Rick Green

Welcome to the intersection of faith in the culture. It's WallBuilders. We're taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach, here with David and Tim Barton, David is America's Premier Historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Tim's a national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders, and all three of us appreciate you listening and encourage you to go to our website, wallbuilders.com. It's a great resource, folks. I just I can't stress enough. We need truth in our lives. We need good resources that we can trust, and at wallbuilders.com, not only are you going to have great materials for the whole family to be able to study history, to be able to be encouraged by the life stories of the people that sacrificed for our freedom, but you're also going to be able to plug in and recommend programs to the people in your life. So we've got pastors conferences that we do twice a year in DC Great opportunity for pastors to go. I'm telling you, I've been on this thing, I don't know how many times. It's always inspiring.

The spiritual heritage tour at the capitol is amazing. The guests that David and Tim put together during that, you know, 24 hours in DC. It's just incredible. I cannot recommend it enough. Make sure you tell your pastor about it. There's still some room in the April program, but then we also have another one in September if that one fills up. But just check that out today at wallbuilders.com. And then also teachers, students all kinds of programs in the summer that people can get plugged into.

And I'm mentioning all that because it's so important for us to recognize that we have to be people of action, not just listening to the program, not just, you know, being encouraged a little bit here and there, but also taking action in our communities. And I hope that you're looking for ways to lead in your family, at your church, in your neighborhood. You know, host a constitution class right there in your living room or at your church. There's just a lot of different options and ways for you to make a difference and I hope that you're looking for ways to do that and that we're helpful in that that we encourage you with our guests and our Good News Fridays and our Foundations of Freedom Thursdays and just every time we're talking about all these different things, that it gives you ideas for things that you can do in your community, or maybe there's a particular story that just really gets you excited because you realize that it you know we're making a difference, that people, when they do step up and raise the banner, people will rally. Lots of ways for you to do that and be engaged. Check it all out today at wallbuilders.com.

Rick Green

Hi, David and Tim. Last week we were talking can't remember if it was good, it was Good News Friday I was thinking of Foundations of Freedom Thursday, but it was Good News Friday and, Tim, you had a good news story about Jonathan Feldstein talking about that. Really, the solution for Gaza is Jesus and that's an Orthodox Jewish guy saying that. So you said you know we should get him on the show. Well, guess what? We're going to have him on the show a little later today. And just as a quick reminder, can you remind people what exactly the story was about?

Tim Barton

Yes, article was. The solution for peace in Gaza is Jesus and he's an Orthodox Jew.

David Barton

And let me add, he's an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi, not just an Orthodox Jew. He's an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi.

Tim Barton

I guess that means he probably knows a little bit about the Torah.

David Barton

It means that you're probably less likely to hear a comment from a Jewish rabbi than you are from a Jewish individual, so a comment that is outside of promoting Judaism a comment in favor of Jesus, that's right in favor of Jesus outside of promoting just Judaism. That's a really big, bold statement. I mean, that's because he is an Orthodox Jewish rabbi and he's not unequivocal in his faith and we love it, but that's a bold statement.

Tim Barton

Well and especially identify someone that's not insecure in their position.

David Barton

That's right.

Tim Barton

Because, obviously, rabbi Daniel Lappin, one of our very good friends, he would talk about the importance of that.

Dennis Prager, right Another rabbi. He would talk about this kind of stuff. That's right and this is something that is not the norm coming from a Orthodox Jewish person, much less from a rabbi who is the teacher of Orthodox Judaism. But his position was if you look at how do we solve the crisis in Israel and from a kind of a global perspective, when, if you're trying to come up with solutions, which the UN is right In, these outside groups and President Biden, all these people trying to offer Israel suggestions or really giving them directives, saying that you need to do a ceasefire, you need to write, whatever the argument is, we're hearing more and more people in America Generally speaking, very much on the liberal Democrat side saying that President Biden should be declaring what has happened in Israel a genocide, what Israel is doing to Hamas's genocide, which is just ludicrous.

If you understand the perspective. This is like the ultimate of 1984. When you say that peace is war and war is peace, right, you're changing what those words mean. Hamas is the one that committed the genocide on unarmed civilians in Israel and yet you have this pro-Palestinian movement that is saying that Israel is targeting, by the way, not Palestinians generally, hamas specifically, and they are very intentional about minimizing any civilian casualty anywhere they can. And yet there are Americans again liberal Democrats primarily and maybe specifically exclusively who are saying… that the president needs to say Israel's coming in genocide, etc. Etc. Etc.

And there's just really dumb positions out there of how people are suggesting that we will find peace in the Middle East. So for an Orthodox Jewish rabbi to say, really, that the best way you're gonna find peace in Israel, the best resolution for this conflict, the best way to ensure this never happens again is Jesus, that's a stronger answer than some Pastors in American churches would give. Right, they wouldn't suggest how do we find peace in Israel? They need Jesus, but you have an Orthodox Jewish man saying this. So this is. This is really impressive, and I am excited to have Jonathan Feldstein on the program to unfold this concept for us a little bit more. It's a great article we talked about last week on Good News Friday, so highly encourage people go read the article. He's so brilliant and articulate in this article, but I'm excited to hear what he's gonna say and how he can unfold those thoughts for us in this program.

Rick Green

All right, quick break. We'll be right back with Rabbi Feldstein. Stay with us. You're listening to the wall below the show.

Tim Barton

Hey guys, it's Tim Barton and I want to let you know about an opportunity coming up for pastors and ministry leaders. We are doing our annual pastors briefing in Washington DC and we do this every year. We do one in the spring, we do one in the fall. This spring it's April 16th and 17th. This fall it is September 10th and 11th. This is one of the most significant things we do to encourage and challenge pastors in this culture we live in.

It's in Washington DC and Tuesday night we do an after-hours tour of the US Capitol where we introduce pastors and ministry leaders to the history of the nation. The following day we have congressmen come and they give a briefing on what they're doing and how God is Challenging and motivating and using them and, frankly, most pastors, most ministry leaders they don't know the rich spiritual leaders of the nation or what God is still doing, moving in the hearts and lives of leaders in this nation. I would encourage you if you're a pastor, ministry leader, you need to come to this. It's one of the best things we do at wall builders to find out more. Go to wallbuilders.com and look for the pastors briefing.

Rick Green

Welcome back to WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us. Jonathan Feldstein back with us, and Jonathan just could tell you right here on the air for everybody else, I made my dad's Christmas by giving him your incredible book gorgeous book and just incredible stories in there as well Israel the Miracle. So I know we're way past Christmas, but I hadn't had a chance to chat with you since then. So thank you for doing that and all the great authors you put together Just what a thrill. It was awesome.

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Well, we're way past Christmas, but we're getting lots of interest in the book and it means so much for you to say that and that it made your dad's Christmas, and so people get the book IsraelTheMiracle.com.

Rick Green

It's good stuff, good stuff. Israelthemiracle.com folks picking up right over there. Jonathan, you had a great article, a surprising article, I mean. This was really interesting to read over the Washington Times. The solution for peace in Gaza is Jesus. So for coming from, as you say in the article, coming from an Orthodox Jew, this is a very interesting concept, so tell us about it.

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Yeah, it's a little edgy. A couple of my Jewish friends have expressed their discomfort with my writing that you know. Especially, I'm in the States this week, especially hearing things coming from the White House pushing Israel for a two-state solution and for negotiations and what have you? Maybe once upon a time that was a reasonable plan, but really it sounds so ridiculous coming from anybody who wants to be intelligent and truly wants that peace in the Middle East. We can't be talking about a two-state solution. We can't be talking about rewarding terrorists for committing terror by giving them a state from which they can continue to operate. None of that makes any sense, and on a whole lot of levels. But I'm not giving up. We live in Israel and Israel's home and no one wants peace more than Israel.

So I really did a deep dive to try to figure out. Okay, so what's the issue? And the issue is terror. The issue is Islamic extremism. The issue is that two, almost two and a half million Ghazans who are Muslim, 85% of them support Hamas. They celebrate Hamas even though their lives have been completely uprooted. So my solution is that Gaza does need to be entirely rebuilt, but who should come in? As an army of Christians I think in the article I wrote, 100,000 actually probably should be in order to have a biblical model more like 200,000 people, Christians who will come into Gaza be responsible for the full rebuilding from under the ground up, to build beautiful neighborhoods and cities and parks and hospitals and schools and places that they want to live and be proud of, but also, to be said, a diet of theological love rather than the buffet of hate that they've been crammed down their throat for all these decades.

Rick Green

Man talk about a radical shift. I mean, and when I hear you describe that, what I hear is also it's quite literally the Judeo-Christian Foundation of Americans teaching and building a society based on treating your neighbor the way you want to be treated, based on truths that you share as a culture and essentially following. You know, don't murder, don't, don't steal, don't deceive. I mean, that's what I hear when you say that. So what do other people hear when you say this?

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Well, there's been a tremendous response. Honestly, I didn't really expect it. I wanted to write something that's edgy. I wanted to write something that was a little political. To slap down the stupid people who are saying two states and say, no, that's a stupid thing to make you sound unintelligent by even suggesting that and so what I'm making very clear that once people get this diet of love and they understand that there's a, that Allah has failed them and that they have a relationship with the God of Israel, then they'll begin to love the people of Israel and then they'll understand, like the book I mean not to do the promotion for the book, but the significance of the modern state of Israel and they'll want to live in peace. And I can drive an hour and a half from my home to a beautiful beach in Gaza one day and get a kosher hamburger on the beach because we could live in peace. And that doesn't need to be a diplomatic solution, it doesn't need to be a political solution. It needs to be a radical changing of hearts and, honestly, that's the only solution. There isn't going to be a diplomatic solution, otherwise we're just playing whack-a-mole of terrorists.

Rick Green

What does it look like, Jonathan? Like what would be the, the practical steps necessary for, you know, quite literally, business investments, and, and, and you know, building their rebuilding, that, that area to be what you're describing.

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Yeah, so I'm putting together a one-pager so we, as the Genesis123 foundation can, can become the catalyst for it. I was initially hoping that someone would hear it, take the idea and run with it. That may not happen, so people have implored me. Ok, Jonathan, so you run with it, let's put together a framework. But what that means is we have entire cities that have been destroyed, and the level of destruction is a function of how deeply penetrated in Gaza and society Hamas was and to a degree still is, at least in the hearts of the people. But from under the ground, under the homes, under their mosques, under their schools, under their hospitals, we have these terror tunnels, miles and miles, hundreds of miles of them those need to be purged and those need to be, and you can build underground transportation, actual transportation. You can build sewage, you can do things that are that are beneficial, you can build new roads and new neighborhoods and parks, that above ground transportation and hospitals that are not, that are not used to hide terrorists, and schools that are not used to hide weapons, and get the UN the heck out of there. I almost said a different word, but I don't know if we're allowed to say that. So we'll just stick with heck, but we need to purge it, we need to completely rebuild Gaza has been destroyed.

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Israel has gone in with the military might necessary, but it's a direct function of how much the terrorists have hijacked the society. So now we need to have a rebuilding and it can't be the Arabs. No Arab state is trustworthy. That's why we have terrorists there to begin with, and I don't mean that as a slap at the Arabs, just fact. The United Nations not trustworthy. Even the United States, I'm sad to say, not trustworthy. It's certainly not the EU. So who could do it? An army of hundreds of thousands of Christians who will come in with the expertise and construction in social welfare and everything that's needed to create a society. And what an exciting opportunity, right? To to build something from new, to to erase the evil of the past and build something from new. And I pray for the two, two and a half million people in Gaza that they will have a beautiful society and that we will have peaceful, loving Christian neighbors. It's a result.

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Man, I, you know, Jonathan, as you're describing this. I know we have listeners right now that have to be thinking OK, rick and Jonathan are smoking something. What is going on? This is crazy, and so I just everything in context of history.

It's easier to envision and see, and people forget that I mean Hiroshima and Nagasaki were completely wiped out, and yet you go there today or you look at pictures and it looks like a futuristic scientific city. That is just both of them, because the inputs changed and you had guys like Deming go over there and take those Judeo-Christian values and the basic concepts of a, of a Constitutional Republic and a free enterprise system and boom man, you look now, 80 years later, and the result and it wasn't, didn't take 80 years, it was much shorter than that, but anyway. So I have to throw that out there at you, because this is doable if you have willing parties. And, granted, it's going to take more than the army of folks that you're talking about to go in and build. It's going to take, you know, the people in Gaza wanting it, the in Israel, the leadership wanting it, that sort of thing, but if the parties are willing, it absolutely can be done.

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Correct. But the other thing is who? Who else is willing? Is there anyone really willing to step up? Egypt is not, Jordan is not, the Saudis are not. Nobody's willing to step up and take responsibility. Not the US, not the UN, no one's really-this is just a political hot potato that they're using against Israel. Oh yeah, we don't like terrorism, but you're destroying Gaza, you're committing genocide and that's bad. All of which is not true, but there needs to. There does need to be and no one else is saying this that there needs to be a rebuilding of Gaza, but the other great reason for it being an army of 100 or 200 thousand Christians is Christians will come in and love on the Gazans and want them to succeed as I do, as most Israelis, I believe, do and have meaningful, successful, prosperous lives. But Christians who will be there also don't want the Gazans to start smuggling weapons again and rebuilding terrorist infrastructure, because that's going to harm Israel, the state and the people of Israel, and nobody wants that.

So it's really the most pure and most possible, albeit, yes, someone might think, Jonathan, what are you smoking? Or, as you said, or what's under your skull cap, but really it's the solution and I've had Jewish friends tell me please don't send me any more emails. They are so offended by me suggesting that anyone needs Jesus, much less Gazans. But it's the only solution and if we want peace and if we want my grandchildren to ever not have to go in and combat like my son and son-in-law have been. You know, I'm never the smartest person in the room, unless I'm the only person in the room, but I have to say no one's got a better idea.

Rick Green

Alright, man, even as you're describing that and maybe remind some of your Jewish friends that are upset with you over this that even that handful of non-Christian founding fathers in America still loved the religion because they saw the results of the kind of citizens that it created, so, even though they didn't believe in Jesus as the Son of God or anything, they still liked the outputs right that it and that's essentially what you're saying.

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Yeah, I mean, look, I'd like for them all to become Christian. I personally, yes, I would like to see a Christian Gaza and churches replace the mosques and freedom of worship and celebration of that and tremendous prosperity. Gaza could be in 20 years from now what it should have been now had Hamas not come in and hijacked the society 20 years ago.

Rick Green

So powerful man, so powerful Talking about thinking outside the box. I mean, this is I am very excited to have you back and just hear how the conversations are going and what you know what the developments are, because I just I love outside the box solutions like this and you're right, nobody else is saying this. They're so caught up in the same arguments that we've had for decades and decades and everybody- anyway, I just think it's incredibly interesting. I'm so glad David and Tim saw the articles that Rick we gotta get Jonathan on to talk about this. Really, really intriguing man. God bless you. Thank you again for everything and once again, I want to tell people at the book israelthemiracle.com you gotta go to the website and just see some of the folds, just see some of the layouts and the pictures and it's just incredible and so many people that we have here on WallBuilders that contributed to the book. I think you have, like what is it?

70 authors or something in 

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

There 75 essays, including Pat Roberts and the last public comments on Israel. 

Rick Green

Good stuff! Bless you, brother. Thanks for coming on, man. T

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

Thank you, Rick, god bless, stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Tim Barton

Hey guys, it's Tim Barton and I want to tell you about our new book, the American Story Building the Republic. We start with George Washington as president and we've already become a nation. So really now it's how do we function as a nation? And if we look back in American history, the stability, the prosperity, success we enjoyed as Americans is because of the foundation that our early presidents laid, because of the examples they set. How do we live in America under the Constitution? What is the role of federal government and really what part did each one of these early presidents play? We go to the first seven presidents and a lot of people probably know the names Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Madison. Very few people know about Monroe or John Quincy Adams or Andrew Jackson. Now, we might know some of their names, we really don't know their stories. We want you to relearn, rediscover American history and see how it applies to today. Go to wallbuilders.com and get your copy of the American Story Building the Republic.

Rick Green

We're back on Wallbuilders. Thanks for staying with us and thanks to Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein for joining us, and I do encourage you to get that beautiful, beautiful book, despite the fact, I mean, he even had contributors like this David Barton guy I mean, I don't know guys, do you think does that increase the value of the book? Decrease the value of the book? I'm not sure.

Tim Barton

I am just curious. Thinking about this, I was gonna make the joke and say, well, wait a second. Right, I mean, that is probably someone who'd be identified as a Christian nationalist. But then I thought, wait a second. If John Feldstien is saying that Israel needs Jesus, does that make him a Christian Nationalist of Israel

Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein

He’s a Christian Internationalist.

Tim Barton

Well, but, but he lives in Israel. So that's his nation, right?

Speaker 2: 21:00

I'll get you now. Oh, you're right. Yeah, yeah, he's a. 

Tim Barton

Is he a Christian nationalist for Israel? I'm just curious, right,

David Barton

they have to find that term to where essentially means if you believe in God and believe well. Msnbc, they had the interview and the lady came out afterwards said look, if you think they're a God given inalienable rights, you're a Christian nationalist. I think Rabbi Fedstien believes they're a God given a little right as most people in the world, which you can be outside America, apparently be a Christian nationalist by by liberal definition.

Tim Barton

Well, and going back to the interview, several things that I think are so good, as, as he pointed out in the article and said so clearly, unequivocally, you can't be a serious person and think that that Hamas should be rewarded by getting land in Israel. Yeah, after what they did, right that you're gonna say here's the solution, let's give these, these Muslim Arabs, land because they attacked Israel. That that is not a serious thought.

David Barton

So let's let me interject here. That's called the two-state solution. You're gonna hear a lot about that in the presidential campaign. When they talk us to state solution, that means, hey, give these guys some land, let them have a nation inside Israel or beside Israel so they can keep attacking us. No, no, no. Trump has now taken the position before, and his first time he was a two-state solution guy. This time he's a one-state solution guy. He's changed that position. And is this very reason, this kind of logic?

Tim Barton

Well, and one of the things that Jonathan said to in the interview I Think was different from a little bit from his article.

I think the article and I read the article last week, so I could be remembering this wrong but I feel like in the article he said we need a hundred thousand Americans and in the interview today he talked about a hundred thousand, then changed it to know maybe two hundred thousand, that maybe we need more Christians over here, and I think the point is so valid. Rick, you brilliantly pointed out that when people look at what is happening in Israel, we think right, this is too big, it can't be done and certainly not soon. But then if you go and look at Japan, right and after Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the destruction of what happened in Japan and you look at it today, you would never know that one of the greatest destructions in world history happened there just a couple of decades ago, right, relatively speaking, and it's totally different and part of what made the difference that I think I've heard you talk about this before General MacArthur, who was one of the ones in charge of Pacific theater in certain areas and operations, but especially the rebuilding of Japan. He was one of the generals overseeing the rebuilding of Japan, and one of the things MacArthur called for was Christian missionaries to come to Japan.

David Barton

Five thousand missionaries, give me five thousand missionaries and give me Bibles, and he's the guy in charge of reconstruction in Japan,

Rick Green

 I didn’t know that, 

Tim Barton

 he understood that what led them to do what they did was military Shintoism, that the belief largely embraced in Japan, and it was a belief, I mean, similar in some ways to a kind of Islamic jihad perspective. And he said we have a change that perspective or Japan will, will never change the ideological structure of the nation. We need to change that perspective

David Barton

It’ll never become part of the civilized world because they had the same kind of practice as Hamas does, the same kind of terrorism, what they did to the Chinese, the genocides, and if you don't get some people in here to change their heart, they'll never be a different nation. Now, granted, Japan is not a Christian nation, but they picked up Christian behavior and Christian beliefs and Christian values and they are a different nation. And I would argue that I don't think Rabbi Feldstien, he's a good friend, I don't think he necessarily understands. It's not just Christians going in that will change it. It's Christians going in with biblical views that will change it. 

And that's what's so key, because there's a lot of Christians are anti-Israel. He's not asking for them. He's asking for people that live by the Bible, like MacArthur did with those missionaries teach them the values, teach them the right things, 

Tim Bartonand he definitely did imply some of that. We're talking about what you do to come in to kind of schools and hospitals and people that actually would carry out the Christian belief system and structure.

That's what would make a difference.

And you know, maybe, dad, to your point, there's, there's a lot of people who don't understand that even inside of American Christianity there's so many different belief systems and structures and there's so many people that would identify as Christians that you know. Jesus said you know them by their fruits. And there's a lot of people that if we just look at their fruit, I would not thank you were a Christian right now. Obviously I don't know what they do and don't believe. I don't know if they believe Jesus is the Son of God, savior the world, that right he died and crucified and right resurrected. I don't know what they believe, but I know that I am not seeing the fruits right of the belief of a Savior. But to Jonathan Feldsien’s point, when you have Christians that their belief is lived out, if they would come, they could be the ones to make the difference, to reach the heart, to reach the mind of the lost people, to help them know God, love God, love people, and that would be the solution to finding peace in Israel. Just incredible conversation.

Rick Green

Alright folks. Thanks again to Rabbi Jonathan Feldstein for joining us today and I was joking earlier about, you know, David having a chapter in his book. It's actually really good, along with a lot of other great guys. So it's, you know, it's David Barton, it's Michael Brown, it's got Congresswoman Michelle Bachman,Kay author. Oh my goodness, there's so many in there, I could give you 75 different ones. Raphael Cruz, another great friend of the program, a lot of other people that we have on the program often, so it's really worth checking out. Israelthemiracle.com. Thanks for listening. Today. You've been listening to Wallbuilders.