Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. This is the WallBuilder Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. If you're just now phitidis for the first time. Be sure to check out WallBuilders.Show to get more of our programing and then wallbuilders.com for our main website. You can book speakers there you get all kinds of great materials that will inform and equip and inspire you and your family. And then of course you can make that one time or monthly donation right wallbuilders.com. Great way to come alongside us. We will reach more people, train more pastors, legislators, young people, teachers, all the different things we're doing. Every bit of fuel you put in the tank. It allows us to reach more people. So please consider doing that today at wallbuilders.com I Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. David at Tim we got Joe Kennedy coming on we mentioned it yesterday but Joe's of course the really the hero that that took a stand in Washington and our friend Kelly Shackelford nine years he and Mike Berry and the other guys over at First Liberty bought this battle with Joe and now they've got a great movie coming out. And I don't remember. Did you guys get to watch the screener or not? 

Tim Barton [00:01:12] We have been sent the screener. Have we watched it yet? No

Rick Green [00:01:18] I backed you into a corner there, Tim. Now you're busted on radio here. That you I. 

Tim Barton [00:01:22] Mean, the reality is I want to watch this. It's just finding that gap of time to do it. And, you know, when we talk about when we talk about the difference one person can make and how. God can use somebody. I mean, looking back historically, nobody I don't think is going to point to a case that has maybe more significance in impact in America than this Joe Kennedy decision did because of what happens with overturning Lemon. The Lemon tests from 1971, the Kurtzman decision and all of the opportunities now available for religious liberty. The fact that earlier this year in Louisiana, they were able to a Governor Landrey I was standing right beside right behind him when he signed the law that put the Ten Commandments back in every public school in Louisiana. We're we're seeing an Oklahoma Governor, Stitt, sign the law. Ryan Walters work in putting Bibles in every single classroom in Oklahoma. And this is just a tip of the iceberg of what's beginning to happen. And all this happened because of Joe Kennedy, because he saw a movie facing the Giants and said, you know what? I'm going to I'm going to honor God. And and I don't want to give away too much of his story because I've heard him many times actually had an opportunity that to be at a conference with them not long ago. Rick and I, you've done some stuff with them and he's just a great guy. So normal. But the way that God used such a simple decision and in a moment when it looks like, man, this is not going the right direction, at least from his perspective, right? I mean, this is kind of that the thing that when we read scripture and it says that in Roman 8:28, they take that God causes all things to work together for good for those who love him are called to His purpose. We know that in the midst of challenging situations that God is still in control, that God can still do something incredible and make beauty from ashes is one of the phrases the Bible uses. But when you're in the middle of that, that pain or that persecution, when you're in the middle of drama, it doesn't always feel wonderful and you don't always know how it's going to come out. And for what God has done because of Joe Kennedy is absolutely incredible. But learning more of his story, there's so much more than just the last nine approximate years of this legal battle. And I know the movie gets into that psalm, which is this is where I'm very curious to learn more about some of those details and and find out more, but how God has used this Supreme Court case to change the fabric and the opportunities in this nation is absolutely incredible. 

David Barton [00:04:09] You know, you guys and a whole story of thinking, Rick, you're talking about the case. And Tim, you went into how significant that case is with Joe Kennedy. And and a lot of times we see the consequence of something but don't really know the story behind it. And what it reminded me of is the Amistad case, the Amistad case, a Supreme Court decision that changed the landscape in many areas. But when Steven Spielberg came out with the movie Amistad and you got the story behind the case and you got to learn about the many people, and you saw John Quincy Adams and the arguments that went and and how they tried to find a mendi translator down on the docks. And then you learned about the people who were that had been taken slave and that and became Christians and went back as missionaries. I mean, the story itself is absolutely phenomenal. Now, there's no question the court decision affected the nation, just like Joe Kennedy is. I don't know. We probably reference that in 30 programs over the last few years about how much it's changed things and what is. For us to be able to. To do things we haven't been able to do in communities and 40, 50, 60 years. So it's the same thing when you get Joe Story. The case is really significant, but the story is what's really fun and really interesting. And by the way, if you decide to watch Amistad Academy Award winning movie, Steven Spielberg, great movie, right up from where they're capturing the slaves, it's got some tribal nudity up front. So just be aware. And if you don't like that past the first few minutes, then pick up the story because it's phenomenal after that. But it's the same kind of thing. The story is what is so compelling. The result has has shifted the nation. But the story is what's really, really fun to see. 

Rick Green [00:05:51] It's and and they do it in a really fun way, too. I mean, it's just it's done incredibly well. I did watch the screener, so I have one up until the day. That doesn't happen very often. But now he'll get to watch it. And you're going to love it, bro. I'm telling you, they just do it in a in a really unique way. It almost feels like you're watching Parks and Rec or the Office sometimes because they break the fourth wall all the time and look at the camera and it's hilarious. And and then, you know, it's these dramatic scenes. I mean, you're cried, literally cried in parts of the movies. That is that good. So and I'm a sap anyway. All right. So Coach Kennedy will be with us. Stay with us. We'll be right back. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Break [00:06:25]  

Rick Green [00:07:33] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Great to have Coach Joe Kennedy back with us. Coach, always good to talk to you, man. Thanks for coming on again. 

Joe Kennedy [00:07:39] Absolutely. It's always great to talk to you, brother. 

Rick Green [00:07:42] Well, I got a cheat sheet. I got to watch your movie before it comes out. And man, I was blown away. I'm telling you, your story is incredible. I know people are initially going to go see this for the religious liberty story and the Supreme Court case. They're going to be amazed at the family story, just the the blood of Christ on your life. I mean, anyway, I just want to tell you, I love the way the movie turned out, the way they did it. And it's an incredible testimony. And I hope you are as happy with it as I think the audiences are going to be. This is a really good movie, bro. 

Joe Kennedy [00:08:17] Yeah, but you know, I could be biased if you saw it. I'm good now. 

Rick Green [00:08:24] Well, you know, I'm. Sure even as we were talking off air before we came on, you know, I always worry, right, about the cheese factor. Are people going to take a Christian story and make it cheesy and cringe and and not at all. Man. This was so good. My kids watched it with me, were crying. It was just and it was it just the religious that which, you know, I'm a patriot, man. I love that part. And just the way that your patriotism came out was so good. But your vulnerability, you're, you're you're  being willing to tell your whole story right for the beginning of the movie to like this is not at the end. I mean you guys jump right into it. I love it. I, I think this is going to just change hearts and minds, not just tell the story of of the Supreme Court case. You got to be thrilled. 

Joe Kennedy [00:09:07] Yeah, I think God has something to say still. So I I'm I'm believing that this this would be all right. 

Rick Green [00:09:13] So so I got to ask you. So when they were starting to even talk about the movie possibilities, at what point did you start thinking, you know, I want this to be more than just the legal battle. I want to I want to I want to tell the story of how Christ redeemed our marriage, how he redeemed my life, all that. When did that hit? 

Joe Kennedy [00:09:33] Well, it originally hit me and the brains behind it. Troy. He heard one of my testimonies when I kind of spilled my guts to the world, and he said, wow this needs be told. So we both had the vision of telling a real story. It's not just like you said, it's not just a legal battle that which would be to me not be absolutely boring. And it's not over religious one, you know, where they're cramming God down your throat. We wanted to be where everybody is. It touches everybody and affects everybody because it's the First Amendment. It's not a left or right site. And I wanted them to be true to Denice and  I story  it. That was one of the biggest sales. And they really did a good job with Denice. That's what my biggest fear was, is that, man, this would be cheesy and she looks terrible, but it was awesome. 

Rick Green [00:10:26] Yeah. You know, I. I mean, it's a gift to to pull off a movie like this and for them to tell the story the way they did. And for you guys to say, hey, we're not going to we're not going to do the thing where, you know, once you become famous with something like this, you know that we hide all the bad stuff and we just look like superheroes and all that, Instead of that, you're like, Hey, man. Which, of course, the title, right? And your book and everything. I mean, it's like God used us. He can use anybody out there. And I just loved that. And even, of course, during the trial, the the, you know, the difficulty that you all had as as a married couple, the world's got its spotlight on you. You're constantly having to deal with this. You know, Denise is just want to have life back home in your community. I mean, all of that comes through and people don't realize this was, what was it, nine years, a nine year battle? 

Joe Kennedy [00:11:14] Yeah, it took me it took eight years in the court system in nine football seasons to get me back out onto the field. So it was a long, long. 

Rick Green [00:11:23] That that just the grace of God even, you know, for you guys to endure that, especially like you even, you know, make it clear in the movie, you know, you would have never thought God would have used you for this type of battle. And so then, okay, great, fine, God use me, but you have to drag me through the cold for nine years, right? 

Joe Kennedy [00:11:40] You just like, we had some we had some conversations and he's probably up there laughing and I didn't see the big picture because only thing I was asking for was to be reinstated and to be able to pray after a football game. That's not a huge loss. That's not even newsworthy. That's that's nothing. And God took it. And the American public in their prayers, took it to a whole new level where it ended up being a religious liberty for all of America. I mean, they man, who would ever thought that was going to happen? 

Rick Green [00:12:11] Yeah. Yeah. Even I, I think. Well, and people are just now finding out which is one of the cool things about the movie. I love the way they did with Billy Robertson at the end to tell the story. You know, the was like, my gosh, I loved it because, you know, I just did like you and I talked about it before. I had to re redo part of our biblical citizenship class because this changes all of the religious liberty cases and what we teach in that class. And so I filmed this interview with Kelly. You know, walking through all this, we got like this 15 minute thing that we added to to biblical citizenship. And as course, Kelly and we as lawyers talking about all the lawyer stuff, right? And and going through all of that. And it is like for Willie Robertson to explain essentially from a duck one I think he's standing in a in a pond somewhere anyway, for him to explain in just like two minutes, he takes all of the legal mumbo jumbo and just distills it down. And in two minutes, you understand, wow, this is game changer. 

Joe Kennedy [00:13:03] If it was me trying to tell that story or Kelly, man, I would have I would have fallen asleep if Kelly would have told it. I love him to death. He is the lawyer through and through. 

Rick Green [00:13:13] Well, and I know we got some listeners maybe that they haven't heard your story yet and they're going, What are these guys talking about? We're going have a link today at our website for the longer interview we did with Joe months ago and the one we did with Kelly just a few weeks back. But but, Joe, just just to say, you know, I love how the movie shows that you were not trying to seek a spotlight. You were literally just trying to live up to your deal with God of saying, I'm going to thank you after every game. And that came through in the movie. I thought the guy that played you, I think it's Eric. Is it close? 

Joe Kennedy [00:13:45] Eric Close. 

Rick Green [00:13:45] Yeah. Yeah. I remember watching him in Nashville and some other stuff. I mean, it was so professional. I mean, all the actors are so good. None of the cheese factor was so, so good. But that part really came through too, was that, Hey, you were just trying. You didn't want to go coach even. It was like, God just kept hitting you over the head to even become a coach. So I was like. 

Joe Kennedy [00:14:03] Yeah, it was terrible. I don't know anything about football. I was like, Man, if you want me to be a wrestling coach or something, we talk. But I don't know anything about football. There's no X's and O's in this head. So yeah, I do See, that's just a sense of humor that and you know, there are no coincidences in the world. It's there. There's something going on out there. 

Rick Green [00:14:25] Yeah. It's almost like and you're going to probably think I'm overdoing it here, but I mean, in the same way and maybe because I might. We also just watched this thing about King David, but the way he plucks King David out of that Shepard's field to to change the world and to set in motion an incredible trajectory is like he knew this Supreme Court case a decade later, after you fulfilled your promises to him, that he would use you to change America, to change, I mean, literally restore the First Amendment of the Constitution. And I can't say that with enough. Like you can't overplay that hand. You you restored freedom of religion in this country. God restore every religion in this country using your story. 

Rick Green [00:15:08] Yeah. You said it. If he could use me, he could use anybody. Yeah. Props to him. 

Rick Green [00:15:15] Hey, man. Are you getting to coach right now? You're back on the field, right? You. You should be right in the middle of football. 

Joe Kennedy [00:15:21] Yeah, I know. Last season, when I went back and stepped on the field, they did not make it fine. And, it was better after the first game that I just walked away on my own terms, though. My wife and I, we resigned. We moved back here to Florida, take care of her dad. And life has just been good. And I let everybody heal and move on with their. 

Rick Green [00:15:44] Man and. 

Joe Kennedy [00:15:45] Let the team focus on football instead of any distractions. 

Rick Green [00:15:49] That makes sense. Makes total sense. And honestly, I mean, I'm sitting here thinking as somebody that's always putting on events and trying to get people engaged in the in the political struggle of our nation. I'm like, okay, that means that means coaches available. So so are you getting to go out and share your story and and encourage people to be involved? Or are you doing some of that? Can people book you to speaker? You know, can we do that? 

Joe Kennedy [00:16:10] Absolutely. Yeah. That you could go to. What is a coachjoekennedy.com the most original website you could possibly imagine And yeah that's all I've been doing is going around the country and encouraging people to stand up for their rights as Americans. And and you know me, I'm not a big preachy guy. I don't know the Bible well or anything, but man, I so believe in religious liberty and the freedoms Americans need to exercise, not just take for granted, but exercise those rights especially to get out and vote, especially this season. Man, this is a perfect time for people to stand up and do what's right. 

Rick Green [00:16:48] Amen. Amen. You know, Joe, and I'm sure you feel this when you're out there talking to groups, but that for such a time as this, your authenticity is actually what will cause more people to listen than, you know, they don't want. The slick perfect recites everything, party speeches, kind of stuff. It's like your ability to just get up and tell your story, I would think right now hits better, hits harder than than anything else. I think, you know, for such a time as this that you are free to do that. The God's positioned you right now not only for this election and this season, but honestly, I mean, I'm one of these guys that thinks we're you know, it's going to be a ten, 15 year battle here to to really make this stuff stick and to retill the ground in America. So, man, I'm thrilled you're going to be on the front lines of doing that. 

Rick Green [00:17:34] Absolutely. You nailed. And that's what I want to be. I will always want to be available and just have God to use me. It's I don't know what my next calling is. It was called to be our coach. It was called for me to be a marine, a husband and father. And now I have no idea what God has next. So I'm just being available that to use me in any way, shape or form He wants me to. 

Rick Green [00:17:58] That's one of the things I didn't know about you, by the way, was I knew you. You were a marine. Had no idea you had, what was it, a 20 year career, 25 year career. And then this coaches years young. Yes. I don't know. In my mind it was just like, okay, did did did the Marines like eight years or whatever. And then, you know, he's been a coach for 20 years and, you know, like football expert, I just I don't know. I had no idea how God, you're so much better the story so much better than I had imagined. 

Rick Green [00:18:24] That's what that's what we really wanted to do. We wanted to tell the whole entire story. Everybody sees the headlines or some, you know, the the quick blog on social media, but they don't really hear of the back story and understand anything. So even the naysayers that are out there was like, he did it for this reason. This should show them exactly who are they to judge me after this movie and they still aid me, So be it. But at least know the story. 

Rick Green [00:18:50] Amen. Amen. What is the website we need to send people to to learn more about the movie? Is it coachjoekennedy.com from there they can also do it as well the movie. 

Joe Kennedy [00:19:00] Yeah the movie itself we have links on coachJoekennedy.com but also averageJoemovie.com and other okay very original title I'm not very creative in those areas. 

Rick Green [00:19:14] You cracked me up man. I guess you're the kind of guy what has been time with this is awesome. Totally awesome. 

Joe Kennedy [00:19:20] It'll be nationwide, which really blew my mind. I started looking at some of the places I used to live across the United States, and it is playing in almost all the states everywhere. So you could put in your zip code and find out when it's playing, where it's playing. And I can't stress enough how important it is for people to go out and see the movie. We just had Reagan come out ad Forge God's Not Dead coming out this week. So we need to really support these these films and get our messages across and make a real noise in Hollywood that you don't have to be this super gazillion, you know, million dollar, gazillion dollar budget. It could be just the everyday stories of everyday Americans that that our energy. Gaining and inspiring. And when you walk away, you actually feel good about it and and feel like you could take on the world. I always say it's like the Rocky movie. When I got out of Rocky Men, I felt like, Man, who else have I am ready to go? That's what I really want people to do. 

Rick Green [00:20:22] You do. You do. I'm telling you, my kids were like, standing on their feet at the end of the movie going, What's our fight? Where do we go? Where do we get involved, man? What? Where do we take our stand? And that's that's exactly what you exactly what you want, man. I love it. And just to reiterate what you were saying, because, you know, the more people that go, the more theaters will either keep it or even add. They'll add theaters if there's a big enough showing. So we want to we want to just flood the movie theaters. 

Joe Kennedy [00:20:45] Yeah, bring your churches, bring your friends, family. It's a great it's obviously a good thing for a date night with because there's a lot of I hate to say it like chick flick parts to the movie and we really wanted to exemplify my wife and get that love story. So not to get too cheesy, but it was it was very much a love story of my love for the country, for my wife and God. And yeah, I wanted to tell that story where it touches people's hearts, not just. You know, something entertaining. But really people feel it and have a good laugh, have a good cry, whatever emotions that they feel. I really want them to go through the roller coaster on this. 

Rick Green [00:21:25] They will and they will. I'm telling you, this is this is so well done. And you're right. Great date night. In fact, it's more of a it's exactly it's more of much more of a love story than a legal story or political story or any of those things. It's it's real life, folks. You've got to go see it. Absolutely. CoachJoeKennedy.com website coach Joekennedy.com get his book there book him to speak Let's spread the news because most people, Joe they don't know the jail cells been unlocked but they haven't walked out yet. They're not actually living out these freedoms and we want them to know. 

Joe Kennedy [00:21:54] So absolutely. 

Joe Kennedy [00:21:54] Man you're a warrior. 

Joe Kennedy [00:21:56] Thank you, brother. 

Rick Green [00:21:57] I appreciate you, brother. I look forward to locking shields with you for years to come. 

Joe Kennedy [00:22:01] A man to that dude. I can't wait. Do we get together because we're going to have a lot of fun? 

Rick Green [00:22:06] Sounds good. Sounds good. All right, folks, stay with us. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Break [00:22:10]  

Rick Green [00:23:19] Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Joe Kennedy for being with us. Like you were saying, Tim, you've been with him at a bunch of events. Too bad he's just the real deal. You know, he's just it's just I love how God has used him and right guy at the right time. He stayed humble and man, I'm hoping I'm hoping he just has a great platform out there and can go out and talk all over the country and let people know that that they have this freedom. Right. We had, Kelly, what, two weeks ago, three weeks ago, talking about we got to we got to make sure people know that this has happened. 

Tim Barton [00:23:47] Well, and people can hear just listening to this interview as he identified, he's just an average Joe. He's just a normal guy. When I was with him just a couple of weekends ago at a conference, he was sharing part of his testimony. And at one point he got some tears in his eyes. And when he came out backstage, we were in the green room together and he said, I can't believe I cried. What kind of Marine am I? And, you know, just the still this is normal guy who is is being being moved by what God is is doing in in through his life, their testimony, how God brought redemption. So many areas for him but still want to be marine strong. You know, just these things that I've seen in him behind the scenes that is absolutely revealing of how he's just a normal guy. But one of the things, again, it reminds me of, as we said, scripture so often, God shows the unlikely and use them in an absolutely life changing, altering, phenomenal ways, whether whether it be a Gideon right who is in the threshing floor and you know he's sifting wheat and the angel comes in mighty man is like, who are you talking to? It's just me here. There's so many moments where God shows people that wasn't necessarily who we might have looked and gone, that's the guy we should use. But God knew that there needed to be someone that had the courage, the fortitude, the strength, the internal character strength to say, I know what the right thing is and I'm going to do the right thing regardless of the consequences that that was going to have, that military backing, that that that marine tough that when you're going to have to go for seven and a half, eight and a half years before you finally get to the end of this legal battle and journey. And for him, he was just trying to win a case. He had no idea that God had such bigger plans and that God was going to take this case. And the lemon decision when it first came down in 1971, the Lemon v Kurtzman decision from 1971 until 2022 and was overturned for 51 years. It was cited over 7000 times in courts to strike down religious activity, religious freedom, religious liberty. And all of those cases have now been overturned. And there's opportunity to go forward to restore freedom, liberty and expression in this nation again. And all things to a man, an average Joe, who was willing to take a stand. 

Rick Green [00:26:20] And hopefully Tim encourages other people to do the same, right? 

Tim Barton [00:26:23] Absolutely. 

Rick Green [00:26:24] What's the next battle? Right. What's the next victory that is right around the corner that Joe Kennedy can encourage and inspire people to be a part of in the coming months and years. Go see it, folks. You're going to love it. Average Joe, get the book as well. Book Joe in to come speak and we'll get him back on the program as well. Thanks so much for listening to The WallBuilders Show.