Rick Green: 0:12

Welcome to the intersection of faith in the culture. This is the WallBuilders show. We appreciate you joining us. I'm Rick Green, America's constitution coach and a former Texas legislators are here with David and Tim Barton. David, of course, America's premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. And Tim Burton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. You can find out more about all three of us at the website, WallBuildersLive.com. And then also visit our main site WallBuilders.com wealth of information there, you're going to find out about a lot of American heroes at wallbuilders.com, many of which you've never heard of before, many of which I've never heard of before, which has been kind of a fun thing this month, guys all throughout February, learning about new heroes. So while we've got some foundations of freedom Thursday stuff to get to in a little bit, let's start with our hero of the day. Who are we talking about?

Tim Barton: 0:55

Guys, the hero today is Blanche Kelso Bruce. And, as always, these are things that people want to go to the WallBuilders.com website, they can download, they can get their own copy of these. And one of the things that we highlight in his story is that he was the first black man to preside over the US Senate. Now, there obviously is way more to his story. Dad, this is somebody that you've highlighted literally for years, we have a old series called American History in Black and white, where you document some of the very first Republicans, specifically black Republicans elected to Congress elected to the Senate, you go through reconstruction and tell a lot of their story. And so Blanche go, So Bruce is someone that I mean, really, for decades before I was doing much with you here at WallBuilders. This is somebody whose story you were telling, and it's somebody that fortunately now is being rediscovered by some. Why is he significant? What what do you think are the big contributions that people should be aware of from Blanche Kelso Bruce?

David Barton: 1:52

One of the cool things about him is he has a very visible legacy. And here at WallBuilders, we actually own artifacts from them, they're really cool. For example, I can pull up a $1 bill from 1880. And on that dollar bill, appears the name Blanche Kelso Bruce.

Tim Barton: 2:07

Now let me interject, it does not look like$1 bill that I'm used to seeing. And that one's kind of brown one is kind of silver. And the fact there too, will be significant in a moment, as you tell part of the rest of the story. But it was even interesting to me seeing some of the older currency, and how different of a feel that $1 Bill had. But what was significant is there was something else special on that$1 bill.

David Barton: 2:32

Well, that $1 Bill is big enough that I probably would have needed a purse rather than a wallet because it's really large sized currency back then. So it's signed by him as our currency today is signed, and he was the Registrar of the Treasury. He was appointed by President James A Garfield, and he became the first black man to sign currency. But he went further and he was reappointed by another President, William McKinley in 1897. And he signed a second series of currency. So here's a black man that in the 1800s sign two complete series of US currency.

Tim Barton: 3:05

And if we back up in his story, he was a slave in Virginia and moved around several times his master moved around and he went with him and he was in Missouri, gets a level of education in Missouri, as the Civil War breaks out he leaves the pro slavery state of Missouri, goes to Kansas, started a school in Kansas at the end of the Civil War, he moved back to Missouri, he starts the first school for black students in Missouri. He then ends up moving to Mississippi. And this is at a time when the state legislature is choosing their senators to represent the state and he's in Mississippi. He's chosen to be one of the... actually you had two US senators from Mississippi. He's a Republican. He's the first black man to serve a full six years in the US Senate there actually was a black man who had received an appointment, and had served two years. But he was the first man to serve a full six year term.

David Barton: 3:55

So that first one is Hiram Rhodes Revels. He's the first black man to serve in the US Senate. He's a Republican. And so Revels had a partial term, he filled out the last two years of a term because the previous four years, the Senator from Mississippi had left the United States Senate and gone to the Confederacy. Well, now Mississippi is back into the United States. And so he's got two years left on that term, so they appointed Hiram Rhodes Revels, the first black US senator, anywhere in the United States came out of Mississippi. And so he finished those two years, and then you have Blanche Kelso Bruce who was elected as a second black senator, and he has a full six year term.

Tim Barton: 4:33

house in the Senate, and this is where Blanche Kelso Bruce first gets his appointment to be the Registrar at the US Treasury Department and on the story goes, and there's obviously a lot we can highlight and tell more of the details of the story. Very significant details along the way, but the

David Barton: 4:59

And let me get one of those details. In that same point is... time where he was working with Garfield. They were both Republicans there at the 1880 Republican convention. And Blanche Kelso Bruce is actually nominated for vice president for the Republicans in the 1880 race. So there's your first black nominee for vice president back in 1880. Blanche Kelso Bruce...

Tim Barton: 5:20

From a major political party.

David Barton: 5:22

From a major political party. That's right.

Tim Barton: 5:23

Because when you're looking, I mean, major parties back then you had Republicans, you had Democrats, those were the big parties because you did have some third party candidates. You had some kind of independent kind of candidates. But you're talking about the first one from any major party to nominate a black person and Blanche Kelso Bruce was nominated to be the vice president. However, the guy who end up winning the nomination in the Publican party was James A Garfield, but again, I mean, these two guys knew each other, work together. There's so much more to Blanche Kelso Bruce's story. Dad, you've told a lot of the story. Actually, people can go to the WallBuilders website and there's articles connected to Blanche Kelso Bruce, they can go to American History in Black and White. Or you can get one of the bios from the American heroes section. And you can learn more about this. But these are some of the heroes and really significant contributors in American history that we should know more of their story, which is why we take time each day on the radio program to highlight some of the stories of these American heroes. So today's hero is Blanche Kelso Bruce, really significant individual from American history.

Rick Green: 6:28

Definitely one that I did not know anything about him. I've heard David mention him in presentations on black history, but I didn't remember all those details. I had no idea about the... I didn't remember David, you probably said it. And I just didn't remember but I didn't certainly didn't remember the VP thing... you know, potential nomination thing. That's just cool. Good stuff, guys. Alright, listen, we got more of that coming. And we're gonna have one every day for the rest of the month, in February. In fact, this might catch on. I hope you all are doing a lot of homework, David and Tim, because we might have to do this every day of the year after everybody gets excited about all these new heroes of history we're learning about but let's get to some of those questions. We've got our questions coming in from the audience. radio@wallbuilders.com is where you send those in, folks. We're going to start with Tom out of Santa Fe, New Mexico. He said did the Supreme Court of the United States remove the lemon test after ruling that the coach praying on the field after a football game, this is a Coach Kennedy case, is a constitutionally protected freedom of religion exercise. I'm not clear on the decades of SCOTUS rulings influenced by the lemon test and undone by this ruling. Can I as a Christian educator here in New Mexico, post faith based American history quotes and the 10 commandments in my public classroom? Thanks for reporting this, WallBuilders radio team, on your good news Friday program. So guys, I guess we talked about this. Did you guys cover this on good news Friday?

David Barton: 7:45

Yeah, we did.

Rick Green: 7:45

Okay, that's what it was. I should be listening to my co-host better audience that's what was missing. Okay. And and thank you, Mr. Visual for any clarification on court freedom of religious expressions upheld by the Supreme Court. All right, Tom, great question. Sorry for reading that so long, guys. But bottom line is what did the lemon test do and how was that undone? And can Christian educators do this in their classrooms?

David Barton: 8:09

I've got to tell you this question is an Uncle Remus moment for me. And for those that don't know, that's an old kind of folksy tale. Uncle Remus he would tell all these stories about Brer Rabbit and Brer... there was one where Brer Rabbit says Oh, please don't throw...

Tim Barton: 8:22

Now. Wait a second. Are you saying "Brer" Rabbit?

David Barton: 8:25

Brer, B-R-E-R

Tim Barton: 8:27

Brer, like Briar Patch? Don't throw me in the briar patch. Brer rabbit. Okay,

David Barton: 8:32

That's it. And that's where he wanted to be was in the briar patch.

Tim Barton: 8:35

I'm just making sure there's a little Texas Southern accent coming out.

David Barton: 8:40

Wait a minute.

Tim Barton: 8:41

I'm not sure all the audience is going to be tracking along. And then let's uh, let's back up. Because this was where I was first introduced to this individual was a character from the movie Song of the South. That was a Disney movie that was then cancelled, because there was a depiction of slavery in it. And that was offensive. And this kind of modern woke thought not to slavery wasn't offensive. But if you watch the movie, the movie itself was was not a really offensive movie. So Disney removed this because it's woke and most people probably have not seen this. Although it is, it really is an entertaining movie. There is some great value in some of the lessons learned along the way, which is where Uncle Remus was one of the black men in this movie. He tells stories and teaches some great lessons along the way. And this is where you have Brer Rabbit and Brer Bear and was it Brare Fox,

David Barton: 9:34

Bare Fox. Yeah.

Tim Barton: 9:36

All right, all these different characters that were involved. So the point you were gonna make is you feel a little bit like Uncle Remus. Why?

David Barton: 9:43

Because the Rabbit always was saying, Oh, don't throw me in the briar patch. Don't throw me there. And they finally said we're going to punish you and throw you there. Well, that's where he grew up. He knew every aspect of it. He loved that that's where he wanted to be. So he was always saying don't throw me there. So they would throw him there. So that's how he escaped. So this was the lemon test is, I love talking about this question. It's like I that did I send him this question to ask so we can answer this on air. I mean, this is really one I want to... I'm passionate about this. It goes back to the fact that in 1971, the Supreme Court gave the silly lemon tested, here's how you can tell if something's constitutional, don't read the Constitution, read our three prong test here. That's what the Supreme Court struck down with Coach Kennedy case. And so in that the Bremerton case, Coach Kennedy, they said look, that was a silly test should never have been used is off the books we're not going to use anymore. At that point in time 7300 court cases that had been decided, on the limit test are now off the table. They're constitutional again. So currently, right now, all across the nation, there is an aggressive push, encouraging people to start doing these things again. Use nativity scenes, get the 10 commandments back in the classrooms, start having religious activities, do things we used to be able to do before we had a Supreme Court that went rogue on us and said we couldn't.

Tim Barton: 11:02

And to be fair and honest, right? As much as we would love to go back to the era of the founding fathers where you did have gospel ministers coming in and and evangelizing students, this was a priority of the day, we recognize that we're not saying that there are no boundaries. Now, public schools are Christian schools, in the sense of although we're not arguing whether it should or shouldn't be, but we're recognizing that by and large, we're teachers were told that well, if it's religious, you can't use in your classroom. Well, that's not true, especially as the question was asked, What if it's historic content? And the founding father talking about Jesus or the Bible or it mentions Christ, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? Could you have that up in your classroom? The answer is absolutely. And emphatically, yes, you can, and you should. Even the idea of the 10 commandments, the 10 commandments go back up. Well, this is where in addition to the lemon test, this is something that has now the Supreme Court's already ruled on this and, Dad, I don't remember what year it was the Supreme Court ruled upholding the 10 commandments.

David Barton: 12:02

1980 It took them out of classes. And 2005 says, okay, are bad, you can post the 10 commandments visible again.

Tim Barton: 12:09

Yeah, it was. The Stone v. Graham case was 1980. That's when the Supreme Court said you can't display that. But it was a 2005, and actually, was it a Texas case?

David Barton: 12:17

Yes, it was. Perry vs. Van Orden. And it was based on that 10 commandment... and it's not small. It's like six and a half feet tall outside the Texas capitol, Rick, you've seen it? How many times going in the legislature?

Rick Green: 12:27

Oh, yeah. Got pictures with it.

David Barton: 12:30

It's monstrous, you, know, it's huge size. And the court said no, no, it's fine. Well, why would they not say you could have the 10 commandments up when they got over 50 depictions of the 10 commandments in the US Supreme Court. I mean, give me a break.

Tim Barton: 12:42

And this is where going back to the 10 commandments. The US Supreme Court has already ruled its constitutional, it's legal to display the 10 commandments. Now there might be some parameters about how you display it and what additional commentary you get with the 10 commandments when it's displayed. And this is where there are great groups like First Liberty, like Liberty Counsel, Alliance Defending Freedom, Pacific Justice, we can go down the list of the great groups that are out there that will give guidance on this. But the bottom line is you don't have to refrain from doing something that is historic, that is factual just because there's religion in it. That I guess, Supreme Court decision, the lemon case that were they ruled, there's limitation on that, that limitation has been thrown out. It doesn't mean there are no rules anymore. But it does mean you don't have to avoid something just because it's religious or it's pro Christian or pro biblical. If there is historic and constitutional

David Barton: 13:36

Yeah, be tasteful in what you do. Use the Golden perspective in it. Rule, do to others what you would want them to do to you, you're not going to cram it down their throat because you don't want somebody doing that to you, but to display or to show pictures or to instruct on good things like don't steal and don't kill and don't perjure yourself. Absolutely. That's back on the table now. So the 10 commandments are back in. Now, here's the deal. You can put these back up. And there's legislatures right now, as we're talking here, there are legislators working on passing state laws to put the 10 commandments back in the classrooms. They're trying to put the 10 commandments back in every state. But you don't have to have a state law saying you can put the 10 commandments up to have the 10 commandments in your classroom. You don't have to have a state law. The court has said this is okay. Historical stuff. This goes back to even four years ago in the Bladensburg case where the Court said, look, if it's a long standing historical tradition, we're going to consider that as constitutional unless you can prove otherwise. So you can't do just anything you want to again, be tasteful. Just use the golden rule. But you can do this and 10 commandments, yeah, put them up in your classroom, make a copy of the one that was in the 1980 case they had in Kentucky schools. Put that up. That's a historic copy from a court case.

Tim Barton: 14:47

And this is again where I would encourage teachers go to a group like First Liberty go to people to get some guidance because they recognize how the landscape is changing and they can give you guidance to make sure when someone and challenges it. When you have somebody from the district say, Hey, you can't do that. You would love to have the backup of one of these great legal groups to say, Nope, this is totally legal. It's totally constitutional. Here's the case. Here's the rationale. Here's the reasoning. So definitely, we'd encourage you to find some guidance along the way. But if it's a founding father, quote, if it's a historic individual quoting something that is pro Christian, pro religious pro Bible, totally fine. Don't even question that. But like for the 10 commandments, for some of these things, it might be strategic, just to ask somebody a question. And remember, these, these religious liberty groups will represent and give guidance for no money, no charge is totally free. They just want to help preserve and defend religious liberty in this nation. So go check out one of those websites, and they can give you guidance along the way.

David Barton: 15:52

you're gonna have to say, Yes, I can. I've talked to a legal group, and they're willing to defend this. And by the way, that legal group, Tim mentioned, they actually want to see all 7300 of those expressions back up again, because now the courts allow that, which means you got to do some things in your communities, and you'll get challenged and they're going to say, great, we've been waiting for this one, this is what we want to see done. So just expect that yes, yes, you can do this. This is the new standard out there. But when you do be prepared to be challenged and be prepared to have backbone, and call the First Liberties call the Matt Stavers is at Liberty Council. Call Alliance Defending Freedom. This is what they've been waiting for. This is being thrown in the briar patch with brer rabbit, is what it amounts to. They've been begging for this.

Rick Green: 16:44

And those guys are not just willing to do this. They are the best of the best. These are the Legal Eagles. I mean, these are the ones that have been doing this for decades, and they know how to win. Very exciting stuff. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back. We've got more your questions here on this foundations of freedom Thursday. We're back here on WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us on this foundations of freedom Thursday. Next question out of College Station, Texas. So Texas Aggies everywhere are on the edge of their seat waiting to know what the question is from College Station. Here we go. Gerald says that at his daughter's school, they are saying that we're a representative democracy. He says he has a problem with his answer. In our type of government, everyone votes for a small group of people to represent them. And that's the type of government the United States has. Am I wrong to think that what my daughter's school is teaching is not correct. So representative democracy guys versus constitutional republic? What would be the difference?

David Barton: 17:47

Well, I've got a bias here with them. I don't like the term democracy at any point in time, Founding Fathers said, that's really, really, really bad. But when you talk about a representative democracy, that's not a democracy. A democracy is everybody votes on everything all the time, it's run by passions and mob. When you elect a group of people to represent you a smaller group, you can have a representative democracy, and that the people have a voice, but they don't get the final say, as leaders they elect. But it's easier to say a republican form of government, because that's what the Constitution says. That's what the Constitution requires. I'm just biased against the word democracy. I'm tired of hearing save our democracy, we get that for months. But a representative democracy is actually an okay acceptable term.

Tim Barton: 18:32

But we also should be pushing back a little bit on the usage of the word democracy because we've heard literally, Democrat strategist say that they should abandon the words Republican, or Republic and constitution or constitutional, because that gives people too much to cling on to and push back against whatever the modern swing popularity thing is. And they said, well, we should just say democracy that way, if 50% of the people want it... and this is really a move to try to strategically undermine the Electoral College because they can say, wait a second, the majority of people voted for Hillary Clinton, not Donald Trump, they wanted to remove the constitutional structures or the Republic structures of our nation. And so when you have people openly, like on microphone in an interview, saying, This is why we are making this move, it also makes me want to say, well, then we're, we're gonna be very careful how we use that word, recognizing, Dad, as you pointed out in the Constitution, it says, We are a republican form a government, not Republican Party, a republican form of government, we as a nation, this is a republic, the way our government structure runs. And so that's where I also would push back on the usage of the word democracy.

David Barton: 19:43

Yeah. And Tim, that's a great point is pushing back against what the political narrative is trying to be. It's not necessarily whether the question itself is totally accurate and factual to say we're a representative democracy, but the fact that the other side is trying to redefine terms in order or to make us something we're not. That's a really key point. And so just on that alone is probably worth doing some pushback, because you don't want to lose that term Republican because that is the constitutional term. That is a unique form of government. It is very different from democracy. The founding fathers thought democracy was the absolute worst form of government, which, again, is why I've got a bias against that word. But nonetheless, that's a great point from political considerations, Tim,

Rick Green: 20:26

Alright guys, final question of the day and it comes from Jamie. I love this. She said that their family carpools together for about an hour round trip every weekday and we've listened to WallBuilders on the way but we'd like to have suggestions of other podcasts or audiobooks that you three listened to with your families, for the drive home. Our sons are 17 and 12 have been through Constitution Alive, which was awesome. We all really enjoyed Unbroken by Laura Hildebrand. on audiobook, too. We in fact, we had Laura on about that book, man, years ago. Anyway, she goes on to say do any podcasts or audiobooks related to history, creationism, literature or current events come to mind? It's hard to weed through the drivel out there these days, and we're trying to avoid garbage in garbage out. All right, guys, what would you recommend for Jamie and her family to listen to?

Tim Barton: 21:14

You know, one of the challenges is now everybody who has a microphone or a smartphone...

Rick Green: 21:20

Has a podcast!

Tim Barton: 21:21

Is just starting their podcast! So it does become increasingly challenging and difficult. I mean, guys, for me, I know that I listen to some of the major conservative thought leaders, and I don't listen to their podcasts every day. These are things that sometimes I rotate through based on what the conversation is. So whether it's a Charlie Kirk, or whether it is a Ben Shapiro or a Glenn Beck, and you know, sometimes there's there's other individuals, there's individuals that might be on Joe Rogan. And I'm saying this with a huge caveat, because Joe Rogan is not a family friendly podcast, but sometimes when he had some of these doctors that were pushing back against COVID, that there are some people on there, that the conversation is very intriguing, even though it can be a little adult related and as individuals who are wanting sometimes to hear what other people's tastes are different perspectives, different opinions on things that can be helpful. And again, this is as kind of adult conversation this is not something that I have my one and three year old daughter listening to me if I'm listening to a Joe Rogan podcast along the way, but for me, I know that I get so much of news and things throughout the day, that more times than not, I, if I'm gonna listen to a podcast, it will often be more of a church related podcast so maybe a Gateway with a Robert Morris or somebody to that effect. And then I use Audible guys so much we the end of last year, we kind of went through some of a book list and we said Man, we can make an entire program, just highlighting and talking about some of the books that we listened to. And so I spend way more time probably on my audible than I do on podcasts. And it's just again the nature of what we do because we are in the news inundated... We're getting hundreds of emails a day from different kinds of news outlets and websites to keep us updated and informed on what's going on so we filter through so much so I don't know that I really have some great individuals to point to, again there's so many people out there and we do know some some great individuals that are podcast, guys, what do you think you have a favorite or recommendation?

Rick Green: 23:29

My number one go to is is John Cooper. Cooper's stuff and and I you know it's funny, I think families would enjoy it because he's funny, and he's down to Earth. On the other hand he does hit some pretty deep topics and theological discussions and whatnot which sounds weird because he's kind of a you know, he's a rocker basically, Christian rock brand called Skillet. But he's just been so spot on, on the timely issues of the day, and staying really biblical. Like he constantly takes it back to biblical instruction. So I love his it's only once a week, but that's one I would recommend.

David Barton: 24:00

Man I'm going back the 40s 50s and 60s, I'm going Louis L'Amour. It's Western stuff. It's the audiobooks.

Rick Green: 24:08

Do you remember when I set you up on Audible for Louis L'Amour? That was like, I don't know 12 years ago or something?

David Barton: 24:14

Oh, of course, bro. Oh, it's gotta be a while back.

Tim Barton: 24:18

Well, and caveats, Louis L'Amour's an old western these were not always the most godly righteous people and maybe some of their vocabulary. Now it's 40s 50s and 60s. And so you might get the D word, the H word every now and then it certainly is not as aggressive as a lot of modern culture and what things are, however, that is a little bit of that in there. So parents you might have to navigate some of that as we go. But man, those are still some of the greatest stories.

David Barton: 24:43

Oh, the stories and the action and all the adventure.

Tim Barton: 24:46

He was such a good storyteller.

David Barton: 24:49

Yeah, it's great.

Rick Green: 24:50

My daughter Cameron has gotten into Louis L'Amour books, David. I told her you would be very very proud, folks. Thanks for listening today. We appreciate it. You can send in questions to radio@wallbuilders.com for our next foundations of freedom Thursday you've been listening to WallBuilders.