Faith and Culture Intersection

Rick Green 0:00

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture . It's WallBuilders . We're taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical , historical and constitutional perspective . I'm Rick Green , America's Constitution Coach , and a former Texas legislator with the privilege of serving here with David and Tim Barton . Tim Barton , national speaker and pastor and president of WallB uilders . David Barton , our founder here at WallBuilders and , of course , America's premier historian . All three of us thanks you for watching appreciate you being a part of the WallBuilders team . Go to wallbuilders . com and get some good materials that you can educate yourself with . It will inspire you,

Rick Green 0:37

I promise; to make a difference , to get engaged , to help other people get engaged , to be a force multiplier , telling other people about how to make a difference and be a part of the solution . It's vital that you do that now . You're going to hear some of this in the interview that we have for you today with Eric Metaxas Just how critical it is for us to let our voices be heard and our values counted . Right now , at this inflection point in history , we do not want to end up like Germany , where the church was too silent . We want to make sure that we do our part and that we let our voices be heard , that we rebuild the walls . That's what WallBuilders is all about , just like in the book of Nehemiah rise and rebuild the walls . You may no longer be a reproach . It's time to end the reproach and it's time to bring back the values that made this country great in the first place .

Rick Green 1:21

We're going to jump into that interview with Eric Metaxas . It's actually taking place in The Tavern . If you haven't seen the tavern or found the tavern , go to www . patreonacademy . tv . It's once a week we release a Tavern episode . It's a conversation in The Tavern where we have a discussion about the revolutionary strategies and tactics necessary to save our country . So you're not going to get the whole interview , you're only going to get a portion of it . So excited for you to hear this interview with Eric Metaxas , I got a little housekeeping measure here many calls here at WallBuilders over the interviews that I've been sharing out of the tavern where you just hear me clank mugs with the guest .

Rick Green 2:03

I guess in the last few shows I haven't talked about what I'm drinking and everybody's assuming that I'm drinking maybe some ale from the Revolutionary period or something else that would be alcoholic . I'm drinking some Patriot brew coffee most of the time . Sometimes I have an energy drink , because it's mid-afternoon when I'm doing these interviews and I need a little extra energy . So I have a favorite energy drink called XS , but it's generally coffee , patriot brew , and that's it , nothing else in it . So just in case everybody's wondering because we got a lot of fun calls on that , one Just wanted you to know . So check out www . patriotbrew . com if you want to try the amazing coffee that I've been enjoying these interviews . Anyway , let's jump in . Here's Eric Metaxas in the tavern with me .

Rick Green 2:45

Eric , I've been talking about you , man , it's been mostly good . You know some good , some bad . I actually had a great conversation with a family this last weekend from Germany . Parents actually fled when the Russians took over and came to America and it was kind of like being on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall , but where they were , I wish I could remember because you'd probably know the location of it . Anyway , it was fascinating and we started talking about your book Letter to the American Church . We started talking about Bonhoeffer . It was just incredible and the family was blessed just learning about those things and I was blessed hearing their story . So I've been talking about you but your book Letter to the American Church . Now a movie and our documentary , I guess , will be the right term , bro , for such a time as this man God , I think , has just brought you to this moment

Eric Metaxas 3:40

And know each other and we are in a battle, we're in a war . And I say in the book I have coming out after Letter to the American Church , coming out in April , we're in the third existential crisis of the nation . The first is 1776 . The second was the Civil War . We're in the third existential crisis . If we do not rise to the occasion , it's over . America is over .

Eric Metaxas 4:00

And the reason I wrote Letter to the American Church is that it is the duty of the church to speak and to act , not just to , you know , do church on Sunday . But a lot of churches , a lot of people listening to this good people go to churches that just do church . They don't get involved in this stuff , and the parallel that I make is with the German church in the 30s . They thought that they got to pass from God . All we have to do is do church on Sunday . We don't need to get involved in the controversy and in fighting evil . That is not biblical , that is out of alignment with God's will , which is a pretty bad place to be . And so the parallels with what happened in Germany , to what is happening today because of the silence of many in the American church , is unbelievably grim and I want to say listen , if you care about the world , you care about America . If you care about anybody around this world , you care about how America is doing . And if you care about how America is doing , you care about the church . It is the church's duty to speak and to be the conscience of the state . The conscience of America is the American church . So this is a real prophetic cry , in a sense , that I want to say .

Eric Metaxas 5:10

I believe this is what God is saying and I challenge people to read the book Letter to the American Church . Tell me what I'm missing . That's not biblical and , as you know , Rick , some folks saw me speak on the book Letter to the American Church and I said we need to make a documentary film . And so they made the film it is, you can go to letteroftheamericanchurch . com and see the different ways that you can see it , but I'm exhorting people to please do a free screening in your church . It is available 100% free of charge to churches to get the word out . Lettertot heamericanchurch . com has the details .

Rick Green 5:46

Man . Rachel and Simone did a fantastic job , by the way . I mean , they even made you look good , Eric . I don't know how . That's the miracle of film , seriously , bro, it is so strong and we're , of course , playing the trailer for everybody in the tavern so they can see how powerful it is . I agree with you , man, it needs to be done in community . Bring people together in your church and watch this . It will challenge them to get active . Before we get too far into the book and the movie . You said the parallels to 1930s Germany . I think a lot of people watching this may say we're nothing like Germany .

Eric Metaxas 6:20

Those people are 100% wrong . I wish I were wrong . I wish I wish I wish I were wrong . You gotta understand something we see the past through a funhouse mirror , through a distorted lens . We forget that in Germany in the early 30s , nobody thought it was going where it went .

Eric Metaxas 6:40

It's so easy for us to look back at , like Nazi Hitler ? That's easy . We know what that is . They did not see it , and if some of them sort of saw it , they kind of want it to look the other way . Ah , this is not going , that's just you know .

Rick Green 6:54

And at that time they had our freedoms, right ? I mean , they had freedom of speech , they had freedom of assembly , they had all the things that we take for granted today .

Eric Metaxas 7:01

I would say they didn't have what we had , but it was so close they didn't appreciate what they had . Well , we have infinitely less excuse than the Germans did , because we have the example of what happened in Germany as a warning to us , and that's why I wrote a letter to the American church . It's like , look ! Look at what happened when they said this is not our fight , we just want to do church , we just want to preach the gospel . Jesus didn't just preach the gospel , he called out evil . And honestly , I think that you have to be lulled into a kind of sleepwalking . That's what happened to the German church . They were lulled into taking their eyes off of things because they said you know what ? We're a very Christian nation . Luther is German . I mean , how bad can it get ? They had no idea and because they could not imagine the evil that was coming , they didn't fight against it . They basically said this is not our battle . Just , you know we're not going to be involved in politics , Romans 13 . Just do whatever the government says .

Eric Metaxas 7:58

And honestly , Rick , that is exactly where the church is today . You have to have a blind spot , and we do . We have a blind spot .

Eric Metaxas 8:05

We've been so blessed in the American church , in this nation , we cannot imagine that things could get as bad as they are in other parts of the world . We don't understand , and really that's wrong , because in a sense , if you believe in God's view of who we are , we're all the same in His sight . Americans aren't better than people around the world . We just have been blessed , we've been given a gift to live in a nation where people have values about freedom and so on and so forth , and those values and all those kinds of things, we have to be vigilant . We have not been vigilant , we've taken our eye off the ball . Evil has come in on a level none of us could have dreamt . Let's be honest transgender lunacy , drag queen , story hour for little children , open borders with millions of people flooding across our borders . We have no idea who is coming in . Oh yeah , there's some nice families , but what about ? You know who's sneaking in between the families ?

Rick Green 9:02

Even if it was 1% of the 10 million .

Eric Metaxas 9:07

You need one communist Chinese actor , soldier .

Eric Metaxas 9:11

I mean , this is mind blowing , right and 1% is 100,000 right there , let alone yet I mean , I guess that's the point is that you've got a nation falling apart . Most people see it and I wanna say listen , the answer is God , the answer is the church . The Lord deputizes his church to be his voice , to be his hands , to be his feet . When the church is not active , when the church is not vocal , when the church says , oh , we're just gonna do church , that is way out of line , that's not biblical . And we have many American churches have drifted into that place . They say , well , I don't wanna be accused of being a Christian nationalist . Do you wanna be accused of turning a deaf ear to God's voice ? That's a little bit worse than being called a Christian nationalist .

Eric Metaxas 9:57

Christian nationalism is just a term used to silence the voice of God , to silence his people , and in a lot of churches they're so thin-skinned , they're so concerned with what people think that they are absolutely silenced when somebody calls them are you a racist , you're a transphobia or whatever you think ? Come on , I'm supposed to be faithful to God . And the parallels of the German church that's what's so chilling to me is how many people don't see it . How many people are going to churches right now that are no different than good German churches that were just doing church and avoiding what was right in front of them , saying that's not my job , we're just gonna stick in our theological lane . Bonhoeffer said that the church is supposed to be the conscience of the state . We have no excuse . In the church we believe Jesus defeated death . We should be absolutely all out courageous in the battle against evil and there are many people , as I say , going to churches that are . They've just said , you know what , we're gonna be neutral on this .

Eric Metaxas 10:57

e're gonna see how , the which way the wind blows , and I'm thinking the devil owns the fence If he can keep you on that fence you are his kind of church if you're on that fence .

Rick Green 11:05

You said silenced , you said silenced . That is of all the things that stuck out to me from your original book , bonhoeffer , however many years ago , that was silence in the face of evil is evil itself . I'd never forget it . Man , I was literally listening to your book , okay , while I was out mowing I have to admit I was sitting on a tractor , but I was listening to your book and I mean my world just stopped . That was so powerful to me and that was such a wake up call . I don't when did you do that one ? 15 years ago , how long has that been ?

Eric Metaxas 11:31

That book came out in 2010 , which , stunningly , is suddenly 14 years ago . Which ?

Rick Green 11:38

is insane 14 years ago . So silence in the face of evil is evil itself . You drove that home in the book and that is the church right now , or so many in the church . What is ?

Eric Metaxas 11:47

You know , I don't think Bonhoeffer actually said that it's attributed to him . So you know , you can attribute it to me , I don't care . The point is it's true silence in the face of evil is itself evil . You say, the German church said , and many Christians say today you know what ? I'm not gonna get into that I'm just gonna preach the gospel . Well , you're being silent in the face of evil . The Lord calls you to take a stand , because the scripture commands us to love our neighbors . If you love your neighbor , right , you won't just preach the gospel , you'll speak against the lies and the wickedness , corruption

Rick Green 12:20

That is the gospel . It's not just the salvation message , it is what you're saying , the whole gospel .

Eric Metaxas 12:25

You let it down so that they don't have to get in controversial stuff . And I think to myself since when is truth uncontroversial ? I mean , you're talking about listen , there were churches .

American Church Must Take a Stand

Rick Green 12:37

Quick break , folks , stay with me . We're listening to Eric Metaxas , where he joined me in the tavern , talking about the Revolutionary strategies and tactics to save a nation . And no , we're drinking like water and coffee in the tavern . In case anybody was still wondering stay with us , we'll be right back on WallBuilders and you noticed the vacuum of leadership in America . We're looking around for leaders of principle to step up and too often no one is there .

Rick Green 13:06

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Rick Green 14:00

Welcome back to WallBuilders . Thanks for staying with us . We're in the middle of an interview with Eric Metaxas , where he joined me in The Tavern . You can get the full interview and the full episode over at www . patreonacademy . tv or at warrior poet society network . Let's jump right back in with Eric Metaxas in The Tavern .

Eric Metaxas 14:16

Listen , there were churches in the 1850s that basically said we don't want to be controversial , we don't want to be political , we're not going to take a stand on the slavery issue . Now can you imagine what that does to God's heart ? That my people do not see that this is an abomination , these people treating other people this way . They're not taking a stand . Now , many Christians took a brave stand on the slavery issue , but many Christians said I don't want to get involved , we just want to do church , which is to say we don't care at all about the people suffering in that system . We don't care , Just like many churches said at the end of the day , I'm not going to stick my neck out for some Jews , I'm just going to do church . And you've got Christians today effectively doing the same thing, they don't realize that . That's why I wrote the book and we put up the movie to make them understand .

Eric Metaxas 15:01

Like , do you understand what your silence and your inaction is basically throwing those people under the bus ? There are tons of families struggling with the transgender lunacy . Try to think how do I raise my kids ? What is happening ? How do I deal with a corrupt government ? Where the government is lying , where the government is putting out disinformation , and when I speak the truth , they call it disinformation . They're silencing me . They are persecuting people , trying to get the truth out about vaccines , about voter fraud , about what's going on in the southern border . Everything that is true . You speak about it and you're told you shouldn't speak about it . The church should speak even louder when you're told not to speak , and so this is , as I say , a warning .

Eric Metaxas 15:43

I believe the Lord has allowed these horrible things to happen to wake up his people to say you know how bad it's going to get ? Here's a taste , here's a little taste of this , here's a taste of this , here's a taste of this , and I think people are waking up . The question is you know people listening to this ? Are you going to a church that is still silent in the face of evil ? I picture it actually, I think of the image of the Gulliver being tied down by the little Appusians . Right , he was sleeping . So it's like a picture of the church . He's sleeping and they're tying him down . If he wakes up , they're dead . Oh , yes .

Eric Metaxas 16:14

But if we can keep him sleeping another couple of minutes , another couple of minutes , another couple of minutes . Pretty soon they will have him tied down and when he wakes up it's game over . That is what Hitler did to the German church . He just kept them sleeping and basically said no , don't take it easy , I'm pro-God , I'm not going to bother anybody . And he kept enacting laws and doing things and doing , and then finally game over when the church woke up , when many woke up too late , you can do nothing because you didn't speak up in time . That is where we are right now . If you think you'll get to speak up in five years from now , you will not . What you have will be taken from you . If you think you can spend your money , use your voice , whatever it is , if you're not doing it now for God's purposes , it will be taken from you and you will not be able to do it in time . We're in that kind of a battle . We need to use every chance we have .

Rick Green 17:00

I'm curious if you see this the same way . You know we talk about the cycle of tough times . You know , making tough men , tough men make good times , good times make soft men , soft men lead tough times . Is it possible that the American system , that we have the freedoms at our fingertips to interrupt that cycle and not have to go to totalitarianism , complete totalitarianism or what Reagan called a thousand years of darkness , if , like you said , we wake up and we are gullible and we rip off those chains right now ? Otherwise we can lose all of those things that our Constitution guarantees ?

Eric Metaxas 17:31

I have no doubt that if the church , the window is closing and if we do not stand now , millions of people are gonna be tortured with guilt forever because they're going to see that I could have said something . I did nothing . I had an opportunity . Now it's over . I have no opportunity . You know , if you are , if you think about it I mean there are people right now suffering for speaking out . There are people in the J6 Gulag friends of mine who did absolutely nothing wrong . And you think this can't happen in America . The government can't be that wicked . We've come to a place where it's hard for us to process that this is happening in America . Therefore , many of us look away , we can't bear it and I'm here to say it is happening and if you don't begin to wake up and do something about it , it's gonna come for you . That's basically the way it works . So Bonhoeffer knew that the German church had a tiny window and even by 1935 , it was over . He knew that in 33 , 34 , they basically had an opportunity and the window was closing . He did everything he could and the German church basically said you know what ? We don't believe you . We don't think it's gonna go there . We're willing to let it ride . Let's see how it goes . We think it'll be okay .

Eric Metaxas 18:44

It was a nightmare , an absolute nightmare , and I have to say , Rick , I believe we're in exactly the same place . I mean , if people will read my book Letter to the American church or see the film Letter to the American church , they will see that like as bad as it is . First of all , you have to see how horrible it is , but then you have to say , but wait a minute , why has God called me to look at this ? Because he wants me to be part of the solution , because he wants us not to cave in , not to lose our freedoms . So there's a joy on the other side of this is that we have an opportunity to share our faith , to share our freedoms .

Eric Metaxas 19:22

Now, if we don't fight now , we won't have that opportunity . But I really believe that if we fight and pray now , we will see revival , we will see reformation , we will see things that we haven't dreamt of , and so that's what the next book is about , which is the sequel to The Letter to the American church called Religionless Christianity , because when Bonhoeffer was thinking about this in Germany it was over and he was thinking how did we miss it ? And he says we were just religious , we weren't really living out our faith , we were just playing church . And what would have happened if we had been real Christians who had bravely , courageously, lived out our faith at a time when it was tough ? What would have happened ? And it would have been like Lincoln calls it a new birth of freedom . We could have experienced something really beautiful , but we missed it . And so that's part of why I say to people if you're going to a church that is not in this battle , for the sake of your own soul , get out of that church . Find a church that understands this .

Rick Green 20:17

Yeah , and man , so much that you just said that , so good . But the timing of what you just described in Germany , Man , if that's not a wake up call , if he knew in 33 , 34 our windows closing and by 35 it had closed , what does that say to us ? Right now , in America , this window could be because I've been saying like , ah , maybe we got five years , maybe we got 10 years . It could literally be 24 months , it could literally be 30 years , I think this year .

Eric Metaxas 20:41

This is it . Wow , I think this is it . If we do not stand and fight for what is right and good and true , by the grace of God we could prevail . If we don't , I think it's game over and that's why I feel like the

Call to Action

Eric Metaxas 20:56

Lord, I mean , listen , I don't say this kind of stuff lightly . I believe the Lord called me to write this book . I wouldn't say that I would be struck by lightning if I would say something like that , and it's not true . And I believe the Lord wanted this documentary film to be made . It was not my idea .

Eric Metaxas 21:09

I was speaking at a church in California , Rob McCoy's church , and two women that are Hollywood veterans who love Jesus, they said this needs to be a documentary film . So they made the film . The film is fantastic . I had nothing to do with making the film . I mean , I'm the main voice of the film , but I didn't make the film .

Eric Metaxas 21:23

It is beautifully done , interviews with it with a ton of people that have a lot to say on this , from starting with Charlie Kirk and Seth Gruber and Victor Marx and his wife , Eileen Marx , and John Almanchukwu . I mean , everybody in their sphere is kind of unpacking this stuff , but it is so beautifully done and I don't know if I said it . I think I said it , but if you go to lettertotheamericanchurch . com , to the website , we are making this available free to any churches that want to do a free screening in their church , and I say , folks , please take us up on that . It is free to churches . We want to get the message out to churches and if your church is not interested in doing a free screening of this , I got to ask why are you interested in going to that church ? I don't get that .

Rick Green 22:06

I honestly , I know you're right . You , you got to either change your pastor or change your pastor , right , it's one of those two has got to happen . If your church is not doing this , I got to screen it and I did so with it , with a group of guys in a Bible study group and man , those , we were all just silent . I mean it was so powerful , everybody was so moved and , like you said , these interviews with Eileen and Victor and John , I mean they're all so , so good , it is so well done . It will wake people up and it will make them want to get involved . We're actually encouraging people to do Biblical Citizenship courses right after they view the , the movie at their church , then turn around and do the eight-week course so that you give people opportunities .

Eric Metaxas 22:44

I heard about these Biblical Citizenship courses . I mean , you're living this out , and I know a lot of people who listen to you . They were already on this page . The only thing I would say , though , folks , is , if you're going to a church that's not on this page , why are you doing that ? Why are you giving your tithe and your time ?

Eric Metaxas 23:00

Going to a church that is turning a blind eye to evil ? German churches did this and , trust me , they were not all wicked . They were good people who just said you know what we're gonna get, we're gonna take a pass . We just want to do a church . Well , god doesn't give you a pass . They thought that they were in neutral ground . I said it before . They were on the fence saying like we don't want , we don't need to , we don't need to choose . And I'm here to tell you that that's the devil's plan , that you would sit right on that fence . Don't take a stand , don't be bold , because you're exactly where the devil wants you to be

Rick Green 23:32

And almost hoping that you know this stuff will just go away or that it's not happening . And you said this when we were together at an event last summer and you said there were awful lot , of a lot of Jews being hauled off on those trains that were hoping Christians would get more political . Because we keep hearing don't get political in the church . Can you imagine , yeah , what if they had gotten more political ? How many lives would have been saved . And right now for us , if who's gonna be saying that five years from now ? Sure wish the church had been more political . Or I'm so thankful that the church actually decided that there's nothing off limits . The Bible applies to everything . They became quote-unquote political . In other words , they spoke truth into the culture and everybody benefit . Freedom was saved because the church spoke truth . That's what you're calling people to do stand up and speak truth , live out your faith everywhere we look .

Eric Metaxas 24:18

Let's just talk about globalism . Let's just talk about that's one issue globalism . What is globalism ? Globalism is Marxist and evil . It is anti-God . If you have a one-world government , okay , it is not gonna have the values of George Washington , Abraham Lincoln , the Constitution . It's not gonna have those values is gonna have satanic values , the same values of the Communist Party of China right now , which means if you disagree with the state , they will crush you , they will kill you , they'll put you in a prison camp , they will kill you and take your organs and use your organs for you know , the highest bidder . Those are the values when you take God out . That's the value . Those are values of globalists .

Rick Green 24:57

That's not a novel , folks,

Eric Metaxas 25:01

in those countries and they're bringing it here . They try to use the COVID pandemic to bring it here to say , oh , we're gonna , we're gonna seed our Authority or sovereignty to the WHO , to the World Health Organization , because they know the World Health Organization is , you know , run by China , run by globalists . It doesn't have the values that we have had traditionally in America . It doesn't have the values of our Constitution , the sanctity of the individual . So we're in a crisis point because we've drifted and drifted away from our roots and we're sitting ducks . And so you've got tons of people open to this nonsense . And then the worst is you have churches that have opened their door to this woke doctrine even just a little bit .

Eric Metaxas 25:40

But I'm here to talk to churches that maybe haven't opened your door to the woke doctrine , but you're not speaking against it , you're not taking action against it , you're not vigilant in it . People who are going to a church like that , I'm begging you , get out of that church , take your money out of that . It's God's money . Take it out of that church because we need everybody to be all in . The Lord is calling his church to be the church , a holy remnant right now for his purposes in history . This is not about America . This is about God's purposes in the world .

Rick Green 26:07

My friends , we're out of time for today . That's all we could share with you from the tavern interview with Eric Metaxas . Make sure that you watch Letter to the American Church . It's incredible . You want to share that with everybody that you can and then get them to do a Biblical Citizenship in Modern America course . Sure , appreciate Eric joining me in The Tavern . Thank you for listening today to WallBuilders and make sure you get the full interview with Eric and the full episode of The Tavern at Patriot Academy TV . That's Patriot Academy TV . Or you can get it over at warrior poet society Network and make sure you learn more about WallBuilders by going to our website today at WallBuilders . com . Thanks so much for listening to WallBuilders .