Rick Green: 0:03
Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. You've come to the right place if you want to find some truth applied to the culture. In other words, if you want that biblical, historical and constitutional perspective that will give you the right answers to every issue we're facing today, whether it's government or it's in our entertainment and our own families, our personal lives, all that kind of stuff. We got to go to the Bible. We got to go to the answer book. We got to go to the instruction manual that the Creator gave us and then to apply that properly in our culture. Where we have been placed you know, if you want to use the Nehemiah example, our spot at the wall, where we have been planted If we want to do that correctly in our nation, we have to know our Constitution, we have to know our government and how our system works. And then history always has a lot to teach us. That's why God says remember the former days. He says that over and over again in the Bible and if we do that we'll learn so much, we'll save ourselves a lot of pain and we can actually restore the culture around us. So thanks for being a part of that by listening to the WallBuilders Show. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach, with the opportunity and honor of serving here with David and Tim Barton. Tim is a national speaker and pastor and our president here at WallBuilders. David's, America's premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders, and we're looking forward to this program with you today. Thanks so much for joining us on the WallBuilders Show. Alright, David and Tim later in the program, Tina Descovich back with us from Moms for Liberty and, of course, there's a lot. I actually love this and, David, you taught me this years ago actually that you know we don't have pride of authorship. We don't want just one organization doing everything. We love the fact that there's all these new organizations cropping up all over the country and they're not little. I mean, they're getting hundreds of thousands of members getting active Every state. I'm seeing local and state organizations now, these national organizations like Moms for America, moms for Liberty. It's just really cool to see that more and more people are getting involved and they're becoming effective. They're getting organized, they're getting good, you know, good strategy put into place. They're training people. So I'm looking forward to today. I think it's almost like a good news program for us.

David Barton: 2:00
Yeah, it really is good news in so many ways. And really, Rick, you had something that's kind of fundamental to human nature. There's just so many groups out there doing it and it's a tendency for people to say, hey, my group is doing that, you guys go find something else to do, this is what we're doing, you leave us alone. And really what you find in the book of Nehemiah, with them rebuilding, is everybody did their part and even if it was the same kind of rocks that were used on the opposite side of the city, if they built the same technique, the same way, it didn't matter. Everybody go do something. And when you look at a bestselling author, a blockbuster bestselling author, if you take the New York Times bestsellers list, that means they sold about 10,000 copies in a week. So take that. Alright, 10,000 copies. Let's say you're Glenn Beck and you do a million copies. He's got 22 straight books that have sold over a million copies. Now that's a blockbuster, I point out one million copies is one third of 1% of the nation. We could afford to have 300 more of Glenn Beck's to cover the entire nation. So you know, for people to get really kind of and I'm going to use the term selfish hey, this is my turf, get off my turf. No, no, there's so much turf out here for all of us, and let me help you do what you're doing and let's all join hands on this, instead of criticizing and fighting and saying that's my turf. And so you know how many groups out there are working on school boards right now? There's a lot, but that's not near enough. We need about 50 times more doing exactly the same thing. And that's what I find refreshing in some of these new groups that are coming along. They don't have that turf. Consciousness of this is ours. It's like all hands on deck. You know, let's get all the life jackets distributed, all the life votes going, let's get everybody moving, let's get this thing saved, and it is really refreshing. And so Mom's Liberty is one of those groups. They're a fairly new group. They're less than three years old and they're growing like gangbusters and having a lot of success. And because they are having a lot of success, people want to join them, and that's great. We need a whole lot more chapters of them, but we need a whole lot more chapters of people doing the exact same thing they're doing, which doesn't bother them, at least If they can help equip people to go out and take school boards and get parents in charge of school boards and get parental rights going again and get good content in the classroom. And that's what's so fun about part of this new movement. A lot of the old school people are still very turf conscious and, hey, we've been doing this for 20 years. You need to join us. No, you don't, you need to join anywhere. You can go, make a difference and God bless you. Whatever group that's going to be, we need all the groups and we need a whole lot more of those groups. And that's what's really refreshing about Tina is this is something she only got into three years ago, but now they have this great model that you can take and replicate in your own community. I don't know what to do with my school board. Well, she can tell you, she can give you the guideline and say here's how you can make a difference, and so it really is refreshing to have someone with that wholesome mentality that's also very God conscious and you know I'm not the perfect equipped person to do this, but God kind of put me here and it's really worked well and we can help you do the same thing. This is just a really wholesome, refreshing interview with a good attitude, and it's going to be great for a lot of people because this is something you can replicate in your own community and start having some really good success.

Rick Green: 5:21
Well, as we're going to break, we'll come back with with Tina. I should turn off David's headphones so that he can't hear this, because it probably chastised me for even saying this about him, but anybody can say what he just said. I'm telling you, listeners, he lives it and I got to admit I'm much more turf conscious. I would always be like, hey, wait a minute, David Barton's already doing that. Or you know, David is the expert on the Founding Fathers and some other group would be starting and David would always say this is great, Rick, we need more groups out there doing that. It's okay, we need more groups to do it. I'm telling you he lives this. So he's not just saying that, he lives it and he sets a great example and I think that that is starting to happen in some of these other areas and it's going to well. We see it with what's going to happen, with what we're going to hear from Tina and the other groups out there. But this is good folks, we want more and more organizations out there that care about liberty, that care about the Constitution, that are training people to get involved and so be encouraged. We'll be right back and get some good news from Tina Descovich of Moms for Liberty.

Tim Barton: 6:22
Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders, and, as you've had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you've probably heard the wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, about all the things that makes America exceptional. And you might be thinking, as incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school or public school or some political event or activity. If you're interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there's a tab for scheduling and if you'll click on that tab, you'll notice there's a list of information, from speakers' bios to events that are already going on, and there's a section where you can request an event to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and bring a speaker to your area. This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders, with another moment from American History. Too often today, history education excludes great black heroes from the American founding, such as Lemuel Haynes. Haynes abandoned as a baby pioneered churches across upper New England. He became the first black American to pastor a white congregation, to receive an honorary master's degree and to be ordained by a mainstream Christian denomination, the Congregationalists. He was a soldier during the American Revolution and in his churches on George Washington's birthday he regularly preached sermons honoring George Washington. Even late in his life he expressed his willingness to go back to battle if necessary to protect America, which he called a sacred ark. American history is filled with numerous examples of black heroes who are largely ignored by mainstream education today. For more information about Pastor Lemuel Haynes and other colonial patriots, go to WallBuilders.com.

Rick Green: 8:22
Welcome back to WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us. Tina Descovich is back with us from Moms for Liberty. Tina, y'all have been pounding the pavement, 120,000, probably more than that members now and just involved in school board battles all over the country, restoring liberty and bringing back some sanity to these schools. God bless you. Thanks for some time today, tina.

Tina Descovich: 8:42
Absolutely so. The number is 130,000 across the country, but the more exciting numbers. We are now in 48 states. So shame on Utah and Vermont. What is wrong with you? Step up to the plate.

Rick Green: 8:54
Alright listeners in Utah and Vermont. Okay, tina, we're going to solve that problem today. What is the website to get ahold of you and say I want to be the first Utah Moms for Liberty chapter?

Tina Descovich: 9:04
MomsforLibertyorg. Sign up. Utah and Vermont we really want. Of course, we weren't always headed towards wanting to be in all 50 states, but it just has happened. But being at 48, it's like, oh my gosh, we just need two more states. We want to be able to stay all 50 states.

Rick Green: 9:21
I don't know how y'all have slept or had any time to do anything else. You started just in Florida. Was it two years ago? Three years ago?

Tina Descovich: 9:29
Almost three. In January first It'll be three years.

Rick Green: 9:33
You started in Florida, rapidly grew there, had phenomenal results in the elections and then just also giving frustrated parents an outlet to get involved and do something to make a difference. Anyway, in Florida and went huge and then boom, I mean exploded across the country. 48 states and we're going to solve that and get the other two. But what do you credit it to? How did it explode that fast?

Tina Descovich: 9:58
A couple things. The one it's just like any other organization or business, anything that's successful. There was a desperate need for it. Education has been controlled by one segment of society, one or the teachers union. I'll just say it, I'm not going to be asked around it. It's been controlled by the teachers union with a very specific ideology for a very long time decades, as a matter of fact. And parents have had enough. Still, COVID happened. We saw parents all across the country, things that were being taught. They saw they were being shut out of planning and school board meetings and even microphones shut off. So the momentum just was on our side. And then number two I attribute it all to God. We're just ordinary moms. Tiffy and I the founders, served on school board. I didn't have the skills and ability to build this and run this organization and find people all across the country. Living in a little town in Florida, I had no ability to do this on my own.

Rick Green: 10:57
I think we need to correct a translation mistake in the Old Testament where it says the men of Issaacar understood the times and knew what to do. It actually says moms for liberty understood the times and knew what to do, because it really is so similar. I mean the fact that y'all you do, you understand what time it is the way that the next generation says it all the time. But I mean you understand what's at stake here and instead of just checking out, curling up in the fetal position and giving up or just complete exit and say we're just going to take our ball and go home and play with it, you're saying, hey, we know what to do, we know what needs to be done here, and it's a multifaceted approach, and so I really respect that about y'all and the ability to engage at the local level in that way. Tell us about a club Like how does a moms for liberty group get started and then what's required of them. I know we don't have time to go through everything, but just give us for those listeners that are thinking, wow, there is an outlet. I've been wanting to do something, because people are frustrated but they don't know what to do and so whether they become a constitution coach with Patriot Academy or moms for liberty or both or whatever, finding an outlet is huge. How do they do that with you?

Tina Descovich: 12:08
Yeah, if you're concerned of what's going on in schools and if you have kids or grandkids, you need to be concerned. You know we have chapter chairs that their kids are in private school or at our homeschool, but they still are concerned of what's going on in public schools.

Rick Green: 12:20
As they should be.

Tina Descovich: 12:21
Yeah, 70, 80% of kids in America, depending on where you live and which they are still in public schools, even with all these school choice options, even with homeschool options, and so it doesn't look like that's going to change too terribly much in the near future. And we have got to protect these children and make sure they're not being indoctrinated and taught to hate America, and so your solution for that, in my opinion, is to join and work with a moms for liberty chapter. That is what we do. Our sole purpose is to empower parents to defend their parental rights at all levels of government. As former school board members, it is very clear to us that what's happening in school districts and even at the state level, and so if you're interested in joining or starting a chapter, you just go to our website momsforlibrityorg. There's a big map. If your county is blue, it means there's no chapter there. You click on it and you start the process. There's an interview, background check, you have to have gone to a school board meeting, you need 10 people to start it with you, you need a vice chair and a secretary and a treasurer, and it's not terribly complicated, honestly. Once you're approved, you're off to the races and you become the overseer of your school district and of your school board and from there it's up to you. We leave a law that chapters our autonomous. We have. You have to sign a code of conduct and make sure you're not a jerk or a bad person and that you're acting in a joyful, warrior way, like we like to say. But other than that, you work within our mission to defend parental rights or to improve public education and you work with your chapter and your members to decide how you're going to fight that in your local community and what that has grown into around the country. As we watch these chapters do and their different things, it's amazing.

Rick Green: 13:53
I'm sending an email right now to the federal discrimination department because apparently you discriminate against jerks, so you said no jerks.

Tina Descovich: 14:01
No, jerks Alright.

Rick Green: 14:05
And here's what I heard in all of that for sure and I hope our listeners did as well you don't have to start from scratch. Here's a tractor run on, here's people that have figured this out, that are going to come alongside you and equip you and give you the tractor run on. You just have to say here, my Lord, send me and sign up and get plugged in, but then, yeah, you got to go do the hard work. I mean, this is not easy. Liberty's not easy. It's not free. It takes hard work and that's what Moms for Liberty is doing all over the country. I think I'm pretty sure I've told you this before, tina, but Karen and my wife and I have such an affinity for y'all because we found our Patriot Academy campus in Fredericksburg because of Moms for Liberty. So it was a Moms for Liberty person in Fredericksburg that my wife had just been talking to, and so, because she's a Moms for Liberty person, nicole, if you're out there, thank you. She caught our vision very quickly, so she shared our vision and so when she saw this property, she was like that's the Patriot Academy it's got to be, and called Kara and we were able to get Anyway. So we will forever be in your debt and forever thank you guys for what you're doing and Moms for Liberty and Patriot Academy are going to be joined together for a long time, I hope, and doing good work, and I know you guys share our Wabulders' view as well and just wanting to bring back those principles of Liberty that make a nation great, and that's part of it is. It's not just taking over at school board, it's actually saying, okay, here's what our education system needs to do to improve and go back. And I guess you guys you said I think there's a lot of you involved that have already served on school boards in the past but then when someone gets elected in a community, do they stay a Moms for Liberty chapter person or do you have some sort of separation, or is there any need for that? Does that make sense? That was a really confusing way of asking that question?

Tina Descovich: 15:43
No, it absolutely makes sense. That's a great question. So the only people that cannot? The only policy we have in that area is you cannot be a chapter chair, so you cannot be leading the whole county and be a chapter and serving on the school board at the same time. You can be a member you can be a vice chair, a treasurer or secretary, you can do all kinds of things. But it's a little bit of a conflict of an interest to be overseer of the school board and be on the school board. So a lot of our chapter chairs run and we love that they run but unfortunately slash. Fortunately sometimes they win and then we lose our chapter chair, but usually somebody else great steps up.

Rick Green: 16:18
One more thing before I let you go speak to the long game and encouraging people to stay in the fight, even when they have a setback or a loss. Because you know, I mean I've lost more elections than I've won, failed in business more than I've succeeded in business. I learned from those things, I get better, I come back and I do better the next time. And obviously, in elections, we're going to lose a lot of these elections and win a lot of these elections. And so how do you encourage your members? You know we had a school board race that we got real involved in and barely lost, and you know when that happens, everybody's like ah, you know, do I want to do this again or I'll put in all this effort? What do you say to your members when that happens?

Tina Descovich: 16:54
That's a great question. I feel like I feel that very deeply, right now.we are under such attacks as Moms for Liberty all the way. You know our national organization, but every single mom in her community that wears our shirt and hat, right now.they just everything is being thrown at them. And then, on top of that, we do lose elections. We won a total of 365 school board seats over the last two years, but we have lost. You know that doesn't matter to the mom in Texas or Wyoming, or you know any of these states where they have lost or their candidate has lost, and they've put everything into it. As you said, you've lost. You know what that feels like. And then you know when the media makes up lies and punches you in the gut and tries to defame you or your organization. It's very challenging and often. Often people want to clit and sometimes they do. But you know this this war is not going to be one with quitters and you have to figure out how to dig deep and keep marching forward and stay mission focused. It's not about that one school board seat. This is a much bigger battle and a much bigger war that has to be won, and, as you and I both know the battle that we're looking at of the school board seat, or you know the one lesson those are just tiny little sites and something much bigger and deeper that's happening. And how can you live with yourself? I mean, I hate to do the shame, but how can you live with yourself, sit down and do nothing?

Rick Green: 18:14
Yeah, yeah, so good, so good, and it's not like you said. It's not going to be one with well as as, as we like to say. It's not going to be one with summer soldiers, sunshine Patriots. We need winter soldiers.

David Barton: 18:24
Thomas.

Rick Green: 18:24
Paine was the one to, you know, say and these are the times that try men's souls, yeah, the summer soldier and the sunshine Patriot will, in this present crisis, shrink from service to his country, but he that stands it now deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. There's already folks out there and, by the way, hey, utah, hey, wake up. We need to at least check off Utah today, like when this program, today someone in Utah is going to sign up so that we can, we can check that off. And then what was the other one? It was Vermont. Vermont, yeah, vermont. What are the like? Six people in Vermont.

Tina Descovich: 18:53
I'm sorry, I was getting insult.

Rick Green: 18:55
Vermont I'm an obnoxious Texan, I can't help it. Tina, God bless you. Y'all keep it up. We're praying for y'all and we love not just you know the results, but just in the fight and the hope that you give families and communities as you continue to influence and bring back the good principles so we can have schools we can be proud of and an education system we can be proud of. And, frankly, the main goal raise up little Patriots, raise up good, biblical citizens out there. That will be a positive influence on the country and y'all are right in the middle of that fight. God bless you.

Tina Descovich: 19:24
Thank you so much, Rick. I appreciate it. It's great talking to you again.

Tim Barton: 19:35
Hey guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called the American Story. For so many years people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that's just not known or not told today and, we would say, very providentially, in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project let's say, America is evil and everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not the statement Black Lives Matter, but the organization that says we're against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There's so many things attacking America. Well, is America worth defending? What is a true story of America? We actually have written and told that story, starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln. We tell the story of America not as a story of a father, not as a story of a perfect nation or a perfect people, but the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It's a story you want to check out, wildbuilderscom the American story.

Rick Green: 20:41
We're back. Thanks for staying with us on the WallBuilders show and during the break I told Tina to collapse her organization that we are already doing this and she should just come. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. We're really thrilled about what she's doing and more of you out there doing the same thing, and I bet, David I bet there's somebody listening right now that is probably going. You know, I've always dreamed of doing this kind of thing and being able to put my heart and my passion into this, and I've always wanted to start an organization or a ministry or a women's pregnancy center, whatever it might be, and we want to encourage them, say, hey, yes, step out there and I go, get with people that have done it and learn from them and have good mentors or whatever. But man, I just love this new sort of entrepreneurship, of citizen activism that's happening across the country.

David Barton: 21:23
You know, one of the many things I learned from Tim was Tim was looking into George Washington and his leadership, because we keep looking for another George Washington to come lead us out of the crisis, lead us out of the fray, and you go back, and I think Tim said that. Mount Vernon points out there's 230 battles in the American Revolution. George Washington is involved in 16 and one seven. It's not George, more George Washington's we need. It's more local communities we need to get in and do stuff.

Tim Barton: 21:48
Yeah, I think it was. He was involved in 17 and one six, and actually if you look up some, some other websites, they'll point out there's more than 250 battles when you include some of the naval battles as well, some of those interactions. And so the reality is, George Washington fought in very, very few and he won even less, and yet he is the leader that helped America win the ultimate victory in the American Revolution.

David Barton: 22:14
And it's because of all those communities where he never showed up, he was never part of, he wasn't part of those battles. But it's they all wanted to win and they all got in and did what they could in their community. And so don't look for a George Washington to come to your community and say, hey, sign up behind me and we can win. You need to be the George Washington in your community. You need to be the one who says, hey, I can get 10 people together. We can start a group here and we can do school boards, and we're going to start another group with 10 people. We're going to do city councils, whatever it is. Go out and lead in your community. And that's how we won that massive war, even though we were massive underdogs, was because we got people doing stuff in their own community.

Tim Barton: 22:55
And you know, Dad, to that point, one of the things that she said was that this war will not be won with quitters.

Rick Green: 23:01
We have to keep moving forward.

Tim Barton: 23:02
That was good and right. I mean thinking about the American Revolution, when you think about losing the majority of the battles, when you think about it, because, as you're even talking about local involvement, we didn't win all of the local battles either. Right, I mean, arguably we didn't win the battle Lexington Green, I mean Concord Bridge. You might could say we won, but really the British retreated because there was opposition, but it wasn't that we conquered them in that moment. And then, right, you look at the battle of Bunker Hill. Well, I mean, technically we lost, we did pretty well. But you start going through these battles battle by battle by battle. We did not win the majority of battles in the American Revolution. We lost the majority. In other words, many that were draw, maybe some that both sides kind of moved around and reposition and battle formations, they kind of with true dissipated, whatever it is. But the reality is, and really even more so early on in the revolution, we were getting our clocks cleaned pretty consistently and until the end of Valley Forge, when there was more training, there was more detail, we had more help. Certainly, when the French get involved, it makes a big difference, but it was. The revolution was one again, not just by local involvement. Although that was significant, it was one by people that didn't quit, because if everybody that had suffered a loss would have quit, there would have been nobody left to fight in the revolution, because everybody in the revolution suffered losses somewhere along the way. It's just that we didn't quit and we kept showing up until we won the war. And this, to me, is the most significant thing, and George Washington is our prime example. When you're watching all these battles happen around you, you decide, okay, I'm going to get involved. And Washington is part of 17 battles and you only win six. Well, how do you stay involved? Well, you stay involved until you win. The battles have to be won. And the fact that he won the last major battle, the battle of Yorktown well, if you're only going to win one battle, winning the last one is a really good one to win, because then you get to be victorious. Right, he won a few more than the last one, and this is a reality. They kept showing up, and one again. What Tina said, I think, is so important this war will not be one with quitters. We have to get out of a quitter mindset that we're going to fight while it's easy, while it's convenient. No, we need to get involved. As she pointed out, they're in 48 states. They have 130,000 people across the country, and if we will get involved and not be quitters, if we will keep showing up, we can turn this around, we can make a difference. It's also worth noting that George Washington, that the Patriots, they were not the majority of the nation, it was less than 10%. Historians believe that actually participated in the American Revolution on the Patriots side. The American Revolution was won by less than 10% of the population who didn't quit and who kept showing up.

Rick Green: 25:52
That's what we have to do. I couldn't help but think, as a Texan, about Sam Houston, you know, and the fact that he was running, retreating, running all over the place. But he won that final battle at San Jacinto and Texas got its independence. Same kind of thing. What a really, really cool program today. Folks, Don't forget the rest of that Thomas Paine American crisis part where he said Tierney, like Hill, is not easily conquered. But we have this consolation the harder the conflict, the greater, the more glorious the victory. And don't forget, last week we had Amy on Parents in Action, another, a totally separate program, but doing the same thing with those school boards. I mean, just think about all this. Folks, there's a way for you to get involved. Find the right place for you, the right group for you to get involved in. Maybe it's Moms for Liberty, Maybe it's working with us as a Constitution coach, who knows? Whatever it is for you, but get involved and do something and stay in the fight. Become a winner, soldier. Thanks so much for listening. Today We've been listening to the WallBuilders show.