Rick Green

Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. This is the Wall Builders Show, where we take on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach, here with David Barton, America's premier historian and the founder of Wall Builders. Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of Wall Builders, and a room full of patriots that have been learning to defend themselves at the Patriot Academy campus doing constitutional defense. So thank you all to you for joining us, and we're going to do like we did yesterday and have the chance to take some live audience questions. I don't know about you guys, but I was thinking after that yesterday, first time we've been doing this almost 20 years, 16 years, whatever it is that's the first time we got to do that with a live audience like that. So I thought that was pretty fun. But I do want to say both to our live audience, who's been enjoying the campus, and to our listening audience, a big thank you to David and Cheryl Barton, because this campus would not exist. These guys were the ones that came alongside Karen and me all those years ago when we didn't have anything, and they financially supported us, emotionally supported us, spiritually supported us. They've been mentoring us for that long. We're still thick-headed, he's still trying to get me to learn, but, um, we seriously would not be sitting here on this campus and all these cool things happening if y'all hadn't sown those seeds into us and been willing to come alongside us. So, thank you, thanks for doing it, man. All right, so, all right, Tim.

We had all kinds of crazy things happening, even in the last 24 hours, and before we get questions from them, I got to get y'all's thoughts on this because I saw it this morning and I just had to laugh but also cry, because there's no limit to what people who have no sense of right and wrong are willing to do. The rules don't matter. So they're going to find ways around the constitution, around the law, and they're actually floating this morning the idea of a Biden Obama ticket that they would actually oh, listen to the, the verbal groans that came from the audience they're they're actually saying well, because it says in the 22nd Amendment, can be elected twice to the president. If he was elected to vice president and then Biden steps down, then he could just move in to president. Now the 12th Amendment does say you can't run for vice president if you're constitutionally ineligible to be president.

But you know the wordsmiths here. These are the people that came up with. Depends on what the meaning of is is. So I mean, do you think they would actually go that far and try this, or do you think this is just a game to distract a little bit?

David Barton

I think it's a game. They'll push as far as they can, they'll come back here and settle on something less and people say, well, at least it's really more of a game, because anything they do is going to instantly be sued. It'll go to the court, it'll be on a fast track and that court, given what it is, is not going to give them what they want, and I imagine that even several liberals would vote against it as well. It's amazing how many times this court, both the liberals and conservatives, have been in unanimous decision on things that I would never have thought they were unanimous on. So, going back to what Breyer said, he said the freewheeling days of the court are over and this is a much more restrained court. So I don't think they can do anything except see what the reaction is, see what they get from their own people. I think they're looking for reaction from their own people as much as anything and see what people would put up with and then back off a whole lot and do something different.

Tim Barton

I think it says as much, too, about how desperate they are right because they recognize how much of a challenging situation they're in when you, you really have not had a president in any of our lifetimes. I mean maybe. I mean maybe carter, but nobody has been more disliked. I can't imagine right now I wasn't there for carter, so y'all might help me out on this. But I'm just saying 

Rick Green

come on, bro, I was eight so you remember?

Tim Barton

right's very similar actually, if you think about the hostages we still have American hostages that Hamas has Right. If you think about, you know just the inflation, the horrible economic situation, the lack of patriotism. It's very similar to the late 70s, yeah, but see the difference is that Carter was still for school prayer.

David Barton

He was still for so many things that were cultural and he was just incompetent. And so people really liked him and what they didn't like was his inability to handle things. And you know the rescue and blowing up the stuff in the desert and the helicopters going down All that worked to say you're incompetent. So it wasn't that he was a bad guy or dislikable or that he was widely polarized, because he wasn't. There was a lot of stuff that, culturally, democrats still believed in and didn't that day, and so there was not the weaponization or the polarization that now exists. He was just incompetent was really his problem.

Tim Barton

Just as a hypothetical, if let's say they do remove Biden somehow and have somebody else, how do we make sure that the narrative is that it wasn't just Biden the person, it was the policies, it was the administration, it's actually the people behind Biden the whole time. They're still going to be the ones calling the same shots, so the pain and the culture is going to be the same.

But how do you do that in the world of influence and media, and especially when the challenge is that for both sides the priority is winning right. I mean for sure we've seen it from many on Team Trump, they're willing to compromise on some basic, core, inalienable right kind of issues if they think it will help them win. And obviously on the Biden side, we've seen them lacking principle in many areas, even if it politically is advantageous to them. So I think the challenge is helping people move beyond what is the most politically expedient conversation of this guy's crazy right, he's only good between 2 and 4 pm and then not even really that good. Then right, moving beyond there, as you said, to the policies, because even if you had a competent person it's the argument with socialism would be fine if we had the right people running it, right? Well, no, that's not the problem.

It's not you don't have good people running it, it's that the, the very system itself is what's so messed up, and I do think that's a challenge, because right now there's very few people talking about the Biden administration policies. They're just identifying this guy who clearly is somewhere in the dementia, Alzheimer’s, whatever realm. He's not competent and qualified to be the president of the United States. The 25th amendment should be invoked, there's no doubt, but they don't want to do it on their side unless they feel like they have somebody in the wings who is the replacement, who's going to be better? But how do we focus on those principles and identify well southern border policies, right, or military strength, et cetera. How do we highlight that?

I think it's going to be a lot of voices like us that are not going to Not just the campaign, but voices like us out there in the marketplace.

And right, even beyond the Sean Hannadies right, the Jesse Waters of the world, who are going to spend more time talking about how unqualified Biden is, how bad Hunter Biden is, which, although both of those are true, if you replace him with somebody that's not as bad as Hunter and more competent than Biden, but have the same policies, you're going to have the same results. That's right.

David Barton

The other thing that goes with it is we're now at a time where the because of our education system, we react to sound bites and we react to perceptions. There's not enough knowledge to make good decisions on, because nobody can really define what a president's supposed to do anymore.

They're supposed to fix every national problem that exists constitutional limits are only supposed to do 17 things, depending on how you read the constitution. So we're at a point where that 62 percent of the nation can't even name the three branches of government and you're choosing the national leader. So it's going to be soundbites and it's going to be how the soundbites come across. It's going to be what the memes look like, it's going to be what social media says. That's going to be the biggest influence on this thing, because even if it is a very incompetent person or if it's somebody like an Obama that constitutionally can't do it, they'll still buy into it because they know so little about the process and constitution. And we're just looking even last night.

New York Times article came out a couple of days ago said don't share your Christian values with me. And the article went through and said everything bad ever done in the name of Christianity and ignored everything good in the name of Christianity. And so she's working on sound bites on Christianity and that's what the New York times is putting out and that's what she put out. And so we need secular, atheist progressives because that's the only way to save the nation and there's going to be a ton of people that believe that because they know so little about history or Judeo-Christian values or anything else. So that's what we're going to be fighting with is perceptions that are not granted in reality, because education, pedagogy we don't think anymore, we learn, and learn means you just take whatever people tell you and repeat it back, and that's where we are. We'll forward all the things we get and put those out, but we're not thinking. 

Rick Green

And if they don't have that truth, that plumb line.

Then they hear all those lies. They don't know what to measure against. Well, speaking of soundbites, and since you mentioned Carter, probably one of the best soundbites ever was when Reagan said in the 80 debate you know, are you better off than you were four years ago, Trump resurrecting that now it would have 10 times the power right. Because, he's actually saying are you better off now than you were four years ago?

When I had led and, as we all know, it's not just the president doing these things, but it still works for that perception in those soundbites.

David Barton

 Well, that was one of the effective lines of the debate. When I left, inflation was 1.2%. It's now 9.2%. With you and that kind of comparison, people go, oh, that is a soundbite and that does work.

Rick Green

Yeah, it does, absolutely. Okay, let's go to questions from our audience. Rhett, you pick out whoever and we'll see where this goes. See what everybody wants to talk about.

Question

I'd like to hear a response from the panel of which of our rights do you think are most threatened? Would it be the right to bear arms, the right to due process? I know it's not a right, but the strength of our military that we're kind of at worse risk and which things in the next administration need to be worked on first.

Rick Green

So if you were the way I understand, the question is if you were advising the president or you were in that role. There's so many things you need to work on. Yeah, what do you prioritize? Is that fair? What do you go after first?

Tim Barton

I would say the most threatened rights not to be coy but are our inalienable rights, because we now have a growing political class that no longer believes in the God who gave us rights, right that they believe government is the solution, government's the savior, government's the one that should determine and dictate who can do what, and so we move from God-given rights to government-approved and government-appointed rights, and so I don't think it's a matter of which one they come for first.

I think if we don't return to the reality that our rights don't come from the government, they come from God, then all of them, it's just a domino. So it's not a matter of, well, this one's going to be here, but right, the first one falls, but with the fifth one, we're going to have for a while. No, I think, as soon as they start to fall, if there is no God, there are no God-given rights, and therefore it this is even one of the challenges with some of the people on team Trump is that they're trying to differentiate themselves by saying, well, we're not like them, we're more sane, but they're not recognizing God-given rights either in some of the very core, basic things, whether it be the idea of the right to life, or you can trickle down from that, because you have family and you have gender and things that are pretty basic that stem from this idea. There was a God who gave us life, but God also gave us genders. Right, God gave us a family and there's a makeup of a family, and it's better for kids growing up in those kinds of families.

They're ignoring so much of this because of what they believe to be the most politically beneficial for them, and so if we cannot return to the reality that our rights don't come from the government, they come from God, then I think it's only a matter of is it religious liberty? Is it the freedom of speech? Is it the Second Amendment Due process?

whatever it is,

Rick Green

 you're saying the philosophy itself is the bigger thing, and a president can do that right. In a presidential administration, the bully pulpit does have an impact on how people think. Look how fast Barack Obama was able to change opinions on a lot of issues just because he kept pounding at him when he had the bully pulpit.

David Barton

I think you go back to the philosophy on which America is founded. Declaration starts with 161 words. The first thing in the declaration is there is a Creator God and if you don't start with that, then man's in charge of everything. A creator God, and if you don't start with that, then man's in charge of everything. And with God at least there's some boundaries and you can't do this or certain things you can't cross. Certain things are wrong. Then after that comes inalienable rights. Then comes government protecting inalienable rights. So you start with God. Then, when you get to inalienable rights, Sam Adams listed the top four inalienable rights as life liberty he said property and he said self-defense.

Now the declaration Life liberty he said property and he said self-defense. Now the Declaration says the pursuit of happiness rather than property. That's because they didn't use property, because a lot of guys in the South saw slaves as property and if they put the word property in the Declaration it would appear to indicate slavery. So Sam Adams, who is an anti-slavery guy up north, can use the word property because it means property without slavery. So in the Declaration it's life liberty, pursuit of happiness. But life liberty, property and then self-defense. That's the order he put them in.

And I go back to life first, because if you are not alive, you can't enjoy any of the right you got, and your view of whether you take unborn life without due process. Because if you can take an unborn life that exists and you know this is human, there's no scientific equivocation on that, there's just philosophical equivocation. If you know it's human and you take a human life without due process, which is the constitutional part, now you've got a real problem. So even if a life was not the biggest issue for Trump, it's still the biggest issue to show me his worldview. So you got to start with God. Then you got to go to that inalienable right first, even if it's not a big issue in the campaign. I got to know where you are on that, because that also tells me how you're going to spend money. It tells me what you're going to do for nations, everything else.

If I know where you are on those two, 

Rick Green

Well, and even to the point of the bully pulpit and what a president can do, you know a lot of a were very upset about. But yet the bully pulpit that he has even now not president yet most watched man in the world and he's been arguing against the evil of abortion. He's been pointing out how bad abortion is. Now granted inconsistent because you got the exceptions, but he's still, you know, moving the dial.

Right, he's causing people to think about how bad this is, and I'll take 98%. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly 100% of the time, I'll take 98% versus no percent 

Rick Green

when most candidates shy away from it.

David Barton

Don't talk about it at all, man. And that was John Quincy Adams. You know I want to end slavery, but here's a seven year plan to end slavery. No, we want it now. And that's why he lost, because all the guys wanted it right now 100%, and they got 0% as a result. And so we go back to that thing where god says in exodus 23 and then in Deuteronomy 7, he says I'll only give it to you a little by little, I will not give it to you all at once. And that's what he said about inheriting the promised land is you don't get it all at once. You got to take it little by little and very. That's a hard thing for conservatives to do is make a transgenerational plan

Rick Green

It's hard for me with the campus out here I want it all overnight.

I'm praying for patience.

God won't hurry up and give it to me.

David Barton

But making a 30-year plan to change the culture nobody does that. We want to change it in the next election.

Tim Barton

No progressives do that. Oh, you're right, conservative progressives, that's right.

David Barton

Progressives do that we don't. We can learn from them on this. We can us.

Rick Green

Another question bud

Question

 Everybody in this room should read what single nonfiction book Bible excluded.

Tim Barton

I was about to be a really easy answer.

Rick Green

 What would be the one book that you, if you could only recommend one, might be the way to say it? If you could only recommend one nonfiction book other than the Bible, what would you recommend?

Tim Barton

The fact that we're down to one makes it challenging. Because it's now, what genre too right Like is it? Is it going to be like a mere Christianity by CS Lewis to understand more? Some foundations, because, without having a biblical worldview, to know how to apply the Bible to what we do, which, if you go back to the pilgrims, super easy example. The pilgrims were so fluent in the Bible that they shaped every part of their life based on what they learned from the Bible. And when they were doing things that didn't work and they went and re-examined, they realized, oh, we didn't apply this part correctly from the Bible, and they would find other Bible verses to give them guidance, to correct the areas where they had been wrong. And so I think sometimes something in the realm of worldview and apologetics would be really relevant to understand. But then it's hard to get away from some kind of history book.

Rick Green

Well, I'm going to be. I'm going to be a total suck up right now and say the American Story, because then I also get two books out of it and not just one, and because it gives you spiritual, philosophical, historical. You get all that Because when you tell the story of America, you can't stay away from the spiritual, you can't stay away from all of the principles, the philosophy that Tim was talking about earlier. So, um, and no kidding, I mean I would recommend that because it's the place that you can start to understand who we are as a nation. So I think if you're an American and you want to be a good citizen, you got to go back to the story itself, and there's been so many lies about who we are as a nation, about what actually happened. So I think what these guys are doing with the American story, which eventually is probably going to be 47 books by the time they get done, but I think we've got a good story of America.

I think that's kind of a. It's not all encompassing, but if I had to, I had to pick one and I get two out of it because it's a series. I would.

David Barton

I would take a different direction because the question I would have to know what level of knowledge you already have. Where are you with worldview? Because I think worldview is the biggest thing in worldview. I would say, ok, without the worldview you can't analyze government, you can't analyze life, you can't analyze anything else. So I would say, probably understanding the times or politics according to the Bible, because those are both really good at grounding worldview. But if you had a worldview let's say that we're talking to people who kind of understand a biblical worldview I would probably choose Locke's Two Treatises of Government, because I think that's the hardest book to understand out there. And I would choose that because it turns you into a thinker rather than a learner, and America's got too many learners, not enough thinkers. So when you get a guy who writes and references the Bible more than 1,400 times on how governments operate, that'll make you think. And then when you see the dude writing a sentence that's 278 words long, that'll really make you think it's like whoa this grade level Grammar rules were different. back then, Run on sentences. What is it? Ephesians, where Paul has seven verses in one sentence? It's kind of like that.

Rick Green

Which, by the way, that's not just David talking. When I went to work for David 20 years ago, that was one of the first books he gave me. It was Locks to Trees as a Government, then it was Defending the Declaration and then Systematic Theology. So, because that was basically the question, right, we went out to the ranch. It was OK, if you're going to go do this and be a part of what I'm doing, these are the things you need to be reading.

David Barton

So how did you handle Locks Two Treatises 

Rick Green

About one page a month.

That's how I handled it Still working on it. It's in the back, still working on it. I'm getting to the second treaty.

I think in the second 20 years of. But seriously it is. It is hard, honestly.

David Barton

It is.

Rick Green

And David always gave me a hard time If you watched our stuff for long, because we'd talk about the Federalist Papers and I'd be like David man, it's hard to get through the Federalist Papers and he'd always remind me yeah, Rick, I understand that was written for the average upstate New York farmer, so I understand why you're having trouble with it, with your law degree and all. Oh man, Let me take a break real quick, folks, we'll be right back. You're listening to the WallBuilder Show.

Break

Rick Green 

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on the WallBuilders Show. We are live from the Patriot Academy campus and we're taking questions from the audience. Next question Go for it.

Question

Regarding our biblical worldview. What should the United States position be on this war in Israel?

Rick Green

Okay, so the question is, and if I understand you right, regarding our biblical worldview, you mean, because of the foundation of our biblical worldview, and as we look through things now, today, through a biblical worldview, what should we be doing about Israel? Right?

Tim Barton

now, I think a lot of people misunderstand support for Israel with approval of all actions of Israel, which is already an important distinction. Right, I love America. I don't agree with all the political leaders we have in America, right? With that being said, I think the Bible is very clear in some of these areas and issues where, when God makes a covenant with Abraham and he says that I'm going to make a great nation out of you, and part of what he tells them is everyone that blesses you, I'll bless, everyone that curses you, I will curse.

Israel is the only one that's ever described as the apple of God's eye. I mean, if you go through over and over, you see these repeated references, and then there are people that think, well, yeah, but wait a second, it's Christians. Right, we have, we fulfilled that covenant and I would remind them, go read Romans 11, which says that we have not replaced Israel. They are the root of the tree and we've been grafted in to the promise that God has given to Israel.

So if you go through scripture, there's nowhere that I think you can identify that God's promise has been completely fulfilled with Israel and therefore it doesn't change our position that we should support Israel, and you could then have a conversation what does support actually look like? But if you have a sibling and you don't always get along and somebody comes and picks on your sibling, I mean I can just tell you who's side I'm gonna be on, right, because nobody's gonna find my brother more than I do, but no one will defend my brother more than I will. Right, and I think this is part of that dynamic as well, of what's our position. It doesn't mean we always agree with them, but as a Christian, I don't see anywhere in scripture that we've been given any kind of release from supporting Israel or being in the position that we can either be blessed by blessing them or be cursed by cursing them.

David Barton

Totally agree. That's a scriptural position. It doesn't change. That doesn't mean we support every single thing Israel does, but it does mean we support Israel. We will defend her right to exist.

And I will be very clear that I think the two-state solution is a bad solution biblically because you're giving away Israel's land. She's already a tiny nation from what she used to be. And you're giving away Israel's land. She's already a tiny nation from what she used to be and you're giving away strategic parts. It then becomes if you have that Palestinian state created there in the north part, then Israel's only nine miles wide and so how do you defend a nine-mile-wide stretch strategically from an army on both sides? It would be the end of Israel. So I think any two-state solution which Trump used to be, he's not now. He's a one-state solution. I think the Republican platform will be very clear on the one-state solution Israel's right to exist as that nation.

And people have seen what happened in Hamas and Gaza and it was so ironic to me that in the debate you had Biden who said Gaza has got to be totally destroyed and eliminated. Then why are you calling for a ceasefire? Because Israel is eliminating them right now. When did he say that In that little debate? You mean?

Tim Barton

it was after 9 pm. So I'm just saying Because he did contradict himself in that very moment, which you're pointing out. Right, it was a contradiction. His position and oftentimes, leftist liberal positions are contradictions. However, it's something that is ludicrous looking at what happened and instead of saying we are demanding Hamas release hostages, which there's even questions if they're still alive at this point.

Right Is that the reason they haven't released them, because they don't want to expose the dead bodies or bodies they don't have anymore, because whatever happened, right.

But instead of saying, as a leader of America, should you give us our people back or we will injure you, like, don't worry about them, right, we will injure you right now to save Americans, he is shown to be the exact opposite and he's the guy that just kind of licks his fingers, sticks it in the air and whatever direction the UN's going, whatever direction the DNC's telling him to go, that's the direction he goes.

And, of course, the UN is largely very anti-Israel. When you look at some of the individuals, the nations on the human rights coalitions and you have China right, and some of these nations that are clear violators of basic human rights that are now the ones determining who are the good and bad actors in the world. And they target Israel as being one of the worst, when anywhere in the Middle East, the only where there is religious freedom, the only where there is freedom in general, is in Israel, and yet there again demonized as being one of the worst. But back to Biden identifying that Gaza is the problem but Israel is the aggressor in this war. It's incredibly short-sighted and is a very anti-Israel position.

David Barton

Well, we facilitated Iran, who's anti-Israel. We've facilitated Hamas and we facilitated Hezbollah, the group over in Syria. I mean, Biden is facilitating all the people who hate Israel and he wants to make everybody happy and he's working with people who have a declared agenda of eliminating our best ally that we've got over there.

Rick Green

And talk about forked tongue and of course, we said this on the program the week after October 7th that he's going to talk a good game like he's helping Israel while everybody's coming to Israel's aid, and then he's going to talk a good game like he's helping Israel while everybody's coming to Israel's aid and then he's going to undermine them behind the scenes and we watched it happen in so many different ways and blinking in the same way as well.

David Barton

And the Biden administration is the first time in probably 25 years that America has not killed the UN resolution condemning Israel. We've always killed every other one that's come up and the Biden administration refused to block that resolution that condemns Israel out of the UN. And that's the first time in decades and that's been the Biden administration.

Rick Green

Yeah, and I would say just a final thought on this in terms of what our position should be. We should want candidates that are going to stand with. Israel and not candidates that are going to undermine Israel. Well, we're out of time. It's been a blast Everybody's going to now go create a lot of blasts out on the range and enjoy that as well. David and Tim Barton, thank you so much for joining us here at the Patriot Academy campus and thank you everybody at home for listening to the WallBuilders Show