Rick Green: 0:12
This is the intersection of faith and the culture. It's WallBuilders, where we're taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Thanks so much for joining us today. Be sure to hit the websites www.WallBuilders.com and www.WallBuildersLive.com. You can get the archives. You don't want to miss the earlier programs this week Barry Loudermilk, congressman from George on Monday and then yesterday we had Omer Eshel. We're talking about what's going on in Israel. He's literally on the ground and dealing with the just the total chaos and it was great to have him on, a lot of great perspective yesterday. So if you missed that, be sure and go check that out. I'm Rick Green here with Tim Barton today and Tim just a really good review of what's happened not only on the ground in Israel, but just kind of the geopolitical regional things as well, with Iran, and even we talked a little bit about China and Russia and all that. Today we're going to have Krish Dhanam on Again going to talk about some of those geopolitical issues. He's actually in South Africa but we'll be able to talk to him about his tour there and then going to Dubai and just what he's seeing with some of what's going on with Israel and just kind of talk about the world views. You know what are the world views? The values that give us the freedom and the prosperity and the things that we want to see in a culture, and why does it work well for Israel and for America, and why are these other countries struggling so much? It's going to be interesting today when we get Krish on.

Tim Barton: 1:31
Well, Rick, I also want to tee up one of the reasons we wanted to reach out to Krish you and I were talking about it over the weekend and he is someone who, as you mentioned, with the geopolitical conversation, we want to have a little bit of him with Israel. He is so well traveled, he goes all over the world, he does a lot of missions work and actually he's an incredible communicator. He does a lot of executive level training, a super talented individual, but his heart is evangelism and apologetics in the gospel and so he has a very great perspective to add in a lot of respects. He's traveled again so much, worked with so many different people and cultures and nations. But specifically, Rick, you and I were texting and talking about the Vek RamaswAmy and how I've heard him on multiple occasions talk about how he believes in God given rights. And we know in America our rights come from God, they don't come from government. And it always makes me pause because I go wait a second the Vex of Hindu and Hindu believe and I don't know how many gods, I don't know if they even know how many gods there are. And so if he's saying we have God given rights, which God does he think our rights come from. What does that mean? And as we look at a candidate like Vivek and as good of a communicator as he is and as many things as I really like about him, there are some questions and we thought, okay, who would be somebody good to help give an explanation of this? And of course, Krish is, because he's Indian. He's done a lot of work over in India, again at the corporate level, but also in a lot of missions, related things, trying to help share the gospel with people that maybe don't know Jesus, and we thought this would be a great person to have come on talk about what's happening in the world culture. But certainly even what we should be thinking is we hear a candidate like Vivek say things about God given rights or what his values and views are. How does that line up with a kind of traditional constitutional perspective? What do we look at that? And then, Rick, we've even talked about how not just guys like Vivek, but there are people filling the void in a lot of ways In a lot of the areas of culture of America where it used to be Christians that would stand up and fill that void in that gap. But, for example, there's individuals like Andrew Tate, who recently within the last year converted to Islam. He's a Muslim now, but he's talked a lot about masculinity and, even though he's wrong on a lot of issues, there's a lot of young men that are flocking to him because he is. He's speaking to something that is very core to individuals, especially to young men, as they want to become grown men and they want to embrace what God has put in them, ie real masculinity, and so there is a gap in culture and all these are things that are within Christian's wheelhouse, and we said let's just have Christian, let's have a big conversation and let's just see where it goes. So I'm very excited to hear what Christian is going to say about some of these issues and, you know, maybe we can get it all in one interview. If not, we might have to have a follow up to get some more questions in, because I know he's going to have a lot of good information to share about these topics.

Rick Green: 4:38
Looking forward to it. Christian, I'm going to be our special guest. Yet, Tim, I was first debate, first debate. I watched and Vivek was mad just nailing all these answers on these questions that he said something about something about you know, freedom from God, and I looked at all. I was on the porch with all the kids watching it and I said he means God's instead of just God. So we're not sure what exactly that means so good questions for Chris. Stay with us folks. Krish Dhanam, our special guest, you're listening to WallBuilders.

Tim Barton: 5:12
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American History. Too often today, history education excludes great black heroes from the American founding, such as Lemuel Haynes. Haynes, abandoned as a baby, pioneered churches across upper New England. He became the first black American to pastor a white congregation, to receive an honorary master's degree and to be ordained by a mainstream Christian denomination, the Congregationalists. He was a soldier during the American Revolution and in his churches on George Washington's birthday he regularly preached sermons honoring George Washington. Even late in his life, he expresses willingness to go back to battle if necessary to protect America, which he called a sacred ark. American history is filled with numerous examples of black heroes who are largely ignored by mainstream education today. For more information about pastoral Lemuel Haynes and other colonial patriots, go to wwWallBuilders.com.

Rick Green: 6:10
Welcome back to WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us. Got our great friend Krish Dhanam back with us. Always good to have Chris. He's actually speaking over in South Africa this week and then the Middle East and just all over the world. Chris, thanks for taking some time to join us and thank you for your ministry that impacts so many all over the planet. Appreciate you joining us today.

Krish Dhanam: 6:27
Thanks a lot for having me, Rick. Always a joy to be with you.

Rick Green: 6:30
Well, brother, you and I have been at this for decades together and we both love liberty and we love the principles of liberty and God's word. You have such a good grasp on the different world religions out there and kind of what their differences are and the different outcome that happens in the culture depending on which faith a culture embraces. We wanted to chat with you a little bit about that, both in terms of the American political scene and some of the candidates that are out there, but also as you travel around the world. I love asking you this question, so I'm going to start here and then we'll come back to the politics as you visit all of these nations. I think you've spoken in what? 100 different nations or something crazy like that. What's about 70, 80 out, but pretty good, getting up there 78. Okay, 78 nations. So what do you? If you were going to distill it for an audience and I know normally you'd have a lot more time to explain this and get into it but if you were going to distill it down, what are the inputs that you see in these nations that produce freedom and what we would call life, liberty and pursuit of happiness here, versus the inputs where you see tyranny and you see bad results in those nations.

Krish Dhanam: 7:41
Well, there are two very distinct components that emerge right off the bat. Any place that has been the victim of totalitarianism over a period of time, naturally there's an inbuilt hate towards others who prosper in some way or the other. So when you look at Europe, when you look at that most of the places around the world, you always have to have a victim class in order for a predominant worldview to emerge. America, for the most part, has escaped that till around the post Vietnam era where I do believe her cultural soul came home in a body bag. As long as everybody believed in God, the haves and the have not disparity was not ever at the forefront because there was a commonality of faith. But the moment that faith was jettisoned late sixties, early seventies the commonality then became okay. Let's now try to find the new way to be victimized. In the rest of the world you don't have that issue. It's just because the have them have not so clearly defined. Always have been, always will be. What person will leave, a new person will arrive. The survey had always believed they were to be ruled by somebody. So they don't fight the stupid battles we do.

Rick Green: 8:54
Interesting, interesting. Okay, well, let me ask you this in terms of, since I know you're headed to the Middle East after your trip to South Africa, what about even the approach of an Israel right now? And there are only? I guess people always say our friend of democracy. I always say they're actually a republic, just like we are, but democracy meaning like the general term, they've gotten a very different result in their culture than an Islamic nation that doesn't zero in on free enterprise and the respect for life and that sort of thing. So what I mean, what distinctions have you drawn as you look at that?

Krish Dhanam: 9:33
Yeah, Israel has three very distinct identities to it, and unless you look at it in the totality of all three, you will never understand why that nation works. First is the theological ramification that America may even go away, according to James Thor, with a professor in Rice University. But he says America may go away but Israel will not, because it's God's promise lens. So there's a theological component to why that race has survived wherever they were scattered. Second, there's, of course, the geopolitical debate, where they have always tried to make peace with the people around them, for the fact that I think they do believe they're divinely ordained and they will survive no matter what you give them. So unless you look at it through those two lenses, you're not going to understand the third lens, which is just a land grabbing lens of the other. So I tell people, unless the reason Israel works is A, it's God's promise on its back that it cannot shake, even if it tries. Second, it's got peace in its heart because it's the only nation that has managed to repatriate a tenth of its population from around the world. The country of 10 million has repatriated 1 million Jews who were scattered at different parts in human history, and brought them back to the motherland, and so Israel will always exist, will always have turmoil, but from a Christian perspective. The third view that you and I, the reason we support Israel is not because just it's a friend in that region, but we have a theological need because unless the word travels to the entire Gentile world and the veil lifted over Jerusalem, our Lord will not come again.

Rick Green: 11:07
Man. So let's bring it back here then to the US and how these differing views might affect our basic politics of how we treat our neighbor and what our nation looks like. We've got a Republican candidate for president that I have argued articulates our Christian values better than pretty much any Christian candidate, and yet he's Hindu. Vivek RamaswAmy and Chris. I have a confession to make. I was on television on Flashpoint and we were doing our regular show and we had Vivek on interviewing for a little bit and I talked about how articulate he was on our issues and Rolling Stone magazine said I was gushing. And the next show I told the guys on the team I said there's no way I was gushing. And then I went and watched the interview and I said I was gushing. Okay, I had to apologize for gushing. No, but I have been so impressed. When I'm 38 years old, very successful in business, unapologetic in the debates, he was the first one out of all Republicans to finally stand up and say transgenderism is a mental illness. He hasn't backed away from that, no matter how much they try to slam him. So he's articulated some things that we all believe and done it better than others, but yet you know, I don't know enough about Hinduism to know what the value system is. And so when you look at that, and you look, and let me just throw a lot at you here and then you can hit it all at once and then you look at Andrew Tate, this guy that just converted to Islam eight months, nine months ago, a misogynist a guy that trafficked girls, horrible values, but yet he's articulated masculinity in a way that he's filled the gap where, you know, christianity used to fill that gap but hasn't lately. We've done such a lousy job of articulating godly masculinity that a lot of our young men in the Christian world are flocking to this guy. That is clearly not a good example. So I throw both of those out at you to say you know, what are these guys offering that we should be offering in Christendom? And how different would a Vivek RamaswAmy you know value system end up being if he was in office based on his religion?

Krish Dhanam: 13:11
Yeah. So the two of them have one thing in common They've got more money than God allows and, as a result of that, they're not beholding to anybody and cannot be canceled, which was the reason Trump succeeded in his way, that's the baseline. You have to realize. Both of them have nothing to apologize for. There is a single bill of them and even if the entire world canceled them, there'll just be four billionaires. So the reason they're able to have that stand is because of the foundation. Now, that's a very important attribute. If we all knew what our foundation was and what our non-negotiable was, we would be able to articulate that in the same way they do Now. The truth they offer is obviously erroneous from the truth we believe. If you go on Vivek RamaswAmy's profile and all, it claims that he is a monotheistic Hindu. Now, you and I are monotheistic in the sense that we believe in a Jehovah God and that there is one God. A monotheistic Hindu would also subscribe to what is called a pantheistic worldview, which means they do believe in one of the gods offered, but they don't object to any of the other gods offered. So that's a very interesting thing. So he may have a deity that is very specific to their family amongst the many thousands or hundreds offered within the confines of Hinduism. Hinduism is more that. It's never been a religion. It is a philosophy, it is an all-inclusive and also proposition that basically says that man is one with the universe. The soul can be, you know, it just depends on which sect of Hinduism. There's one sect that believes that you're eternal and that your soul is given and your soul will always be, which is your Atma. The others believe that no, your soul as a living entity is different from your soul as a dead entity, and so in between, you have the works you have to do. So Hinduism has always been a philosophy. It's seductiveness has been because of its open-endedness, to allow anybody any entry point and any exit point, without any ramifications. Now, within the confines of Hinduism, if I talk to my friends that said Christ is the only way, they would accept Christ in a monotheistic worldview, but not reject the only way. They want many ways. If I give them a thousand, they still want a thousand and one. So it's not the number of ways, it's the freedom to have the way.

Rick Green: 15:27
Interesting, okay, okay. So how does that, as you think through that, how would that affect? You know like we can trace. If a person has a biblical worldview, then their policies, if they're in public life, are supposed to. They don't always, obviously, because we have a lot of people that claim that title but then don't vote that way. But if they're following a biblical worldview, you know they're defending life, they're defending marriage, they want, you know, the faith community to be the episode of the community, not the government, yadda, yadda. You go down the list. So how different is that for someone that has a Hindu worldview? Or is it different?

Krish Dhanam: 16:03
No, it is not. The beauty of the Hindu worldview is that Vivek RameshwAmy, as the President of the United States, will not in any way affect Christianity as long as he believes in the American version of Hinduism. If he gets into the more radical versions that is offered in nation states that want that to be the predominant worldview and also the state-ordained religion, then you would get into conflict and persecution like we see in other parts of the world, whether it's Islam in the Middle East or anywhere else. So when you see moderate people who are and also construct, logically saying I believe in my God, but you have a right to believe in your God and I'm going to continue to believe in my God, but I'm not going to prevent you the right to believe in your God, it actually falls bore in line with the original charter of the United States. There it is a separation of church from state, not a separation of church and state.

Rick Green: 16:54
That's so good, that's such a good description of you know, because, again, I don't understand. I'm not a student of this and I need to be. I need to know more. Frankly, we need to teach more to our people and to our children.

Krish Dhanam: 17:05
And maybe we can do that. I can do a class on it. It's not a big deal, I would love that.

Rick Green: 17:10
I would love that and honestly, that would be a great topic for us to cover at Patriot Academy next summer as well, for our audience that isn't aware. Krish comes every year to our leadership congresses and always outranks me in the speaker ratings, and so I dislike him greatly for this. But no, I love this guy, I love you, brother, and this is so good. And I think too, tell me if you have the same read. I don't know, you may even know Vivek. I mean, I've met him a couple of times. He wouldn't know me, but I don't know if you know him, but he strikes me as a guy that has benefited greatly from the American dream and embraces the American dream, and so he seems like a guy that loves free enterprise. At least he articulates these things in a way that you know. Now, granted, he may not be, he may just be really good at parroting you know Ronald Reagan lines and making it salad, but I don't know. He strikes me as a guy that has benefited well that his parents raised him, well, you know, and he's genuine in those beliefs and that love of the American dream. What's your take on what you've seen so far?

Krish Dhanam: 18:15
Absolutely. I mean, vivek is just like me, or just like the next issue that we all have the same pent up, because he was born in Cincinnati and that's as a result of that he was born in America. But he does speak his native tongue he does. He is married to an Indian, he's got an extended family at the joint families important to him. So the morality of Vivek RamaswAmy will never be in question, even if he's president of the United States. I don't think they can attack him for anything that they attack other people with. They will never be able to bring him down if he's true to his identity and stays true to it. You know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. But so far nothing has shaken this guy from the foundational morals that actually truly an Indian would have, and those are three, four One is loyalty to whatever is giving you, giving you your bread right now. Second is deep admiration and gratitude for those that allowed you to get to this point. And third is an ability to give something back.

Rick Green: 19:16
Very, very, very interesting. Okay, if, if Krish Dhanam were president of the United States, let's say, let's say, you know all the polls, everything looks like Trump's going to be the nominee and and, and you know, probably win in November. I still think the census has a chance. We'll see and who knows, vivek might just keep coming on strong. But if it's one of the other guys and you were the president making the decision, what post would you appoint Vivek to? This is like a I need to. I need some jeopardy music somebody played anyway. What would be? What would you see? Because he's a talented guy and I said before I think you ought to be in the, in the administration, in a cabinet position, what? What would you appoint him to? Or would you?

Krish Dhanam: 19:53
I would. I would appoint him, just like when I think George Bush gave the ranking to, at that time, Bobby Jindal economics. You need a businessman of his magnitude, the morality that he hands, the fact that he's built and succeeded. I would. I would put this guy in charge of industry. Explorate whatever it is. He needs to be on the economic post because he knows how to create.

Rick Green: 20:20
Yeah, yeah, it's creating the jobs. That impresses me the most too, man, this has been fun, chris, we got to do this more often. I hope Rolling Stone does not say of you and I that we gushed, but I really, and David and Tim, wanted to have your analysis of just the difference in the worldview and what that would result in in terms of public policy.

Krish Dhanam: 20:45
And the last thing, the difference between. I mean, kamala Harris has an Indian origin, her mom was Indian, father was Jamaican. But the difference again is, again, when you look at it, when you accept the Republican mandate, the mandate is too full. Find us the freedom. Let me create something and let me keep what I created and give you what is your fair view. And the second is the morality one. I was describing this to someone the other day and I just thought when Christ was asked the question, what do I give Caesar? And he says, whose image is on this denarius? And give to Caesar, what is due to Caesar? I always thought of the follow up question that should be asked whose image is on you? And I think you know the Republican side of it has God's image on their heart and there is the bleeding morality that comes from a conscience. The democratic morality seems to come from an abdication of a conscience and recreating morality.

Rick Green: 21:39
So, yeah, that's exactly what we're up against. No doubt about it, Krish Dhanam, I'm always a pleasure brother. God bless you. Thanks for joining me today.

Krish Dhanam: 21:46
My joy. Thanks for having me, Rick, stay with us Folks will be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Tim Barton: 21:57
Hey guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders, called the American story. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that's just not known or not told today. And, we would say, very providentially, in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil and everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not the statement Black Lives Matter, but the organization that says we're against everything that America was built on and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There's so many things attacking America. Well, is America worth defending? Well, what is a true story of America? We actually have written and told that story, starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln. We tell the story of America not as a story of a perfect nation or a perfect people, but the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It's a story you want to check out. WallBuilderscom the American story.

Rick Green: 22:59
We're back on WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us and thanks to Krish Dhanam for joining us back with Tim Barton. Tim, you kind of prophesied this at the beginning of the program. We're going to need another program with Chris. I think it's without question the answer, the final answer of today's interview.

Tim Barton: 23:13
Good stuff, I know I was already messing you and say, hey, he didn't even talk about Andrew Tate yet, and so I really appreciate that he gave some perspective on the fact, saying that essentially we don't have to worry about having a different moral perspective from the individual. We're seeing now that it kind of in the Hindu faith it's not contradictory in a moral sense of what we might think of traditional morals. Now, when it comes to because he explained, hindu is more of a philosophy and that's where I had so many more thoughts and questions about. Okay, really, chris, I'd let him come back on and just talk to us. When you go and share the gospel of these people and they're saying, hey, we think there's many roads and there's many gods and it's your path and it's your journey, but then they believe in traditional values or marriage or family and life, how does that line up and how do you share the gospel? So really, we do need to have some follow-up conversations. But I think one of the things again not a totally clear answer in my mind yet when Vivek says we believe in God giving rights and Krish said, well, that just means maybe there's a specific deity that is unique and special to their family. Well, so for me, on the outside, my thought is okay. So what is the deity for Vivek that his family says, right, this is the God we've chosen and we serve this God. Well, who is that God? Right, like now, I have more questions, but, Rick, maybe even to a little bit of your point in the interview. One of the things that certainly is very true and clear about Vivek as a younger candidate in this race, is he is very clear and bold and been very articulate on issues that have been very controversial and some people didn't even want to go there, and he was the one who was leading the way where he said look, transgenderism, this is a mental disorder. I remember when the I think it was the first presidential debate and one of the hosts said if you become president, would you pardon Donald Trump? And he's the first one raising his hand. In fact, there was a kind of a joking meme, because Ron DeSantis kind of looks around the room, he takes a second and when Vivek raises his hand, ron's kind of like okay, I'll do this. Vivek has been a very clear leader on issues that should not be as controversial as they seem to be to other candidates, and so he is definitely doing some things right, but there's certainly more questions I would want to have answered about him and, as you also pointed out already, Rick, with Trump having such a strong lead, I don't know that this is a real concern at this point of Vivek becoming a leader. And now that philosophy, the Hindu philosophy what does it mean? How does it really impact our lives and what kind of leadership we have? That's a different conversation in question and it's also worth noting, as everybody's listening. We've talked about this before, we've talked about this with President Trump what the Bible talks about. It says righteousness exalts a nation, but righteousness is not solely determined by the individual's life and character. Righteousness for a nation is determined by the policies of those leaders, and so, even if you have a leader that has a different philosophy, if they're promoting godly policies, that nation can still enjoy God's blessings because of those godly policies.

Rick Green: 26:21
Yeah, and we definitely saw that with Trump in that first four years. First, four years. I just throw that out there. We'll see what happens. Alright, folks, we're out of time for today. Thanks for joining us. Thanks to Krish Dhanam for being our special guest, been listening to WallBuilders.