Rick Green: 0:12
Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. You found us here at WallBuilders. I'm Rick Green, here with David Barton and Tim Barton, and we've got a third day of interviewing with Charlie Duke, moonwalker, one of the Apollo Moonwalkers only 12 that did that and just a good friend of David Barton's and WallBuilders and just really cool for us to have a special program like this, a little bit different from what you typically expect from the things we talk about here at WallBuilders, but it's again biblical application. It's being the best that you can be at everything that you do as a God, not under men and Charlie's just a great example of that and even as an astronaut able to give glory to God. So, guys, this is going to be fun. Final day with Charlie Duke.

David Barton: 0:50
And Rick. Even just thinking back on yesterday, there were so many epiphanies for me I know it's kind of common for Charlie because he was there and did it, but I had never, I don't think, realized that a day on the moon lasted for two weeks, that there was no sunset and that the first of the day is like 85 degrees and it gets up to like 235. And you know, so we heard that little clip about being 135 degrees and having a space suit that has a cooler in it like a radiator running through it with all those hoses and all the water, and I just had no clue that it was like that on the moon. So that 230 something pound Charlie in a space suit. That's pretty remarkable. So well, we closed out yesterday with asking about the deniers and his generation and my generation and he had answers for that, and so I know Tim wanted to ask him about deniers with the younger generation, because that is a growing kind of thing happening with the skepticism that's out there. So it'll be be fun to see what happens with that.

Rick Green: 1:50
Let's jump back in. This is Charlie Duke, our special guest here on WallBuilders hey.

Tim Barton: 1:55
Charlie, this is Tim Barton, and I've been listening in the studio as my Dad has been asking questions and playing clips, and I want to address some of what you said, because I've grown up in a generation that is rising Lee and increasingly skeptical of a lot of things, especially if it comes from the government or from big tech or media. You know, frankly, over the last couple of years, so many people feel like they've just been lied to and betrayed by different politicians or leaders, and so, and especially since what seems to be so many conspiracy theories have come, turned out to be true on some level, there's, it seems there's a rising belief in a new generation. That is, they're not getting any kind of evidence or defense that maybe could help them understand the reality of you guys going to the moon, because they'll say things like well, if, if they really landed on the moon, why haven't we been back? Because we now have better technology, right. If it's a financial issue, look at the look at the budget for the federal government. There's so much money and there's just a lot of skepticism towards things going on, and I think what you just said is probably a a great help for them to know where, where can we go? Find evidence has actually happened? You mentioned that there are satellites or images they could see, but but maybe for someone who is maybe willfully ignorant, but maybe they're just, they're skeptical and they don't want to be misled or lied to again, but but maybe they're open to information. How would you help navigate a rising generation that has a maybe a healthy distrust of the federal government, but maybe has questions about the moon landing and maybe why haven't we gone back and technology and all those things? And I don't mean at all to be offensive at asking this, but I know this is an issue for a rising generation.

Charlie Duke: 3:45
Well, uh, one of the. There are a lot of reasons that we you could prove that we went to the moon. We left laser reflectors up there and they're bouncing off signals. And most of the people that say that it's it's not real. They use reasons like the flag is out, blowing in the wind and there's no atmosphere on the moon. Well, the flag isn't blowing, they're right, there's no atmosphere on the moon, so there's no wind, uh and uh. But the flag is held up by a curtain rod and it was back in packed and I couldn't pull the, the wrinkles out of it. And if you look at a picture I took right after we landed and put the flag up and one I took right before we left the same wrinkles and so you can tell that's not really blowing. Well, those are the reasons that people have. And well, they Photoshop. Well, photoshop wasn't even vetted in 1972 when we went. That's technology, that's later. And we haven't been back. Because they decided that we've learned a lot from the moon and now we need to go to Earth, orbit and do science. And so they built the space shuttle. That lasted for 32 years or so, and then they built the space station, which is still going, but NASA's finally looking it back to the moon and this program's called Artemis and they've already flown an unmanned flight back to the moon In a very strange orbit, but they've been back to the moon and the first. They've got the moon crew, the 12 astronauts training right now to return to the moon in Artemis and it should be two or three years away probably and we'll be back to the moon. So, people, if you really look at the data and the rocks and the composition of the rocks and all of these little flimsy reasons that they have, they just need somebody to really explain it to them. And so I've tried my best. But think about it. If we faked it, why did we fake it nine times?

Tim Barton: 6:15
It's such a good point and I think you very graciously have helped bring information to light that for people that want to know, they can find that information. As you've pointed out, there is so much ample information there, but sometimes we don't even know what questions to ask, to know where to look at While builders. Certainly we try to help point people in the right direction to find truth about American history, and this is now one of those areas where people are questioning the truth, and so even the opportunity to talk with you is so helpful, and I'm very excited to hear that maybe in the next couple of years there might be people going back to the moon, which now, charlie, I'm assuming they're probably maybe even having conversations with you that you can maybe give briefs on some level of what you experienced and maybe all that's recorded and they just watch those old interviews. But are you involved at all with any of the current programs? Maybe go back to the moon?

Charlie Duke: 7:08
I was consulting on the lunar car, the new car called the lunar terrain vehicle, but I haven't talked to the astronaut. But I'm going to Houston next month and I have a meeting set up with the astronaut office and we're going to. I think it'll be the first of several meetings, as I share my thoughts about their program and you know they. You know the difficulties that they need to look for and the things they need to train about, and so I'm excited about it and they're excited. I came from the astronaut office, I've talked to him and he's organizing, hopefully, a series of meetings that should start next month.

Rick Green: 7:55
That's terrific.

Charlie Duke: 7:56
You know another big deal. That's not a big deal. I think it's the craziest thing ever. It's the flat earth society. You know the earth flat and I mean, how could anybody believe that? But that's another one of these things that's roaring around in the younger generation that the earth is really flat.

Tim Barton: 8:21
Okay, we need to take a quick break. We'll be right back here on the WallBuilders show. Hey, this is Tim Barton, with WallBuilders and, as you've had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you've probably heard the wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, about all the things that makes America exceptional. And you might be thinking, as incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group, whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school or public school or some political event or activity. If you're interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area. You can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there's a tab for scheduling and if you'll click on that tab, you'll notice there's a list of information from speakers bios to events that are already going on, and there's a section where you can request an event to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and bring a speaker to your area. Welcome back to the WallBuilders show. We are with special guest Charlie Duke. Charlie, thanks for being with us last couple of days. I want to get back in to ask you some questions. I think so much of it is that people they feel they've been lied to on so many areas and, of course, looking at some of the positions people take today where we don't even know the difference between a man and a woman, I understand why some people feel like they've been lied to and I think on some level there is a healthy skepticism. But I also recognize when you remove a biblical foundation, you no longer have the objective reality to point to, and I think that's where so many questions are now entering society that did not used to be there, which actually, charlie, makes me think of another question we have at WallBuilders. We collected stuff from a lot of the NASA program and even some of the Apollo missions. One of the things that has really struck us is how many of the astronauts maybe had some foundation of faith, which maybe that was just America and that generation. Everybody had an awareness of God. But it's interesting so many astronauts became pretty outspoken on some level about faith after having been to the moon or been in space. Did you encounter that at all? Was there a faith dynamic that caused you to grow in your faith, or did you see some of your astronaut friends grow in their faith as a result of having gone to the moon?

Charlie Duke: 11:03
Several. I did Not. Me I didn't have a spiritual experience or a philosophical experience. To me it was an adventure. I was so busy enjoying it and having fun and doing my job. I didn't think about godly things. That came later for me, about six years later when I was born again. But Jim Irwin on Apollo 15, he was committed Christian before he went and when he came back he started Half-Life Foundation, which was an evangelistic organization and kind of were other springs, and he ran it until he died. Buzz Aldrin had communion on the moon and he was an elder in the, I think, presbyterian church. He was a leader a while but now he's stable. And then Apollo 8 crew that read Genesis. They were all quiet about their faith but committed. I expect God honored that reading that all three are still alive. It's the only crew that has the all crew still alive.

David Barton: 12:29
Wow, that's amazing.

Charlie Duke: 12:31
So you know, like the flat earth, you go to scripture and God says in Isaiah that he sits above the circle of the earth and you can't have a flat circle. You look at it and he said in Job he said God made the earth, he suspended it upon nothing and there it is, just hung up in the blackness of space. Every picture you see is a circle, it's a sphere, and those pictures can't be photoshopped. I mean, you just can't believe it, that it's a flat structure and it's a sphere and that's the way God made it. So anyway, I look at Scripture and when God created the heavens and the earth, I believe the creation story, I believe that he hung it upon nothing, that he created it in the whole universe. And the heavens declare the glory of God. The skies proclaim the works of His hands Day after day. The skies pour forth speech and they speak to us. We look at the organization and astrology now calls it the Zodiac, but the Bible calls it the Masaroff. If you've read any of these books about Christ and the stars, the Masaroff starts with Virgo, the virgin, and there's twelve signs in it, just like a Zodiac, and that's the story of Jesus. It's just fantastic, I think, and so we can read Scripture and have confidence that God speaks the truth to us.

Tim Barton: 14:35
We absolutely agree and we know the Bible gives direction. And I do think that so often we see people that have bad information and when you have bad information you draw wrong conclusions and often even in the political world we then get bad political positions and political philosophy and laws etc. But that again is part of why what we do at Walbethers is try to present the truth of the matter as much as we are able. We want to show people truth because we really know what the Bible tells us. The truth sets people free, that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and we want to present truth on every level and every front we can and it's why we're so grateful to be able to talk with you and have this conversation. But, dad, I know you have a lot more you want to get to for this last couple minutes.

David Barton: 15:18
Yeah, charlie, thanks for all the time, brother, and this is really fun. I don't know if everybody else enjoyed it. I'm getting a lot out of this and I've learned a ton and I kind of wrote down, jotted down three questions just to kind of wrap on this thing, and they're kind of impression questions. But you look back over, is there anything that surprised you on the trip, that surprised you the most out of everything that happened on the trip?

Charlie Duke: 15:44
I don't think I had any real surprises except we'd trained so well. So there's no surprises in the spacecraft, except when we had that emergency. But it just was a thorough, a thorough. We have such a thorough understanding of what we were to do and we trained so good. I guess the thing that surprised me looking back was that how well it went. That's great, and so we were so prepared.

David Barton: 16:21
So second question is on a personal level what amazed you the most about everything on that trip? Did anything really amaze you more than anything else?

Charlie Duke: 16:32
I think my emotions amazed me. I never got tired of playing fantastic and colleague looking at this and come on where, John, you know all that stuff. It was just so exciting. Every time you turned around, every time you stopped, there was something that struck, you got your attention, and so it was just the amazement that that amazement just never left.

David Barton: 16:55
And final question is you know, now, more than 50 years later, you look back on that, it's still really clear for you. Is there a single memory that is stronger with you than any other, or is it just the whole impression of everything?

Charlie Duke: 17:10
I'd say the whole impression of everything, probably the memory. If I had to pick one, it would be the landing on the moon. It was so dynamic, it was late landing, we didn't think we were going to get the land. And now here we are and we're 20 feet off the moon and blowing dust everywhere, and then we had contact and engine stop and we were on the moon. So that was probably the most memorable. Now, 50 years later, man.

David Barton: 17:44
Thank you, brother, We've appreciated your friendship across the years and you're just so rock solid, and you and Dottie both, and we just thank you. And, by the way, folks, charles has got a book out called Moonwalker Great book. Get the book. It's a great depth, a lot further than we got into here. But, man, we sure appreciate you, charlie, and I really appreciate here in the fact that you're helping the next generation astronauts as well. That's terrific.

Charlie Duke: 18:09
I'm looking forward to that, and y'all are very special friends, David. So what the wall of business is doing is incalculable. You can't know the influence that you'll have in society.

David Barton: 18:25
Thank you, brother. We appreciate you. We love you. Say hi to Dottie for us. God bless you.

Rick Green: 18:29
God bless y'all Alright, guys. Thank you for a break. You're listening to WallBuilders.

Tim Barton: 18:44
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders, with another moment from American History. After the final victory at Yorktown, the Continental Army awaited the outcome of peace negotiations with the Great Britain. Pastor Israel Evans, a chaplain in the army, proposed to George Washington that they build a structure where church services could be held during the months of waiting. Washington approved the plan and urged his officers to ensure that the soldiers attended service. Pastor Evans further knew if we were to secure the liberties they had fought for, sound education would be crucial, he declared. Every parent and every friend of the freedom of his country ought to be attentive to the improvement of our youth in the principles of freedom and good government, and then the people will stand fast in their liberty for a long time. Our schools today need to return to teaching the principles of freedom and good government in order for America to survive and prosper. For more information about Pastor Israel Evans and other colonial patriots, go to WallBuilders.com.

Rick Green: 19:42
Welcome back to All Voters. Thanks for staying with us. That was the conclusion of our interview with Charlie Duke. Very special time over these last three days. All three programs available at our website today and you can share that with your friends and family. And, by the way, just a totally unrelated side note, we've got problems with the website. We know folks we've been under major, major attack. They've been trying to keep us from being able to get that good information out to you and we're working hard on it. Be praying for us and just you know it's kind of like one of those gremlin things, right, help us, you know. Be praying that God will help us to get this thing worked out quickly and deal with these bots and all these attacks from the left on our website. And just be patient out there, but still share it with your friends and family. We still want to keep people going to the website to get the radio program and getting good information. Alright, guys. So we got to have Charlie for three days. We learned a lot about what it was like 51 years ago to be part of this. So, tim, do you think we changed any minds of those of those deniers out there that might have been listening?

Tim Barton: 20:33
Well, I think he definitely gave great evidence of why it could be. You know, I mean, just thinking back over the three days that the big picture conversation, what we heard, even in my own mind I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. It settled things in my own mind. You know the notion well, that would claim something was Photoshop. Photoshop didn't exist back then, right. And so, anyway, as he begins to unfold some of this stuff well, it's one thing to fake it one time. Why do you fake it so many times? Right, why would you continue to say the same fake story over and over and include more and more people in it? And you start to think this logically and you go oh yeah, it makes sense and you know. Kind of, as you pointed out, it's like you have to be kind of dumb not to appreciate all the information that's there, all the evidence is there. But it's a little bit like we tell people with American history we haven't been presented with the evidence for so long that we don't know how much evidence is there to support the very notion that this was a real deal. There really were people that went to the moon and walked on the moon. That was a real thing that happened. But if you don't know the evidence, we talk about it. Often the easiest way to believe a lie is not know the truth. I mean, you don't know the truth, then you don't realize. Again, they support evidence that's there. So I thought it was very convincing and compelling for lots of reasons and especially again thinking over the context of the last three days, the conversation we've had, and then some of the very direct things that he identified kind of as the reality of why some of that would be a challenge. And even you know, dad, as you guys talked about some of the things that were brought back the rocks, some of the experiments that's been done with them. There's a lot of evidence. People just haven't heard all that information. So hopefully this gave some confidence to some of those people and a reason to maybe celebrate some of this accomplishment 51 years later.

David Barton: 22:21
You know, even from a family standpoint, we had opportunity to know about space program way back in the day. My grandfather, tim's great grandfather, was a rancher and had a ranch in Simple Texas. But he was also a scientist and he worked at the Science Lab in the University of Texas in their nuclear programs and way back on the first Apollo space flight Apollo 11, he invented a gravity meter that they took to the moon on Apollo 11. They left on the moon and it broadcasts back gravity readings. What was the gravity like on the moon for the next seven years until the batteries went out on it. So we were involved in a family way in knowing that there was stuff going on the moon and seeing inventions that were created and part of it. So I don't guess I ever had the point of skepticism because I knew people who were actually doing it. I knew who they were and knew what was out there. But for people who didn't have that insight or hadn't seen it, but I thought, even what Charlie said. Going back to what Tim mentioned, charlie talking about the fact that they left mirrors on the moon, we're still bouncing lasers off the moon today and still getting the information off those lasers. That's a pretty interesting fact as well and kind of knocking down some of that. This is fake Hollywood kind of stuff. But just knowing Charlie, knowing his character, knowing who he is, knowing I mean he's not going to be part of something disingenuous like that and perpetuate a lie for 51 years, and so hopefully that'll come back in. It's a really amazing time in American history where that, as he said, what do you say? They had 80K in the memory of the computers on the lunar module. 80k, are you kidding? That's less than a low resolution picture on a cell phone today, and that's what they were dealing with back then for the whole computer. So it's just, it's amazing to see the human ingenuity that was there back then. And of course, there was a strong faith movement as well. The Apollo prayer league was a really big deal. Apollo 1, as they're getting ready to go to the moon and starting the first missions to prepare for it, the astronauts in Apollo 1, their spacecraft blew up in a fire on a training pad and they were all killed and as a result, a bunch of the NASA employees got together and said, man, this is dangerous stuff, we need to be praying for the astronauts. And so they started the Apollo prayer league which kept really serious prayer going for every Apollo mission. Warner Von Braun, who had defected to America in World War II, took over our space program here. He's the guy who developed the ability to get us to the moon. He became a strong Christian when he was in West Texas. When they brought him from Germany to West Texas he went to a church there, became a Christian. So there's a lot of faith guys there. And for those that don't know, actually on Apollo 14, they built an altar on the moon and left a Bible on the moon. With Apollo 14 and Apollo 11, before Buzz Aldrin, neil Armstrong got out of the lunar module to step on the moon First humans that in recorded history step on the moon. They actually had communion on the lunar module before they got off. So there's a strong spiritual element to what went on in the space program and most folks have no idea about that today.

Tim Barton: 25:36
Well, guys, I think it was awesome that we got to talk to Charlie in the last three days. I can tell you I'm very excited for tomorrow, for Foundations Freedom Thursday, where we can get into some of the stuff happening culturally, have some great questions come in, things that we've been watching the news the last couple of days. I am excited, obviously so grateful for Charlie and he and his wife, the whole family, appreciate them taking time. But I am ready. Let's start talking some of this politics and culture, biblical application, constitutional foundation there's a lot going on right now.

Rick Green: 26:05
Well, and, as we always say, the Bible applies to everything in life, whether it be here on earth or up on the moon. So we got to spend a few days on the moon and it was exciting. But as you said, tim, we'll get back to some of those cultural issues, applying that biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Got some great questions out there, folks. If you want to send one in, email it to us. radio@wallbuilders.com. That's radio@wallbuilders.com. Thanks to Charlie Duke for joining us all three days and thank you for listening. You've been listening to WallBuilders.