Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. Is the WallBuilders Show taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. And it's Veteran's Day. What a great opportunity to thank someone in your life. And for all of our listeners out there that served in our armed forces. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the freedom that we get to enjoy. We know that it's not free and we know that your family sacrifice as well. So not only do we want to thank the veterans today, we want to thank the family members of our veterans as well. And hey, a great way to say thanks to the veteran in your life. Singled out to the military Veterans Patriot Academy Leadership Congress next summer. Check that out. A page four academy.com is a great way for our vets to find that next mission. What can they do next to help save our country? All right. It's been a week since the election. Well, yeah, almost a week since the election and all last week. That's all we talked about was the elections that we're going to veer into a little bit different direction today. The big guys, we're going to be talking sports. Rick Greene here with David and Tim Barton. And of course, as we always say, you know, listen, we need to be making disciples and business politics, athletics, media, you name it, every single area. I think this one going to be pretty cool because we're all three pretty, pretty big sports fan. So I love the idea of evangelizing athletes and serving them in a spiritual way. 

Tim Barton [00:01:18] And it's such a good setup. One of the things that especially now that we're in the week after the election, we're catching our breath a little bit. Somebody asked me at church yesterday how I was doing. I said, you know, I feel like I finally and I'm sleeping a little bit right. I'm finally catching up. My body's decompressing a little bit from all the travel and craziness. But one of the things I was talking with some people at church about yesterday is one of the big takeaways for us as we look at kind of the way forward is we need some Jesus back in America, right? I mean, we really need God in the Bible back in America. And one of the things that we had made allusion to leading into the election there, there was a sermon we shared from Josh Howard to him. And one of the things that he drew several connections to is in every area where we are not making disciples, the world is happy, too, right? If we're not going to as as fathers and husbands, all of us on the show, if we're not going to lead our family, that I was happy to write if if looking in the church, if we're not going to lead in the church, the devil is happy to Every area we don't navigate, we don't disciple and we don't steward. The devil is happy to take over. And one of the things that we have seen for far too long is that some of the biggest voices, the most recognized names in America and arguably in the world have these incredible platforms. And and sometimes they will be people of faith. But it really I would say up until and now I'm going to acknowledge my ignorance going back further. But I don't feel like in the 80s and 90s there were as many vocal athletes about faith. Maybe, maybe a David Robinson, maybe a I mean Avery Johnson a little bit better. Sean Elliott I guess. I mean, really, maybe a lot of the Spurs from back in that era were, but I don't recall a lot of really faith driven individuals until maybe like it's Tim Tebow. He was the one that had big notoriety, really outspoken in faith. And now you're seeing more and more athletes. And I think maybe it's part of the negative stereotype has been wiped away a little bit or maybe athletes are a little more courageous and recognize we need a little bit more. But what is really unique is that just like we're trying to help encourage and disciple people from a constitutional, a biblical historic perspective, the fact that there are groups out there reaching out to athletes, recognizing that these are souls that need Jesus, but also that with a platform like they have, it's another incredible way for them to be able to share Jesus and maybe even be trained and taught and encouraged in that boldness. So it really is neat to see that there are organizations and groups out there working to reach professional athletes, first of all, to share the love of Jesus with them, but then secondly, to encourage them to share the love of Jesus with all of those in their influence. 

David Barton [00:04:15] You know, interesting you say that, Jim, because I was thinking the same thing and I was thinking how that an earlier culture, like in the founding era, just about everywhere you turned in the culture was God consciousness. So if you were in Massachusetts, you're going to hear Governor John Hancock talking about God and God conscious. And if you go to any of the universities, Massachusetts, you're going to hear about God. And and it's just everywhere you turn, you're going to hear that. And the whole idea of being God conscious is so helpful. There's a great passage. Romans One where it talks about how that when your God conscious, it changes your behavior. And so for America to become more God conscious by people in the culture, talking about God, talking about Christ and athletes is one of them. I think all three of us probably this past weekend watched some type of athletic event going on. I know. I certainly did. I watched football games and other things are happening, both college and pro. Thoughts. And, you know, being from Texas, I didn't grow up being a fan much. The East Coast teams, as a matter of fact, as a as kind of a Cowboys fan, we looked the East Coast, Philly and Washington and guys like that is that that's not the good guys. But now I'm really kind of a fan of the Baltimore Ravens because I just saw the videos of that before every single game. They all say the Lord's Prayer together. Their coach has done such a great job with that. I was looking at some of the other teams and, you know, now I'm kind of look at Atlanta because Kirk Cousins is a quarterback. I had no idea Kirk Cousins had such a strong faith. But then just a couple weeks ago, I got to speak in his dad's church and I had no idea his dad was a passion and he grew up as a pastor's kid. And so just a lot of these guys, I've now got kind of like a semi affinity for him. I'm pulling for him. I think it's great what they're doing and it's just because I was I was not consciously aware of who they were as individuals and people and people of faith. And so I think the whole outreach into the professional community is so big and so good at mainstream. So we are, you know, all all the effort to try to make us look like radicals and and weigh out people that they were even trying to do before the election. You start seeing all these mainstream athletes and mainstream others that expressed faith and then suddenly it just really kind of collapses and never the left. So I love this interview today. I love the whole concept of them reaching people who are such a face and a voice and can have such influence, whether they recognize you or not. And I know they're not doing it just to have that influence. They're doing it to make sure every one of these athletes have a strong relationship with Christ. But it's still such a good ministry. 

Rick Green [00:06:47] It does have such an impact, especially on the kids. I mean, guys, I want to show my age here, but I still remember as a little kid reading, they were kind of like little comic books, but it was about Tom Landry and Roger Staubach being Christians and sharing the gospel. And, you know, if you're a Cowboys fan growing up and those guys are telling you about Jesus, you pay attention, you listen. Or if you're already a Christian, you're like, Hey, man, those guys are with me. And it it just bolsters your your faith and your and your boldness. So there's no doubt about it. And then I ended my Major League Baseball boycott from all of the crazy BLM stuff, mainly because my kids kept pointing out all these young Texas Rangers are Christ followers and they keep talking about Jesus. So Dad, you got to reward them by going back and watching baseball again, which we did. And it was kind of cool to see the Jesus win Church after they won the World Series last year. All right. Quick break. We will be right back. Our guest is Steve Stenstrom, his organization scholar, professional athlete outreach. And this is exactly what he does. He helps these athletes, you know, basically serves them and ministers to them, but also kind of coaches them along as a former professional quarterback himself. And it's it's going to be pretty cool. Looking forward to it. Steve will be with us when we come back. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show

Rick Green [00:08:56] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show Thanks for staying with us today. Got Steve Stenstrom with us. Steve, thanks so much for coming on. And tell us a little bit about pro athletes outreach. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:09:04] Yeah. Thanks for appreciate it. Pro athletes outreach has been around since 1971. And the way back in those days, the founders of the ministry decided it was it would be great to gather pros and couples across the League of Football to start with. And we added baseball and other many other sports along the way. In the mission statement state consistent that we exist to unite a community of pros and couples to do two things. Number one, grow as disciples of Jesus. And number two, positively impact our spheres of in thought. So that's what we do. And thanks. Thankfully now today we it's a global footprint as well. And so I'm going to be learning more about sports like cricket and other things. I don't even know what to say at this point, but I'm going to learn. 

Rick Green [00:09:46] Yeah, good thing. The good thing, the challenges in life. Cut. Cut across every sport, right? So you can't talk. Talk their language. As far as what happens on the field, you can talk their language on what happens off the field. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:09:58] So that's exactly right. 

Rick Green [00:10:00] You know, part of what we talk about a lot here at WallBuilders is just how a biblical perspective, you know, God's ways not only right, it works best. And so whether you're an athlete or musician or politician or, you know, whatever God's called you to whatever field of interest you're in. Having a biblical perspective changes everything. And so I would think, man, you're dealing with with guys at the peak of of their career where on the outside everything looks great and everything's, you know, they're making more money than ever and they're famous and all of that. But with that comes a lot of challenges. And to be able to bring in the grounding of a biblical perspective, what a blessing. I bet it's a pretty rewarding role you get to play. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:10:39] There really is. I mean, I don't know if we can go back to Paul's words to in Romans 12, often enough to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. How do we all think rightly about the context in which God has sovereignly placed us in the opportunities He gives us? And and for pro and elite athletes and couples to think biblically about their offered the opportunity God's given them and the and also to understand the unique challenges to a life of faith in that context. That's what that's what our ministry does and we enjoy doing that whenever we get a chance to. 

Rick Green [00:11:10] You know, there's I mean, athletes get get a lot of praise. Sometimes it's unwarranted. They also get a lot of criticism. Sometimes it's warranted or unwarranted. But, you know, we we love highlighting stories where athletes proclaim their faith in they and they set a good example and this this last year or so. Harrison But your boy he took a lot of heat but also a lot of praise for his speech. How much do you run into athletes that are how do you say this? I guess they just they're bold about their faith and they care more about that than they do their reputation or, you know, even potentially losing a gig. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:11:47] Yeah, I think it's pretty a pretty broad base of of the men and women that we serve across pro sports who recognize that that culture, the opportunities, speaking the culture and the through the lens of sport and the intersection of faith and sport is, is real. And so there's a lot of great examples of them. There's a lot that you don't hear from, but they're having conversations within their spheres of influence, within their families, communities, their their schools, their churches, whatnot. And I think ultimately, are we informed by a biblical worldview or are we being disciple by something else? And that's what ultimately gives us context to speak confidently that we're representing God in the context where he has us. 

Rick Green [00:12:28] How how much access do you get? Like, does it do the leagues, not just football, but you know, all the different areas you're in? Do they welcome it? Like, do they in other words, do they get the fact that their athlete is going to be served? Well, if they have, you know, some level of spiritual perspective, it's going to balance out some things, maybe not have as many highs and lows or whatever. I don't know that my question makes sense or not, but do do the do the leagues, the team owners, that kind of stuff, do they see the value in? And, you know, Zig Ziglar always talked about the seven areas of our life and and making sure that you're paying attention to each of those areas. Do they see the value of not leaving out the spiritual part of of an athlete's life? 

Steve Stenstrom [00:13:07] I think it varies across the board, like you could imagine. And I think you can also look deeper into the the pro sports teams themselves, knowing that that certain owners and certain of our leadership folks there are people of faith themselves. And so they recognize the value of it. And in some places they don't and they don't share the worldview that we're talking about. Nevertheless, at our ministry, we have if we had a bumper sticker with, say, pro to pro, we actually are all of our leadership are former pro athletes themselves. And so we understand the context and the culture and almost like an indigenous people group model where we know the language and we speak to one another and we actually we don't wait for the invitations necessarily. The pros themselves are inviting it and then they go and be the ambassadors for Christ in their locker room, on their teams. 

Rick Green [00:13:50] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes that makes total sense. Olympics this summer, man. There were a couple of athletes that really spoke out, got a lot of a lot of press. And honestly, I mean, look, I train and communicate. I train young people, candidates all going to stuff in communication. Usually athletes are not the best communicators, but these Olympians, I mean, there were some of them that just almost every press conference, it was like a masterclass. It was I was impressed. I don't know. Did you kind of feel the same way? Some of them was like, Yeah, thank you, Lord, that that person just shined for you Really? Well. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:14:21] Yes. It was inspiring to watch. And I too. I share your your sentiments on how impressive some of the comments were. They weren't just the the casual one off one. And yeah, I want to thank you. 

Rick Green [00:14:33] Yeah. Throw in a bone. Right. It was I was literally like there was some deep sea out there in the sea. Yeah. Yeah. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:14:39] Yes. And I think we were it within our ministry. We point to John 330 a lot, you know, which is easy for us to memorize, but it's a lot harder one to actually embrace and and live out of. He must increase but I must decrease in John the Baptist is a great model for anybody. At the height of celebrity and popularity, he was the he was the mega pastor of his day, so to speak. And he understood that his role was clear and how it related to who Jesus is was very important to. And so to say I'm it's it's my joy to point people to him. And I think we saw that athletes at the Olympics doing that. We're seeing lots more athletes across the board do it. And that's what our ministry spent. We spent a lot of time helping them discover who Jesus is so they adequately understand their identity in Christ. 

Rick Green [00:15:23] Well, I guess John the Baptist, the right guy. I mean, you got to be a good athlete to live off bugs and and and survive. That's right. So. Well, tell me about the when they do that, like when you hear from or you watch how people respond to their heroes and the athletes. Is it important we talk around here a lot about God consciousness or acknowledgments of God in the culture and how important it is? You know, even little things like getting in God We Trust. The national motto displayed places just so that you get these reminders that there is a creator and that you know that that that's where our faith is and all of those things. Seems to me that's a big part of the role when they do speak out publicly, not just privately, which I know that's a hope. That's a big part of the ministry, is just to to minister to these guys within the, you know, in their personal lives when they do speak out. But it seems like it helps culturally to get back to that God consciousness. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:16:19] Yeah. I mean, when you asked that I to two things come to mind for me and that's identity. The other one's mission. I think we often talk about understanding the difference between an achieved identity or having a received identity. And I think this is this is true for anybody and in American culture, but the American dream being the thing that drives most people forward, you can oftentimes forget that ultimately in Christ it's a 100% received identity. It's all based on upon what Jesus did on our behalf. And then we respond to that with the things that we then go and do. But for pro athletes, they're at the height of that, the top of that ladder. They're in an environment that is entirely performance based. And so therefore there's this element of like, I'm going to achieve something and that's dangerous when we get into the realm of faith because we think we can do things to earn God's favor and merits God's favor instead of just receiving it and then living in light of it. And a second part is when it gets to the mission, because easily we can easily forget what the actual mission is that Jesus started. We get sidetracked with submissions and side missions, and we're seeing that that divisiveness all across our country because in many ways we've forgotten as believers what the main mission is. And so I think that's the beauty of working with athletes. They get mission, they get they get unity. A team comes together. The most unified place every Sunday, I would say is an NFL locker room because they are coming together with one shared mission and when they take that field. 

Rick Green [00:17:42] You had a you had a great article in Christian Post and you pointed out, I don't remember how you said it, but it was you know, we all tend to pray for him in the middle of the game because we want our team to win. Right. But your point was, okay, how about praying for them throughout the week and realizing that they got a lot of pressure on them and that they're in a position with a platform that God can really use and we need to be praying for them to be strong and and to shine well, for him. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:18:04] Absolutely. I mean, I think the underlying point in all of it. Right, is that if we're going to be people that love God and honor God in prayer has to be foundational in our lives. And it's not just an afterthought that we do, but when we watch those games, which more people are going to watch NFL games than anything else over the next several months here, and they're going to be the most watched forms of entertainment. And to look at the pros out there is more than just a commodity or more than just a product. But to actually recognize that they're that they're man that represent families. There's marriages and kids and extended circumstances, and they're dealing with other elements of life, too. They've got family members that are dealing with illnesses. They've got injuries that they're going to sustain their careers or their seasons and or careers might come to an end. They might get cut in the middle of it. There's all sorts of things. Certainly there's a lot of glamorous, wonderful things. And we we do cheer for our teams to win an anchor, to go it, pray for your team to win like the other team. But the fans are praying for the other team, too. So we'll see how God works set out in the end in terms of who's holding the Lombardi Trophy, but nevertheless recognize that these these men and the families they represent are bigger than what you see them doing on the field. 

Rick Green [00:19:16] Yeah. Yeah. Hey, man, one of the thing I was curious about is I'm assuming you guys still minister them after their career. You know, they're fairly young in life, right? When that that part of their life is over and finding that Nick is a little bit like military, right? They come home and it's a very different next mission. And so I'm assuming there's a big ministry for you guys in terms of just helping them through that transition of finding what's God got next for them. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:19:39] You know, Rick, that's a great question. You're absolutely right. I mean, I tell people all the time when when my wife and I finished our NFL years, we were we were 29 years old. We're about to say, like, what? What are we doing transitioning or yeah, house timing or whatever you want to call the phrase. And it's a massive identity crisis that unfolds. And so there's a lot of room for ministry to happen at those in that moment. For our men and women who are transitioning out of the game because there's so much life in front and we really get exposed to God's call, God's plan, God's design, God's script are much bigger than however many years we spend in the game. Doing that game, we actually get to participate for the over the course of a lifetime. And as Moses said and Psalm 90, Lord teach me to number my days are right that I might gain a heart of wisdom for every day that I get until that day when I stand before him. And so we really want to help our our pros see beyond the game and both in terms of chronologically beyond, but also just beyond in terms of mission and purpose. 

Rick Green [00:20:39] Well, personal question is, is it harder to do that when you come from, you know, an evil team like the Bears or the 40 Niners instead of God's favorite team, the Cowboys? I mean, is there is it is it more to overcome for you? You know, those situations. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:20:50] We all have our burdens to carry, right? So but having grown up in Plano, I'll claim the Cowboys a little bit. But nevertheless, yeah, I mean, it's it's a good question. We all have to strive to to overcome the challenges we face. 

Rick Green [00:21:05] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I love the, you know, finding that next mission thing because, I mean, we all face that career changes or whatever, but for those, you know, for, for guys like you that are, you're coming off of such a high in such a everybody's watching you I mean all of that pressure you know and then okay now what what do I do to get that same level of fulfillment? And if it is in the work itself and not in the Lord and just being available to him, I could see where they'd be a very difficult transition. Whereas if you're just saying, okay, God, what's the next mission you have for me? Totally different ballgame, right? Pun intended. I didn't mean that, but it came out that way, you know? 

Steve Stenstrom [00:21:38] Well, it absolutely is. And I mean, if you if you look at even like someone 39 is talked about all the time. Right. Like you, you formed me. You net me together and my mother's a leader in that same song, David says. And and before I even lived even one day, you formed every one of my days for me. Every one of them were written right. And so if we can start to think about that, that's, that's that's the size of the God, that's the magnitude of a God that we serve. Well, he's got a perspective on our lives that he's not concerned about. When my playing days were over or when I transition or when something happens, we can always be forward looking. 

Rick Green [00:22:14] I love that man. I'm still in that because that is that's even in like the political realm, you know, people tend to think of form me for this purpose, like this peak moment, and that's what I was born for in the way you just said that if for every one of of my days that is so that a priest brother all right preaching it I love. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:22:30] Me I've got the standard copyright policy which is if you're going to copy a disk, copy it. Right. So I love it. 

Rick Green [00:22:37] Well, that's better than what Zig told me. You know, the first time I'm going to say my good friend Steve told me. And then the second time it'll be I have a friend who says. And the third time it's going to be I've always said so anyway. Hey man, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for watching. pao.org. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:22:54] You got it. I did point people there to certainly learn more about what we're doing. A pro athletes outreach. I'd love to invite them to pray for us and then I also point people to sportsspectrum.com. It is it's the outward facing media platform. But we tell a lot of these great stories of pros and others who are doing amazing stuff at the intersection of faith and sport. 

Rick Green [00:23:13] Sportsspectrum.com. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:23:15] Yes sir. 

Rick Green [00:23:16] Okay sports spectrum.com We'll put that one on our website today, too. Steve God bless you man. Keep up the great work. 

Steve Stenstrom [00:23:21] Thanks, Rick. Press on. 

Rick Green [00:23:22] Hey, man, Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David in Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:24:33] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Steve Stenstrom for joining us. Pretty cool guy. So it sounds like there's a lot of those athletes, they're not all as outspoken and and and bold yet. But, you know, there's a lot to just ministering to them behind the scenes because it it's different when you're you know on the news all the time you're playing a sport like that. 

Tim Barton [00:24:51] It is really cool. And obviously, we know being able to interact with people and sometimes very noted individuals from the political scene or conservative circles and sometimes even athletes. We know they're just real people. And and they have real challenges, just like many of us do now. For some people, we might look and be like, how can they have challenges when they're making tens of millions of dollars? But the reality is that at times they'll deal with things in their family and their spouse and their kids. And and so they go through stuff, too. And the fact there's people there to help them in these moments to know how do we navigate this is part of what faith is about, right? This is part of of the message of the cross and the gospel and who God is. And and we find hope and redemption and restoration really cool. Now, we could first of all point out this is Steve's group that he's part of. They are not political at all. And it could be a challenge because sometimes some of the issues we see a culture that people are saying, hey, these are, you know, political issues, not faith issues anymore. I sometimes wonder if we could find a way to maybe just disciple people better so that we don't have some these professional athletes taking some really silly, non biblical positions at times, especially the ones that profess to be faith and, you know, speak it like the Democratic National Convention. But I digress. The point is, it is great news that there are organizations out there helping share the gospel in some of these situations with these individuals who, just like every one of us, are broken individuals who need a savior. And we're so grateful for Steve, his organization for what they do. 

Rick Green [00:26:20] Great stuff, guys. We'll get back to the election a little later in the week. We'll talk more about that, I'm sure, with some of our other guests. And and, of course, we're looking forward to a fantastic weekend. Everybody at home pray for the Pro-family legislators conference. We get a lot of these state reps, the senators coming to Dallas to sharpen each other's countenance and hear from some great speakers and be ready for their legislative session coming up in January. So please pray for WallBuilders and all those legislators. Thanks so much for listening. You've been listening to The WallBuilders Show.