The WallBuilders Show

Israel's Strategic Maneuvers: Unraveling the Geopolitical Chessboard with Iran

Tim Barton, David Barton & Rick Green

Ever wondered how a small nation like Israel maneuvers through the geopolitical labyrinth against giants like Iran? Join us as we unravel this complex David and Goliath scenario with Rudy Atallah, our expert on Middle Eastern affairs. Hear Rudy's insights into Israel's recent military strategies, including bold airstrikes that have poked significant holes in Iran's missile defense shield. The discussion highlights the precarious balance of power and the formidable challenges Israel faces due to Iran's alliances with major powers like Russia and China. As Rudy articulates the stakes involved, we explore the broader implications of Iran's nuclear ambitions and how they ripple across global markets and international alliances.

This episode is your ticket to understanding the intricate web of global politics tied to the Israel-Iran conflict. Discover the strategic calculations of major players, including the United States and Gulf nations, as they strive to curb a nuclear Iran. We dive into the machinations behind rising oil prices and the roles of peripheral actors like Turkey and North Korea in this high-stakes game. Rudy also offers his perspective on potential U.S. actions to support Israel and the ripple effects of leadership changes within Iran. Don't miss out on this opportunity to grasp the motivations and potential outcomes of a conflict that holds the world on edge.

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Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's the WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I'm Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And very interesting weekend, guys. Course. Rudy Atallah was letting us know about what was going on in Israel and the the moves against Iran and said he would come on. And so we've got him here right here on Monday to get caught up on what happened over the weekend. Can can I just start by being essentially Steve Carell in the office? Like talk to me like I'm a second grader, Rudy, because I do not understand the capabilities of Iran, Hezbollah, you know, what is what is Israel already taken out? And then what's the risk after what they did this weekend? So, so thankful for you coming on because, man, I'm like, you know, I wish I knew more. And so you do such a great job of helping us understand exactly what's happening over there. So catch us up, ma'am. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:00:58] Yes, sir. Well, it's it's good to be back with you guys. The situation is complex now, as as most people know, if you look at the geography, Israel to Iran is a fairly long distance. You have several countries in between. And in order to retaliate to against a country like Iran, you really have to have capabilities and also have a very strong diplomatic relationships with neighboring countries and not most. Most of those countries are not friends with Israel. Israel had to retaliate against Iran because Iran had fired rockets at Israel. And you were asking about Iranian capabilities. Over the years, Iran has received a lot of support from Russia. So they have sophisticated air defense weapons like S-300, S-400 of other types of capabilities, they've been building their own missiles, you know, long range rockets. They are also getting more and more sophisticated and drone technology. So Iran has been actually exporting some of its technology to the Russians to use in the Ukrainian war. 

 

Rick Green [00:02:07] And and if I could if I could interrupt you, Rudy, just for a second. Just to clarify, when you say Iran doing this, so the difference between what happened up until the last few weeks was that they were basically attacking through their proxy Hezbollah, you know, almost claiming it wasn't them, But they're the ones funding Hezbollah. Right. Actually supporting Hezbollah. And and and Israel took care of that. But now it's actually Iran itself that has attacked is my father when that. Right. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:02:35] Yes, there's a little bit more to that. So, yes, Hezbollahs is one of its proxies. They also Iran has proxies inside Syria. It's got proxies inside Iraq and and obviously use its proxies inside Gaza with Hamas. So so Iran's been a, you know, a basically a rogue player across the region. And also and you're correct, is Israel was retaliating against Iran for the attacks that Iran did by firing rockets from Iran proper and drones against Israel. So you for the past week, everybody's been waiting in anticipation. What does an Israeli response look like? Everybody was people were speculating between potential strikes on on Iran's oil production capabilities because they do export oil. And we are supposed to have them under sanctions. President Trump had sanctioned them pretty hard, but unfortunately, those sanctions haven't been reinforced under the Biden administration. For example, China gets a lot of oil from Iran. And so Iran has been plussed up with money just from Chinese oil. Plus, they've been also plus stuff with weapons from the Russians. And their nuclear program has been getting more and more advanced to the point where they literally are not far away from having a potentially nuclear capability or, you know, a nuclear weapon. So so everybody's watching their nuclear program very, very carefully. Now, Israel decided to finally retaliate this this past Friday into early Saturday morning. The retaliation took place in the form of Israeli jets flying a thousand miles all the way over Iranian airspace and engaging all Iranian air defense systems. They hit 20 military targets across Iran to include factories that produce rocket propellants, rockets and drone factories. They they struck them all around Iran. Plus, they did low level flybys over Tehran, the capital of Iran, and and also bombed targets in military installations around Tehran. So they did it over a period of 3 to 4 hours, and they inflicted severe damage to Iran's missile defense capabilities. And in fact, in some of the reports that are out, they said that they put Iran's missile missile defense capabilities two years behind with with. So this means that if if now Iran retaliates back against Israel, Israel can respond and fly over Iranian airspace unencumbered, essentially, and hit nuclear sites, oil factories, oil production facilities, those types of things. So it's basically degraded Iran's defensive capabilities tremendously. 

 

Rick Green [00:05:45] Yeah, I had to I had to give our listeners a visual here because I'm I'm not the most ignorant guy, but I'm not the smartest guy either. And and when I pull up the map and I am shocked, honestly, at the size of Iran, the size of Iraq, the size of Syria, even Jordan compared to Israel. Right. So, I mean, we always talk about how small Israel is geographically and the ability to do even this mission. The other night, flight having to, like you said, flying across multiple nations that aren't necessarily friendly and to hit these key targets all across Iran. I mean, this is like I'm sorry to my friends in the northeast, this is like Delaware attacking Texas. I mean, in terms of geography, you're right. But obviously, capability totally different. So I just want our listeners to have that visual to realize what Israel is having to take on here. And of course, they've always been under this pressure. But to go on the offensive in this way and respond, you know, is a big deal. So, anyway. I'm sorry, Rudy, go ahead. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:06:43] No, I'd say it's an actually very good analogy. It's a David and Goliath kind of, you know, scenario. And and, you know, David obviously is Israel. And they they you know, they have a fairly big foe, but they won and took them on in such a very in a smart way and really carefully picked the those targets. The Israelis are extremely smart at planning their extremely smart and also navigating really complex airspaces. And they're also very good at knowing precisely how to defeat the enemy by picking them apart very strategically. And this is exactly what they did against Iran. Now, Iran has put up a sign in in Tehran, in Hebrew, saying that they will. Talia against Israel. And, you know, they try to make that public. But what they also did is they told their population, hey, there's nothing to see here. Anybody that takes photos of any of the damaged sites will be in prisons for ten years. So basically, they're basically, you know, in one way they're saying, nothing really happened. But at the same time, they're really concerned about an assessment of the damage. But they're, you know, the the other side, the United States and Israel have looked at the damage already using satellite capabilities. And they can see that this that the damage is significant. 

 

Tim Barton [00:08:12] Hey, Rudy, may I ask you another question along this line? Yes. Recognizing that a nuclear Iran is not good for the world. And so there would be a lot of nations with a vested interest in for their own safety, security, protection in Iran, not having nuclear. And so it does seem strategic, but but maybe even a longer term thinking and I'm asking this to someone knowing that you have a very strategic military background. And so not asking you maybe to give us the playbook of Israel. But I'm just curious if they're taking out the air defense system. It seems like now they're perfectly set to say we can come in and clear the nuclear. Whatever kind of build might be coming for, not just for a power source and system, but ultimately for a weapon, a nuclear weapon in Iran. Would this be something that Israel is just biding their time before they take it out? It's a strategic bargaining chip, I would think. There are other nations of the world right now that would would even be encouraging Israel to be the one to do this, because then, you know, maybe some of these other nations, their hands are clean in the world's eyes. But I ran doesn't have now the nuclear capability to to be the terrorist organization around the world at the same level. Is am I thinking of that correctly or how would you view that? 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:09:35] No, you're 100% correct. And a nuclear Iran is a very dangerous Iran because they have so many proxy groups that can create dirty bombs, essentially give them to these proxy groups, and all of a sudden you have major problems. United States. Remember, you know, Israel's considered Satan and the United States is considered the great Satan, according to Iranian mullahs. You know, so. So we would be a primary target. I mean, Iran has been after President Trump, for example. They they they want President Trump out of the equation. So so the United States benefits from a non nuclear Iran and so does Israel. But other other countries in the region, like many Gulf countries like Saudi Arabia and the UAE, some of these countries also benefit from a non-nuclear Iran. So, yes, you're correct in your assessment. And by the way, in all these strikes that Israel did on Friday into Saturday, they did strike a a nuclear research facility where they normally do all the, you know, the the science or the the the the were the brains of the nuclear program are you know you know normally work on their nuclear program going forward. So Israel did strike that essentially it wasn't a nuclear site per se but it's it's where all the they keep the you know, all their advanced paperwork and all the research and all that stuff. Now, if you if you put it together, you know, this war between Iran and Israel and you guys had asked me this question before, if you look at all the countries involved or care about this region not getting a bit more complicated, if you put all those countries together, we're looking at about 18 countries. This this includes in the United States, for example, France, the UAE, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Azerbaijan. There are several. There's a long list of countries that are pro or against Israel in this fight. And the thing is, it's getting far more complex than just Israel and Iran, because now you have a narrow country, Turkey, that's basically threatened Israel a couple of times, saying what you're doing in Gaza is shameful. We want you to stop and we want you to stop what you're doing in Lebanon against Hezbollah. Now, mind you, that that is not very good for a NATO country to be doing. Israel needs to respond. It's got every right to respond after October 7th, a year ago, when when you know that that that attack happened in Israel on October 8th, Hezbollah and its proxy groups were firing rockets into Israel. So so in a year's period, they fired over 9000 rockets at Israel. So it has the God given right to defend itself. And that's exactly what it's doing. And now it's showing by picking apart not only Iran, but also Hezbollah and the proxy groups in there. By the way, in that three hour strike that they struck Iran, they also struck facilities inside Syria all the way, you know, because Syria has radar. They have early warning systems when Israeli jets are flying overhead. So those those warning systems give warning systems to Iran and whatnot. They struck all those along the way. They took down also missile batteries along the way in Syria and continued all the way into Iran to do their offensive, which was really remarkable how they did it. 

 

Rick Green [00:13:11] Yeah, I can't. I mean, I hate to be such a spy novel reader, but I am. I mean, I read all the books and all the, you know, and and I mean, this year has been like reading a spy novel of some kind. I mean, the whole major thing. I mean, all the things that, you know, you told us about it, it's just remarkable. I mean, God is I think I think this is, like Tim said, this great for the world that this is happening. Yeah. So what's the best way for America to support Israel, Israel, as they take this next step? Because this is what you know, they're obviously we're talking about countries that would want to see Iran no longer have the nuclear capability. But there's also a lot of folks that are so afraid of this escalating and they hate Israel and they want they're they're going to look for any any excuse. Right. To jump on the bandwagon. So what should we be thinking and and what should we be asking of our American leaders? Just, you know, in addition to, of course, support Israel. But like what would be the things you would recommend we say to. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:14:10] Yeah, I mean, the first thing is who benefits from, you know, this this war continuing. If the war continues, obviously oil prices are going to go up. So Russia benefits from higher oil prices because they're an oil exporter and therefore they're going to export at a higher dollar value. Therefore, they're going to Putin is going to make more money. But now the world's attention is going to be on the Middle East. And it also draws attention away from the war where he's taking a pretty bad beating in in Ukraine. And I say that because right now North Korea has been giving troops to Russia to fight in Ukraine. As of now, they're talking about 11,000 North Korean troops going to fight alongside the Russians in Ukraine. And now this. The South Koreans are talking about arming the Ukrainians against the North Koreans who are on the Russian side. So it's getting very complicated. Right. So, yeah, so but again, who benefits from the war in the Middle East? High oil prices, Russia benefits. Now, who is going to be upset about it? And one, China was getting a lot of oil out of Iran. And if if the second strike, Israel hits the oil, the oil fields and the ports where oil come out, then China loses. So you've got two major actors on a global scale here that are involved in this. The United States benefits from a weak Iran, but it depends on which administration you talk to, because Obama started the JCPoA, where he thought that we can appease the Iranians by making these side deals with them and turning a blind eye to its proxy groups in Lebanon, like Hezbollah, where they work money laundering, narco trafficking, weapons trafficking. That's how Hezbollah got really strong during the Obama years. And and and then Biden continued this whole process initially when the administration started of all we can negotiate with the Iranians while they found out that you can negotiate with the Iranians, you don't negotiate with with the devil himself. And so so now now we're at a we're at a position where Israel is having to roll up its sleeves and do all the dirty work for all of us. 

 

Rick Green [00:16:28] Yeah. And almost by themselves, I mean, I'm assuming we're helping behind the scenes, but I also think we undermining behind the scenes. Hey, Rudy, real quick, got to take a quick break. Yeah. Come back to let me forget to ask you what a JCPoA is. You are. Basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever all those letters were. Stay with us, folks. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

 

Break [00:16:44]  

 

Rick Green [00:17:53] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Back with Rudy Atallah, our special guest today. Get an update on what's been going on with Israel and this incredible move against Iran. And Rudy, we were joking at the as we went to break, but I wasn't really joking. Like, what was that? What was that long acronym you gave him about how Obama set up this deal that really ended up helping Iran? 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:18:11] So so, so the JCPoA. Essentially, what is is just to simplify it. It's the talks that we were doing with Iran in order to bring them to the table and denuclearize them essentially through diplomacy. So we we discuss, okay, Iran, you know, we want you to reduce your nuclear, you know, development capabilities. We don't want you to go military grade nuclear. If you do, then we'll you know, we'll we'll lift up some sanctions. You can sell your oil, you know. And under Obama, what did we do? We landed planes of pallets with American dollars on there. And what did they do? They turned around and used those dollars against us by killing Americans and wounding American GIs in Iraq and and doing all kinds of things by helping their proxy groups and whatnot. And that continued under Biden, unfortunately, under under Trump. He did something very different. He sanctioned them. He held them to the sanctions. And by the way, the head of their IRGC, the Iranian Republican Guard, which is considered a very dangerous entity within the Iranian government, they're the ones that basically do all the planning with these terror groups and whatnot, and they help them. The leader of that group was a guy named Costume Soleimani, who every like under Clinton, Bush and Obama, they had chances to kill him, but they were too scared to upset Iran by killing this guy who was very close to Ali Khamenei. The the the leader of Iran, the spiritual leader of Iran. So what they what what when Trump came into office, he said we what did this guy do? What he hurt American soldiers. He killed American soldiers. He wanted them not take them off the playing field. He had a 20 minute window and he whacked them and took them after. And literally. 

 

Rick Green [00:20:03] It's actually fun to hear Trump talk about it right when he says he died like a dog. So he does know. He doesn't mince words

 

Rudy Atallah [00:20:10] Wait, so when he said he died like a dog, he was referencing that the leader of ISIS. This is the leader of the IRGC. This is different, dog. I got it. This is what this is. This is the leader of the Iranian Republican Guard who was very elusive and very difficult to kill Trump in care. He killed them, took them off the chessboard in 2019. And what happened is Iran was so devastated by his death because he was this is the guy that all that began the orchestration of the October 7th, three years prior to it happening or more. Yeah, he's he's the initial architect of this. So so Trump took him. 

 

Rick Green [00:20:45] After Trump also didn't. I heard Trump saying in the Rogan interview yesterday or a few days ago that he he also made every nation he talked to. He specifically said, you buy any oil from Iran and you're going to pay for it. We're not we're going to hurt you economically. So, yeah, he actually his negotiations around the world also helped to keep Iran in a box and big time did the direct things. Yeah. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:21:08] Well, that's why they hate him so much and that's why they want to they want to take him. They can take him out. And that's why the United States is the great scene. Well, I'm telling you, Lord willing, Trump comes back. I think Iran is going to quake in its boots because they really don't want want to come back. Something else is happening currently in Iran, which is really also interesting for the region is the leader of Iran. Khomeini is 85 years old and he's critically ill. They say that he can die any day now. And if he does, he's got two sons and his second son is the one that might take over from him, was in his 50s and just as radical. So. So there are a lot of changes. Also, the youth in Iran want the mullahs. The the the spiritual leaders is Khomeini guys to be pushed out. So, you know, Israel is hoping that if they weaken Iran, that it would make room for the youth to rise up again and to try to push these guys out. So there's a lot at play here, and it's very, very complex. The region is even more complex. And I'll just give you a little little bit more. And hopefully I'm not throwing too much. So feel free to ask questions. So at the same time, this is playing out. Israel's also striking Hezbollah inside Lebanon, where there's a power play where Christians and Druze and and Sunnis are also now being pushed by Shia or Hezbollah people. 

 

Tim Barton [00:22:33] Mahdi, I don't mean this to derail now my brains not even sure is the right word. Right. But derail. That's the word. I derail you. I don't want to. 

 

Rick Green [00:22:42] Go with you. We make up words around here, Rudy, just all the time. Derail all. 

 

Tim Barton [00:22:46] Along. I just look up an old history book and I'm like, Yeah, it's probably fine. It's in there somewhere. With that being said. I think he's kind of where you're going. And I want to ask real quick, because we're almost out of time, which really means in my mind, we just need to ask you to come back this week. Next week. We need to get you back on to tell us more about this. But it seems like Israel has done such a good job, strategic targets. But also, I mean, we've seen over the last several weeks them strategically take out the leaders of I mean, whoever is like the second in command. He's gone third in command, gone for the command gone of some of these terrorist organizations. Yeah, It's a what kind of power vacuum is that creating or are they taking out so many of the major players that now it's opening up opportunities for other non terrorist organizations to come and fill some of those powerful positions and maybe even change some of of the map when it comes to these nations that have been terrorist nations or go in the wrong direction. Does it give an opportunity for nations to go a different direction? 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:23:47] It does. So I'll use Lebanon as an example. 30% of the Lebanese population is Christian. The Christians have been divided over the last 40 years with Hezbollah, its presence and Iranian play in there. It's been very difficult for the Christians to to really have any power. They've been disarmed. They've been pushed out with this play where Israel is taking out the entire leadership of Hezbollah, which is backed by Iran, completely off the chessboard. What's happening now is Christians are coming together and really pushing to fill in that vacuum space. So Lebanon, if it gets its act together, has a very good chance of stabilizing itself, getting the funding, rebuilding itself economically, and that would secure the border with northern with northern Israel. That leaves now Syria. So so, yes, you're correct in your assessment, but it's going to require a lot of outside assistance. The only problem is, is they need a strong United States to help them do that, number one. And number two. You also have some very complicated other wars like the war in Europe, Ukraine and Russia and potentially war in the Pacific right now. So all these add to the complexities of where things are going. But, yes, Israel has been really showing some some extreme forethought. Israel is playing. I like to tell people Israel is playing three dimensional chess. The other side's playing checkers. 

 

Rick Green [00:25:15] Yeah. Yeah. 

 

Tim Barton [00:25:16] Well, normal chess is hard enough for me. I'm much bigger thinkers, but 3D chess. But I mean, Rudy, to your point, it's so remarkable to see what Israel is doing. And in the midst of a crazy election cycle in America and so much uneasiness around the world. It's incredible to see how God is allowing Israel to take off so many bad guys off the board. And as unstable as the world is, Israel seems like they're positioning themselves to be much safer. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:25:46] 100%. 100%, Yes. And there's by the way, obviously, you're limited on your time. There's so much to unpack. I can sit here and talk with you guys for hours because there's so many things we can talk about, not only Lebanon, but Syria. 

 

Rick Green [00:26:02] Careful now because we can't keep you forever if you do offer that. Yeah. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:26:07] Well, listen, with you guys, I'm more than happy to do that. I love talking to you guys. It's always fun. 

 

Rick Green [00:26:13] We appreciate the education for sure, Rudy. We are anytime for for this program. We want to get you back ASAP. You got it. And these two guys keep David. Tim, keep promising to take me to Israel someday. Maybe they will spend, like, I don't know, ten years of this. And so my ignorant questions might not be so ignorant in the future if they ever actually take me over there. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:26:31] If they don't, I'll take you. Even though maybe we can all go together. 

 

Rick Green [00:26:35] All right, man. Hey, appreciate you so much. Rudy Gov, virtually. Thank you for joining us today. 

 

Rudy Atallah [00:26:38] Love you guys. 

 

Rick Green [00:26:40] That's it, folks. Thanks to Rudy Goodell for joining us today. You've been listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

 

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