Rick Green

Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the WallBuilders Show and it's Convention Week for the Republicans in Wisconsin. It'll be Convention Week for the Democrats another month away in Chicago. So a lot happening across the nation. Of course, we're always going to bring you a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective on these things. I'm Rick Green here with David and Tim Barton, and David is actually there at the convention. Tim and I are running around the country trying to get more people involved in all that's going on and David's literally been on the floor. When you see those images at the Republican convention and you see that big group of cowboy hats, yep, David's right there in the middle of them.

Texas, well represented with the cowboy hats

David Barton

David yeah, it's, it's kind of fun and Texas has its own identity. Not that anyone would not know that. I you know, Texas. You can't tell a Texan when he's in the room, or, and of course the reply is, well, you can't tell Texan anything that's pretty accurate. So yeah, it's, it's fun on the floor. Uh, the other set of cowboy hats is being worn by Montana and Wyoming, as can be understood, but they don't have the uniform like we do. We've got the uniform, so we're real easily identifiable.

Plus, we're the second biggest delegation. Yeah, I was going to say there's like four people from Wyoming and two from. Montana and then 150. No, I think they have what 20 or 30, I guess, or something like that. But yeah, Texas stands out.

let's just say yeah, we've got 100. California has 169, and I think we have 165. So even though California's got a whole lot more congressional seats like 55 congressional seats we've only got 38, Texas is so much more Republican that you get extra points for how many statewide elected officials you have that are Republican. And of course, California doesn't have any statewide elected Republican officials, so they don't get near as many points as we do. Even though their population is greater. We contribute more to Republican circles, or almost as much as California does. They do have a number of congressmen that come out of there. So that's why we're such a big delegation, right behind California, even though population we are not.

Rick Green

Well, you know, yesterday we talked a little bit about the response to JD Vance as the vice presidential name from Donald Trump, and just how things were going in terms of sort of the tone and attitude at the at the convention. You know, I'm not obviously not there, but what I'm hearing on the ground here in Indiana, people are starting to catch some of the momentum, they're starting to get excited about, you know, sort of knowing who to who to work for and root for what. What is your takeaway now that you have two or three days? Well, of course you've been there longer because you were there for the platform committee last week, so you've got a whole week under your belt there in Wisconsin.

David Barton

Yeah, and you know, JD Vance is not much talked about today because that's kind of past, that's over, that's done with, that's. That's different news. What's happened since then is kind of getting the attention and what's happened since then is, unlike a lot of Republican conventions, they are showing a lot of really diverse groups and diverse constituencies joining together behind Republicans. For example, they had a lady who spoke to the convention said you know, I voted for Biden last time, but here's why I'm voting Republican this time. And they had a police chief that, for example, had the mayor of Dallas who had been Democrat all his life, and when Black Lives Matter stuff came up and they told him don't enforce the law and don't fund the police, he went crazy and said no way. So he became a Republican. And so it's based on this that, even though there's a lot of differences, you know one of the— oh, they even had the Teamsters guy, didn't they?

Rick Green

— oh, they even had the Teamsters guy, didn't they? So unions are almost always Democrat, other than, like police unions. Sometimes those will be Republican, but this was the Teamsters. So there's some people speaking at the Republican convention.

I think the guy even said he's the first Teamsters guy to speak at the Republican Convention in some years. And you know, it's interesting because we all have some. I'm going to have a lot of differences with Teamsters Union just because I think that free market is the right way to go and I think coercion, whether it's by the employer or by the employee, is a bad deal. And I take that back to Matthew 20. So, looking at that, the employer and employee have the freedom to negotiate their own contract. So, looking at that, the employer and employee have the freedom to negotiate their own contract. And, as Jesus did in that parable, you can have several people working for you and each can be paid differently if you agree to that. And so the teamsters would never allow that.

But what I agreed with, particularly with them, was the fact that so much of American business is driven only by a love of money, whether it be Amazon or anything else. They don't care about workers, they don't care about nations. They don't care about workers, they don't care about nations, they don't care about morals. Jesus said the love of money is the root of all kinds of evils and it comes from that. And so he was really onto these big corporations and how really immoral in so many areas they are. But for him it was the teamsters and unions, and so you know, here's union folks, and we've already seen the police unions lining behind Trump. So you're seeing, you're seeing all these different speakers coming in that are the typical speakers, that aren't the kind that you would normally have at a republic convention, which is kind of showing that there's a whole lot of diversity out there and people are starting to coalesce around ideas, which is really good.

Tim Barton

Well, that's you. I think it's one of the things we've talked about this off air we talked about earlier in the week where, even on it was a Monday night, they closed with a Sikh prayer. And you know JD Vance's wife, I think, hindu background, he is Catholic which you know. That could be a very interesting relationship from a faith perspective, which you know, for everybody listening, one of the many reasons that we ought to be praying for our leaders and those in authority. They all come to know God and you know, obviously, for the Biden team and Kamala Harris and everybody, we should be praying for those people to come to know Jesus, come together, have that biblical idea or that revelation of Jesus, that standard, et cetera. But one of the things that you and I talked about is that you thought that was a very intentional move for them to show that everybody's welcoming the Republican Party. And, of course, the thing we have to be careful of is that we're not compromising on basic standards of what the Republican Party is supposed to be about, going back to this notion from the signers of the Declaration, where they knew there was a God and God gives us rights and the governor's job is to protect those rights. When you start changing the dynamic of is there a God and, if so, whose God is it? And there are different gods, but we all have this God and so this idea of having these different faiths that are part of it. If we don't have the understanding of a foundation of who we talk when we say God we're talking, have the understanding of a foundation of who we talk when we say God we're talking about the creator of the world, the governor of the universe, if we don't have some of this core thought locked in place, then it really can change the future dynamic understanding of where do those rights come from? How does that work?

I think it was Monday night when I think it was Eric Trunp, that he was on some news outlets and interviews and he was saying that you know, my dad's never really been pro-life, right, he's never really been traditional marriage, and that's why my wife running the RNC you know she has those same views.

And he did not have to say that, right, he didn't have to be that outspoken and aggressive about it, other than maybe he wanted people to know that this is something. It's open, right, we're embracing everybody and I understand, on some level, the political strategy of embracing everybody, but also where we can't compromise on the core values of what Republicans should be or what the conservative party should be. And if we do that and right, the question is what are we trying to conserve? If we're not trying to conserve biblical traditional values, then what are we conserving? We're conserving the economy. Well, the Bible tells us right, you seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and then everything else gets added, that that righteousness exalts a nation. And so, if we're not careful, we're going to compromise the basic things that have allowed us to succeed as a nation in the effort to try to be so inclusive that we therefore have nothing left to stand for.

Rick Green

Yeah, I was thinking about, even with the Teamsters and some of these other people that have endorsed and there's been a little uproar about some of them I think it was Ronald Reagan that said in the 80 campaign I can't remember who it was that endorsed him, but there were questions about it and he said well, they endorsed me.

That doesn't mean I endorse everything they're doing. Right, and I think that's a little bit of the attitude here is hey, these are all people that are endorsing Trump and endorsing anti-Marxism and stopping the communists from taking over the country. It doesn't mean that they endorse everything that Republicans stand for and it certainly doesn't mean that Republicans endorse everything they stand for. So I think we can go into it with that attitude, with absolutely a sharp eye to what you're saying, Tim, which is but if we have to water down everything to get them to come on board, that's where the problem occurs. If they're coming on board because they know we're the best chance of fixing the nation and getting back on track, then great, we welcome them. But if it requires us to become a different party and start standing for things that we don't believe in, that's where we're in trouble.

Tim Barton

Yeah, and that's where I think. Yesterday we saw a lot of speakers, whether it be a Nikki Haley or Rhonda Sanders or some noted names. Sarah Huckabee Sanders? There are people there that were making the case of why Trump is the obvious best choice, and I don't think you have to convince us that there's only two options it's Joe Biden or Donald Trump. There's no question in my mind, but I think there is a fine line that if they're not careful on the Trump campaign, that in their effort to expand the boundaries, you risk potentially driving off people of faith if you compromise on basic moral values, and it could be something that we've seen.

It said that Democrats have taken the black vote for granted for way too long. Then they got all these promises and they don't deliver. I think it could be said to some extent on people of faith with Republicans and, of course, democrats always said, well, where are these black voters going to go? Right, they're not going to go Republican. Well, I don't think as Christians. I mean, the values of the Democrat platform are not supportive of the Bible, and so it's something that I don't think we're going to see this mass exodus of Christians going and voting Democrat, but I think it's possible that you could see some not staying home, which, of course, and we would argue, is not the correct answer either. And that's what some of what we heard right from Nikki Haley and DeSantis and Sarah Huffabee, sanders and so many of the noted speakers from yesterday and dad, you were there, what was kind of your thoughts, and so what was the impression from the community yesterday?

David Barton

Yeah, Just even kind of picking up with some of the conversation we're having before I move on to that is, one of the things that we've warned them about is look, you can't, by going after 1% or 2% on the fringe, you can't afford to lose 10% or 12% of your base and you can't reach out in ways that make your base feel insecure and make them feel like you've left the values and compromised. And what do you get if you gain 1% or 2% that you've never had before and lose 10% or 12% you've always had. And so that's the tight line they have to walk and that's what we warned them about. But at the same time, I was doing an interview with Politico and talking to them said look, Trump's got his values and he's got his priorities. He's listed the 20 action items in the platform. He wants 57 things that he intends to do.

Those are out there and they're not what we would necessarily call things that might reflect the religious right, but at the same time, there's nothing there that's hostile to it. It's I'm going after crime, going after border, going after Russia. You know all the stuff there. I agree with all that. I want to see some stuff done with life and with gender stuff and with parents and et cetera, and that may or may not be done. But the deal is, if Biden's there, it's all going to get done on the wrong side, it may not all get done under Trump, but we will get the other stuff done. And so I was telling Politico look, Republicans, we still have our same values. This is in our platform, this is what we ride every four years and we're still pro-life, we're still pro-family. We still have that. There's only two genders. So we got that but the other thing I would say about the convention that I think is really significant Let me also say that if you're saying that to Politico, that's what's been in the platform traditionally up until they replaced the platform with Trump's campaign commitment and promises right, so that is where there could be a slight difference is that those aren't still on the platform. But, to your point, that is still what the vast majority of Republicans believe and that's the traditional values that conservatives have been trying to conserve for so many decades.

David Barton

And I think significant with that was when the national platform came out and appeared to be weaker in those areas, the state Republican Party started saying, well, here's our platform, here's what we say on life, here's what we say on Israel, here's what we say on marriage. And so you know, we've had the state saying hey, here's where we are. And I think, even with the issue of life, even if Trump is weaker on life, if you look at what he did in the first four years, those were the strongest actions we have of any president on pro-life stuff.

Tim Barton

Did you mean the people that he appointed and, like the judges, the decisions they made? Is that what you mean by what he did?

David Barton

He's the only president to ever appear at the National March for Life. What he did with judges, what he did with giving free reign to people like Ben Carson and others to do all the pro-life stuff they want he didn't step on any of that. He didn't step on any of that. He didn't say hey, I'm not as pro-life as you guys are, so I want you all to back off. And that's the other thing I thought, even with that Sikh prayer, you know the Sikh prayer and that's you know, saying hey, we accept some differences. But what he also did and I find this different from previous conventions you had a Catholic priest who got up there and just really hit Jesus Christ everywhere and just really forceful, he was abusing Jesus. What?

Tim Barton

he was abusing Jesus. What? He was hitting Jesus.

David Barton

That's right, he had owned Jesus Christ. So how do I say that, where you won't twist that.

Tim Barton

He talked about Jesus a lot in the prayer no.

David Barton

He hammered about Jesus to the crowd.

So that's you know, I won't say he hammered, owned Jesus. He hammered about Jesus to the crowd. So that's you know. I won't say he hammered, oh Jesus, he hammered about Jesus. So he was very strong.

And then Neil Jackson was a pastor from North Carolina and he got up and man, his closing prayer was an altar call. It was there is no other name given among heaven whereby men can be saved, and this is the highest name above everything. And in previous conventions they would have had those guys tone it down and just say we pray in the Father's name, amen. But there was no toning down of Jesus on any of these guys. There was no making them back off.

So what I found is that that attitude I found that to be a really healthy attitude, that they're not trying to squish Christians down to make all religions equal. You know the 3% religion and the 82% religion. We're going to make you all equal by making the compromise and elevating one and lowering the other. We're going to meet at 42% or whatever. They didn't do that to the Christians. They gave them full reign and protected them in doing so. Let them be as evangelical or as Catholic or as Protestant as they wanted to be, and that is much closer to freedom of religion than trying to make everybody even. So I thought that was a really healthy perspective. That they did in the campaign is they didn't do anything to squelch the overt Christian nature of those prayers.

Rick Green

Well, David, that does sound like an improvement then, because my understanding is and I don't remember this, but I heard somebody say today that Harmey Dillon did a Sikh prayer in 2016 as well, but that would have been when they were toning down the Christian prayers but then allowing for that kind of stuff and, of course, free speech, freedom of religion, all that good stuff. But it sounds like, even though she did the Sikh prayer again this year, that the Christians were more free to pray as they wanted to pray, which would be an improvement. And, of course, we have to remind everybody a political party is not a church. Right, you have to team up with people that don't believe like you in order to win and, while we want to influence it with our faith and with our belief as much as possible, we don't have a majority of the country that is going to go show up, and if all evangelical Christians would go show up and vote, we probably wouldn't have to team up with anybody else. We could probably win everything. But because they don't, we do have to team up with some of these folks and they do share a desire to stop the Marxism and to stop a lot of the you know, the gender modification, a lot of the things that are the real battles right now to stop the deep state, to stop a lot of these things. So you know, it's, it's, you know.

I almost want to say, oh, you know what? We can't team up with Stalin to defeat Hitler. Why? Why he's a communist. We can't work with him. Uh, we did. We had to. It was necessary to defeat the greater evil, and that's a little bit of what's going on here from my perspective. You're on the ground. You know better than us what's happening there, but I would think that's a little bit of the attitude as well. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show.

Break

Rick Green

Welcome back to the Wall Builder Show. Thanks for staying, staying with us. It's convention week for the republicans. In another month it'll be democrat convention week and, even though there's some pretty cool things for us to talk about with the republicans, guys, I think in a month when the democrats gather in Chicago, it's going to be break out the popcorn time and there's going to be some crazy stuff happening, so we're going to have a lot to cover from their convention as well. Um, I was just talking to the kids at Patriotot Academy, guys. I'm in Indiana for the Midwest Patriot Academy and I was telling them you know, if you watch the Republican convention, there does appear to be a significant amount of unity. There's not a broker convention, there's not a split convention kind of a thing, even though, of course, there's differences. I don't think the Democrats are going to have the same kind of unity at their convention. What do you guys think?

David Barton

I think so, but let me add something else that I find unique about this, because I've been to a bunch of them.

Tim Barton

They're giving Like a Democrat convention. I just want to clarify.

David Barton

Oh, I have been and I didn't like any of them, and so yeah. Yeah, exactly. Come on, man, follow my thought here. Do I have to say everything I'm thinking? Can't you just read my thoughts?

David Barton

 Give context to the words you're using.

Man, you guys are so picky. So, going back to Republican convention before we shift to Republican convention, what I have been amazed with is how many of the speakers have openly criticized Trump and that they had very negative things and it was not closely controlled. They didn't demand that you modify your speech to be only positive. I mean, they have genuinely allowed freedom of speech. And so Nikki Haley, she had plenty of criticism about Trump but she supported Trump. So I've been surprised that you know even the union guy for the Teamsters there was things he didn't agree with the Republicans at all and they let him say those things and I thought that was a really healthy atmosphere. 

Tim Barton

Well and Dad, too, just for clarification, because I didn't watch all the speeches. I watched some, but what I saw from Nikki Haley she said I certainly didn't agree with Trump and you don't have to agree with somebody all the time to support them or vote for them and I definitely haven't agreed with Trump all the time, but I am supporting him. And so I didn't hear her name, specific grievances or specific issues that she thinks.

Well, I think he's totally wrong on this issue, and here's why I think he's wrong enough to say I'm not going to give the left, who I disagree with, even more talking points against Donald Trump that they can use in other of their shows or whatever propaganda they're going to run from this. And so, even though people have acknowledged they disagreed with Trump and maybe a general idea or a general topic, they haven't gotten to the specifics of why they thought he was wrong on areas, necessarily, unless they then came back and said but now I've changed my mind and realized he's correct. So and I'm saying that asking a little bit, because you've been there, you've seen more and heard more than I have, but what I've seen is a more generalized. I disagreed with him, but he is absolutely the right man for the job, not getting into the nitpicky about the things they don't like about his policy positions, etc. Have you seen something different?

David Barton

Well, no, it's not that they go through a litany of everything they disagree with. They're very open that they don't agree with them and everything, and some of them have been very public about what they don't agree with. And you know, even with the union stuff, there's a lot of stuff they don't agree with, but at the same time, unlike previous conventions, they've not been shut down on acknowledging the fact because the others is like we have to have a show that we're all together and we all believe the same thing, and that's just not what this one is. They've had a lot of differences here and a lot of different approaches, but they all reach the same conclusion and that is this is a guy that can help fix a whole lot of the problems we're all suffering from, and we'll all have more freedoms to do part of the things we want to do if we can get the federal government not weaponized, coming after all of us.

Tim Barton

And I do think that's important because I think it's where a lot of us are. It's probably where a lot of the American people are. Rick, before going to the break, as you were talking about in a president, you're not looking for a spiritual leader per se, and I think there are some people out there who genuinely are viewing Trump almost as a savior instead of recognizing you know, God made three different institutions, God made the family, God made government, God made the church and God gave them all different roles and functions, and the role of the government is not necessarily to be the spiritual leader, although they should be the enforcer, the one that holds a standard of morality, right and wrong, which should be clearly identified and taught by the church.

David Barton

You know, one of the things I've been telling people here at the convention is look, we're not electing King David. This is not going to be the great worshiper, the great guy that humbles himself before God, and the great guy this is Nebuchadnezzar. And Nebuchadnezzar is the guy who can destroy the enemies. Now remember, nebuchadnezzar was so arrogant. He actually erected a golden pillar to himself and said everybody's going to worship me. Now I don't think Trump's there at all and I think what's happened with the assassination has humbled him a lot. But this is a choice between a really hard, serious leader who can crush some enemies on the outside, whether it be China or anything else. This is not King David just being elected here. This is a Nebuchadnezzar.

Tim Barton

Well, and let me pause for a second, because even if it was King David, you mean the murderer, the adulterer, you mean the guy who was a terrible father who, like Amnon, is the one who had a son who sexually assaults his sister. David does nothing. Absalom sees what Amnon did to the sister and Absalom's like this guy is terrible. Absalom kills Amnon. David does nothing. Absalom I mean, like you go through David's family life. It is one of the most drama-oriented. This would be one of those weird HBO kind of family drama TV shows you're following them through. But the point is that even when people think King David, they often think of these biblical leaders as being far more godly than they often were. The biblical leaders were people who knew God, who genuinely loved God and, most of the time, followed God. But if we even back up, dad, when you go back to the 2016 election, the comparison we were often making between Hillary and Trump was a comparison that Trump was like a Samson and Hillary was like a Jezebel, and Samson didn't do great following the things of God, but he fought for the people of God and Jezebel meaning Hillary. Jezebel hated the people of God and she was always against the things of God, and that was a really interesting comparison. I do wonder now if we were looking at a Joe Biden on this biblical scale, who might that be on a biblical scale? And this could be way off. I do wonder if this is maybe like a Saul in the old, like end of his life days, where Saul's like I don't know what to do. I'm going to go find this witch you can call up Samuel. Right Prophet is already dead. I need some help. I do wonder who King or President Biden might be in that biblical scenario.

But certainly the main point I wanted to emphasize is, if you're looking at the different institutions God made and you're looking at the president, the president's not supposed to be the pastor. That's never what their gifting and their anointing was. And if people are looking to him to be the one to restore righteousness, you've misunderstood what that role is and I think there's a lot of people that are not looking to the institution of the church to be the church in the way it should be. If we're gonna see righteousness restored, it's gotta be the role of the church stepping forward. Righteousness restored it's got to be the role of the church stepping forward. Donald Trump as president all he can do is slow down the decay. If the church doesn't step up, then we're not going to see righteousness restored. And the founding father said religion and morality that is the most important thing, the foundation for success, for the future of our nation.

Rick Green

Well, Tim, I think I know who Joe Biden is. So I remember Joe Ash, the kind of child king that was protected by the ant I think Biden is. What was it? I never remember how to say his name, Ahaziah, the one that his mama was, you know, the pagan mother Ahaziah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so Joe.

Biden's kind of like Ahaziah and is the is the mother that's trying to, you know, make everything, ok, athaliah, yeah, athaliah. There we go. That's the only one. I can think of More on that when we have more time, but we're out of time for today. Well, be sure to tune in throughout the week. We'll keep bringing you some great updates from what's going on in Wisconsin and around the world, and we sure appreciate you listening. But we also encourage you to share the program. Help us spread the word. Go to wallbuilders.show today to get some of the programs from the last week or two, if you missed them, and to share those links with your friends and family. You've been listening to the WallBuilder Show.