wrong without the boxes, right, without the labels. And so then we can learn the principles of the right and wrong, you know, and free speech and life and all of those things, and then come forward and go, okay, now how do I live these principles out, you know, regardless of of the label? So that's I hadn't thought about that. But that that is going to be timing could not be more perfect. Lord is of course his timing is always perfect. But this is I didn't even think about that aspect of this. Yeah. 

John Scanlon [00:18:05] Yeah, you're absolutely right. And it is. You know, 12 years ago, we couldn't have imagined that we were going to be releasing this film in this window. But as you say, God's timing is perfect. And we're we're feeling that and we're feeling the excitement and enthusiasm for the film building, watching it online. It's an awesome thing. People are waking up to it. 

Rick Green [00:18:24] Yeah. Well, before I let you go, so I think another thing about bon Hoffer that I didn't I guess maybe I just forgot from the first time I read a story is, you know, it's a longer saga then. Then I initially kind of in my brain, I thought, okay, he gives a speech. Hitler arrested him. He gets killed, you know? No, this goes on for, what, ten years, I guess, before he is finally imprisoned by Hitler. And roughly, course, at the very end of the war. I mean, this is a long, protracted fight. And he gives up. I mean, so much to to do this. I mean even romance in his in is I mean, all the things that we enjoy in life. He puts it all on the altar, man. 

John Scanlon [00:19:01] Yes. Yes. And and even though he faces defeat and reversal in many ways, the inspiration that he receives at the beginning of his journey, particularly with his time in Harlem, which is a really an underappreciated aspect of his life. A lot of people have read Cost of Discipleship or Life Together. Two famous Bonhoeffer works or who studies life may not realize that his faith really came alive in some ways in Harlem. When he was at Union Theological Seminary in New York studying, he had a friend, Frank Fisher, who took him to Abyssinian Baptist Church, where Adam Clayton Powell senior was the was the pastor. And they were on the front lines of the civil rights struggle of that era. And Bonhoeffer saw that I was deeply moved by the engagement of this church because of their faith to participate in this struggle for human rights. And he took that back with him to Germany. And even though later he had opportunities to escape back to America and avoid the war and and survive, he didn't take them because he was totally committed to his struggle and totally committed to to living out his faith as he saw he needed to do in Germany, opposing titanic forces that that, you know, that many faced, many surrendered. Too many ran away from Bonhoeffer didn't do any of that. He was the ultimate personification of Bonhoeffer brave. And I can't I can't imagine the story, that story being told better on screen than it is in this film. It's just beautiful. 

Rick Green [00:20:33] Yeah, that's that's going to be a cool part of this. Instead of him being reduced to a quote here or there. Yeah. We're going to get to get get to hear the, you know, get the whole story. And, you know, like I was saying, the young people I work with the Patriot Academy, you know, we're going to I'm going to take them all to see it on opening weekend. And we're going to we're going to hopefully fill a theater and then and really get that get the word out. We got about 30,000 constitution coaches across the country. We want to push it with them. In fact, I'd love to get you on one of our coaches corner to tell them about it so they can build up to it so that we can actually do. You know, John, this is so important. You know, a friend of mine years ago said, you know, the movie makers and producers are the high price of our culture today. They really determine the, you know, the values of the nation. And we we left we gave that over to people that didn't, you know, frankly, have biblical values at heart and done such a great job. And so appreciate you making this a as you said, this a decade long effort, man, You got to you got to feel like you're about to give birth. I bet. But this is this is exciting. And we're wallbuilders. We're thrilled to be a part of it. And just just thank you. I really appreciate all the hard work you put into this, and I cannot wait to see the movie. 

John Scanlon [00:21:40] Thank you. You know, I just from from taking a long perspective, people are inspired by the gospel and my stories of of of believers of created some of the great art of the world and the, you know, the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, the statue of David. I mean, you think about the cathedrals that have been built, the beautiful monuments that have been created, the highlights of Western art are all you know, all have those themes. And I think this film is taking a giant step toward establishing that sort of act of beauty and defiance in cinema. I don't think there's been a film like this before, and if you support, if you support that sort of movement in the arts, then please, please see the film opening weekend. You are regretted and in fact you're going to want to take all your friends the next weekend. 

Rick Green [00:22:27] That's a great way to close it, man, because it is. It's the greatest story ever told, right? So when you when you're able to the gospel inspires the best art possible. And we put the gospel in this box over here and said, stay out of art and science and politics, all this stuff. And now it's like we lost the beauty of the of the gospel, literally bringing those things to life in a in a beautiful way. So you guys are bringing that back. John God bless you, man. Website Best website for people to keep up with the release, look up theaters, all of those things. Give us that one more time. 

John Scanlon [00:22:55] You have got to angel.com. Look for the bonus for tab under under upcoming releases and you'll see all the information there. You can buy tickets there, you can plan your theater, visit, pick your seat and all that good stuff. 

Rick Green [00:23:07] All right. Angel.com. John Scanlon, God bless you and thanks for coming on. 

John Scanlon [00:23:11] Thank you so much. 

Rick Green [00:23:12] Take care. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton

Rick Green [00:24:23] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us, John Scanlon, for coming on and telling us about the movie and encouraging everybody out there to go see this movie this weekend. And this we were talking about. You know, that's the best time to go see it in the theaters because it helps to keep those those leaders rolling it over and for additional theaters to be added. So, you know, part of that support, guys that we're always talking about, supporting people that are making a difference in the culture. Well, one of the ways we support is not only with our voice, but with our dollars. So go see the movie this weekend. 

Tim Barton [00:24:51] No doubt. And one of the things that is funny now, having heard the interview, I did not think about leading into the interview when I was talking about early on the impact of movies and at some of the heroes in Gladiator was a movie very impactful for me when I was in college challenging me be a man, commitment, courage, sacrifice. And to hear that the cinematographer from Gladiator one and two is the guy who really opened. I mean, absolutely incredible. And as he pointed out, when you look at the storyteller, they have Todd, the director, the writer who was a part of Sully and Elf, I mean, some really noted movies, an incredibly talented cast. This is yet again, another one of the movies, whether it be like an Average Joe or Sound of Hope. And in so many movies now that are coming out that are done so, so well that you're not compromising on quality to go see one of these really good value Christian movies. This is one that is told and done very well. And as you mentioned, 12 years in the making, they've been working on this project a long time. We definitely would encourage you to support it. Go see it opening weekend so that we can continue to send that message to Hollywood of the values that we like and support and where we will spend our dollars. 

Rick Green [00:26:08] I just one of many ways that you can support a good culture. Remember, we we often talk about what William Wilberforce said we got to make being good fashionable again. We got to make being courageous, fashionable again. These types of movies will have the same impact on this next generation like what Tim was talking about, the gladiator hat on him and on me and so many others. It really does have an impact on how we think. And and even when we're put into tough situations, we think back to those powerful movie moments and it helps to give us the courage to do the right thing at the right time. So get your family out to see this as well. It's in movie theaters this weekend. Thanks so much for listening to The WallBuilders.