Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's The WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Today, of course, Election Day. So nothing more hot than that topic for today. And of course, from a biblical perspective, we all have a duty and responsibility to occupy until he returns to be good stewards of what he's given us. From a constitutional perspective, we are in charge of our government and from a historical perspective, when Christians engage and we're salt and light, the people rejoice. When we don't woof, the people groan. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution co-chair with David and Tim Barton. Lot of groaning over the last three and a half, four years, guys. And potentially we could have some rejoicing after today. Potentially we could have a lot of unknowns after today and potentially we could have a lot of groaning. So what's it going to be, Gentlemen, we got just a few hours left today. 

David Barton [00:00:57] Yeah. I don't know, man. That's a good question. It's it's a really mixed bag because I've got a gut feel that my brain says, Yeah, but you can't go there yet. So I don't know whether to go with my brain or my gut on this thing. But I've got a split. Split one on this one. I think I think Trump will win this thing and I don't think it'll be close. So if we do this tomorrow, we may find that I was totally wrong. Or we may find out tomorrow that we're not going to know for another two weeks. So I don't have a clue where it's going. You know, with Arizona threatening that it could be from 10 to 13 days before they know their results. Who knows what's going to happen? But we did see that a judge stepped in yesterday and even a late date told our that you can you can challenge non-citizen voters. So there's still a lot of legal stuff going on. Right. You know, right on elections is crazy. 

Tim Barton [00:01:50] Well, I think that's going to be true. Also, when you look at Georgia, we look at Pennsylvania, Michigan, especially in some of these very strong Democrat cities and Democrat areas. I think there's levels of irony that it seems like the only states that aren't sure they're going to know tonight who the winner is are some of those quote unquote, battleground states. And yet it seems a little ironic. One of the things that we're encouraging everybody to do is pray, of course, is something we've been encouraging people to do for a long time leading into this election, make sure we are praying for what happens. But but especially now, we need to be praying that that that truth and integrity and honesty prevails, that the people that are trying to do dishonest things are exposed, that people who are trying to cheat are exposed, they are stopped, they are caught. And ultimately, that this will be a fair election process, because it's one thing to just feel like we just got beat in the election. It's something entirely different to feel like or maybe not even feel like maybe the reality that there is dishonesty that led to a different outcome than then what should have been. And so the fact that in some of these swing states, they're saying there's just no way we can know on election night. It makes you question the integrity of the process. And of course, at the end of the day, we don't want to question the integrity. If Donald Trump loses, we want to be because he didn't get the majority of the votes, not because they were fabricating our votes or there was removing, you know, in some of these states where they've firebomb some of these mail drop locations, these bootloader applications, obviously some stuff going on. So there's there's a lot of reasons as Christians, we should be praying now. And maybe even if you've not done a prayer, in fact, this would be a good time even to consider fasting, whatever that looks like for you to show the sincerity. We go back historically, one of the very common things in early America, then from every founding father that became a governor and these early colonies, early states, they would have days of prayer, fasting where they were really crying out and asking God to intervene, to enter as they're interceding for what's going on in their nation, in their colony, in their state. This is something that would definitely be worth doing in America. But to add to your point, a lot of the polling we're seeing on the ground, this is record turnout, early voting leading up to now to Election Day. And even some of the turnout we're seeing on Election Day certainly gives an indication that it looks like it should be beneficial for President Trump. We also know and guys, we've been talking about this a lot with some of the Georgia bar in a poll. The reality that so many Christians have identified, they they're planning on sitting this out. If you are listening right now, if you are one of those people of faith that have chosen to sit this election out, we would implore you, please do not sit this out. Stand up for the right kind, the biblical values. And even though both candidates absolutely are flawed, that we're always voting for the lesser of two evils. The reality is that the two policies of the two different candidates, the two platforms of the two different parties and the regimes, the mindset, the worldview is drastically different. And so we can't pretend like that they have the exact same ideology, beliefs, worldview and policies because it's not true. And there are certainly policies that are far more reflective of biblical traditional values and righteousness on one side from one candidate than from the other. So if you're Christian and you have not yet voted, please make sure you get out and vote for those biblical values, vote for righteousness. And if that happens, that and as you mentioned, you know, we might we might another night and it might be two weeks. I think if Christians show up, then we will know tonight who the winner is. And just based on who has the more biblical position, certainly that that appears to be from the Trump side, that has the more biblically aligned values from the policies that have been promoted. 

David Barton [00:05:50] Well, one of the things we know in the polling that we did earlier and we've talked about this a couple times for the last couple of weeks, is that there are so many solid evangelical kind of people of faith that have said about 32 million that they were going to sit this out. And, you know, if they sit it out, it could be a tough election. They still may win, but be tough. And it's so interesting that we used to never set elections out because we believed that voting was a do. 

Tim Barton [00:06:18] And Dad, let me let me interject. When you say 32 million solid people are faith, those are at least evangelicals that have some level of devotion in their faith. Because I would contend that your faith might not be as devout as you think it is. If you think your faith doesn't apply to every area of life. And so if you're choosing to not let your faith be an expression when it comes to the government arena of politics and you think maybe faith doesn't apply everywhere, it might not be as solid. So I'm saying that as a caveat, because this ought to be a challenge for some people. How how much of the Bible applies to how many areas of life? And if the Bible applies, all the Bible applies all areas of our life, then there really is not your justification for sitting this out. I feel free to push back if you think our misrepresenting that, but I would challenge this notion that there are these really devout people of faith that are choosing to sit out based on a misunderstanding, a worldview, or maybe because having a totally typical worldview, they might really love Jesus. But certainly I don't think you can say they have a really solid biblical worldview if they're choosing to not partake and be salt and light in the government arena. 

David Barton [00:07:33] Yeah, I totally agree. Because if you understand the Bible and you understand things like we talked before about John Locke's two treatises of government that they used to write in the Declaration. That book by itself references the Bible over 1500 times and 400 pages in that book. So if you say, God, this word doesn't apply to government, that we have no responsibility in government, then then you haven't read enough of the Bible. And this is where pastors used to be a big help on this. You know, we've got election day to day. And it used to be that pastors who preach what were called Election Day sermons and it was a sermon about Election Day. Election Day is coming up. Here are your biblical responsibilities. Here's what God's word said about government. Here's what you've got to do. Is your part a role in government? And so we did that across the country, and we have a vast collection of those elections. As a matter of fact, I got a whole bunch of them are posted on the website WallBuilders Accommodate the documents we have there. But that used to be part of what the church did. It spoke out on this and it was a leader in this. And that's why so many of the people who were signers, the Declaration were also ministry trained. About 27 of those 56 of those 27 or 29 were involved in some type of Christian ministry, had been tried in schools that taught ministers, went to Bible schools, essentially. So that's the kind of stuff that we need as people back at that level. And at this point, we saw in our polling that only about 40% of pastors have even mentioned that elections are occurring. You know, we're not being salt and light in that arena. But fortunately, there are people out there who really understand what it means to be involved back in the American Revolution. One of the British critics of the Americas, a guy, a loyalist, Peter Oliver, he said, well, it's the Black Robe Regiment that was given problems. The black regiment were the ministers because they wore black robes and they were encouraging the people to stand up for freedom, stand up for the good principles of government, etc.. And so that's that's where the term the Black Robe Regiment came from, referring to preachers who stood firmly and position of God and country and family. And so they understood the biblical things. And there are still some pastors out there today who do that. One of them is our friend Gus Booth. And Gus, my goodness, I guess I go back 10 or 12 years with him when we were trying to take on the at that point it was noticed jobs and it still is known as that. But we were looking for pastors who would be willing to stand in the pulpit, speak openly, do an election sermon, even endorse a candidate, say, hey, here's the candidates, here's what they stand for based on what the Bible says. Here's here. You can't vote for these people. Get a vote for these people. And that was common. And desperate was one of the first ones to do that. And I think at the time, there were only about 30 or 32 ministers who did that. But we had legal representation available form through allies defending freedom, and we were ready to go to the Supreme Court and challenge that Johnson amendment. Since then, when Trump was in his first time, he ordered the Johnson amendment not to be enforced because it is unconstitutional. But nonetheless, we had some pastors early on that were willing to be part of that black robe regiment and Gus Booth, one of them. And here we are at another election season with another opportunity for an election sermon. He stepped up again and made national news and what he's done. 

Rick Green [00:10:41] Gus Booth, our special guest. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back with Pastor Gus Booth. Stay with us. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Break [00:10:46]  

Rick Green [00:11:54] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Pastor Gus Booth back with us. Pastor, great to have you on, man. It's Election Day and you're one of the boldest guys out there. I wish more pastors would do what you do, which is to actually live out the First Amendment, actually have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly. You are literally the press when you stand up in the pulpit. So anyway, God bless you, brother. Thanks for coming on today. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:12:15] I'm glad I agree with you. I wish more pastors would just ply the biblical word of morality to today's politics. Good Lord, why can't we make it so easy? 

Rick Green [00:12:26] You know, there was actually some guys like you in, I don't know, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, you know, like 1776 that became known as the Black Road Regiment because they were like you and they did not shy away from anything. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:12:42] I know. The Black Robe Regiment. You know what? Get up. She had resurrected somehow, but women too many of LG because they just, you know, they self-censor themselves. They just get involved in anything, you know, political. That means you're somehow betraying the kingdom of God because you get involved in the kingdom of men. And it's just not true. It's not true at all. 

Rick Green [00:13:02] Hey, man, it's you know, I got a buddy and you may know him. Paul Barry's has this thing called pastors. Have you guys have you been. I'm telling you that I call him my tiny little friend, you know, former lineman for the Chicago Bears. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:13:14] Okay. Where are you going? Your story. You're going to love this. So I'm sitting next to him at a conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. Ginormous. 1985 Chicago Bears Super Bowl ring on. And I'm a normal I'm a normal sized man. And he's a gargantuan man. I lean over and I see the Chicago ring. And I was like, Chicago sucks, Vikings roll. He's right. 

Rick Green [00:13:43] That's great. Well, you're you're. No, I'm little man. I'm a I'm a I'm a small guy. So when I joke with him, it's it's it's for a lot of fun. But he always said so you know you've been to liberty pastor stuff he always says you know, hey pastor what part of your life is the Lord now Lord over. And these guys that are leaving politics out there, they're not talking about how to treat our neighbors or what kind of laws we should have in our country or what biblical justice says. They're literally, you know, the basically say the Lord is only lord over family. Maybe work, you know, maybe a couple other things, but not over our our country, not over our. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:14:16] They wouldn't agree to that but their application. Yeah. Well non application would that's what they demonstrate it sister. Right. It's sad to me it really is yeah. 

Rick Green [00:14:27] When you when you speak up Gus what what do you hear from other pastors because they have to hear about it right. I mean when you stand up and say, hey, this is biblical, this is not biblical, you even you even do what a lot of the Black Robe Regiment in the founding era did, that a lot of even the bolder pastors, that they are unwilling to do it now. I'm glad you do it. You actually say, here's a party that's upholding biblical principles. Here's a party that isn't here's the candidate that is most upholding biblical principles. Of course, none. Perfect all floor jars of clay. But will you do that? What do other pastors in the community say? Well, what are people in your church say? 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:14:59] Well, people in my church mostly love it, but not everybody does. I'll be honest. You know, they they don't. But my favorite comment from another pastor was says, Gus, you're just John the Baptist. The rest of us don't want to lose our head.  And I just thought it was a super big compliment. But at the same time, it's like he threw himself under the bus. You know, it's just like, you know, John the Baptist was put in prison because he spoke biblical morality to a political leader of his day. And I feel like we ought to walk in the footsteps of not just John the Baptist, but Jesus spoke truth to power. The disciples spoke truth to power. I mean, all of our founders of the faith were so hated by their culture because they spoke truth to power that their culture killed them for it. And then people talk to me, they're like, Pastor Gus, you're so bold, you're so bold. And I'm like, It doesn't take any boldness to say what needs to be said in this country. You know, where it takes boldness to to to evangelize in in Tehran. 

Rick Green [00:16:05] Man. True. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:16:08] Who's evangelizing on the street of Iran, you know, or anywhere else where the government is as bad as Iran, you know, like it. That's where it's boldness. It's not even boldness. Yeah. And people still can't even speak up. And it's sad to me that so many, quote, leaders of the body of Christ there are not leading in that area. 

Rick Green [00:16:27] Well, considering that now, I didn't even tell our listeners that that may not remember our last interview with you, considering that you're in Minnesota where, you know, you have a governor that probably would put you in jail if he had a chance to do so. You know, you I think what you should do next Sunday is show up with, you know, like the wild hair outfit and tell everybody for potluck after church we're having locusts and wild honey. And we're going to we're going to officially be joining them. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:16:52] So. So, yeah, I'd prefer some beef. How about that? Yeah. 

Rick Green [00:16:58] Yeah. Deal. Deal. Hey, speaking of Minnesota, you know, what's it like on the ground there right now? What's your. You know what you're thinking of. Yeah, go ahead. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:17:07] Well, I mean, the evangelical church in Minnesota knows that Walz basically became a dictator during Covid. Yeah, I mean, he was just so shut and everything down. And and that was. 

Rick Green [00:17:20] You probably told me this and I forgot it. But when I saw the videos after they named him as the VP of the VP candidate and that video went around social media of the police officers walking down the street with paintball guns, shooting people on their front porch if they didn't go inside and barking the commands like we were in the Third Reich, I could not believe it. Man, that was I mean, you know how I was during Covid and how angry I got at my own governor in Texas for locking us up. But Matt Waltz was. I didn't realize he was so much worse. Yeah, even Newsom or any of these other guys. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:17:52] You know, when we actually quote like we didn't close church except one time I found out I had Covid Saturday night. So we were like, okay, well, we shouldn't have. But we had outdoor services. We we did everything we could to stay legal. And I was telling the Lord, like, Lord, I'll do it. I'll be the guy You want me to be the guy, I'll be the guy to, you know, to to just have church. Anyway, he just kept telling me, just obey. Just obey. Just obey. And so that's what I did. But when we were finally allowed to come back to church, there was almost not a dry eye in the house. Right. People were so thankful to be back in church, and we realized how essential church really was. 

Rick Green [00:18:36] Amen. It is. And it's essential to meet the needs of the people and to disciple and to give. Biblical worldview on everything. And so when you do that and you you basically you do what we've asked pastors to do for years, send the service to the IRS and say, come and get me. I mean, you literally are like Morpheus in the Matrix with the whole thing, you know, waving them towards you, saying, Come and get it. Yeah. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:18:58] I don't understand why. I mean, we have the First Amendment right and then we have that crazy Johnson amendment. Yeah, but why don't pastors, you know, basically just realize the First Amendment has been, you know, leading our nation for hundreds of years, the Johnson Amendment for a little over well, about 70 now, I guess. But I mean, it's just like those two federal quote, amendments need to have their day in court and there needs to be, you know, some clarity here. But the IRS want clarity. Yeah. You know. 

Rick Green [00:19:30] Yeah, well, one of them's actually in the Constitution. The other is nothing but an amendment on a federal bill that, you know, it's like it's a paper tiger, and that's why they won't come after you. And I wish they would, because then we get the clarity you're talking about we need. Well, they did that. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:19:43] They looked into us years ago, and then they sent us a letter that said due to, quote, internal procedural issues, we are dropping the investigation. Wow. We wanted them to come after us. So I called them up. Actually, it was the it was the IRS office out of Dallas, Texas. I call them up. And the gal said to me because I asked, why did you drop it? What were the internal procedural issues? She said, and I quote, I just put in that letter what DC told me to put in that letter. 

Rick Green [00:20:11] Wow. There you go. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:20:13] You know, they had their trouble with coming after Tea Party people, you know, so much. And. And I just. I wonder if that was the precursor to it. 

Rick Green [00:20:22] Interesting. Interesting. Well, I hope that, you know what not I hope I know that courage breeds more courage and it's contagious. And so more and more pastors are waking up. I know it's too slow a role for guys like you and me. We get frustrated with the ones that don't. I go to church now in Fredericksburg, Texas, where in fact, you know, just visited with the pastor yesterday, you know, and he said, you know, listen, Rick, man, two years ago, 2 to 3 years ago, I would not have have been a black robed regiment. Pastor God had to wake me up and to literally, you know, slap me silly and get me to understand he was kind of like Frederick Frederick Augustus, Bill Amberg, not the one that preached and, you know, disrobed. It was his brother that was telling him he shouldn't be doing it, but then later got so involved. Right. Give us that First Amendment. We just got through talking about that first year that the. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:21:07] United States House. Yeah, that. Then his name was Buzz. 

Rick Green [00:21:11] I forgot to think about that Frederick I this meal and burger. That's exactly right man. it's so good. That's so good. Well, I say that to say, you know, this guy, we love him and he's just on fire. And so I think there are a lot of pastors out there that are coming around and will become those Frederick, Gus, Ishmael and Burgs just not happening fast enough for me. So let's pray that more of them come around. Thank you for setting the example, man. You know, we're praying for you, praying for your state, You know, continue to to to work to rebuild the constitution of religious liberty in every state here in the United States. So thanks for leading the way behind enemy lines. You may feel like it sometimes that. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:21:50] Here where. 

Rick Green [00:21:51] You are. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:21:52] Minnesota. I can't believe so. People are so liberal up here. 

Rick Green [00:21:56] Yeah, well, keep up the great work, brother. We're going to encourage everybody today to go vote, make sure that they're doing their part and and look forward to getting some good news from you on maybe even taking out the Johnson Amendment in a new administration in Washington, D.C., in this next year, 2020. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:22:12] Yeah, that thing needs to go. 

Rick Green [00:22:14] Yeah, absolutely. Pastor Gus Booth. God bless you, man. Have a great one. 

Pastor Gus Booth [00:22:17] Thank you, sir. 

Rick Green [00:22:19] Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David in Tim Barton

Rick Green [00:23:28] Welcome back to the Wobble to show thanks to Pastor Gus for speaking out, for spending a little bit of time with us here on Election Day. A lot of pastors out there, David and Tim, speaking this year that they didn't two years ago or four years ago. I've talked to many of them that God just woke him up, man, and said, Hey, you guys are our preacher, the whole Council of God, and and applied the Bible to culture as well. So we're going to find out tonight if that made a difference. But even regardless of how the election turns out, we need more of that, right? We need to keep waking up churches to get involved and apply scripture. 

Tim Barton [00:23:58] What we do. And one of the things that, as you mentioned, regardless of what happens tonight, we can recognize from the polling, there's a lot of work that needs to be done even inside of the church, maybe especially inside of the church, when it comes to having a better biblical worldview, a biblical perspective. The polling from George Barna that we've been referencing a lot over the last couple of weeks leading up to today, Election Day, one of the staggering statistics was that 42% of churchgoing Christians supported removing any restriction on abortions. And hey, we support abortion on demand. No restrictions. Think that's totally fine. 42% of active, churchgoing Christian. Well, that's mind boggling. Like, what verse are you basing that on? Because clearly the Bible teaches that God is the author and giver of life, that that life is sacred, that God formed a newness together, our mother's womb, that even before we were formed, he knew, I said that God had a plan predetermined for us. I mean, so many verses we can point to about God being the author and give her the value of life on board. And yet the fact that so many Christians have an unbiblical position on such what I would consider a very basic biblical issue is representative of how poorly the church has done in making disciples. And I think one of the things that that really is a reflection that we have seen that the church has to recognize is we need to do a better job of making disciples that we can do that with with the family, with the church, but also with government. We can do it in communities. The church has a lot of work to do regardless of what happens this election that we have to recognize, our calling is to make disciples. And there's a lot of discipleship that needs to happen. 

David Barton [00:25:36] You know, and Tim, I would even back up one further because a number we saw in the polling that was bigger than that 42% was that 56% of churchgoing, active, churchgoing Christians believe there is no moral trends in the value of right and wrong. Nothing's absolutely right or absolutely wrong. Well, no wonder you can think that abortion up there nine months is okay when the Bible says it's not back in Leviticus and elsewhere. Not to mention the fact that just read the Ten Commandments. There's a bunch of moral absolutes for you. Those lay it down. And so we do need pastors being very clear within the church community because we people need to understand God does say certain things are right, certain things are wrong. You need to conform to his opinion, not create your own. And that's where people I guess both are so good at stepping forward to be able to do that. 

Rick Green [00:26:23] Well, tomorrow we'll know a lot. We may not know all of it. Maybe we'll only know in part. Anyway, we're going to have a election recap show for you tomorrow, folks. Make sure you tune in to The WallBuilders Show and you can get that at the WallBuilders website, wallbuilders.com or at our radio site WallBuilders.Show. Make sure you get out there and vote today folks. Thanks for listening to the WallBuilders Show.